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Sexual Harassment

I make unwanted sexual advances towards myself all the time. Just wanted to get my story out there in case I run for office or something.

you must have zero power over yourself.

side note, told my wife all of my bosses have been female so do the math.
 
What’s the point of becoming rich and powerful if you can’t enjoy it?

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What due process are you referring to?
Anyone else uncomfortable with all the justice being doled out without due process?
It does seem a bit strange. I did read in the Matt Lauer article that this has been going on for a while. He had complaints of this in the past as well. Seems some of the executives knew and did nothing. If that's the case, why are they employees today?
Also one of his accusers claimed she gave in, and felt pressured. She then went home and told her husband. How could a story like that stay buried, unless she gave it up willingly. Yes the dude is a perv, but I would imagine most of these women were willing participants at best.
But then again, this is the popular trend going now
 
What due process are you referring to?

Well i’m not discounting these claims. But having seen first hand what happened to a guy here in wilm i knew well who was ostracized and lost his business and wife and reputation over claims of child sex abuse at a after school program he ran before he had a chance to defend himself in court (and have charges dropped) i cant help but feel uneasy at all these people getting fired and so on without even being charged with a crime yet nevertheless defend themselves. They could very well be guilty. But seems the atmosphere is right for someone to ruin the career of a person they dont like with a false claim. Seems everyone is presumed guilty.
 
Well i’m not discounting these claims. But having seen first hand what happened to a guy here in wilm i knew well who was ostracized and lost his business and wife and reputation over claims of child sex abuse at a after school program he ran before he had a chance to defend himself in court (and have charges dropped) i cant help but feel uneasy at all these people getting fired and so on without even being charged with a crime yet nevertheless defend themselves. They could very well be guilty. But seems the atmosphere is right for someone to ruin the career of a person they dont like with a false claim. Seems everyone is presumed guilty.

It is a little unsettling that people can't question accusations anymore and they're automatically deemed guilty in the court of public opinion of whatever they're accused of.

I'm happy to see real sexual harassment getting called out and consequences being dolled out accordingly. It's really unfortunate that vengeful claims and embellished stories may begin to cloud that process going forward.
 
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I have no doubt many of these claims are true. Had they not been, you would see more of a defense being put up by these guys. Most of them admitted they "did something wrong". To what extent, we may never know. Still, if an accusation is made and the guy admits to some level of wrongdoing, I don't see an issue with him getting fired. If, like with Jeremy Piven, he vehemently denies it and yet still gets canned, then I see that being a real issue, provided he really didn't do anything wrong. Problem is often once you are accused, you are permanently labeled regardless of the eventual outcome.

We all know people falsely accuse others of crimes. Dook lacrosse players, UVa frat boys, etc. There was some actor (from Karate Kid, IIRC) who was also accused of sexually assaulting his kids by his ex and it essentially ruined his career before she was proved to have lied about it. Those alone make me, too, hesitant to jump on someone until they are proven guilty.

With that said, there is no doubt that our sex crazed society has gotten way out of hand. Aside from the obvious "people in positions of power" taking advantage of those not in power (which has gone on as long as people have been in power), there are also those who I am sure would willingly do whatever some pervy mcperv wanted to advance their career. For every actress who rebuffed Harvey's advances, I am sure there were 2-3 others who dropped their panties without a second thought. Then there are those who strip to nothing and present it to the world to see who get bent out of shape when some dude wants to play grab ass with her in a selfie. She can strip down to nothing in a movie and make millions off of it, but sues someone who finds nude pics taken off her camera and sells them to the highest bidder and claims she has been sexually "violated" somehow. I can see where the lines are so blurred that someone can't tell what is right and what is wrong. Not excusing their behavior, just saying I can see where it would be confusing as hell for everyone involved.

I have 2 sons who are college age and one of my biggest fears is they get slapped with something like this. I could easily see them hooking up with someone who "regrets" it the next day and accuses them of something wrong. Or them horsing around like a lot of college kids do and someone getting "offended" and bringing charges against them.

Heck, when I was in college we were all horn dogs. I was on an intramural team called the 69ers. There was a team called Hooterville Express, too. Funny thing is we had girls who bought and wore our shirts because they thought it was hilarious. We all partied together and probably got way too handsy at times. I remember being at several parties and seeing the drunks all over every girl who walked in the door. The ladies slapped their hands (or their faces if it got too bad) and everyone went about having a good time. I am sure some guys took things too far, but I didn't witness it. Still, most of that stuff was just dumb, drunk guys doing what dumb, drunk guys do. Now, I dare say we would all get thrown in jail for some of the stuff we did back in the day.
 
there are also those who I am sure would willingly do whatever some pervy mcperv wanted to advance their career.

