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Your objective view of the ACC?

Tigertown_a_Rick

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Jul 29, 2001
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With only a handful of games left to be played, I found it interesting after the Miami/Louisville game yesterday that Coach Rick Pitino mentioned the current ACC in the same breathe as the Old Big East....To paraphrase his comments, he said he thought of the ACC much differently before this year, and now sees the ACC much like the old Big East used to be with tough games night in and night out....Those postgame comments really did surprise me!

There's been countless threads debating the game today as opposed to what it was in the past, and most of us oldtimers see today's game much differently than today's younger generation, and we get frustrated at times with the lack of fundamentals that we see game-to-game, but I must admit that I'm starting to warm up to this new ACC that we have now....Of course, it will NEVER compare to the days when only a conference tournament champion got an NCAA invite at the end of the season because there was more on the line for teams back then....Today of course, there are as many as 7, 8 or more teams that have been invited to the big dance at one time or another, so the pressure to make it is certainly NOT what it was way back when....

With all that out of the way, I personally like the way that the ACC is currently trending:

1). Recruiting seems to be vastly improving for a lot of the mid-level to lower-level ACC teams, and that trend is likely to continue...FSU already has the number 3 class coming in for next year...

2).Coaching has been seriously upgraded in a short period of time with the additions of Louisville,Notre Dame,Syracuse and Pittsburgh....Not to mention, both Wake and Va Tech had big upgrades that has already impacted their recruiting class next season in a positive way with the hiring of Manning and Buzz Williams with the jury still out on BC's Christenson who seems to be doing an admirable job for the team that he inherited?....

3).The ACC has 5 teams that are currently ranked among the top 15 in the Country, and that has been the case for most of the season....A fact that is rarely mentioned or talked about, is the FACT that conference teams that are not among these top 15 or 20 teams often get much better as the season progresses, or that seems to be the case this year?....And it's probably because of the ACC competition that they are playing against on a night to night basis.....The old saying used to be was"You don't get any better by playing the Mary's school for the blind or any other schools like that", and I think that's what we are beginning to see in this whole new ACC....Schools are not going to be content about losing for very long, so expect Georgia Tech to make a change at the end of the season....ACC teams are now playing conference opponents more than they ever have....Granted, there are only 4 of those opponents that you play a home-and-home schedule with, but an 18 game ACC schedule is grueling and brutal compared to the past....

4). The ACC core schools of Duke,Carolina,Wake,State and UVA are all playing better as a collective group than they have in several years, and that trend will likely become part of the norm in the future, which bodes well for an ACC that also includes heavyweights Syracuse and Louisville and capables Notre Dame and Pitt.....Looking at the other ACC schools, Clemson, Miami and FSU have all improved the last several years with both the Canes and Noles recently claiming ACC tournament and regular season titles, while Clemson has won more ACC games under Brownell than they have in several years....BC and Ga. Tech are both capable of beating a team that is not focused, but both will have to improve, or will be beat down by the competition....

For me personally, I watch ACC basketball at every opportunity that I can, and I'll watch more mid-major conference matchups than I do the SEC,B1G,B12 or PAC12....Those other 4 conferences just don't interest me that much....The SEC is Kentucky and the 13 misfits....The B1G is Wisconsin and the 13 pretenders.....The B12 is Kansas and the 9 wannabees and the PAC12 is Arizona and a Utah team that nobody east of the mississippi, knows anything about...lol...The rest of the PAC12 is....well...pathetic!....I will watch this coming saturday's matchup between Northern Iowa and Witchita State because I like the way they play the game....Ditto for VCU,Dayton,Davidson,Rhode Island and a few others from the A-10.....I generally don't watch Kentucky because it's like watching an All-Star game....And hate to admit, but the only way Kentucky doesn't win the title this year is if Kentucky themselves blows it....Otherwise, I don't see any team beating the Wildcats when the tournament begins IMO because they seem to play better against better competition....

Opinions as always are welcomed!
 
Any discussion about ACC basketball future is bound to bring up ACC basketball past. And that is at best hot air if you fail to make this acknowledgment front and center and nearly 100% of your conclusions: football is at least 4 times more valuable than basketball, which means that the only way the ACC would remain a Major/Power conference was to expand for football reasons.

So whining about what adding Miami and VT did to harm the perception of ACC basketball is as stupid as the son of a divorced former socialite whining about his new step-daddy being a WalMart billionaire. It is step-daddy's money that allows the boy to remain in the Big Time.

ACC basketball can become the equivalent of SEC football: simply the best almost every year.

Can become - operative words. If ADs make stupid hires (like Sidney Lowe, Dave Leitao, Jeff Bzzzzz), they can seriously harm the league. Enough lousy hires could make ACC basketball as lousy as SEC basketball.

