Andy Katz' "question" to Frank Martin and Martin's response

[TarHeelNation11]

My respect for Frank Martin has gone up a ton since this time Sunday, not just because of his win over Duke, but also his demeanor/actions/words after the win. And then I saw this today and my respect for him has risen even further. The below clip needs no introduction nor explanation from me:



Thoughts?

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Would just like to add that IMHO, Andy Katz is the perfect embodiment of everything that's wrong with sports journalism these days (when they go beyond just talking sports). He and writers/on-air personalities like him think they are the moral compass of the nation. They think that it is their responsibility to subject listeners/readers to their world view because their world view is the correct one. It's such startling arrogance.

I'm not zeroing in on the battle flag issue when I make this statement. I'm speaking big picture. Whether it's race, economics, 'white guilt,' religion, et al., these sports personalities think they are the moral compass and need to loudly and incessantly beat their drum and extol their views.

What in the heck does the presence of protesters have to do with Frank Martin? Not a damn thing.

 

[strummingram]

Katz reminds me of Costas griping about the Redskins name. Costas said Redskins for his entire life, and it was never in a derogatory context. Then, suddenly, someone said it was "wrong" and he goes on a tirade on TV after a game deriding the team. Phil Simms made the comment, that same year, that he would never use it again. Well, he started using it again.

The Confederate Flag is not exactly the same thing. But, it's still a controversial issue. The Rebel Flag is just a Rebel Flag to some people. To others, it always means that you want black people to go back to being slaves and being inferior members of society.

There was a cool documentary about Lynyrd Skynyrd that I recorded and posted a you tube video when the flag issue came up. Skynyrd used to drape it behind them in concert.

 

[strummingram]

Would just like to add that IMHO, Andy Katz is the perfect embodiment of everything that's wrong with sports journalism these days (when they go beyond just talking sports). He and writers/on-air personalities like him think they are the moral compass of the nation. They think that it is their responsibility to subject listeners/readers to their world view because their world view is the correct one. It's such startling arrogance.

I'm not zeroing in on the battle flag issue when I make this statement. I'm speaking big picture. Whether it's race, economics, 'white guilt,' religion, et al., these sports personalities think they are the moral compass and need to loudly and incessantly beat their drum and extol their views.

What in the heck does the presence of protesters have to do with Frank Martin? Not a damn thing.

Who raised a Rebel Flag, and where??? Was it in celebration of the win or something?

I'm wondering how long before they dynamite Stone Mountain's sculptures off the side.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Katz reminds me of Costas griping about the Redskins name. Costas said Redskins for his entire life, and it was never in a derogatory context. Then, suddenly, someone said it was "wrong" and he goes on a tirade on TV after a game deriding the team. Phil Simms made the comment, that same year, that he would never use it again. Well, he started using it again.

The Confederate Flag is not exactly the same thing. But, it's still a controversial issue. The Rebel Flag is just a Rebel Flag to some people. To others, it always means that you want black people to go back to being slaves and being inferior members of society.

There was a cool documentary about Lynyrd Skynyrd that I recorded and posted a you tube video when the flag issue came up. Skynyrd used to drape it behind them in concert.

View embedded media

Excellent poast and you reminded me of something I tried to say but failed. You're dead on with the Costas (and many others) contrived anger over the name "Redskins" example. All these sports personalities jump in on what they perceive to be the "correct" side of an issue and then relentlessly pound that viewpoint and make it into a story when it isn't one. And then they ask players and coaches about it and get pissed off when the player/coach either doesn't answer, doesn't know what they're talking about, or even worse, disagrees with the leading question.

Specifically, when you said "The Rebel Flag is just a Rebel Flag to some people. To others, it always means that you want black people to go back to being slaves and being inferior members of society" it reminded me of this:

Katz just assumes the displaying/wearing/owning/flying a battle flag is "antagonistic." Frank Martin rightly called him out on his hypocrisy. I guess what irritates me the most about people like Katz is how easily they fall prey to group think. They jump right in on the (usually) liberal/white guilt/PC stance on all issues and then continuously make it known that anyone who disagrees with that line of thinking is an idiot. I don't know if any of you know this guy because he mostly covers soccer now, but Grant Wahl is another reporter who is the exact same as Katz, Costas, and others.

Who raised a Rebel Flag, and where??? Was it in celebration of the win or something?

It was like... 12 people who waved one in protest, outside the Bon Secours Arena over the weekend to protest that it was taken down over the state capitol -- in their opinion -- partly just to get sporting events to come to South Carolina.

 

[tarheel0910]

My respect for Frank Martin has gone up a ton since this time Sunday, not just because of his win over Duke, but also his demeanor/actions/words after the win. And then I saw this today and my respect for him has risen even further. The below clip needs no introduction nor explanation from me:

View embedded media

Thoughts?

