Better To Beat Rivals At Full Strength Or Watch Them Burn?

[ThirdGenHeel]

So I'm not a regular poster, but I do read you guys' debates almost daily. With all of these scandals over the past few years and the current craziness that's going on, I've also read rival fan bases' forums here and there. My question is this:

Would you rather beat your rival (i.e. Duke, Kentucky for UNC) at full strength, or revel in them being banned from the postseason, having scholarships and/or wins and titles stripped away, etc.? The reason the UNC/Duke rivalry is the best in sports is because they're both good just about every year. But one of them on probation and that rivalry is severely diminished. I see a lot of calls for other programs to get hit hard here, wanted to get your thoughts.

 

[pln2013]

Long term, I want Duke to be successful (just less successful than us). Ours is the best rivalry in sports, and that's in part because both programs are phenomenal.

Short term, I want Duke to have a few down years and K to retire in disgrace.

 

[Tom79]

And NVSU is toast regarding Dennis Smith. So that is too bad for them as they were getting better again.
dook? I would like to take some of the sheen off of their perception as the "great program."

 

[soap - new and improved]

I am hoping and believing we are clean, no I don't count the nonsense yoohoo spurts listed.

I was 100% sure Dennis Smith to the woofies made no sense. I was fully satisfied there was cheating/payments involved.

Cue obligatory Conan Quote

"Conan! What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies -- See them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!"

 

[DeuceManJones]

Kentucky, dook, Kansas and Arizona have been stealing recruits from Roy because he wouldn't "play ball" since John Wall. He would've been a Tar Heel. Brandon Ingram would've been a Tar Heel. How does Julius Randle's mom adore Roy more than any other coach, yet we aren't even a FINALIST for him? Arizona takes big man after big man from us. Andrew Wiggins sat in the Dean Dome stone-faced because he knew he was always going to Kansas.

I say burn, baby, burn.

We're Carolina - we can find new rivals.

 

[DSouthr]

So I'm not a regular poster, but I do read you guys' debates almost daily. With all of these scandals over the past few years and the current craziness that's going on, I've also read rival fan bases' forums here and there. My question is this:

Would you rather beat your rival (i.e. Duke, Kentucky for UNC) at full strength, or revel in them being banned from the postseason, having scholarships and/or wins and titles stripped away, etc.? The reason the UNC/Duke rivalry is the best in sports is because they're both good just about every year. But one of them on probation and that rivalry is severely diminished. I see a lot of calls for other programs to get hit hard here, wanted to get your thoughts.

Honestly, I will take a win no matter how it comes, I want us to beat duke by 50 every time we play them. Look at Ky for example, they are always screaming about their wins record, they sure don't discount it even thou it comes from the historically basketball weak SEC.

 

[uncfan in ky]

As much stuff as I’ve heard & read about Carolina being “dirty” over the AFAM crap..... LET THEM ALL BURN!!!!!!

 

[montana_heel]

Don't think that they were too worried when we were losing recruits left and right to them the last few years. Guess I am not a turn the cheek kind of guy. A meal is one thing but money being exchanged in my mind is quite different.

Reading Duke and KU's website and the posters are saying there is nothing to worry about though. Everybody says it is someone else. Shocking.

 

[Archer2]

I agree with Conan.

 

[DSouthr]

Don't think that they were too worried when we were losing recruits left and right to them the last few years. Guess I am not a turn the cheek kind of guy. A meal is one thing but money being exchanged in my mind is quite different.

Reading Duke and KU's website and the posters are saying there is nothing to worry about though. Everybody says it is someone else. Shocking.

Those same folks were 1000% convinced we were going to get hammered, consider the source there. Duke is going to get hit hard, Kansas is going to get drilled extra hard!

 

[ThirdGenHeel]

I do like the idea of the "mystique" of some of these programs being brought down a notch. I just hope Duke/UNC, just as one example, continues to mean something most of the time. Kentucky, eh, I could give a crap about them. And State's not even our rival anymore.

 

[Middle Sound Heel]

I agree with Conan.

Since this thing has been brewing I have thought a lot about this. I hate Dook on the court but honestly I have come to the conclusion that I would not particularly be happy if I found out K or Capel were proven to be actually paying players. I mean would like to think K is better than that truly as a man of character. My gut tells me he is above that. I would honestly be disappointed and not happy if it turns out they paid recruits.

 

[Tom79]

Middle Sound, the difficulty is if the money went directly to Mom & Pops, who knew? Only agent and family. In the Bowen case at "Lewis"ville, the kid never saw the money but his family did. Capel is rumored to be the bag man. But in this case I think any exchange was between other parties, not school or coach or their assistants. What were Carter's "extra benefits"?

 

[DSouthr]

Tom, my friend (mean that by the way) please realize, even more than Roy at UNC, NOTHING NOTHING and I mean NOTHING happens with the duke basketball program that K does not sign off on. Right now K is the GOD of duke athletics, he could have the football coach fired if it so struck him to do so, the AD makes NO decision K is not in approval of. Neither Capel or Nate James did anything that K was NOT aware of.