And within a few years, HOF coaches must be replaced at each of the most important basketball programs in the ACC: UNC, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse.
 
As an old timer I liked the old ACC better but I can see advantages of the new with meaningful games on every few days. The future would look better if the lower standing teams would improve. Too many teams at the bottom hurt the overall conference. Improve those teams and the new conference may be better. I still definitely do not like an unbalanced schedule. Somehow that needs to be solved to be fair to all teams.
 
Originally posted by Tigertown@Rick:
For me personally, I watch ACC basketball at every opportunity that I can, and I'll watch more mid-major conference matchups than I do the SEC,B1G,B12 or PAC12....Those other 4 conferences just don't interest me that much....The SEC is Kentucky and the 13 misfits....The B1G is Wisconsin and the 13 pretenders.....The B12 is Kansas and the 9 wannabees and the PAC12 is Arizona and a Utah team that nobody east of the mississippi, knows anything about...lol...The rest of the PAC12 is....well...pathetic
So, you don't really watch the other power conferences, yet have no problem passing judgement on their relative strength. I can understand why you might pay far closer attention to the ACC over all other conferences, but then to write the others off as "School X" and a bunch of wannabes is clearly an opinion based more in ignorance than informed opinion.
 
Originally posted by AtlasShrugged:
Still taking a while to get used to.
find myself rooting against Piit / Syracuse / ND when matched up with traditional acc schools
not sure why but UofL fits
 
Not aguring but nit picking one point Rick. Watch some Big XII basketball. Kansas is Kansas, Iowa State and Texas are tough matchup. You want to want a good game though, watch West Virginia. They don't shoot particularly well and statistically they're not one of the most efficient offensive teams but their Kamakazi full court press with random trapping that they play for 40 minutes every night is a beauty to watch!
 
Originally posted by dlew71:

Originally posted by AtlasShrugged:
Still taking a while to get used to.
find myself rooting against Piit / Syracuse / ND when matched up with traditional acc schools
not sure why but UofL fits
Moo?

The Wuffies have become so insane over thepast decade or so that I would much prefer that they get totally stupid and leave the ACC. The most obnoxious and delusional northeastern fan base - UCOnn - I would take over Wuffies.
 
Originally posted by UNC-75:
As an old timer I liked the old ACC better but I can see advantages of the new with meaningful games on every few days. The future would look better if the lower standing teams would improve. Too many teams at the bottom hurt the overall conference. Improve those teams and the new conference may be better. I still definitely do not like an unbalanced schedule. Somehow that needs to be solved to be fair to all teams.
The only way to have truky balanced schedules in basketball is to have Home-Away round robins for all. That became imposisble when conferences became larger than 10.

VT hiring Buzz Williams is an example of what a school with little basketball history should do. Miami hiring Larranaga is another.

Is there another conference with a pair of 'non-basketball' schools having hired such coaches? Miami hired a coach who took a team to the Final Four. In basketball terms, Buzz took a huge step down to coach in the ACC.

Our bottom is in much better shape than the bottoms of the SEC and Pac and in better shape than the bottoms of the Big 12 and Big Ten.
 
Originally posted by JayhawkinGeorgia:

Originally posted by Tigertown@Rick:
For me personally, I watch ACC basketball at every opportunity that I can, and I'll watch more mid-major conference matchups than I do the SEC,B1G,B12 or PAC12....Those other 4 conferences just don't interest me that much....The SEC is Kentucky and the 13 misfits....The B1G is Wisconsin and the 13 pretenders.....The B12 is Kansas and the 9 wannabees and the PAC12 is Arizona and a Utah team that nobody east of the mississippi, knows anything about...lol...The rest of the PAC12 is....well...pathetic
So, you don't really watch the other power conferences, yet have no problem passing judgement on their relative strength. I can understand why you might pay far closer attention to the ACC over all other conferences, but then to write the others off as "School X" and a bunch of wannabes is clearly an opinion based more in ignorance than informed opinion.
Maybe I should clarify that I do watch some of the other conference games, but seldom watch the WHOLE game as I do the ACC teams....As far as being "informed" about the other conferences, I do read quite a bit about other teams on CBSSports.com and of course ESPN has all the highlights of the games... I often listen to local and national sports' talk radio as well, so I'm not as misinformed as a lot of people are....I know the B12 has some quality teams like Kansas and Iowa State, but I also think the conference as a whole is overrated IMO, and I could care less about anything in regards to West Virginia or Texas....Kansas has won the conference or shared it for about the last 8 or 10+yrs, so it's hard for me to believe that there are any top-level teams in the B1G when the Jayhawks generally come out on top every season in the B12, and that's an " informed opinion" based on the numbers and NOT an opinion, based on "ignorance"?....I don't pay much attention to the PAC-12 because most of those games are late night matchups that I'm not interested in staying up to watch....I did watch some of the Utah/Oregon game on sunday afternoon, but lost interest, and chose instead to watch the Temple/Tulsa game, while channel surfing the end of the Utah/Oregon game...I'll watch Michigan State play from time to time in the B1G becasue I like Izzo, and I may watch Wisconsin every now and then, but I mostly find the B1G boring, and seldom watch a whole game, but I do follow the B1G as I do all the major conferences, but they just don't interest me as much as this new ACC, and I don't, and won't watch any games involving the Maryland Turtles....Guess I haven't got over the Terps leaving the ACC for the "Rust-Belt" conference...Just don't care if I ever watch another Maryland game, but that's just my two cents on the Terps....And I only channel surf the SEC, which IMO is even more boring to watch than any other basketball conference....That may change in the future, but right now the SEC is just Kentucky and everybody else, and I can only watch so much before I have to change the channel...lol!