Great response and it was nice to see Katz get caught off guard when he didn't give the PC answer. I don't think that would have gone over very well at UNC. I don't really know if little Carolina is as liberal as UNC, so I wonder how they are going to react to it.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Great response and it was nice to see Katz get caught off guard when he didn't give the PC answer. I don't think that would have gone over very well at UNC. I don't really know if little Carolina is as liberal as UNC, so I wonder how they are going to react to it.

@gteeitup could speak better to the overall campus vibe of SCar than I. While most colleges have a liberal tint, you'd be surprised (at least, as a juxtaposition with our time spent at UNC) how conservative UGA's campus is. And from the limited time I've spent on SCar's campus, it strikes me as a very similar feel. I'm sure they love Martin's response.

And I agree re: Katz' reaction. He even tried to bow up at first and forcefully coax the expected PC answer, and Martin wasn't having it.

 

[tarheel0910]

Who raised a Rebel Flag, and where??? Was it in celebration of the win or something?

I'm wondering how long before they dynamite Stone Mountain's sculptures off the side.

There are a lot of people down here who want to get rid of that sculpture. It will pop up as a story every year about people wanting to see it taken off.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

There are a lot of people down here who want to get rid of that sculpture. It will pop up as a story every year about people wanting to see it taken off.

But it will never happen. Outside of Atlanta, Georgia is far too conservative (you can read this as "racist" or "traditionalist" or however you want to take it) to let that happen. All you have to do is look at the state's solution for the "state flag crisis." They removed the battle flag portion from the state flag and just turned the whole thing into the original Confederate Stars and Bars, just with the state seal added.

It was a shrewd move that I find hilarious because not many folks are educated enough to know that's what Georgia did.

First national flag of the Confederacy:

Georgia state flag adapted in 2001 as a solution to the old flag.

(sorry for the discrepancy in size... that's just how Wikipedia's pics are)

 

[tarheel0910]

But it will never happen. Outside of Atlanta, Georgia is far too conservative (you can read this as "racist" or "traditionalist" or however you want to take it) to let that happen. All you have to do is look at the state's solution for the "state flag crisis." They removed the battle flag portion from the state flag and just turned the whole thing into the original Confederate Stars and Bars, just with the state seal added.

It was a shrewd move that I find hilarious because not many folks are educated enough to know that's what Georgia did.

I agree that it will never happen. I am surprised that people haven't tried to do more to vandalize it. I guess the PC crowd in Atlanta is afraid of heights.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I agree that it will never happen. I am surprised that people haven't tried to do more to vandalize it. I guess the PC crowd in Atlanta is afraid of heights.

There's probably a myriad of reasons why this hasn't happened, especially when you juxtapose it with the endless episodes in NoVa of transient yankees successfully changing every last school, park, and road name to remove the names of Confederate generals. I have my theories, but I don't want to delve into them here because we've got a good discussion going.

I'd love to hear from someone who disagrees with Martin's remarks or disagrees with anything said thus far.

 

[coolwaterunc]

I never understood the Confederate Flag, and I still don't. I mean, I understand what it meant way back when, but I don't understand the significance of it now. I don't know why people have them, but at the same time, I don't know what the issue is with them either. To me, it's just a flag. It means absolutely nothing of significance to me, so if people want to have them and wave them around, then fine, it's their flag. Nothing worth getting bent out of shape over.

Oh, and Frank Martin is the man. Love that dude.

 

[gteeitup]

@gteeitup could speak better to the overall campus vibe of SCar than I. While most colleges have a liberal tint, you'd be surprised (at least, as a juxtaposition with our time spent at UNC) how conservative UGA's campus is. And from the limited time I've spent on SCar's campus, it strikes me as a very similar feel. I'm sure they love Martin's response.

And I agree re: Katz' reaction. He even tried to bow up at first and forcefully coax the expected PC answer, and Martin wasn't having it.

you're right, more conservative than georgia.

 

[strummingram]

But it will never happen. Outside of Atlanta, Georgia is far too conservative (you can read this as "racist" or "traditionalist" or however you want to take it) to let that happen. All you have to do is look at the state's solution for the "state flag crisis." They removed the battle flag portion from the state flag and just turned the whole thing into the original Confederate Stars and Bars, just with the state seal added.

It was a shrewd move that I find hilarious because not many folks are educated enough to know that's what Georgia did.

First national flag of the Confederacy:

Georgia state flag adapted in 2001 as a solution to the old flag.

(sorry for the discrepancy in size... that's just how Wikipedia's pics are)

That state flag thing always makes me laugh! They got rid of the battle flag part, and wound up with the First National Flag with the seal, and no one seems to be bothered now. It's all visual perception, I guess. Most people still mistake "The Stars and Bars" with the Battle Flag.

