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Am I wrong to think this way?

Tigertown_a_Rick

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Jul 29, 2001
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I've followed Carolina Basketball since the late 60s, and I will always love the Baby Blue, but I'm now having thoughts of moving on from the sport altogether after the worst officiating that I've ever seen in a Final Four....I could not even enjoy the win over Syracuse on Saturday or especially the championship game this past monday because I was constantly hollering and cussing about the officiating that I felt, was as slanted as any I can ever remember watching in the NCAA Tourney....The Fact that Carolina was called for "touch fouls" and "hustle fouls", while Nova got away with anything that they wanted too do including several obvious traveling violations that weren't called, just left me feeling as though "the fix" was in, and it's just very difficult for me personally to move beyond that?

I really couldn't be any prouder of a Tar Heel Basketball team than I was of this one, which has dealt with more adversity from the unfair and sensational journalism regarding the ongoing NCAA investigation than Any Tar Heel team before them IMO....That is what makes it even tougher for me as a longtime fan because this team put that all aside, and accomplished a great deal in winning the regular season and ACC tournament in spite of the ongoing NCAA investigation, and constant onslaught from Media types who seemed hellbent on casting a shadow on this year's team who had nothing to do with what had, or had not happened in the past at Carolina in regards to the AFAM scandal.....Watching Marcus Paige in the postgame press conference as he tried to answer questons with quivering lips, brought tears to my eyes, and left me even madder about what had just transpired....

I ask myself: Was this team penalized because of the AFAM scandal and the ongoing and seemingly endless NCAA investigation?

Was it just a matter of Officials who are on the take?

Did the NCAA instruct the officials to call the game in the manner they did in order to prevent a team under investigation from winning the title?

I've always been the type of person to congratulate the winner whether the officiating was bad that night or not, but I'm just having a hard time doing that this time, and am now contemplating giving-up the sport that I've always loved, and followed most of my life....

Nova did what they were suppose too do, and made some shots that they had too make to win this game, but I just have this empty feeling inside that Carolina was CHEATED out of this title by either the officials, the NCAA, or maybe both, and it's just hard for me personally to have the same kind of feeling about the sport, moving forward....

Maybe I'll feel better after a long offseason, but right now my enthusiasm for the sport of College Basketball has dimmed considerably since the Championship game, and I just can't seem to even think about the sport at the moment, and I have never considered myself as a sore loser, and don't now, but something has changed in my way of looking at the College game after monday night?

Don't know if there are other long time fans like me that feel the same or not, but today is the first time since the Championship game that I have been able to express how I felt about what transpired on monday night because I could not listen to any discussion on TV, or read comments about the game until today...

Am I off base, or do other Carolina Basketball fans feel as I do?

Opinions welcomed as always!
 
I was upset about the calls during the game. Now there is nothing I can do but congratulate the team that made the plays to win, and look forward to next year.
 
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I
I've followed Carolina Basketball since the late 60s, and I will always love the Baby Blue, but I'm now having thoughts of moving on from the sport altogether after the worst officiating that I've ever seen in a Final Four....I could not even enjoy the win over Syracuse on Saturday or especially the championship game this past monday because I was constantly hollering and cussing about the officiating that I felt, was as slanted as any I can ever remember watching in the NCAA Tourney....The Fact that Carolina was called for "touch fouls" and "hustle fouls", while Nova got away with anything that they wanted too do including several obvious traveling violations that weren't called, just left me feeling as though "the fix" was in, and it's just very difficult for me personally to move beyond that?

I really couldn't be any prouder of a Tar Heel Basketball team than I was of this one, which has dealt with more adversity from the unfair and sensational journalism regarding the ongoing NCAA investigation than Any Tar Heel team before them IMO....That is what makes it even tougher for me as a longtime fan because this team put that all aside, and accomplished a great deal in winning the regular season and ACC tournament in spite of the ongoing NCAA investigation, and constant onslaught from Media types who seemed hellbent on casting a shadow on this year's team who had nothing to do with what had, or had not happened in the past at Carolina in regards to the AFAM scandal.....Watching Marcus Paige in the postgame press conference as he tried to answer questons with quivering lips, brought tears to my eyes, and left me even madder about what had just transpired....