 

[Middle Sound Heel]

Tom, my friend (mean that by the way) please realize, even more than Roy at UNC, NOTHING NOTHING and I mean NOTHING happens with the duke basketball program that K does not sign off on. Right now K is the GOD of duke athletics, he could have the football coach fired if it so struck him to do so, the AD makes NO decision K is not in approval of. Neither Capel or Nate James did anything that K was NOT aware of.

Dsouth I saw your post above that Dook is going to be hit hard. What do you base that on. I do agree with your other post above that K is in charge of all things Dook. Lots of people speculating Capel is dirty. I just have a very hard time believing that or that like you say K would allow him to get away with any shady antics. I just cant buy it honestly

 

[Archer2]

Teflon Mike and his program will not be touched, regardless of what is found. Never, ever happen.

 

[ThirdGenHeel]

I do hope that when they do sort this mess out and all the programs and staffs are identified, they properly laud the programs and coaches that had continued success without skirting the rules. Any coach or team not implicated in any of these scandals who were consistent winners should have their perception of success amplified 100X.

 

[Tom79]

Tom, my friend (mean that by the way) please realize, even more than Roy at UNC, NOTHING NOTHING and I mean NOTHING happens with the duke basketball program that K does not sign off on. Right now K is the GOD of duke athletics, he could have the football coach fired if it so struck him to do so, the AD makes NO decision K is not in approval of. Neither Capel or Nate James did anything that K was NOT aware of.

Thanks David. I know, as well as this entire board has known for years, who is the most powerful person in Derm. I would not put it past Capel or James to "direct" some of the moving parts such that $$ got to families, without the kids knowledge and especially without soiling the magnificent empire.
I am very curious what Carter's "extra benefits" might have been...

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Capel is clearly dirty and not particularly good at hiding it. ratty was probably a very principled man at one point in his career. At this point, ratty doesn't even do all of the coaching since he can't seem to connect with these new types of recruits.His military background is not conducive to coddling! Capel does a good deal of the recruiting and conferencing with the players now. I hate it, but I really believe ratty is selling it all out for a lasting legacy.

That being said, I for one want the entire Big 4 to be good so I can see spectacular bball anytime NC is involved! I want to whip them like they stole something, but I want the games to be competitive!

 

[gobblercalls]

My answer to the OP is that I would rather see titles vacated, wins vacated, scholarships taken away, and if at all possible the death sentence for dook bball. I would like to see K and all of his asswipe fans ashamed to go out in public. I would like to see cheating replace wins and titles as the rat's legacy. There is nothing except physical harm I wouldn't wish on that crowd. After that I would want to beat them by 50 every game for years. I want them to be so bad that the bunch of bandwagon nitwits that call themselves fans switch to being Virginia fans so that they have a chance to b eat us!

 

[RoseHeel]

Dook will be fine in either of those scenarios in the long term.

So why not have them suffer a few years with potential NCAA sanctions looming over their heads and have their recruiting hit as we did? It'd give us back a couple of those losses we had thanks to negative recruiting from them (and others).

 

[DSouthr]

Dsouth I saw your post above that Dook is going to be hit hard. What do you base that on. I do agree with your other post above that K is in charge of all things Dook. Lots of people speculating Capel is dirty. I just have a very hard time believing that or that like you say K would allow him to get away with any shady antics. I just cant buy it honestly

Well pretty easy honestly, Bowen for example, ya hear in the neighborhood of an asking price of $100K plus to get his commit, he was not even a top 10 kid. Now not saying all top 10 kids got paid but it is as well very hard to believe that a top 10-20 rated player can get around 100K and NONE of the top 10 took anything. Typically it is like salaries in pro sports, the higher the rated player the more they get paid. I think common sense would dictate that the majority of them are going to get paid and the higher ranked, the greater game changer they are seen to be the higher the offer price. Now that is the common sense approach.

There are whispers that are always surrounding kids, you see many times Roy will start out recruiting a kid and all the sudden pulls off. Roy just is not going to play the pay for play game and that is most especially true when UNC as has been the case, under a NCAA microscope.

 

[Grayhead]

K is in his final years. I would love to see his image tarnished forever. Would be real funny if the busted him back far enough for him to loose his 1000 wins. It would almost be better than beating them in the championship game for me.

 

[Grayhead]

K is in his final years. I would love to see his image tarnished forever. Would be real funny if they busted him back far enough for him to loose his 1000 wins. It would almost be better than beating them in the championship game for me.

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

I completely agree with Roseheel here. Let the guilty parties go thru several years of negative recruiting and reporting with possible sanctions constantly hanging over their heads and suffer where it hurts the most at the ticket counter.

 

[franklin street]

the most powerful person in durham is maceo.

 

[Archer2]

NVSU and d00k can both kiss my arse. After what they've said about us over the last 5 years, I don't care if they ever win another game.