This is an important point that shouldn't be discounted in all of the mess that's going on. True sexual harassment against an unwilling party is disgusting and should result in job loss and being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. However, I'm sure that there were some encounters that were the result of a quid pro quo agreement with a superior.
 
While I agree that people should not be tried in court of public opinion, it looks like the Matt Lauer situation was known by NBC execs and they put up with it because Today show was typically the top ranked morning show.

Same thing with some of these other dudes: Charlie Rose, Kevin Spacey, etc. where their employers were aware but didn't do anything until the excrement was about to hit the rotaries. As soon as they got exposed, they sack them. Some of these execs need to get canned as well for sitting on this stuff when they knew it was true.
 
I have no doubt many of these claims are true. Had they not been, you would see more of a defense being put up by these guys. Most of them admitted they "did something wrong". To what extent, we may never know. Still, if an accusation is made and the guy admits to some level of wrongdoing, I don't see an issue with him getting fired. If, like with Jeremy Piven, he vehemently denies it and yet still gets canned, then I see that being a real issue, provided he really didn't do anything wrong. Problem is often once you are accused, you are permanently labeled regardless of the eventual outcome.

We all know people falsely accuse others of crimes. Dook lacrosse players, UVa frat boys, etc. There was some actor (from Karate Kid, IIRC) who was also accused of sexually assaulting his kids by his ex and it essentially ruined his career before she was proved to have lied about it. Those alone make me, too, hesitant to jump on someone until they are proven guilty.

With that said, there is no doubt that our sex crazed society has gotten way out of hand. Aside from the obvious "people in positions of power" taking advantage of those not in power (which has gone on as long as people have been in power), there are also those who I am sure would willingly do whatever some pervy mcperv wanted to advance their career. For every actress who rebuffed Harvey's advances, I am sure there were 2-3 others who dropped their panties without a second thought. Then there are those who strip to nothing and present it to the world to see who get bent out of shape when some dude wants to play grab ass with her in a selfie. She can strip down to nothing in a movie and make millions off of it, but sues someone who finds nude pics taken off her camera and sells them to the highest bidder and claims she has been sexually "violated" somehow. I can see where the lines are so blurred that someone can't tell what is right and what is wrong. Not excusing their behavior, just saying I can see where it would be confusing as hell for everyone involved.

I have 2 sons who are college age and one of my biggest fears is they get slapped with something like this. I could easily see them hooking up with someone who "regrets" it the next day and accuses them of something wrong. Or them horsing around like a lot of college kids do and someone getting "offended" and bringing charges against them.

Heck, when I was in college we were all horn dogs. I was on an intramural team called the 69ers. There was a team called Hooterville Express, too. Funny thing is we had girls who bought and wore our shirts because they thought it was hilarious. We all partied together and probably got way too handsy at times. I remember being at several parties and seeing the drunks all over every girl who walked in the door. The ladies slapped their hands (or their faces if it got too bad) and everyone went about having a good time. I am sure some guys took things too far, but I didn't witness it. Still, most of that stuff was just dumb, drunk guys doing what dumb, drunk guys do. Now, I dare say we would all get thrown in jail for some of the stuff we did back in the day.

Do you really think the difference between willingly sharing pictures with the public and having them stolen by some hacker is that confusing?
 
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While I agree that people should not be tried in court of public opinion, it looks like the Matt Lauer situation was known by NBC execs and they put up with it because Today show was typically the top ranked morning show.

Same thing with some of these other dudes: Charlie Rose, Kevin Spacey, etc. where their employers were aware but didn't do anything until the excrement was about to hit the rotaries. As soon as they got exposed, they sack them. Some of these execs need to get canned as well for sitting on this stuff when they knew it was true.
^^^ this

You'll have to forgive me if I roll my eyes at the sincere and heartfelt apologies issued by someone after he gets outed. If he was so sorry about it, then he should've turned himself in or (crazy thought alert) simply stopped the sexual harassment.

I cannot over-emphasize how easy it is to NOT sexually harass women.
 
Well i’m not discounting these claims. But having seen first hand what happened to a guy here in wilm i knew well who was ostracized and lost his business and wife and reputation over claims of child sex abuse at a after school program he ran before he had a chance to defend himself in court (and have charges dropped) i cant help but feel uneasy at all these people getting fired and so on without even being charged with a crime yet nevertheless defend themselves. They could very well be guilty. But seems the atmosphere is right for someone to ruin the career of a person they dont like with a false claim. Seems everyone is presumed guilty.
Very few of these people will ever be charged with a crime so defending yourself in court is out of the question unless you bring civil charges against them.
 
Anyone else uncomfortable with all the justice being doled out without due process?