I ask myself: Was this team penalized because of the AFAM scandal and the ongoing and seemingly endless NCAA investigation?

Was it just a matter of Officials who are on the take?

Did the NCAA instruct the officials to call the game in the manner they did in order to prevent a team under investigation from winning the title?

I've always been the type of person to congratulate the winner whether the officiating was bad that night or not, but I'm just having a hard time doing that this time, and am now contemplating giving-up the sport that I've always loved, and followed most of my life....

Nova did what they were suppose too do, and made some shots that they had too make to win this game, but I just have this empty feeling inside that Carolina was CHEATED out of this title by either the officials, the NCAA, or maybe both, and it's just hard for me personally to have the same kind of feeling about the sport, moving forward....

Maybe I'll feel better after a long offseason, but right now my enthusiasm for the sport of College Basketball has dimmed considerably since the Championship game, and I just can't seem to even think about the sport at the moment, and I have never considered myself as a sore loser, and don't now, but something has changed in my way of looking at the College game after monday night?

Don't know if there are other long time fans like me that feel the same or not, but today is the first time since the Championship game that I have been able to express how I felt about what transpired on monday night because I could not listen to any discussion on TV, or read comments about the game until today...

Am I off base, or do other Carolina Basketball fans feel as I do?

Opinions welcomed as always!
I'm backing your statement 100%!!
 
Nova played a good game and did what they needed to do to win the game and I did offer my congrats, but I still feel the same way during that game, that they were going to ge sure we didn't win it. But our guts, especially Marcus, at the end still almost pulled it off, feel sure we would have won in overtime. And the officials didn't make that last shot for nova, a fine young man did that will forever be a hero, so can't take that away from him. So, in the end, I will always live my heeks, and will always watch every game, and will always cheer them on.
 
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You need to search and realize that as a fan- you have no stake in any of this and the the loss actually does nothing to you. We should all feel guilty for having such selfish, petty thoughts when there's a team of kids who were ACTUALLY affected by the game and they have to move on for real- not just cut the tv off and decide what to have for breakfast.

Grow up or move on. I'm sorry, but life is too full of potholes and roadblocks to let something as ridiculous as this take away something you supposedly support.
 
If you're going to be so bothered by officiating that it affects your ability to enjoy the games? Stop watching and stop supporting the team. I can guarantee you that the coaches and players are going to continue to practice and perform to the best of their ability. And, every game, you're going to have referees officiating them. So... stop crying that the refs are robbing UNC, or holding some grudge, or holding us to a different standard, and pull for the team and school. I can also guarantee that every losing team's fan base has a percentage of the fan base that cries and whines that the refs are to blame for losses- big and small.
 
Players on college and professional teams move on from a loss much quicker than fans. You know what fan is short for.
 
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Rick, I think you are completely OK to feel that way. Call me crazy but I actually re watched a good portion of the title game on Weds evening and honestly, because I knew the outcome I was able to watch a little more objectively and even then I can say that some of the calls against our Heels were shameful and some of the missed fouls and travels against Nova were also equally as shameful. Nova did their part to earn the win, the officiating in key situations surely helped their cause as well. There's no denying that. Quite a few of the talking heads on Tuesday on ESPN highlighted as much by saying that the buzzer beater will overshadow how terribly the game was officiated. Michael Smith even said that the NCAA is the biggest winner because they now have a "shining moment" they can play forever, but also because of the dramatics in the ending, it won't force them to actually acknowledge how terrible the officiating was.

I don't know that I can buy the conspiracy theory but I can't ignore the affect that officiating had on the game. I also don't want it to take away from all the great things Nova did to win the game and all the things our kids did to come oh so close.
 