Bare in mind, I'm a Tarheel fan and a fan of the ACC and not a fan of any other conference!

Like a lot of other oldtimers, I remember and miss the old ACC when teams played each other twice during the season, but that ACC is never coming back, and this is what we have now....It took me a while to warm up to this whole new concept of ACC basketball, but this season has peaked my interest to the point that I can't wait for the next ACC game....Maybe, it's just me, but it seems like the games between ACC foes is a battle every night nowadays, and I don't think that has been necessarily the case in a lot of seasons since those days when every ACC opponent faced each other twice during the regular season....Could be wrong, but there seems to be more overtime games and buzzer-beaters this year in the ACC, than there has been in many a season, but a statistic guru would have to verify that FACT?

As mentioned above, Hall of Fame coaches will be leaving Duke,Carolina,Louisville and Syracuse in the not too distant future, but all these programs have a basketball pedigree that a lot of other teams can't match, until they too have cut down the nets in a championship game....For that reason, I believe that all 4 of these schools will find very capable replacements when that time comes.....Until then, lets all enjoy these great Coaches and these teams until that day comes to fruition?

Again, appreciate the comments, input and opposing views!
 
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Don't worry about it Rick, KU fans get their feelings hurt real easy. So easy they shut down their free board.
 
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Originally posted by dlew71:

Originally posted by AtlasShrugged:
Still taking a while to get used to.
find myself rooting against Piit / Syracuse / ND when matched up with traditional acc schools
not sure why but UofL fits

Could it be that the three are yankee schools, and the other has a more Southern culture?

This post was edited on 2/23 5:20 PM by donapache
 
I think one of the wannabes ended your season last year...we were lucky to get past them. The ACC is top-heavy. The B1G is just flat out weak. The top of the ACC can hold up against the other P5, but it's no gauntlet like Pitino would have others believe. He's gotta sell a fading team late in the year...
 
Nothing wrong when it comes to be a top heavy conference and the NCAAT.

ACC may very well get 4 in Elite 8 with UVA, Notre Dame, Duke and UNC.

I actually picked 5 in a contest on another board but looks like Chris Jones no longer on Lville knocks that out of realm of possibility. If Cuse had not self imposed penalties, could add another elite team possibility.

I think UK and Wisc are legit but not Zaga. then picked Nova instead of Zona or Kansas for 3rd non-ACC in Elite 8, I literally am from Missouri and teams like Utah, No. Iowa and Wichita State this year will have to show me

B12 has a lot of teams that may make Sweet 16 but not elite 8.
 
Nothing like conference homerism...wow, 5 in the Elite 8. You need to watch more basketball. I'll concede as a Huskie, I'm on the outside looking in this year, but I can admit there are good teams across the board in other conferences.

...and Notre Dame will fold early...
 
Originally posted by Divide14:
Nothing like conference homerism...wow, 5 in the Elite 8. You need to watch more basketball. I'll concede as a Huskie, I'm on the outside looking in this year, but I can admit there are good teams across the board in other conferences.

...and Notre Dame will fold early...
Yeah, I guess you could call a lot of us conference homers......How do you like your conference?

As for the tournament, it's all about matchups....In theory, it would be tough to get 5 teams into the Great-8, but it's not as impossible as some might think!
 
Originally posted by mikeirbyusa:
OH, and add VT right along with the dukies and moou!
I think Buzz Williams is going to build a tough team in Blacksburg. We soon could see seasons in which both UVA and VT are Top 5 in the ACC.

If that sounds impossible, think about how impossible this UVA team would have sounded when Bennett was hired, and then think about UNC, Louisville, Syracuse, and that team in Durham with aging coaches.