Totally uncomfortable. I was talking about this yesterday with two of my women staff. They agreed. Accusations seem to be proven fact these days.

I cannot over-emphasize how easy it is to NOT sexually harass women.

I completely disagree. You know how easy it is for someone to claim they were harassed when it was simply something that was misconstrued? Of course we all know not to pinch a female co-worker on the ass. We also know that we can't say, "Office dodgeball tournament everybody - shirts vs. skins!!" But can we say, "wow,...you look fantastic. That dress is very becoming on you." You want to say that statement is innocent enough but in a world where everyone desires to be a victim, it's probably not and your life could be ruined.

I pay close attention to what I say around my female staff. I've been pretty aware of that for 10 years or so. But I might have made an offensive comment 15 years ago and some lady might just want to ruin me and bring it up. It's gotten out of hand. My wife and I got in an argument last night about all of this. She says, "you just don't know what it's like for a woman in the workplace." I answered, "sure I do, the exact same as it is for a man." Look, we can all be offended by something if we look hard enough for it. And in what kind of world would anyone expect to go through life and not be offended from time to time. When did being offended become such a thing? So you're offended, suck it up, Buttercup.

Let me make clear that I'm not saying woman who have been assaulted or raped should not come forward. They definitely should and the people responsible should be held accountable. But what we've done is create a culture that fosters victimhood. And everyone is buying in. Everyone wants a piece of the victimhood pie. It's almost like you're not as important of a person these days unless you've been done wrong by somebody.
 
Do you really think the difference between willingly sharing pictures with the public and having them stolen by some hacker is that confusing?

Yes, to some people it is. Celebrities willingly put themselves out there in their birthday suit in movies (and sometimes in selfies), then get upset when someone (who stole it, which IS against the law and I agree is definitely wrong) puts the same thing out there. To the person who did it, it may not seem like it is a big deal because the celebrity has already done the same thing already, and in some cases they have put out much worse. The act of stealing isn't confusing to them, the content of what is put out is.

I am not saying it is right, just that the signals being sent out are confusing to some people.

Perhaps stealing from someone's camera isn't the best example of highlighting the confusion part of what I am saying. Maybe a better example would be of the paparazzi taking a nude shot of a celeb sunbathing on a boat somewhere and the celebrity getting upset because people saw them nude in that photo when they, themselves, have been nude in movies and sometimes in their own pictures.
 
And, it seems like every day, some married hottie teacher is caught diddling some high school boy and getting charged with RAPE. I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time buying that. As a former 17-year-old (16, or even 15), I would have been looking back fondly on an encounter with some of these women. I'm not sure how a 16/17 year old boy is being raped by these attractive women. There may be an element of sexual predator in the situation, but there's always a "hunter and hunted" element in a sexual encounter, on some level. But, to rape someone- from my perspective- means that you are the "intruder" and I can't understand how a woman can ever rape a man... except the example in The World According to Garp, which wasn't totally non-consensual either!
 
And, it seems like every day, some married hottie teacher is caught diddling some high school boy and getting charged with RAPE. I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time buying that. As a former 17-year-old (16, or even 15), I would have been looking back fondly on an encounter with some of these women. I'm not sure how a 16/17 year old boy is being raped by these attractive women. There may be an element of sexual predator in the situation, but there's always a "hunter and hunted" element in a sexual encounter, on some level. But, to rape someone- from my perspective- means that you are the "intruder" and I can't understand how a woman can ever rape a man... except the example in The World According to Garp, which wasn't totally non-consensual either!


Agree. What 17 year old boy wouldn't want to nail his teacher? I tried very hard to succumb to the advances of a substitute (@TarHeelNation11 loves it when I tell that story). I mean, I put in effort to be "taken advantage of". And while these teachers are probably twisted on some level, why should they have their lives ruined because they're having consensual sex with a horny 17 year old boy that wants it every bit as much as the 30 year old teacher, if not more?
 
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And, it seems like every day, some married hottie teacher is caught diddling some high school boy and getting charged with RAPE. I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time buying that. As a former 17-year-old (16, or even 15), I would have been looking back fondly on an encounter with some of these women. I'm not sure how a 16/17 year old boy is being raped by these attractive women. There may be an element of sexual predator in the situation, but there's always a "hunter and hunted" element in a sexual encounter, on some level. But, to rape someone- from my perspective- means that you are the "intruder" and I can't understand how a woman can ever rape a man... except the example in The World According to Garp, which wasn't totally non-consensual either!
Slippery slope. Why is this any different than a horny 17 yo female?
 
