Basketball Recruiting Theory

[carolinablue34]

Okay, so after watching the latest game in which we blow a lead against our arch rivals, I've come to a few conclusions.

The first is, no, I'm not calling for Roy's head. All things considering, he's done a pretty damn good job of coaching this group. But he can only do so much. The fact is, we need talent folks.

JB and Theo leave after this season is over. Nas and Coby will be our only McDonald's All-Americans on the roster. One of the might leave after a year. Fact is, talent wins folks. If we're going to build another championship team, we need two things: another top of the line PG and a top tier big man.

Sterling Manley has the potential to become good, and Garrison can become a solid player, but neither one of them was dependable enough this year and neither one are the kind of talent we need to run the kind of offense Roy likes. We need a top ranked big guy fast. EJ Montgomery comes to mind, but also Will Baker and Armando Bacot.

Whoever the hell it is, talent wins folks. The development and work ethic comes after, but TALENT is what we need. Because next year we're in trouble without either one of the things I just mentioned.

 

[strummingram]

Well... get on the damn stick, boy! Get on the facebooks and tweeter, and tell them to come to the Hill. Don't tell us what "we" need! We ain't Micky D's All-Americans. We're just reading and writing.

 

[dadika13]

What a shock, CB34 is praising Duke after their win...

 

[carolinablue34]

What a shock, CB34 is praising Duke after their win...

Name one part of that post that praises duke

 

[dadika13]

Name one part of that post that praises duke

It's pretty obvious you're saying they have talent and we don't. Which is lunacy in itself.

 

[coryfly]

We have talent coming in next year. Two of those guys could be elite level players. Talent down low is where we have struggled this year. It isn't like everyone doesn't realize we are weak in the frontcourt. Roy has tried to get guys down there. I'm not sure what else people want besides those guys committing, which we have no control over.

 

[tarheel0910]

Unless we get a surprise commitment at PG, then I think we are seriously in danger of missing the tournament next year.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Unless we get a surprise commitment at PG, then I think we are seriously in danger of missing the tournament next year.

Not a fan of Coby or Leaky?

I honestly expect us to be better next year than this year. But that assumes that Roy starts one of them at PG instead of 7th. Although now as I type that out, I realize how stupid I am to think that he'd be willing to start a freshman over a junior at PG.

 

[Raising Heel]

It's pretty obvious you're saying they have talent and we don't. Which is lunacy in itself.

All he's saying is that they have more talent. I'm not sure that's even debatable.

 

[tarheel0910]

Not a fan of Coby or Leaky?

I honestly expect us to be better next year than this year. But that assumes that Roy starts one of them at PG instead of 7th. Although now as I type that out, I realize how stupid I am to think that he'd be willing to start a freshman over a junior at PG.

Neither one of them are really a PG, so no I am not a fan of a freshman SG or freshman forward playing point guard. We have no true PG next year in a system that depends on PG play more than any other position.

 

[carolinablue34]

It's pretty obvious you're saying they have talent and we don't. Which is lunacy in itself.

I’m saying they have more. And we are lucky they don’t stick around longer.

Fact is, besides 2011-12 and 2015-16 they’ve had us in that department.

We need the talented big men again. And a true PG like Hagans.

 

[dadika13]

I’m saying they have more. And we are lucky they don’t stick around longer.

Fact is, besides 2011-12 and 2015-16 they’ve had us in that department.

We need the talented big men again. And a true PG like Hagans.

You know where we had them in 2016-17, banners.

 

[dadika13]

Also, you really expect a huge talent surge the year after a natty? You were probably the guy that thought we'd never win again in 2006 and 2010.

You win titles, you lose talent. You reload (with guys like Little, Coby, Leaky).

Stop being so obsessed with Duke.

 

[strummingram]

Also, you really expect a huge talent surge the year after a natty? You were probably the guy that thought we'd never win again in 2006 and 2010.

You win titles, you lose talent. You reload (with guys like Little, Coby, Leaky).

Stop being so obsessed with Duke.

I don't think CB34 is obsessed with dook at all. I think he'd like to see how well we fare witht he same level of "talent" that K rounds-up every year. He wants UNC to win.

I find it interesting how they can have SO MUCH "talent" and yet the end result isn't all that great, from my standpoint. K has turned into an OAD mill, even more so than Kentucky. I thought it showed just how well Roy Williams could recruit and coach to make it to the NCAA final two years in a row without a bag full of OAD's and lottery picks, and while the NCAA dragged its feet to affect the recruiting because they knew they had no case for the AFAM situation.

