Bagley out for a month???
- Thread starter MRUNC
- Start date
Comments all over the place on the Duke board, but I selfishly kind of like this one: “Some comments on Twitter that it’s possibly worse than they are letting on..and sources have him out till the ACC Tourny or possibly the year because his family wants him to sit for the draft....and get healthy....”
My source (which is me), is that he is still recovering from our Heels giving him and his dookies the business and needs more time to heal fully as he’s never seen TEAM basketball, better yet true Carolina basketball played before.
Probably has eye strain from all that studying.
They may actually be better without him. He's a ball-stopper black-hole on offense, and other than blocking some shots doesn't play a lick o' defense. He's a major talent and they lose offensive rebounding but it forces the Rat to actually play more guys
Beat me to it, they sure look like they play better without him. 3-0 with one of those wins being against Sparty.
Putting the rivalry aside, I hope he makes a quick and full recovery. I never want to see anyone get hurt. Plus, it means a lot more when we beat Duke at full strength.
Frankly I am still amazed this kid is IN college at this point How the H did vader GET this kid in again??? Some kind of cockamamie summer classes.... that is a YEAR'S worth of school work and POOF he gets in to DOOK?? OK........
I get a huge laugh at the sanctimonious BS from the dookies about Carolina the "cheats" and blah blah balh they prattle
Hey dbags LOOK at your own glass house you pack of lemming like dimwits
Oh BTW Lance Thomas says hi and thanks so much for the 8 year cover up of his $70K illegal and title ending scam back in 2010
Coach Vader sure knows how to run that whole university
I get a huge laugh at the sanctimonious BS from the dookies about Carolina the "cheats" and blah blah balh they prattle
Hey dbags LOOK at your own glass house you pack of lemming like dimwits
Oh BTW Lance Thomas says hi and thanks so much for the 8 year cover up of his $70K illegal and title ending scam back in 2010
Coach Vader sure knows how to run that whole university
He took Tripper out of the offense I didn't watch the game last night but did read that they played Duke ball of old with a raining of 3 pointers much of the game. So K is sitting him to try and save his season my guess is there is more of a TEAM and CHEMISTRY problem than an injury. Tripper don't play well with Bagley
All true. If this duke team stuck around 2-3 more years, they'd certainly be better with bagley. But as it stands now, it's apparent that K has had troubled blending the team and IMO, they look better without Bagley. I completely agree that he's a ball stopper but it's just as much his teammates' fault as it is his. They stand around and watch bagley do his thing instead of running some kind of offense.
This is the issue with OAD players that I and a few others here have been attempting to articulate for some time.
IDK why anyone surprise. OADs became the craze because of 2 national championship teams. One that I doubt would have won, if it wasn't for a "injured PG wrist". The other luck up because that 39-1 Kentucky team that had a lot of Soph. mix with their freshman lost to a veteran Wisc. team. Media and fans forgot about the make up of all the other national championship teams.
UNC had the original super class(Lawson, Wright, Ellington). It sill took them 2 years to make the final four and another year to win the big dance.
UK, dook, media and some fans think they can just put OAD 5 star class freshman together every year, roll the basketballs out, and win the whole dance. No, you still need to blend and recruit the correct pieces for your team. It's still going to take that team time to gel.
UNC had the original super class(Lawson, Wright, Ellington). It sill took them 2 years to make the final four and another year to win the big dance.
UK, dook, media and some fans think they can just put OAD 5 star class freshman together every year, roll the basketballs out, and win the whole dance. No, you still need to blend and recruit the correct pieces for your team. It's still going to take that team time to gel.
True to a very large extent.
And funny... some on here tell us (over and over) that winning basketball is all about recruit rankings and how many of these elite guys you can bring in at once. At some point though, ya hafta put an actual basketball team on the floor and play hoops. Fit, chemistry, roles, etc. don't come with Rivals or 24/7 rankings.
Case in point is kentucky right about now. Bunch o' ranked guys and not a legit 2-Guard on the squad. Running a lineup with a PG and four Forwards is not a winning proposition (as we found out in 2014-15 when we were only any good when JB came in to play with Marcus).
And as you said, I think it's very fair to point out that Tripper's game has been negatively affected (poor baby) by playing in what is, by the dook standard system at least, a non-traditional lineup. Hell, I definitely hope Bagley starts when we play them.
I hope he starts as well K don't know how to play a traditional 2 big man team Tripper was trying to facilitate Bagley and Carter both and it was taking away from his game. Duval can't do it he to worried about making himself shine. They are a drive and kick team and with two trees clocking the lane they just stood around on outside looking at each other. I bet you have seen the last of the two top bigs playing together at DOOK
Pass whatever you guys are smoking if you actually think Dook is better without Bagley. They've played 2 games without him and looked good against 2 teams that will likely not make the tourney. No one on that team plays defense so the defense argument is irrelevant. Also, if they aren't making shots and fall behind to a team imagine how much worse it will be when they dont have a guy they can feed in the paint and score at a 65% clip. Not to mention Carter's production will slip too since he goes from having the worst of the two big men on the other team guarding him to now having the best big man guarding him. We looked really good without Cam the first few games of the season and then played bad his first couple games, would anyone really try to convince me that right now we'd be better without him?
I'm smoking basketball reality. They only beat MSU earlier because Tripper was heat-checking and carried them that one night. They look much more dook-like with only one Big. That's K's system and that's what they're geared for.
