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Black panther

strummingram said:
Look on the bright side @Hark_The_Sound_2010; At least you didn't author this pile of bullshit. You only liked it.
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Care to dispute any of that or are you just doing that thing you do where you say “you’re not interested in having your mind changed”, which we’ve all come to learn means you can’t really refute anything and it’s your way of backing out of the topic yet still attempting to convince yourself that you’re morally superior to everyone else.

strummingram said:
Great. Congratulations on saying you're open to a different understanding. You should be commended. I didn't realize you weren't getting enough recognition for your progressive side.

As I said, I'm not responsible for changing it. You are. Don't blame me. You know, the whole "lead a horse to water" thing.
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Never mind, yep, that’s exactly what you’re doing.
 
gunslingerdick said:
Care to dispute any of that or are you just doing that thing you do where you say “you’re not interested in having your mind changed”, which we’ve all come to learn means you can’t really refute anything and it’s your way of backing out of the topic yet still attempting to convince yourself that you’re morally superior to everyone else.



Never mind, yep, that’s exactly what you’re doing.
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I'm not superior. I'm just different. You chose to use superior. I used different.

I'm not backing-out. I'm still here.
 
gunslingerdick said:
All people have been mistreated at some point in history. No race/civilization has come through history without being enslaved, conquered, pillaged, etc. So why are blacks the ones that appear to claim some monopoly on having been persecuted? I've never heard the idea of reparations with regard to the Irish. Hell, the word "slave" originates from the slavs of eastern Europe who were enslaved by those in the middle and far east. That's literally how the word came to be. The slavs were white.

In addition, I've always found it strange that people make such a big deal out of the fact that Europeans came to America and ran off the native Americans. That's how civilizations are created - by conquering new lands and staking claim. I mean, obviously it sucked for the American Indians and I am sorry for them. But I wouldn't be alive today had my ancestors not done what they did. America would have never been born and never have come to be the greatest, freest most noble civilization the world has ever known. How can people be upset with that? It's how human existence has worked for thousands of years - survival of the fittest, no?
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Here... I'll "dispute it" in a way that you can relate to (I thought I did that initially):

bs2.gif
 
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@Hark_The_Sound_2010 why do you keep saying you shouldn’t have to apologize for what happened to Black people? No one has ever asked/told me I should. I’ve never felt the need to. I certainly sympathize with slavery and the subsequent institutional racism that was rampant for the following 200 years.
 
gunslingerdick said:
That’s what I thought.
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It's one long diatribe of you trying to justify your own bigotry and prejudice. You even double-down on it.

You're basically saying that since Africans weren't smart enough to not get caught, they deserved to be slaves. It's the natural cycle. And, the people you descend from were smarter and craftier. so why should you feel any remorse? You revel in being a douchebag. You always have.
 
strummingram said:
It's one long diatribe of you trying to justify your own bigotry and prejudice. You even double-down on it.

You're basically saying that since Africans weren't smart enough to not get caught, they deserved to be slaves. It's the natural cycle. And, the people you descend from were smarter and craftier. so why should you feel any remorse? You revel in being a douchebag. You always have.
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lol

No moron, that’s not at all what I said. But it’s not surprising that you’re attempting to paint it that way.

What I’m saying is that every race has been enslaved at some point. Are people of Mongolian heritage feeling the need to make amends for their misdeeds against the Slavs? Are Muslims obligated to apologize to all white people of European decent? No. Why not? Because it’s an absurd notion.

As far as my comments on civilization, name a successful civilization that came to be by ways other than conquering? You can’t. American Indians fought and killed each other for supremacy. African tribes still do it. It’s human instinct to fight for the survival and advancement of your people. And again, if our ancestors hadn’t done it, you would not be here. Do you like life? Do you like that you will have left some mark on human history (to the chagrin of most but whatever)? If so, thank Christopher Columbus and the pilgrims.
 
gunslingerdick said:
lol

No moron, that’s not at all what I said. But it’s not surprising that you’re attempting to paint it that way.