OP, no you're not wrong to think that way. I've seen many heartbreaking UNC losses throughout the years and I don't ever remember feeling hosed by the refs like in this one. The 2 calls that will haunt UNC fans:

1)The no foul at end of the first half that led to a Nova basket was a MASSIVE 4-point swing.

2) Phil Booth's travel/free throws in the last minute.






 
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OP, no you're not wrong to think that way. I've seen many heartbreaking UNC losses throughout the years and I don't ever remember feeling hosed by the refs like in this one. The 2 calls that will haunt UNC fans:

1)The no foul at end of the first half that led to a Nova basket was a MASSIVE 4-point swing.

2) Phil Booth's travel/free throws in the last minute.






There were some VERY bad missed-calls in that game! I still remember the travel that was called AGAINST Nova in 2005 that helped us win the game.
 
I still remember the travel that was called AGAINST Nova in 2005 that helped us win the game.

I was at the Carrier Dome in Syracuse for that game in 2005. To this day, the most heated I've ever seen fans get on a neutral court. 'Nova fans were throwing trash onto the court after the game.
 
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I thought the game was very poorly officiated especially the foul call on Hicks at the end which was massive..
The end of the first half was a four point swing and there were some others as well
BUT we simply did not make EASY put back shots around the rim when we needed to and also could not stop NOVA when we had to..

Also JJ missed two FTS towards the end as well that could have impacted the game

It is over and nothing can be done about it..but I understand your frustration
 
I will say this, a blind man could see that the officials missed alot of calls. This has been the norm for a while it seems. To call it a fix or conspiracy, may be reaching. Replay will show alot of.missed calls. But here's the thing, if it was a conspiracy, then it's a mighty big one. Too many people involved for something not to leak.
I just think it was a poorly called game. I also know we faced this same scenario before. The difference, the team played thru it. Monday night, not so much. We played a b- or c+ game IMO. That factored heavily. Imagine what it would have looked like had we not been so hot from three in the first half. We had our chance and did not take it. If Paige did not make the push late like he did, it wouldn't be as close. People always say you need some luck to win it all and Nova had it in a golden horseshoe form.
On a side note, we have cried for years about dook getting calls. This is no more a conspiracy than that would be.
I went thru a period last year where I questioned if I really wanted to continue stressing myself with all that surrounded the program and the product I saw on the floor. Then I realised, it's a part of my life that I've kept from my youth. Music and other taste change. We don't think like kids and do the opposite of what we did when we were young. But UNC sports has always been there. Don't let anyone take that away
 
I feel exactly the same way as the OP, we were cheated. However, in the end it's Carolina basketball!...All through Jr High there was Previs, Karl, Jones, and MacAdoo. Then came Walter Davis, Tommy LaGarde, Mitch Kupchak, Phil Ford Al Wood and O'Koren . There was Kenny Smith, Worthy, Perkins, Jordan. Then came JR, King, Hubert, and Fox! There were the "projects" like Scott Williams, Warren Martin and Rich Yonaker. Marcus and Brice go to the top of the list now! The list goes on and on and I watched those guys grow up and go on to the NBA or coaching, or whatever profession they chose. Through the highs and the lows there was Dean and Gut, Eddie and Roy! For better of for worse, regardless of how bad the officiating is, I'll be here following the recruiting news. I'll be here for LNWR. I'll be here til the Good Lord decides my time is done.
 
I feel exactly the same way as the OP, we were cheated. However, in the end it's Carolina basketball!...All through Jr High there was Previs, Karl, Jones, and MacAdoo. Then came Walter Davis, Tommy LaGarde, Mitch Kupchak, Phil Ford Al Wood and O'Koren . There was Kenny Smith, Worthy, Perkins, Jordan. Then came JR, King, Hubert, and Fox! There were the "projects" like Scott Williams, Warren Martin and Rich Yonaker. Marcus and Brice go to the top of the list now! The list goes on and on and I watched those guys grow up and go on to the NBA or coaching, or whatever profession they chose. Through the highs and the lows there was Dean and Gut, Eddie and Roy! For better of for worse, regardless of how bad the officiating is, I'll be here following the recruiting news. I'll be here for LNWR. I'll be here til the Good Lord decides my time is done.




