Andrej Stojakovic
- Thread starter AllAboutHeels
- Start date
I have serious doubt Hubert is even making the connection that so many kids are turning down adequate money from UNC to play somewhere else is looking more and more like it’s because of him (whether it be his system, program dysfunction, etc).
What I don’t know is if he’s just that aloof to reality, or he such a positive spinner of everything, he’s in denial.
Going by 75 years of UNC standards,,, the program is an absolute mess. I’m baffled how positive some of the outlooks are on here about the roster.
What I don’t know is if he’s just that aloof to reality, or he such a positive spinner of everything, he’s in denial.
Going by 75 years of UNC standards,,, the program is an absolute mess. I’m baffled how positive some of the outlooks are on here about the roster.
In fairness to Hubert, he --- as a guy someone would want to play for --- ain't the issue.
It is what he has bought into from a schematic standpoint.
I guess this one can be closed but the issue that closed it is not going away
I don’t think I’ll ever understand why anyone would abandon a blueprint with decades of success to adhere to the advice and schemes of an unsuccessful former head coach now assistant. HD was literally taught, mentored and handed a system that has been abandoned for the most bush league offense I’ve ever seen at Carolina.
If I’m correct in assuming this means he bought into Jeff’s poor schematics, isn’t that even still on Hubert, as it ultimately requires his approval to run those said schematics?
YES.
The HC makes all final decisions. If the HC swallows bad advice, the fault goes to the HC. His jib was to take good advice and reject the bad.
When I think of UNC basketball 3 things immediately come to mind (or at least used to):
Transition offense/Secondary break
Offensive rebounding
100% effort with mental focus
Freshman eligibility, shot clock, 3 point shot ..., whatever the rule changes that occurred, UNC adapted but the core style remained constant. Carolina always had the advantage with the guy in the HC seat and the teams played with confidence that they were prepared for whatever happened.
Now, I hardly recognize the product on the court. Hubert is heading into his 5th year and I still could not tell you the hallmarks of his style, except for maybe inconsistency. I now wish that unbelievable six game run in year one had not happened, maybe the powers that be would have ripped off the band-aid by now.
Maybe it's arrogance on my part from growing up loving the Heels and seeing their success, but UNC should annually be in position to make the FF by playing to its potential, and not relying on a hot streak.
Transition offense/Secondary break
Offensive rebounding
100% effort with mental focus
Freshman eligibility, shot clock, 3 point shot ..., whatever the rule changes that occurred, UNC adapted but the core style remained constant. Carolina always had the advantage with the guy in the HC seat and the teams played with confidence that they were prepared for whatever happened.
Now, I hardly recognize the product on the court. Hubert is heading into his 5th year and I still could not tell you the hallmarks of his style, except for maybe inconsistency. I now wish that unbelievable six game run in year one had not happened, maybe the powers that be would have ripped off the band-aid by now.
Maybe it's arrogance on my part from growing up loving the Heels and seeing their success, but UNC should annually be in position to make the FF by playing to its potential, and not relying on a hot streak.
If I'm understanding correctly, Hubert and Lebo are both the problem. The difference is that Lebo can't replace or ignore Hubert.
UNC made the decision to give Hubert another year. They seem to be thinking that he just needs better players, so the also gave him a GM and $12 million for players. Not everybody agrees with that, but it's not an unreasonable plan,
What I'm wondering is why they lept Hubert and gave him $12 million for players without requiring any shakeup in the coaching staff.
Did Hubert tell them what he needed, and they gave it to him? Or did this solution come from above?
I would argue the main thing was UNC used to have devastating talent. All of Roy's teams that made the Elite 8 had multiple 1st round NBA picks and several of them had NBA 1st round draft picks coming off the bench.
But I do agree that I don't really know what Hubert's identity is that gets portrayed by his players on the court. They still run and play fast but apart from that, I don't know what the identity is. And playing fast isn't really an identity to me. I also think trying at all costs to play as fast as possible just to play fast is flawed.
The tempo has to be rooted in something and I don't think it is for the current UNC. There was more of a logic to it with Roy. The bigs run, get early position. If they don't get the ball, they're in an early offensive rebounding position.
Right now on paper, next year's team lacks devastating talent. So there's something tactical that Hubert and the staff will need to unlock to get the most out of the team.
I'm personally not as obsessed as others are that UNC plays a particular style of basketball. There are many ways to win a basketball game. I'm more than willing to accept a different brand if that's your identity. Kelvin Sampson for instance plays at a snails slow pace that will absolutely guard you to death and manufacture offense. Danny Hurley plays at a very slow pace and runs a ton of set plays. There are different ways to do it.
Throw in multiple defense and yep.
No system is perfect, but having an identity and coaching it well will win ya a lot more games than it loses.
And given how many coaches have copied elements of Dean's should tell ya something as to its efficacy.
GMAB with that noise.
If you knew anything about the history of Carolina basketball, you'd know that Dean made his reputation early on by winning when he was outmanned, and continued to win way more than his competitors when talent was equal because of his system and coaching abilty. The "devastating talent" started coming once he made us a perennial power.