If I’m Bagley’s parents, I shut him down. He was always going to be a OAD, so why jeopardize $33 mil as the 1st pick?
Correct. he threw up a bunch of 3's that night that havent gone in since. It wouldnt be the first time Dook has won a National Championsip in November. lol. Do you honestly think they would beat Sparty if they played tonight with or without Bagley? This isn't Larry Drew where there is an obviously better replacement on the bench and a clear case of addition by subtraction, we're talking about maybe the 1st pick in the NBA draft. There's no way you can tell me Dook has a better chance of beating a Nova, MSU, UVa, Arizona, etc in the tourney without MBIII
I am smoking some of this!!! Just watch and see, how many times have u ever seen a DOOK team play with two bigs??? They are a drive kick and shoot and set screens for shooters team!! The quicker they can get rid of Bagley and Carter the better off they are now can they die by the three sure they have many times
I'm very simply saying that you can be a 20 and 10 guy and help your team in the process, OR you can be a 20 and 10 guy and hurt it if that comes outside the system or you become a black hole. When he's out, they're more dangerous from 3, they have more lanes for the dribble-drive stuff, and Carter gets more touches.
Problem is, K hasn't really gone small since Bagley has been out. Duke is still playing 2 bigs (Carter/Bolden and then yesterday was mainly Carter/DeLaurier).
Just my .02 but aren't dook's guards a tad bit over rated? I am talking from a 3 pt situation. Saw them heave some last night that never had a prayer. Not at all like JB's, Kenny's or Luke's shots, they look good from the catch...dook's kids love to dribble, sometimes drive but more often it is the jab, then step back shot. Carter looked okay. Poor Disgrayson has lost his what ever he had...he looked very average at times last night.
Trent is good at 3 point shooting and is our best. Allen is streaky......he had a good game last night scoring 25 and getting hot from deep, but then may go MIA for the next 2-3 games. We really aren't that good of a three pointing shooting team. Our strength this year, ironically, is in our post play. We are a better team with Bagley, but I do agree that Allen has been more aggressive while he's been out and hunting his shot a little more. If we could have him play like that WITH Bagley, it would be great.....remains to be seen if they can figure out how to coexist fully.
Carter had 13 and 13 and Allen had 25 and 6. That's seems much better than "okay" and "average".
what I feared happening might be happening - k realizing that Grayson Allen is the key to their postseason success. Not Bagley. Not Carter. Not Duval. It's Allen. I bet k is thrilled with Bagley needing to be out so he can get Allen going. If Allen gets going and starts seeing a bigger hoop and getting his mojo back, duke jumps back onto the top of the list as teams with best chance of winning the title. And Bagley could sit the rest of the year and still be top 3 in the draft.
But that is the issue. It's incredibly hard to design an offense where your senior guard and your freshman big are both the focal points. So what do you do? cater to the senior guard and ruin your rep of a place where OAD guys go? Or cater to your freshman big and watch your senior guard stand around and wait for the freshman big to do something spectacular?
This, in a nutshell, is the failing of the OAD culture.
My opinion only and yes I could be wrong but since K or Capel or $$$ whoever recruited Bagley and Carter they have to show case them to keep the negative recruiting talk from ruining them with top recruits in the future so Tripper offense took a hit and he took one for K in facilitating Bagley and Carter, K was loosing games with the best team on paper. I still think the injury is more a smoke screen to bench Bagley heck do you really think K is going to just bench him because his season was going in the tank remember his recruiting. The bottom line DOOK is better with Bagley on the bench they run their offense through Allen and Gary Trent also another point Roy would kill teams with these two bigs just imagine what a Bagley and Carter or heck just one of them playing with a stretch 4 Luke Maye this year!!!
I think it's completely possible for 2 good players to coexist. UNC has Berry/Maye........I know you guys want there to be chemistry issues, but I think it's more of them trying to figure out HOW to play together. Allen quickly realized the talent that Bagley is, so he just tends to be more passive and just stand around and watch. He needs to understand that Duke is much better with BOTH of them clicking. I do agree it's part of the OAD culture.......there isn't that time to gel like Berry & Maye have had.
You can bet if this happens K will do whatever it takes to not mess it up and if that means Bagley has to sit or come off the bench to replace Carter and Bolden rots on bench then that is what will happen K is going back to what he knows best and that is not primary post play offense!!!
Of course two great players can coexist. I'm not saying that can't happen. What I'm saying is that the likelihood of an accomplished senior and a celebrated freshman coexisting is very small, especially if that celebrated freshman is the more talented player and has been told since he was 12 that he's the best thing since sliced bread. Berry and Maye can coexist because they've both proven their mettle. They have a mutual respect for the wars they've been through together. A senior Allen and a freshman Bagley don't have that. So there's obviously some second guessing as to who should lead and who should follow.
So you do understand what I'm talking about. This is a side effect of the OAD world. All these side effects seem to be rearing their heads this season. Interesting.
To me them trying to figure it out does lead to chemistry problems and K is running out of time and he will completely turn the roster over next year if u guys get EJ so to try and save what season he has left and make a tournament run then he is going to what he knows and that is not what he put on the floor for the last 20 or so games DOOK is a drive and kick team that lives to shoot the 3 ball your a fan you know that!!!
I agree.
I think the inability to stay in front of opposing guards is more problematic for d00k than streaky perimeter shooting.