I went back and counted 14 missed calls and/or bad calls that either helped 'Nova and/or hurt UNC. These were ALL calls that I considered highly questionable (thus, imo). The difference in the points that I counted (again, imo) totaled 11 points that UNC either did not get and/or that 'Nova did get. Heck, Jenkins last Shot involved a MOVING SCREEN. Take those three off of the board (and they should have been removed by rule; imo) and the game would have been tied at the end of regulation play. Well, we all know that did not happen. Yes, I do believe that at least several of the calls/non-calls were against UNC in some way, shape or form. That is the way that I will always see it now. However, I will eventually move onward. All of the above is my opinion and my opinion alone. Go Heels!
 
You need to search and realize that as a fan- you have no stake in any of this and the the loss actually does nothing to you. We should all feel guilty for having such selfish, petty thoughts when there's a team of kids who were ACTUALLY affected by the game and they have to move on for real- not just cut the tv off and decide what to have for breakfast.

Grow up or move on. I'm sorry, but life is too full of potholes and roadblocks to let something as ridiculous as this take away something you supposedly support.

I am grown up, and I'm a man who has persistent A-Fib , but I haven't let that deter me from watching the game....Again, I may feel different before next season about College Basketball in general, but it bothers me because I know the game, played the game, and have coached the game in the past.....It's true that I have NO vested interest but if I didn't care about the outcome or Carolina basketball, I probably wouldn't even read this forum, or post about it as you and I have both done in expressing different opinions about how we should feel about the outcome of the championship game....

I could say something like quit being so narrow-minded, but name calling only takes the discussion in a different, and unintended direction...

It;s not so much about the team who I will always support, but more about the game of College Basketball, and how the outcomes seem to be more and more manipulated by officials....Twice on Saturday a Syracuse player stepped out of bounds in front of the referee, but there was NO call, and the ball ultimately ended up being a Syracuse possession in the end.....How do you not see that?....Glad we won, but those are just a couple things that I noticed....Mike Eades as usual was terrible, and made a few questionable calls both ways.....That game too was terribly officiated, and Hicks and Brice were both targets seemingly before the game ever started!

I have not watched the replay of the Villanova game, and doubt that I ever will.....Again, our team the Tar Heels played about as well as they could on the perimeter by setting a Championship game record for 3 pointers....It's also true that we missed a lot of gimmes in the 2nd half that would have made a difference, and the Jenkins kid did make the most of that last play, so Kudos to him, but how many possessions did the Tar Heels lose do to either questionable or NO calls at all by the officials?....I would be willing to bet without ever watching the replay that there were at least 10 different Calls or No Calls that affected the outcome of the game....At one stretch in the first half, Carolina had 8 fouls called against them in succession...

Officials should never overshadow, or help determine the outcome of the the game, but yet it seems like that is happening more and more nowadays, or maybe it's just that there's a lot more games to watch with more criticism about officials as a result of that?....Either way, it's not a good look for College Basketball, and it's not a way to keep fans from leaving the sport, or a way to attract more fans to the sport IMO....

The old line that most officials are honest and unbiased when the ball is tipped, is still something that I want to believe when I watch a game, but what I saw on Monday night didn't make it look fair for both teams....And yes I might be looking through some baby-blue tinted glasses, but I generally will give everyone the benefit of a doubt if something happens, but when it happens repeatedly right in front of you....Then, the game itself starts to lose some credibility, and I guess that is where I'm at right now....

I've told many people in the past that I'm not the typical wine and cheese fan that other fan bases make fun of, but rather I'm the beer and baloney type fan...Even though, I don't drink anymore or care much for baloney personally, but you get the message...
 
