ADVERTISEMENT

45 . . . You Know, Mr. Patriot . . Doesn't Know the Words to 'God Bless America'

strummingram said:
Abraham Lincoln was probably seen as one of the worst presidents during his term.
Click to expand...
That's true of most presidents though. And considering he was at war with half the country, it's not surprising that people he was at war with would hate him.

strummingram said:
His assassination made him immortalized. Any of this shortcomings were wiped away.
Click to expand...
I don't think it immortalized him, getting rid of slavery is what did that. And I don't think his shortcomings were wiped away either. Despite what is happening in the world today, I still believe that people want to see the best in people and that's why mistakes get minimized when people have done great things.
 
tarheel0910 said:
That's true of most presidents though. And considering he was at war with half the country, it's not surprising that people he was at war with would hate him.
Click to expand...
It wasn't just the South that hated Lincoln during his presidency. Not even close.
 
strummingram said:
The FACTS? The predictions? Those are facts now? Good to know.
Click to expand...

The same head-shed that predicted the casualties the Allies would endure on D-Day calculated the numbers for the invasion of Japan. The D-Day numbers were within 10% of the actual totals, IIRC.

They predicted we would take over a million casualties during the invasion and occupation of Japan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heels Noir
strummingram said:
I still do not agree with dropping nuclear bombs, personally. Speculating about "saving lives" by knowing you killed hundreds of thousands seems pretty lame to me.
Click to expand...

What other options were there that would have cost less lives?

I realize you're perpetually under the impression that talking things out is a cure all - but all that approach would have gotten for Truman is just a big ol' GFY from Japan
 
  • Like
Reactions: heelbent
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
What other options were there that would have cost less lives?

I realize you're perpetually under the impression that talking things out is a cure all - but all that approach would have gotten for Truman is just a big ol' GFY from Japan
Click to expand...
You're right. Best to just kill as many as possible and chalk-it-up to "it saved lives." You made a believer out of me.


https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/129964



"Walter Trohan, a reporter for the Chicago Tribune with impeccable credentials for integrity and accuracy, reported that two days before President Roosevelt left for the Yalta conference with Churchill and Stalin in early February 1945, he was shown a forty-page memorandum drafted by General MacArthur outlining a Japanese offer for surrender almost identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, President Truman. The single difference was the Japanese insistence on retention of the emperor, which was not acceptable to the American strategists at the time, though it was ultimately allowed in the final peace terms. Trohan relates that he was given a copy of this communication by Admiral Leahy who swore him to secrecy with the pledge not to release the story until the war was over. Trohan honored his pledge and reported his story in the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald on August 19, 1945."

"The real significance of this tragic error of judgment of Roosevelt and Truman is that, in addition to the needless loss of life of innocent civilians on the Japanese homeland, two of the most vicious and costly battles of the Pacific, Iwo Jima and Okinawa, could have been avoided. In addition, the bribing of the Soviet Union to enter the war allowed them to enter Manchuria, strip that area of close to a billion dollars of industrial equipment, and capture enough Japanese arms and ammunition to supply ten divisions, equipment which they then turned over to Mao, thus contributing substantially to the defeat of the Kuomintang. The loss of China had other tragic consequences, namely the Korean and Vietnam Wars."
 
"There is some justification for holding former President Truman less responsible for this tragic blunder. After all, he was new on the job. He was kept completely out of the loop on all important presidential decisions; he was in awe of General Marshall and the decision to go with the bomb had the unanimous support of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs and the majority of the senior presidential advisors. The same reasoning, of course, would not apply to President Roosevelt.

We are all familiar with the nursery rhyme "for want of a nail, the shoe was lost, for want of the shoe the horse was lost," and so on. Was Roosevelt's curt dismissal of MacArthur's warning the "nail" that cost us the loss of not only thousands of soldiers and sailors at Iwo Jima and Okinawa, but also the Communist victory in the Chinese Civil War, the Korean War, and Vietnam?"
 
strummingram said:
Okay... fine. Forget about Truman. He was all Aces. And, he did help advance the elimination of segregation. Not bad for a former KKK member. I stand corrected.

I still do not agree with dropping nuclear bombs, personally. Speculating about "saving lives" by knowing you killed hundreds of thousands seems pretty lame to me. But, I'm fine with being the odd-man-out. I'm used to it.
Click to expand...

I don’t believe in dropping those kinds of weapons either, but that situation justified its usage. It’s easy for us in hindsight to say we should have or should not done this or that. What I do know is that the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man to defend their island, to the point where they were training civilians to be suicide soldiers. It was estimated that we would’ve had a million casualties trying to take Japan by invasion and nearly 3 million Japanese casualties.