What I’m saying is that every race has been enslaved at some point. Are people of Mongolian heritage feeling the need to make amends for their misdeeds against the Slavs? Are Muslims obligated to apologize to all white people of European decent? No. Why not? Because it’s an absurd notion.

As far as my comments on civilization, name a successful civilization that came to be by ways other than conquering? You can’t. American Indians fought and killed each other for supremacy. African tribes still do it. It’s human instinct to fight for the survival and advancement of your people. And again, if our ancestors hadn’t done it, you would not be here. Do you like life? Do you like that you will have left some mark on human history (to the chagrin of most but whatever)? If so, thank Christopher Columbus and the pilgrims.
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More of the same. I'm not painting it any way. I'm simply showing how you come-off in your language to me.

This issue isn't about the Peloponnese or Macedonians. This is about our present-day circumstances. The things that happened very recently in our history. You see, every race wasn't enslaved in our country and our culture. In this country, it was solely black people, of African descent. I don't need to go into detail of what they went through. You keep deflecting with this "my ancestors suffered somewhere along the line" and it's just bullshit. It's you screaming to justify your prejudiced nature. Your ancestors weren't subjected to anything like the African-descent people of this country. Why would you ever go so far as to try and claim some kind of similar circumstance?

You've chosen, as always, to be the white victim who just can't catch a break from these other white people that are oppressing you... in your mind.
 
strummingram said:
More of the same. I'm not painting it any way. I'm simply showing how you come-off in your language to me.

This issue isn't about the Peloponnese or Macedonians. This is about our present-day circumstances. The things that happened very recently in our history. You see, every race wasn't enslaved in our country and our culture. In this country, it was solely black people, of African descent. I don't need to go into detail of what they went through. You keep deflecting with this "my ancestors suffered somewhere along the line" and it's just bullshit. It's you screaming to justify your prejudiced nature. Your ancestors weren't subjected to anything like the African-descent people of this country. Why would you ever go so far as to try and claim some kind of similar circumstance?

You've chosen, as always, to be the white victim who just can't catch a break from these other white people that are oppressing you... in your mind.
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You and I clearly have a different scale of time (although it’s kind of weird because I’ve heard time doesn’t actually exist). But for arguments sake, approximately how many years have to have passed before you would no longer consider the mistreatment of blacks to be “recent”? Let’s say starting tomorrow, life in our country was exactly however you wanted it to be. People from all races were holding hands and kissing each other. From that point on, how long before you’d consider slavery of blacks in America “ancient history”? I’m just trying to get your scale.
 
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gunslingerdick said:
But for arguments sake, approximately how many years have to have passed before you would no longer consider the mistreatment of blacks to be “recent”?
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It will always be recent as long as people like you insist that it was ancient history and act-out accordingly. You haven't even begun to recognize it as recent, so I'm not sure how much longer it will be. That's up to you.


gunslingerdick said:
Let’s say starting tomorrow, life in our country was exactly however you wanted it to be. People from all races were holding hands and kissing each other. From that point on, how long before you’d consider slavery of blacks in America “ancient history”? I’m just trying to get your scale.
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This is more of your deflecting bullshit, and it's not even very creative. What you described hasn't happened, so you're asking for a result from a variable that doesn't exist. But, I'll take a shot and say; As far as "how long", see the above response.
 
strummingram said:
It will always be recent as long as people like you insist that it was ancient history and act-out accordingly. You haven't even begun to recognize it as recent, so I'm not sure how much longer it will be. That's up to you.



This is more of your deflecting bullshit, and it's not even very creative. What you described hasn't happened, so you're asking for a result from a variable that doesn't exist. But, I'll take a shot and say; As far as "how long", see the above response.
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Soooo,...what like a couple months or are we talking centuries? I’m gonna need some numbers. Thanks.
 
Talking about apologizing is kinda silly. I guarantee you most black folks couldn't give two shits about your apologies.