I know quite a few officials in different sports. I can tell you without a doubt that 99% of them want to call the best game they can. And without any bias. Do they make bad calls sometimes? Of course. And much easier to armchair QB their performance with the clarity of today's TV, super slow mo, and 70" TV's. It's a tough job. And the refs are always a convenient target to blame the loss on. When the team plays perfect, and the coach makes every correct decision, then one can blame the refs. There were many instances on the game where if we don't commit an unforced turnover, hit one more free throw, or if Jackson had taken the ball strong near the end of the first half that turned into a four point swing, we still win.
 
I know quite a few officials in different sports. I can tell you without a doubt that 99% of them want to call the best game they can. And without any bias. Do they make bad calls sometimes? Of course. And much easier to armchair QB their performance with the clarity of today's TV, super slow mo, and 70" TV's. It's a tough job. And the refs are always a convenient target to blame the loss on. When the team plays perfect, and the coach makes every correct decision, then one can blame the refs. There were many instances on the game where if we don't commit an unforced turnover, hit one more free throw, or if Jackson had taken the ball strong near the end of the first half that turned into a four point swing, we still win.



Ah... JJackson absolutely went STRONG to the basket...
 
I share the same sentiments as the OP but I also feel it's time to move on. It sucks and it still makes me mad. I've avoided all mention - except on this board - of anything related to Monday night. I don't want to hear it mentioned ever again. I don't want to see any replays or highlights. It's left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm still having a hard time congratulating Villanova on the win. Dont know that I ever will. Great shot at the end, but that's about as close as it gets for me. Don't feel like they earned it.

Ahem....sorry.....moving on.
 
I've followed Carolina Basketball since the late 60s, and I will always love the Baby Blue, but I'm now having thoughts of moving on from the sport altogether after the worst officiating that I've ever seen in a Final Four....I could not even enjoy the win over Syracuse on Saturday or especially the championship game this past monday because I was constantly hollering and cussing about the officiating that I felt, was as slanted as any I can ever remember watching in the NCAA Tourney....The Fact that Carolina was called for "touch fouls" and "hustle fouls", while Nova got away with anything that they wanted too do including several obvious traveling violations that weren't called, just left me feeling as though "the fix" was in, and it's just very difficult for me personally to move beyond that?

I really couldn't be any prouder of a Tar Heel Basketball team than I was of this one, which has dealt with more adversity from the unfair and sensational journalism regarding the ongoing NCAA investigation than Any Tar Heel team before them IMO....That is what makes it even tougher for me as a longtime fan because this team put that all aside, and accomplished a great deal in winning the regular season and ACC tournament in spite of the ongoing NCAA investigation, and constant onslaught from Media types who seemed hellbent on casting a shadow on this year's team who had nothing to do with what had, or had not happened in the past at Carolina in regards to the AFAM scandal.....Watching Marcus Paige in the postgame press conference as he tried to answer questons with quivering lips, brought tears to my eyes, and left me even madder about what had just transpired....

I ask myself: Was this team penalized because of the AFAM scandal and the ongoing and seemingly endless NCAA investigation?

Was it just a matter of Officials who are on the take?

Did the NCAA instruct the officials to call the game in the manner they did in order to prevent a team under investigation from winning the title?

I've always been the type of person to congratulate the winner whether the officiating was bad that night or not, but I'm just having a hard time doing that this time, and am now contemplating giving-up the sport that I've always loved, and followed most of my life....

Nova did what they were suppose too do, and made some shots that they had too make to win this game, but I just have this empty feeling inside that Carolina was CHEATED out of this title by either the officials, the NCAA, or maybe both, and it's just hard for me personally to have the same kind of feeling about the sport, moving forward....

Maybe I'll feel better after a long offseason, but right now my enthusiasm for the sport of College Basketball has dimmed considerably since the Championship game, and I just can't seem to even think about the sport at the moment, and I have never considered myself as a sore loser, and don't now, but something has changed in my way of looking at the College game after monday night?

Don't know if there are other long time fans like me that feel the same or not, but today is the first time since the Championship game that I have been able to express how I felt about what transpired on monday night because I could not listen to any discussion on TV, or read comments about the game until today...