Look man, America has made plenty of mistakes. This isn’t one of them. Sometimes those are the kinds of hard decisions that need to be made, and between 175,000 people dying and 4 million, the choice is pretty clear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Archer2, Heels Noir and Hark_The_Sound_2010
carolinablue34 said:
I don’t believe in dropping those kinds of weapons either, but that situation justified its usage. It’s easy for us in hindsight to say we should have or should not done this or that. What I do know is that the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man to defend their island, to the point where they were training civilians to be suicide soldiers. It was estimated that we would’ve had a million casualties trying to take Japan by invasion and nearly 3 million Japanese casualties.

Look man, America has made plenty of mistakes. This isn’t one of them. Sometimes those are the kinds of hard decisions that need to be made, and between 175,000 people dying and 4 million, the choice is pretty clear.
Click to expand...
Well, if you take time to consider other presentations of circumstances that were in-play, it's not "pretty clear."

The Japanese government wanted to surrender months before the surrender occurred.
 
Not to derail this thread too much, but Trump singing along with "God Bless America" reminded me of in the Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode where Frank (Danny Devito) is running a kid's beauty pageant and starts singing "You're a Grand Old Flag, you're a....I DON'T KNOW THIS ONE! I DON'T KNOW IT!"

Ok, carry on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: grillheel
strummingram said:
The single difference was the Japanese insistence on retention of the emperor
Click to expand...
Hmm...
strummingram said:
"The real significance of this tragic error of judgment of Roosevelt and Truman
Click to expand...

Interesting that the author you're quoting attributes the peace treaty not coming to fruition to a "tragic error of judgment" by the US Presidents, whereas it could just as easily be said to have been a tragic error of judgment on the part of Japan for insisting on the emperor thing. That is, if this story is to be believed and the whole thing isn't a complete crock of shit since it can't be corroborated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: heelbent
heelz2345 said:
Not to derail this thread too much, but Trump singing along with "God Bless America" reminded me of in the Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode where Frank (Danny Devito) is running a kid's beauty pageant and starts singing "You're a Grand Old Flag, you're a....I DON'T KNOW THIS ONE! I DON'T KNOW IT!"

Ok, carry on.
Click to expand...
Jeez, how about a spoiler alert next time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heels Noir and heelz2345
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Hmm...


Interesting that the author you're quoting attributes the peace treaty not coming to fruition to a "tragic error of judgment" by the US Presidents, whereas it could just as easily be said to have been a tragic error of judgment on the part of Japan for insisting on the emperor thing. That is, if this story is to be believed and the whole thing isn't a complete crock of shit since it can't be corroborated.
Click to expand...
And, they retained the emperor-ship anyway.

People see what they want to see.
 
strummingram said:
We are all familiar with the nursery rhyme "for want of a nail, the shoe was lost, for want of the shoe the horse was lost," and so on
Click to expand...

Umm... no we're not. I've never heard that before in my life.

strummingram said:
As this article states, I don't think Truman was "evil" and I'm sure, or I sur ehope, he had good intentions. But, he made the wrong decision, in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...wful-thing-why-dropping-the-a-bombs-was-wrong
Click to expand...

You keep saying he made the wrong decision. And you've given reasons why the decision didn't have a perfect/ideal outcome (which is true). But you've yet to present a better decision that would have spared lives, or had a better outcome. And until you do, I think it's fraudulent to say he made the wrong decision.

strummingram said:
And, they retained the emperor-ship anyway.
Click to expand...

Well, I hope it was worth a couple hundred thousand lives to them then.
 
Strum I honestly thought you would at least acknowledge evil and the fact that it exist. But no, you choose the liberal "human" mantra. What about the millions if innocent humans killed every year by "choice".

Furthermore the U.S has done more good for the entire world than anyone else and it's not even close. You don't believe in God Almighty so I know you disagree.
 
Gen. Dwight Eisenhower said in 1963, “the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

No one took Ike'sadvice, apparently, and why would they? He didn't think it was necessary.
 
tazki said:
Strum I honestly thought you would at least acknowledge evil and the fact that it exist. But no, you choose the liberal "human" mantra. What about the millions if innocent humans killed every year by "choice".