What they would appreciate is more people taking steps to mediate the aggregated disadvantages that come with an entire race of people being enslaved for multiple generations. That doesn't just vanish when you give their children freedom. Wealth is accumulated over multiple generations, and when an entire genetic subcategory of people are enslaved for multiple generations they will suffer from those disadvantages for many generations to come.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and guess they would also appreciate people simply acknowledging that prejudice towards blacks is still very much alive in our society today.
 
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@strummingram

Save yourself the time and trouble. You're debating with the guy who thinks that the use of a Machiavellian villain was an attempt to "blackify" the movie. Apparently Shakespeare was also black.
 
gunslingerdick said:
Soooo,...what like a couple months or are we talking centuries? I’m gonna need some numbers. Thanks.
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You tell me. I'm waiting for you. I don't see you ever changing, so... that's my guess. In fact, you've shown that you prefer going in reverse. Now, you're the victim. Your ancestors were oppressed, so you can empathize with the grandchildren of people who were forced to drink from Colored Only water fountains. Why can't they go back to knowing their place in society and let you have a laugh at their expense without them being offended?

You hold the watch.
 
uncboy10 said:
Talking about apologizing is kinda silly. I guarantee you most black folks couldn't give two shits about your apologies.
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Agreed. Apologizing is for the guilty whitey to feel better about themselves.

uncboy10 said:
What they would appreciate is more people taking steps to mediate the aggregated disadvantages that come with an entire race of people being enslaved for multiple generations. That doesn't just vanish when you give their children freedom. Wealth is accumulated over multiple generations, and when an entire genetic subcategory of people are enslaved for multiple generations they will suffer from those disadvantages for many generations to come.
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I agree with most of that. But I think those steps have been taken and are still taken. So the three questions I would have for you are as follows:
1- how long should society make such steps/concessions before we feel that everyone is on the same playing field?
2- what specific steps could be taken to meet the approval of you and the black the community?
3- do you believe that if appropriate steps are taken for the appropriate amount of time, that eventually, all people will have all the same opportunities and harmony will be achieved?
 
uncboy10 said:
@strummingram

Save yourself the time and trouble. You're debating with the guy who thinks that the use of a Machiavellian villain was an attempt to "blackify" the movie. Apparently Shakespeare was also black.
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I'm fully aware of who I'm conversing. I never know what new territory we'll venture toward, however. In this thread, I've learned that gsd and hark are basing their frustrations of these conditions on the fact that, throughout history, "all races have been oppressed" so why can't black people get over themselves already?
 
strummingram said:
You tell me. I'm waiting for you. I don't see you ever changing, so... that's my guess. In fact, you've shown that you prefer going in reverse. Now, you're the victim. Your ancestors were oppressed, so you can empathize with the grandchildren of people who were forced to drink from Colored Only water fountains. Why can't they go back to knowing their place in society and let you have a laugh at their expense without them being offended?

You hold the watch.
Click to expand...

I love how you just make up shit. You just concoct some feelings in your head based off what you want to think about me and attribute them to people when you don’t like what they have to say. And I can see that our discussion has devolved back to you doing that thing again where you say, “you’re not interested in changing, blah, blah, blah”. So, what’s the point strum? Why do we even enter these exchanges? You and I both should know better at this point.
 
gunslingerdick said:
Agreed. Apologizing is for the guilty whitey to feel better about themselves.



I agree with most of that. But I think those steps have been taken and are still taken. So the three questions I would have for you are as follows:
1- how long should society make such steps/concessions before we feel that everyone is on the same playing field?
2- what specific steps could be taken to meet the approval of you and the black the community?
3- do you believe that if appropriate steps are taken for the appropriate amount of time, that eventually, all people will have all the same opportunities and harmony will be achieved?
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1. As long as it takes.

2. I don't care if its approved by me or the so-called black community. I just want a solution. Virtue signaling to make people think I'm on their side isn't the idea here. I just think we need to solve some social and economic problems pertaining to race. You're trying to use the old religion trick here. I never claimed I had all of the answers, or even some of the answers. I merely pointed out that there is still a problem, and that your answer is the wrong one.