Agree. What 17 year old boy wouldn't want to nail his teacher? I tried very hard to succumb to the advances of a substitute (@TarHeelNation11 loves it when I tell that story). I mean, I put in effort to be "taken advantage of". And while these teachers are probably twisted on some level, why should they have their lives ruined because they're having consensual sex with a horny 17 year old boy that wants it every bit as much as the 30 year old teacher, if not more?
I owe my entire sexual prowess to a woman in Cary. I was almost 19 at Chapel Hill, working part-time at Food Lion. This woman was 41 and came in the store frequently and it finally went into full-blown FWB mode (she wasn't married, however). Now, that was a HUGE age difference, and we kept it totally on the down-low. But, she was like a Sherpa for me. So, I cannot imagine that I was any more "mature" than a 17-year-old HS junior or senior. It was consensual and it was fvcking awesome (pun intended). There's no way I would have traded that for anything. Now, the big difference was that she was not married. I wasn't raised to indulge in infidelity, and I never have, even as a side piece.
 
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And, it seems like every day, some married hottie teacher is caught diddling some high school boy and getting charged with RAPE. I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time buying that. As a former 17-year-old (16, or even 15), I would have been looking back fondly on an encounter with some of these women. I'm not sure how a 16/17 year old boy is being raped by these attractive women. There may be an element of sexual predator in the situation, but there's always a "hunter and hunted" element in a sexual encounter, on some level. But, to rape someone- from my perspective- means that you are the "intruder" and I can't understand how a woman can ever rape a man... except the example in The World According to Garp, which wasn't totally non-consensual either!

Well in a lot of those cases, it's statutory rape that they're getting charged with - which is strictly due to the age, even if the kid is 100% down with it.

It's also possible that a lot of the kids, like some of the adults who have been coming out with accusations, want to be a victim and thus downplay their consent in what happened.

I don't agree with the notion that a women can't sexually harass/rape a man though. In fact, I'm just waiting for the ball to start rolling on that one - with guys coming out and saying they were taken advantage of by female bosses. Might start to be all the rage once this wave dies down.
 
Slippery slope. Why is this any different than a horny 17 yo female?
Why? I dunno, why is it? I'm not the King of Social Standards. I'm closer to the court jester. I'll say this; A man can RAPE another woman OR man! Raping is a criminal taking by force, against the consent, and penetrating the victim. I cannot fathom how a male can be forced to get an erection and maintain it while the woman forces herself on him without his consent. Maybe I've just been sheltered and lucky, but I cannot imagine how that is possible.

I'll be direct, a 17-year-old female is certainly at the age of sexual consent, to me. I'd even venture to say that 15 or 16 is an age of sexual consent. You guys remember Chick Bleeds? Her mother was almost 15 when she was born! Her mother was born in 1950! I have a cousin who had a baby and put it up for adoption at age 14. She's 56 now. It wasn't long ago that a 16 year old was married and with child in our society. I'm not trying to get back to that standard. But, the standard is always changing. The conditions and circumstances are always changing. And, even more importantly, the circumstances of each situation is unique.
 
Why? I dunno, why is it? I'm not the King of Social Standards. I'm closer to the court jester. I'll say this; A man can RAPE another woman OR man! Raping is a criminal taking by force, against the consent, and penetrating the victim. I cannot fathom how a male can be forced to get an erection and maintain it while the woman forces herself on him without his consent. Maybe I've just been sheltered and lucky, but I cannot imagine how that is possible.

I'll be direct, a 17-year-old female is certainly at the age of sexual consent, to me. I'd even venture to say that 15 or 16 is an age of sexual consent. You guys remember Chick Bleeds? Her mother was almost 15 when she was born! Her mother was born in 1950! I have a cousin who had a baby and put it up for adoption at age 14. She's 56 now. It wasn't long ago that a 16 year old was married and with child in our society. I'm not trying to get back to that standard. But, the standard is always changing. The conditions and circumstances are always changing. And, even more importantly, the circumstances of each situation is unique.
You have gone off the reservation. My point is if, and most of us agree, a male can nail his teacher, we all would have done it. Why is that so different than a female trying to nail her teacher? I realize laws prohibit both, but should we feel any different about a "hot" female trying to nail her male teacher?
 
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You have gone off the reservation. My point is if, and most of us agree, a male can nail his teacher, we all would have done it. Why is that so different than a female trying to nail her teacher? I realize laws prohibit both, but should we feel any different about a "hot" female trying to nail her male teacher?
I dunno, should "we" feel different? I have another close friend who married one of his students. They met when he was a professor at a college in Ohio and she was a freshman. They married about 5 years later. Now, he never had sex with her until their wedding night (he's old school religious now, and when they were "courting").

Each situation is unique. If you are looking for me to set a standard, I'm fresh-out of those.
 
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