 

[tazki]

Just a few idiots trying to get attention and try to deflect from what was a very successful weekend for the city of Greenville

 

[strummingram]

There are a lot of people down here who want to get rid of that sculpture. It will pop up as a story every year about people wanting to see it taken off.

Well, I can understand WHY people are potentially offended or bothered by it. I don't want to get into a brawl about "Why they fought the Civil War", but, if you remove African slavery from the landscape, it doesn't happen. If's and But's being candy and nuts...

There is always going to be a different connection to that war by the South. If they remove the guys from Stone Mountain, then I want the 4 European-descent heads knocked off of Mt. Rushmore, too!

 

[strummingram]

I think a lot of people want Southern people to feel a sense of shame about that part of their heritage, similar to what they assume Germans feel about the Nazi regime. I'm just speculating, of course.

 

[gteeitup]

If they remove the guys from Stone Mountain, then I want the 4 European-descent heads knocked off of Mt. Rushmore, too!

you're scorching some earth here.

 

[tarheel0910]

I think a lot of people want Southern people to feel a sense of shame about that part of their heritage, similar to what they assume Germans feel about the Nazi regime. I'm just speculating, of course.

I would agree with that. One part of his comment I thought was funny was when he said people in New England have that flag too. It was obvious that Katz was trying to blame it on southern rednecks and make the inference that the south is full of racist. You could tell he was surprised when Martin said it wasn't unique to the south.

 

[strummingram]

you're scorching some earth here.

I wouldn't have carved them into the rock to begin with.

 

[strummingram]

I would agree with that. One part of his comment I thought was funny was when he said people in New England have that flag too. It was obvious that Katz was trying to blame it on southern rednecks and make the inference that the south is full of racist. You could tell he was surprised when Martin said it wasn't unique to the south.

Ignorance and prejudice is found all over the world.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

you're scorching some earth here.

Au contraire! Jefferson was a slave-owner. Blast homeboy's head off of Mt. Rushmore and do it 5 minutes ago!

Tear down the Monticello too and raze the University of Virginia while we're at it.

You know what, even Abe Lincoln made a ton of racist remarks and had a pretty racist view of blacks and what their place in society should be after emancipation. Bulldoze the Lincoln Memorial too.

 

[Blue2010]

I never understood the Confederate Flag, and I still don't. I mean, I understand what it meant way back when, but I don't understand the significance of it now. I don't know why people have them, but at the same time, I don't know what the issue is with them either. To me, it's just a flag. It means absolutely nothing of significance to me, so if people want to have them and wave them around, then fine, it's their flag. Nothing worth getting bent out of shape over.

Oh, and Frank Martin is the man. Love that dude.

Same. I would venture to bet the majority of the people who openly promote the confederate flag are just doing so for the attention. I mean, they are losing NASCAR to 'the man' so they need something to cling to, after all.

 

[heelbent]

I have spoken with Frank on a couple of different occasions; once at a leadership conference at Fort Jackson and again at my cousin's home in Columbia during a holiday event. I found him him to be very straightforward and just as intense in person as he appears on the sidelines. During the Jackson event I kidded him about being at the wrong Carolina, and he responded that he wasn't aware there was an opening at the other, lol.

When I saw him again at Ray's house I was pleasantly surprised when he remembered my name and introduced me to his lovely wife, Anya. They were pulled away almost immediately but they both seemed to be genuinely nice people.

Wish I had more, but that's it.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I kidded him about being at the wrong Carolina, and he responded that he wasn't aware there was an opening at the other, lol.

Savage lol.

 

[gunslingerdick]

While most colleges have a liberal tint, you'd be surprised (at least, as a juxtaposition with our time spent at UNC) how conservative UGA's campus is.

[USER=262]

VT is the most conservative campus I've been on in recent memory (outside of Liberty University). That's their one saving grace.

As far as the interview, I too like Frank Martin better today than I did yesterday.[/user]

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I don't really know if little Carolina is as liberal as UNC

I don't think Ted "The Liberal Lion" Kennedy was as liberal as UNC.

It was a shrewd move that I find hilarious because not many folks are educated enough to know that's what Georgia did.

I find this hilarious as well. People like that just hear something is offensive to some "at risk (lol)" group and demand something is done - without regard as to whether the eventual solution is better or has any collateral damage.

The funny (yet sad) thing is that people waving a confederate flag around gets certain groups in an uproar, and they demand it be taken down. Yet if people were waving ISIS flags around those same groups would be defending it as free speech.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Just because a group of idiots choose to use a flag doesnt make the flag the problem, otherwise we would have to remove this one!

Stupid people are just going to be stupid, you cant fix that!