3. Yes I think we can largely provide the same opportunities to most people. Genetic limitations will never allow us to attain any real equality, but we can set up a legal system that ensures that talented people are never prevented from succeeding to the full limits of their potential based on race, gender, or any other immutable characteristic.
 
gunslingerdick said:
Blackify? I didn’t use that word. Is that a real word? I like it.
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gunslingerdick said:
Not surprising in the least. That’s the producers’ attempt to make the movie and star character as black as possible. The only thing they could have done better was cast Wesley Snipes as the panther.

Now I’m starting to get why black folks were so jazzed up about it when it came out. Because I sure as shit didn’t see that same reaction from the black community when Iron Man came out. And isn’t Robert Downey Jr. black? At least 33%.
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Blackify - to make something as black as possible. lol
 
gunslingerdick said:
I love how you just make up shit. You just concoct some feelings in your head based off what you want to think about me and attribute them to people when you don’t like what they have to say. And I can see that our discussion has devolved back to you doing that thing again where you say, “you’re not interested in changing, blah, blah, blah”. So, what’s the point strum? Why do we even enter these exchanges? You and I both should know better at this point.
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You think some magic bell will finally ring when black people finally get even? Good luck.
 
uncboy10 said:
2. I don't care if its approved by me or the so-called black community. I just want a solution. Virtue signaling to make people think I'm on their side isn't the idea here. I just think we need to solve some social and economic problems pertaining to race. You're trying to use the old religion trick here. I never claimed I had all of the answers, or even some of the answers. I merely pointed out that there is still a problem, and that your answer is the wrong one.
.
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Fine. You don’t have the answers. Who does? Or do we just keep throwing shit at the wall until something sticks? Regardless of the problems it may create along the way? There has to be a plan. There is a plan for anything successful in life. If there is no plan, we are just spinning our wheels in hopes to appease someone.
 
ticket2ride04 said:
@Hark_The_Sound_2010 why do you keep saying you shouldn’t have to apologize for what happened to Black people? No one has ever asked/told me I should. I’ve never felt the need to. I certainly sympathize with slavery and the subsequent institutional racism that was rampant for the following 200 years.
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No one has ever explicitly asked me to apologize either (implicitly, sure, but not explicitly). The only reason I've said "I shouldn't have to" in this thread is because of this comment, where Strum expresses his belief that he should have to:

strummingram said:
It's more of a feeling of obligation to offer sort of a "perpetual apology" for what our ancestors did.
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I feel differently, so I've stated that.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
This is a logical fallacy. In this scenario it would perpetually be recent, because anytime it became ancient, it would automatically revert to recent on the basis of someone saying it was indeed ancient.
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Okay... so allegory/metaphor is lost on you... or you're just being argumentative for kicks. It has to be literal terms. There is no literal answer. You keep feeling like you're the one being inconvenienced and the situation will stay the same. The element of time has been removed now.
 
gunslingerdick said:
Fine. You don’t have the answers. Who does? Or do we just keep throwing shit at the wall until something sticks? Regardless of the problems it may create along the way? There has to be a plan. There is a plan for anything successful in life. If there is no plan, we are just spinning our wheels in hopes to appease someone.
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The plan is to build a really big wall and pretend there aren't any folks of color already here.
 
gunslingerdick said:
So is it safe to say that because of the response from the black community to the movie, black folks in general have a special connection to William Shakespeare?
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You were the one who argued that the use of that type of villain was an attempt to make the movie as black as possible. Which was why I originally called you a dumbass. Machiavellian villains have been around since Shakespeare and probably even longer than that. And they transcend culture. How would that be an attempt to make the movie more black?...
 
strummingram said:
Time isn't real. Our need to measure our existence does.
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False. Material and energy move through space and the only reasonable unit of measure for tracking that movement across space is... time. Most of physics doesn't work if you can't understand the concept of time. The velocity of every object in the universe would have to be infinite for time not to exist.
 
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