Even with that, easily his highest ranked recruiting class was dubbed the Fab 5 before the other Fab 5 --- Montross, Rozier, Phelps, Sullivan and Reese, (and Rozier bolted) but before that, he just evaluated and coached up talent better than anybody. Yes, he brought in some terrific players but not the sort of multi-5* hauls of the uks of the world. In other words, he mixed in blie-chippers with really solid guys and coached them up. Outside of '91, you would be hard-pressed to have found UNC ranked as a having a #1 recruiting class.
As I said above, of course there are different ways to craft a system, but spare me the smug passive-aggressive crap about Hurley or Houston or whomever. What they do is fine for whomever. Not here. Fact is, the Carolina system has a longer and better track-record than either, and advocating doing anything other than that here where it started is just short-sighted self-owning idiocy,
Since HD is in a very hot seat and must produce this year, why isn't the coaching staff being culled and upgraded with proven, high profile assistants that can give confidence to the prospects and their families that they will be coached up by experts ? Our existing assistants, despite being "family," have not been poached because they are not deemed desirable by top programs. I want our assistants to be so good and respected that others want to poach them.
With all respect then he needs to change it. He is the head coach.
I was comparing Hubert mainly to Roy. I can't speak for the 90s really. I didn't watch UNC basketball much before 10.
Roy won when he had the talent to win.
The mark of a great coach is his teams win the games they are supposed to win and win a lot of the games they are not favored to. Dean's teams simply out executed to opponents, they were taught to make sure the little things were done properly. In fairness back in Dean's day coaches could spend a lot more time drilling their players on the court, practice times are far more regulated now days. Dean as well coached in a time that players leaving early was rare. Michael leaving after 3, Worthy leaving with remaining eligibility, and as Gary offers Rosier leaving are rare situations for most of Dean's career. Strong talents that stay for 4 years in a well structured offensive and defensive approach is like taking the same class for 4yrs in a row, you get good at it. Roy took most of what Dean taught him with him when he became a head coach, for some odd reason Roy didn't take the multi defensive approach with him, I always felt that was a mistake by Roy.
It is the little things that UNC under Dean and Roy that made so much difference and it was all 5 guys on the court properly doing those little things that come from being properly taught and executing them over time. Couple examples of so many, Puff Johnson is in at a critical point in the game against duke, Puff was blocking out a duke big man. Puff engaged in the block out deep in the paint and doesn't just block out but continues the block out to where the duke player was darn near the top of the key, I could not help but laugh but that was block out execution excellence. More recent example, from last season, did ya notice the "screens" Jalen was giving us, I use quotes over the word screen because that was as poor an excuse for how to set a screen as I have seen. You telling me a 6'10" kid that has been in your program for 3years and that is the best he can do setting a freakin screen? Setting a screen, blocking out for a board is not about talent, it is about work and execution, it is about being properly taught to set that screen.
And you know what, those little things executed or not over the course of a game add up, when you find yourself in a tight game late, those little things add up to be either winning margin or loss margin. The basic basketball fundamentals, you can have a crappy approach both offensive and defensive but execute the fundamentals properly and you will win the majority of your games.
Every coach in the country wins when he has well prepared experienced talent that is better than the other team. If you want t try to make a case that Roy only won by out talenting the opponents you better be prepared for a ton of push back.
Man, what a difference a year makes. Last year the most common narrative was that we did not have enough NIL money to land the five that we needed.
I think the problem on our end is the well prepared part. We’ve had experience with HD just not good experience. Roy won championships, not just games though. He did have more talent than almost everyone but he got his talent to stay multiple year.
You remember all the crap UNC caught on the recruiting trails about the best players staying too long. We loved it but it was used against us. I’ve never cared about recruiting battles and having the top class. Didn’t even care about Marcus or Joel even being NBA, or the several others that didn’t make it. Now it’s a whole new ballgame.
My point is to agree a little with both sides. Alabama and Auburn are great examples of really good talent better than a lot of teams, but not winning at all. I think that’s where Roy excelled by having really good talent but getting them to stay and then winning. You could always Bank on ol Roy being in the mix every 3 to 4 years for a championship.
Definitely not saying that. It’s more of a point that I don’t think Hubert’s been able to attract elite talent here consistently during his tenure.
Roy had freshman that were better than some of Hubert’s junior starters/role players.
And since Hubert isn’t going to beat good coaches in a tactical matchup, I think he needs that devastating talent UNC is accustomed to if he wants to do anything significant here.
Yeah this year we don’t have enough remaining money for the scorer
Bama, what I see, in addition to the more global approach problems, which are to me at the level of termination offense, is simply a poorly taught team that lacks basic fundamentals. It doesn't look to me like we work much at all on teaching basic fundamentals, we seem to have replaced that with a street ball Calipari approach to coaching, spread the court and someone take their man 1 on 1.