K made it in 2015, but that team had some vets on it, too. Their Senior Night in the years to come will be lacking. Unless Jack White and O'Donnell soon become the new Grayson Allen. To me, these OAD's are not helping the rivalry. The rivalry needs "romance" and guys that spend their 4 years facing-off and building-up a desire to win. These OAD's are showboats and probably know little, if anything, about the longevity of the rivalry- Brown vs. Heymann, JR Reid vs. Danny Ferry, Montross vs. Laettner, May vs. Williams, Hansbrough vs. Henderson, etc.. I hope K is enjoying his choice to pad his stats.

Am I obsessed with dook? Sure, I am. They're my rival.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Also, you really expect a huge talent surge the year after a natty? You were probably the guy that thought we'd never win again in 2006 and 2010.

You win titles, you lose talent. You reload (with guys like Little, Coby, Leaky).

Stop being so obsessed with Duke.

Amen, brother.

So duke has more talent. Great. That will probably get them a second round exit again because their great talent doesn't know how to play through adversity. That great talent is mentally fragile. That great talent always ends up as a big disappointment.

I'll take B+ talent that plays hard, plays together and gives max effort. @carolinablue34 will probably say, "why can't we take A+ talent that works hard, plays together and gives max effort?" And to that I say, "they don't exist." Because if they're that good, they've been coddled and pampered and haven't had to fight for anything.

We're doing fine. What is wrong with some of you?

 

[carolinablue34]

Also, you really expect a huge talent surge the year after a natty? You were probably the guy that thought we'd never win again in 2006 and 2010.

You win titles, you lose talent. You reload (with guys like Little, Coby, Leaky).

Stop being so obsessed with Duke.

As a matter of fact I wasn’t worried in either one of those years. For two reasons. 1) we had pieces in those years to build on 2) we had amazing talent in line for the following season.

We have Nas, Coby and leaky. But next year we will not have a solid, natural PG and or an impact big man. We had both or were in line for both in 06 and 10.

 

[coryfly]

I think Coby will be pretty solid as a PG next year. Leaky is more of a natural PG but he is so tall not sure what you do with him. Maybe use him like Theo but he isn't nearly as athletic. Johnson coming back would help a lot but I would be extremely surprised if that happened. We need one of the bigs to really emerge or to land some better guys down low. I think they can be efficiently decent though. Obviously, hope Maye is back. He did say in a recent interview he would look at things when the season was over if he was getting interest.

 

[strummingram]

I think Coby will be pretty solid as a PG next year. Leaky is more of a natural PG but he is so tall not sure what you do with him. Maybe use him like Theo but he isn't nearly as athletic. Johnson coming back would help a lot but I would be extremely surprised if that happened. We need one of the bigs to really emerge or to land some better guys down low. I think they can be efficiently decent though. Obviously, hope Maye is back. He did say in a recent interview he would look at things when the season was over if he was getting interest.

Is Playtek a PG? Maybe he can improve?

 

[coryfly]

Is Playtek a PG? Maybe he can improve?

I think he can come in and be a guy who can score some for us. He is brutal defensively though. I don't think he will ever be a PG. He may have to play some at times but he won't ever really be one if that makes sense.

I thought Seventh would be ok next year but the injuries have just destroyed him. I am really high on Coby though. I think he can at least be pretty decent even as a freshman. Someone on another board compared him to Lilliard and I think that is a good one regarding his potential and the way he plays.

 

[gunslingerdick]

While I will chastise @carolinablue34 for his constant panicking about recruiting and his obsession with duke, I agree with him wholeheartedly that we need a PG for next year. Coby should not be that. In fact, I fear that attempting to learn our system from the PG spot will thwart his development as a scorer and shooter and may even rock his confidence if he isn't immediately successful. Leaky is in no way ready for that role and Seventh has been a major disappointment (injuries have played a part of his under-development). We need someone. If Hagens is going to reclassify, Roy should be all over him like a cheap suit. He's a pass first PG with good size and length. Looks like an average athlete but he's a committed defender and team guy - not one of these coddled OAD type mentalities. He doesn't look to "show out". He looks like a good floor leader. With guys around him that can score - Maye, Cam, Coby, Nas, Sterling, he could look really good for us.

I don't know his status and I don't know if we're a real player for him. If not, Roy has to look at a grad transfer. We cannot go into next year with Seventh and Baby Jet on the depth chart as our PGs. That's a recipe for disaster and a waste of other good talent on the floor.

 

[dadika13]

Listen, I also agree we definitely need a PG next season...I think we're all on board with that one. Even more so because we can't waste all of the other talent around that position.

I don't think our 2018-19 PG is on our team right now. Maybe it's Coby, maybe it's Leaky, maybe it's a grad transfer.

 

[coryfly]

Hagans is an option but not one I think we'll land. I don't know of any grad transfers that are really worth it. I don't disagree we need a true PG, just disagree it is certain doom if we don't land someone else.