Am I off base, or do other Carolina Basketball fans feel as I do?

Opinions welcomed as always!


Rick, here is about all I can tell ya, yeah, I did not like the way the game was called and yes I do think it played a hand in the out come of the game. But I don't want to dwell in a past that I can not change, I would rather look forward to a future that is still un-written.

Life is a thing of hills and valleys, sometimes things are great and at other times not so great, don't get used to the one because the other is just around the corner. UNC sports as a whole, basketball as a slice of that, we had a great season and that was a nice peak, we had a valley in that title game, that to shall pass.

I just don't want to dwell on that title game other than the fact that BOTH teams did play great, I am not going to allow the way the game was called to effect the way I see things moving forward, I am not giving away that kind of power over myself. I LOOK FORWARD to NEXT season NOW and the ONLY reason I will look back NOW is to enjoy the great season we just had and I credit those players and coaches for that priviledge of enjoyment.

Lets leave the history in the history books so the historians can have something to argue over, me, I want to see what cool futures are yet to be written or in this case written about.

It is hard to let go, hard to let go of something you love especially if you feel something was wrongly taken from you to soon, , so many of us loved this season and this particular team and we don't want to let it go just yet, I get that. But at some point we all have to before we can love the next version of a Tar Heel team, I have already let go of the 2016 team, love them, will always be in a special place but on to 2017 now. Marcus, Brice, and Big Joel will be missed...But we never have them for more than 4yrs and some of them we don't have for that long and yet every year we find a new team of players to love and that is what will happen now as well.

The NCAA cloud is about to go away by all accounts over this off season, what a happy day when that cloud finally passes. WE will have a new team with a lot of faces we love from this last team come opening tip for next season! What a joy it would be to see opening tip and this NCAA cloud away from us for good, and our next Tar Heel team do what tar Heel teams do, play another wonderful season of peaks and valleys and maybe in the end make a thrilling run. That is the future I am now looking forward to and for me it beats the heck out of looking back at a hard time.
 
I would say in the world we live in of slow mo replay and HD you will see more and more games where "refs decide the outcome" Harsh as it is, I don't think its any different that 15-20 years ago except with everyone being able to DVR games and replay, or every play being online its easier to go back and review. I have officiated various sports at HS and College levels. Its hard...and not matter how much we want to say "ref was right there" there's a lot going on. Yes bad calls were made that favored Nova....bad calls were made that favored UNC. I will admit more were made for Nova, but to say they decided the outcome... I can argue that if the first foul against Jenkins was called differently then he might have played more than 21 minutes and the entire game changes... I think DSouthr has the right idea...you vent, then remember the good and look towards the future. I am a huge NFL fan and even with instant replay they still get calls wrong in my opinion. I can't see myself stopping watching even though I get fired up for 5 minutes.
 
i can get over the loss of a national championship. but something else was lost, in my opinion, that's harder to get over: the integrity of college basketball. nobody gives a damm unless it directly affects their favorite team, but i can say with 100% honesty that i would be outraged if ANY team were shafted in a national title game the way carolina was.
 
i can get over the loss of a national championship. but something else was lost, in my opinion, that's harder to get over: the integrity of college basketball. nobody gives a damm unless it directly affects their favorite team, but i can say with 100% honesty that i would be outraged if ANY team were shafted in a national title game the way carolina was.
Do you think it has changed that much say over 20 years? You say the integrity of college bball...are you referring to the media scrutiny or do you think it was literally changed? I do agree with you it seems nobody cares except the losing team, but it also seems that people cry the argument every close game no matter if it was well called or not.
 
....bad calls were made that favored UNC. I will admit more were made for Nova, but to say they decided the outcome... ...

refs don't have to determine the outcome of a game to be corrupt, they just have to influence it. are the refs THE reason carolina lost? no. but they were a significant factor, and that's unacceptable if you care about college basketball as a sport, and not just entertainment.
 
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