Understand, before joining Roy's staff Hubert made a living by breaking down what teams did from their film and commenting on what he saw to a national audience, and he was really good at it. So if there was anyone that you would assume could spot talent and know at very least what court position they should be it should be Hubert. The man played 4yrs for Dean, played in the NBA for a nice career, had the ESPN experience, and was assistant coach for Roy for 8 years. Other than having head coaching experience how better prepared could a resume read? LOL
I don't think Hubert is a stupid man, I think he is an intelligent and caring man but there is some influence on him that is driving this thing in to a ditch. Where is that influence coming from, I think it is coming from Lebo. See, Lebo likes being in control, seems to believe his way is the only way, will exert his influence any chance he gets where Hubert is more a lets all get along, I want you to like me, I will buy you your favorite cookies if you will like me. It is just the nature of we humans, some need to go along to get along and others need to always lead the way. Hard lesson in life to learn is that all your friends are not really your friends and your enemies are not really enemies, and that sometimes your enemy ends up being the best friend you have. I think Hubert is risking his coaching career if he can not learn this this valuable lesson.
I just don't see how that narrative is possible. We clearly had a large chunk set aside for Drake that just became available in the last week or two. We had whatever size chunk set aside for lubin which just became available a month ago and we really have yet to spend anything sizable since his departure. I also don't think it's realistic that we went in and made the top three with stojakovich offering 700k. All of those beliefs are completely lacking foundation in fact, just the basic logical smell test
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No doubt but the buck stops with HD. If the intel is true about Lebo, and even the public knows and sees it, then you know dang well that HD knows and sees it.
Every year there are about 5 guys that are coming out of high school that are day 1 difference makers. May surprise some when I say it isn't always the top 5 rated kids. For example, look at Flag as compared to Ian or Drake, all 3 were 5 stars from the same class but the Nipple ranked what 29 or so had a mush better season than did Ian or Drake. For the most part, over the last 10yrs or so duke and Ky to a lesser extent has been to have their pick of the real difference making guys. Why, well a lot of it is because duke had a strong NIL program well before the NCAA said it was OK, we all know it, the NCAA knew it to they just did nothing about it. UNC got very few of these real difference making talents while duke and Ky got multiple top 10 guys in classes?
UNC didn't get those guys because we were bringing guys to develop over time, we didn't want to risk getting caught up in the dark money stuff going on nor did we want to risk not hitting a grand slam every season having to get the right 5 star guys playing to that 5 star level. So duke and Ky get the branding that they put guys in the league better than any other program. No matter that the guys they were getting to the NBA were guys any coach in the country would as well. Both those programs were very good at getting a big time talent and having that guy recruit other big time talents, come join me at duke and we will win a natty together before we go directly to the league. Look right now, duke has 3 freshmen guys that will go lottery in the next draft and we have maybe Drake going some place second round?
Pretty sure the 700k was Lubins share of the NIL collective! Drake’s wasn’t coming from the collective! It was from a donor that was going to give a big chunk of cash to Drake if he came back! That same donor/donors would not give that money to Stoj apparently! Even if we had the $700k in the collective on top of Lubin’s $…it wouldn’t have been near enough! This was my understanding that I gathered!
Roy also recruited (or ended up with) talent that wasn't quite ready and developed them.
Development may be less important now, but even in a world where few of your players will stick around, you still need to be able to develop them while you have them.
The coming season will be a referendum on that. Not sure you can say that yet.
There are kids with great upside who are ready to go . . . and kids with great upside who are not ready to go.
K got more of the first kind; Roy got more of the second kind.
In a world where kids stick around for 3-4 years, those 2 recruiting strategies yield similar win profiles, other things being equal.
In a world where kids are not sticking around, K's recruiting strategy works better.
A coach who recruits OADs needs to excel at getting the parts to fit, more so than at player development. A coach who recruits players who stick around needs both to develop and to get the parts to fit.
At first Hubert looked like a good recruiter - of both freshmen and portal players. And when they fit, we did well. But now it's less clear that Hubert is a top recruiter. And if last year taught us anything, it's that getting the parts to fit may not be his strength. A fluke? A bad year? I think next season will clarify that. The parts he has now seem to fit better already, but who knows what we'll see during the season?
For UNC basketball, any coach can seem to be a great recruiter because the program recruits itself. What we are seeing with Hubert is that players now are no longer being wowed just by the program. Instead they re looking at the new money issues plus how the they see Hubert as a coach who can get them to conference championships and the Final Four. And it seems that Hubert may be seen as less than top notch. That perception will not change unless Hubert can take less than the BEST talent NATIONALLY and win something big.
I never realized you were into that new age hippy dippy mumbo jumbo.
Good info if true (and I have no reason to doubt you!). Thanks. You're my boy blue!!!😂
That donor or donors should raise the offer to Drake. How high would it need to be to get Drake out of the draft?
I'll throw in $10.
Ya know about the guy that got lost looking for a forest, he kept running in to trees? Sometimes the answers you are looking for are right in front of your face but that is the last place we tend to look.
When I was at Dish, know what was maybe the most common problem our techs saw on a service call? Some one had unplugged the main unit, you would be amazed at how often guys would show up and all they had to do was plug the unit back in. We had to actually teach our guys to not just plug it back in, to actually waste some time, act like you are doing something before they plugged the unit back up. If we didn't do that the customer would actually get pissed off, they were mad at themselves but took it out on our reps.
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