Furthermore the U.S has done more good for the entire world than anyone else and it's not even close. You don't believe in God Almighty so I know you disagree.
Click to expand...
I do believe in God. I just don't believe that God is "Christian." So, thanks for your contribution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: heelbent and Hark_The_Sound_2010
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
You keep saying he made the wrong decision. And you've given reasons why the decision didn't have a perfect/ideal outcome (which is true). But you've yet to present a better decision that would have spared lives, or had a better outcome. And until you do, I think it's fraudulent to say he made the wrong decision.
.
Click to expand...
I didn't realize you needed it spelled-out for you.

They could have accepted the surrender back in February, and saved EVEN MORE lives! Read what I offered. They had the chance to accept the surrender, they didn't. They actually got more Americans killed as a result.

Dude, I don't believe that most people in power give a rat's-ass about average human beings. That is why they treat them as currency throughout history. They're tribal as fvck, just like we are. If they're "American lives" then they're worth "more." Just like it was absolutely necessary to try and kill-off as many American Indians as necessary. They were sub-human, so to hell with them. The only good Indian, is a dead Indian- Phil Sheridan.
 
heelz2345 said:
Sorry I spoiled a joke from a 7 year old episode
Click to expand...
Hey, some of us don't just sit around watching TV and movies all day. Some of us still have things in our queue.

heelz2345 said:
but there is so much going on in that one that I am far from spoiling the whole thing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but now I won't be able to laugh at the joke which will ruin the whole episode.

tenor.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: heelz2345
tazki said:
You believe we are all "God" which is comical. And thanks for confirming my contribution.
Click to expand...
Well, I believe God is in all of us. God is in a Muslim, and a Hindu, and a Buddhist, and a Jew, and a Zoroastrian, and a Taoist, and a Presbyterian, and an Atheist, and everything, and everyone else. Anything is a pathway to God if it works for you. You call God a "He." That is comical to me. Why God needs a penis, I'll never know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hark_The_Sound_2010
tarheel0910 said:
Haven't seen Infinity War yet. Still need to see Black Panther.

(Cue @gunslingerdick comment about comic book movies sucking.)
Click to expand...
At the risk of sounding like a broken record myself, I think the run that the MCU has had over the past two years (the 3 discussed movies+Spider-Man Homecoming & Guardians vol. 2) might be the best stretch of five movies in there.
 
heelz2345 said:
At the risk of sounding like a broken record myself, I think the run that the MCU has had over the past two years (the 3 discussed movies+Spider-Man Homecoming & Guardians vol. 2) might be the best stretch of five movies in there.
Click to expand...
I forgot about Sider-man. Add that one to the need to watch list for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: heelz2345
BillyL said:
Well sh!t, it's looking more and more like a 5 star thread now . . eh @gunslingerdick ?



You damn betcha . .

;)
Click to expand...
I would say four stars right now. I think we need to get off track one more time before it gets to five stars. That's not to be confused with five guys. Speaking of five guys, what's everyone having for dinner?
 
tarheel0910 said:
I would say four stars right now. I think we need to get off track one more time before it gets to five stars. That's not to be confused with five guys. Speaking of five guys, what's everyone having for dinner?
Click to expand...

Barbecued chicken, succotash, grilled tomatoes here . . thanks for asking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tarheel0910
We had one that, despite being in office for 8 years, had an annual GDP growth since the recession ended has averaged a feeble 2.1 percent, by far the puniest economic performance of any president since World War II.

We had one, while on his watch, millions of additional Americans fell below the poverty line. The number of food stamp recipients soared. The national debt doubled to an incredible $20 trillion. According to the Pew Research Center, the share of young adults (18- to 34-year-olds) living in their parents’ homes is the highest it has been since the Great Depression.

We had one, while attempting to keep his campaign promise, pulled US troops out of 2 different countries and allowed a brutal group of fighters to revive. This president even said a well-known dictator could be "reformed" and refused to come to the aid of thousands of people who eventually perished in an orchestrated genocidal attack.

We had one that promised better health care, lower deductables, and in December 2013, PolitiFact dubbed this presidents promise of “If you like your health plan, you can keep it” as its 'Lie of the Year” while hundreds of companies lost billions and eventually, turned their backs on the the president.

We had one president that decided to trade 5 high ranking taliban members for a traitor and deserter of the US Army.
 
strummingram said:
Well, I believe God is in all of us. God is in a Muslim, and a Hindu, and a Buddhist, and a Jew, and a Zoroastrian, and a Taoist, and a Presbyterian, and an Atheist, and everything, and everyone else. Anything is a pathway to God if it works for you. You call God a "He." That is comical to me. Why God needs a penis, I'll never know.
Click to expand...

I must say it borderline terrifies me that I think your view on spirituality is the closest to my own on this board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: heelbent and UNC71-00
You must log in or register to reply here.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back