ACC basketball supremacy could be up for grabs before long.
 
Originally posted by WoadBlue:

Originally posted by mikeirbyusa:
OH, and add VT right along with the dukies and moou!
I think Buzz Williams is going to build a tough team in Blacksburg. We soon could see seasons in which both UVA and VT are Top 5 in the ACC.

If that sounds impossible, think about how impossible this UVA team would have sounded when Bennett was hired, and then think about UNC, Louisville, Syracuse, and that team in Durham with aging coaches.

ACC basketball supremacy could be up for grabs before long.
I think there is another team that is going to be tough moving forward, and that is Wake Forest....Already got a couple 4 star players coming in next year, and Manning has already run off several kids that didn't want to meet his demands, so the kids left on the team are buying-in, and that bodes well for the Decs, next year?....If Manning stays around for a few years, and recruits his kind of players?.... Wake will likely return to the top half of the ACC Standings IMO because he is a native, and can appeal to some of the top players in this state because he does have a championship ring....In addition, FSU has a top 5 class coming in to join freshman scorer Rattan-Mayes, so they'll likely be pretty tough next year too as will Miami if the backcourt of Rodriquez and McCleland hang around for another season?

I agree that both Williams and Bennett will have the Wahoos and Hokies in the top 25 in the future...But top 5?.....I don't know about that because I don't remember Marquette being a perrennial top 5 team when Williams was there....However, the Warriors were a team that generally played a physical brand of basketball, and finished in the top 25 when he was there with a couple good runs in the tourney to go with it....I think that we are already beginning to see what he can do with a team that is young and inexperienced at just about every position, making them competitive in spite of their lack of size or atheleticism...Watch out once he starts recruiting his kind of players?....I'm sure after all the close misses with Seth Greenberg, that the Hokie fans will just be glad to make the tourney, and would be estatic to be a top 25 team every season?....As for the Wahoos, they've had 2 great seasons back-to-back, but can that be maintained?....I guess it depends on whether the NCAA reduces the shot clock or not, and what impact that will have on teams like Virginia?....UVA likes to use up that shot clock, and make you do the same, so it would be interesting to see what happens when both they and their opponents have to speed things up, due to less time per possession?

I agree that the 4 Hall of Fame Coaches aren't going to be here too many more years, and I agree that there is going to be a serious transition when any of those 4 Coaches leave, but I still believe that the Pedigree at all 4 schools will give Louisville,Syracuse,Duke and Carolina a better than average opportunity to hire very capable replacements to remain competitive for a top half finish in the ACC.....

I generally don't care to give the Wolfpack any credit, but have to admit that Godfrey seems to be able to fill the vacancies when he has talented kids leave.....Both Abu and Freeman are going to be a load next year, and Barber seems to be getting better and better...There is a lot of talent in this state, and the Wolfpack have made the tournament in every season that Godfrey has been there, so I wouldn't count on a big drop from State....Even though, that's what all of us Tarheel fans would like to see..lol!

The one offseason hire that I will be watching is Georgia Tech....The Yellowjackets have litterally went down hill since that NCAA Championship game appearance when Paul Hewitt was coaching.....The right coach could turn things around in the "ATL" with plenty of talent nearby in Marietta, Norcross and Decatur.....Basketball is the one sport that Georgia Tech can compete with Georgia for the top talent in the state if a talented kid has his grades in order?

I would like to know the record for the number of ACC Regular Season overtime games, and where this season ranks?

Not to mention, the ACC games decided by 5pts or less?

Every game seemingly goes right down to the wire with a few exceptions here and there?

It's not the Old ACC, mind you....But it is an improved, and more competitive ACC this year, than it has been over the last few seasons, and the future looks to be even brighter, moving forward!
 
Originally posted by Divide14:
Nothing like conference homerism...wow, 5 in the Elite 8. You need to watch more basketball. I'll concede as a Huskie, I'm on the outside looking in this year, but I can admit there are good teams across the board in other conferences.

...and Notre Dame will fold early...
The ACC IS BY FAR THE STRONGEST CONFERENCE IN THE COUNTRY!
 
Originally posted by Divide14:
I think one of the wannabes ended your season last year...we were lucky to get past them. The ACC is top-heavy. The B1G is just flat out weak. The top of the ACC can hold up against the other P5, but it's no gauntlet like Pitino would have others believe. He's gotta sell a fading team late in the year...

Look in the mirror to see which team is fading the most, and the fastest...HINT...ACC vs. AAC...It's not Louisville...LOL!!!

smokin.r191677.gif
 
We'll see in a couple of weeks. I honestly think the Big XII is the strongest this year. But the madness will ensue...
 
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