 

[nctransplant]

Is Berry a TRUE PG? He isn't leading the team in assist, he doesn't handle the ball more than Theo. I just don't consider Berry a true PG. Marshall, Cota, Lawson, Felton were true point guards.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Is Berry a TRUE PG? He isn't leading the team in assist, he doesn't handle the ball more than Theo. I just don't consider Berry a true PG. Marshall, Cota, Lawson, Felton were true point guards.

No Berry isn't a true PG. But Seventh isn't a true PG or even one who can fake it. In other words, if Seventh is starting next year at any position, I think we're in trouble.

 

[nctransplant]

No Berry isn't a true PG. But Seventh isn't a true PG or even one who can fake it. In other words, if Seventh is starting next year at any position, I think we're in trouble.

I agree with that but my point is that everyone is screaming for a true pg. We haven't had one since Marshall and we've done ok. Coby might can do it. And really Baby Jet has had a whole year of practice plus pretty good genetics so you never know.

 

[carolinablue34]

Are some of you forgetting baby Jet is a walk on and not some 2.0 version of his dad?

 

[nctransplant]

Are some of you forgetting baby Jet is a walk on and not some 2.0 version of his dad?

I have not forgot that and I have absolutely no idea his skill level, still my point is we don't have a true pg now.

 

[dadika13]

And really Baby Jet has had a whole year of practice plus pretty good genetics so you never know.

Oh, we know.

I disagree that JB isn't a true PG. I think he's a true MODERN PG. Ed Cota's and Kendall Marshall's are rare these days. The offense flows completely through him and he's the floor leader.

 

[uncboy10]

Why do we need a traditional point guard?

 

[tarheel0910]

Why do we need a traditional point guard?

Because Roy plans to run the same offense next year, which depends on the PG position.

 

[carolinablue34]

Why do we need a traditional point guard?

Because the system man. Can’t veer away from the system or Carolina basketball as we know it is doomed haha.

In all seriousness, the point guard spot is probably the most important in the game. We all saw what dook was the past two years without a good PG. If we don’t have one for next year, we will struggle.

 

[tarheel0910]

Oh, we know.

I disagree that JB isn't a true PG. I think he's a true MODERN PG. Ed Cota's and Kendall Marshall's are rare these days. The offense flows completely through him and he's the floor leader.

Agreed, he may not be a "traditional" pass first PG, but it takes more than passing to run the system.

 

[tarheel0910]

And please stop with the baby jet crap. Nothing in his high school or college career suggests he will be anything but a spot minute player.

 

[toophly1124]

And please stop with the baby jet crap. Nothing in his high school or college career suggests he will be anything but a spot minute player.

You sound angry. Got a case of the Monday’s?

 

[tarheel0910]

You sound angry. Got a case of the Monday’s?

I'm not angry, I just think it's stupid. There is zero reason to think we are going to get anything out of him.

 

[toophly1124]

I'm not angry, I just think it's stupid. There is zero reason to think we are going to get anything out of him.

Lol ok man

 

[coryfly]

White would definitely be more like Berry than a Marshall but in HS he is a good passer. He is more of a scorer but displays good vision. That doesn't mean he will be a rock star assists guy but for all of Berry's great attributes vision isn't one of them. So in that sense he fits the position at least to some degree. I mean, we are going to take a hit losing Berry. Dude is a four year guy with a ton of experience and success. We have to put someone out there though and I don't see a better option than Coby at this point.

 

[tarheel0910]

White would definitely be more like Berry than a Marshall but in HS he is a good passer. He is more of a scorer but displays good vision. That doesn't mean he will be a rock star assists guy but for all of Berry's great attributes vision isn't one of them. So in that sense he fits the position at least to some degree. I mean, we are going to take a hit losing Berry. Dude is a four year guy with a ton of experience and success. We have to put someone out there though and I don't see a better option than Coby at this point.

Coby might be a good option in a couple of years, but we need a point guard next year. It's the same issue we have this year in the front court. No good depth and little experience with our best post player playing out of position. The only problem is PG in our system is the most important position. Even if Coby is decent, he's still a freshman and we still won't have a lot of depth. Roy's been recruiting too many wings.

 

[coryfly]

Coby might be a good option in a couple of years, but we need a point guard next year. It's the same issue we have this year in the front court. No good depth and little experience with our best post player playing out of position. The only problem is PG in our system is the most important position. Even if Coby is decent, he's still a freshman and we still won't have a lot of depth. Roy's been recruiting too many wings.

Right, but we can't really add a player that isn't there so IMO the discussion is who is best to roll out with the actual options we will more than likely have. If it isn't Coby it is probably Seventh and I'm not sure that is the best option unfortunately.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Because the system man. Can’t veer away from the system or Carolina basketball as we know it is doomed haha.
.

Don’t worry about the system. If we recruit like you want us to, the only system those kids will be able to play is the famed “dribble drive”, or as I like to call it, “terrible, iso, AAU ball.”