Bolden to Duke
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LTCC will have a talented roster...... we will have one as well with a bit more experience.
I look forward to the games in 2017...they should be highly competitive
I look forward to the games in 2017...they should be highly competitive
IDK 58, I am a current events guy that likes to discuss, I enjoy looking at other programs as well as our own. I tell folks how I see things, don't expect anyone to agree, they can if they wish or that can disagree AND maybe we can discuss it rationally. I don't like the flame baits that we see but duke getting a solid recruit I want to talk about it.
I do try to be fair thou I will always look at things thru my UNC lens first and foremost but I am ok with giving earned kudos even to programs I dislike.
With duke getting Bolten, if I honestly did believe their getting him made them a super team, I would say it, I don't believe that is the case while many others seem to, again, no requirement to agree with me and maybe if we discuss I can see a flaw in my thinking, so many don't discuss, they prefer to dictate and I don't take dictation well. LOL
now i can rock with that dsouth....lol.....bolden gives duke 3 things imo....a true center/back to the basket guy that will require attention....another big that duke can claim to future recruits....and to me the biggest, this allows giles to not be rushed back and is not necessarily needed right at the beginning of the season
Boogie I KNEW THAT YOU COULD ! LOL
So you don't see Bolden as one & done, I agree but I do wonder how his PT and Jefferson's will work, will it be what he expects it to be or not? Yeah, I know, that is up to how he plays but we all know K prefers a short rotation. Does seem to me to set up a potential Jeter transfer situation, are so many transfers out of that program a good thing?
Eh. I'm not sure a top recruit like Carter will really care about the uncertainty you're describing. The 2 srs., Giles, Tatum, and Allen are almost certainly gone -- and the odds probably favor Bolden leaving as well. Between these guys alone, you're almost certainly looking at a minimum of 5 spots -- and potentially 6. Draft express currently projects Giles at 1, Tatum at 3, and Bolden at 8. There will be plenty of room. And frankly, I just don't buy that potential OADs really spend a lot of time worrying about whether top-end recruits in the class above will declare. For instance, Tatum didn't hesitate to commit even though Ingram was in the class above. Justise Winslow committed even thought Jabari Parker was in the class above. Tyus Jones committed even though QCook was a two-year started at the PG spot. etc. etc. Kennard committed even though Allen was in the class above. And Bolden just committed even though Duke returns Chase Jeter (someone who was ranked as the #15 overall player in the previous class). In recent years, potential OADs prospects expect that the 5* in the class above will declare -- and, if they don't, assume they're good enough to beat said 5* player out for minutes. I just don't think they sit around fretting about whether someone in the class above them elects to stay. Now, that is not entirely without consequence. I think, for instance, the fact that Grayson Allen stayed (somewhat) unexpectedly probably had an impact on Thornton -- who clearly saw how his minutes could be severely cut if he couldn't beat Jackson for the starting PG spot (as suddenly Jackson clearly could not get on the floor as a 2 b/c of Grayson). But that's just how things work in the modern world of college basketball.
Now, I'm not saying that UNC won't start getting more of these top 5-10 recruits now that it appears the NCAA will not be imposing major sanctions. I think they may. But I don't think it will be because of the recruiting point you're making. If the top recruits were as concerned about playing time / competition, a combined 16 5* kids wouldn't have committed to UK and Duke in the past 2 seasons.
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Agree with @aah555
You can bank on Giles, Tatum, Jackson, and perhaps Allen leaving after this year. Not sure on Bolden. It's still early to tell on the 2017 draft. So yes they will have around 4-5 spots available.
But we also have that going for us. We will have a number of spots available as well. Particularly in the frontcourt after Meeks and Hicks graduate. That has to figure in with guys like Bamba, Carter, Knox, Tilmon, and that McCoy kid, especially if Berry returns for his senior year and runs the point.
I think 2017 will see an improvement in our efforts to court top guys.
You can bank on Giles, Tatum, Jackson, and perhaps Allen leaving after this year. Not sure on Bolden. It's still early to tell on the 2017 draft. So yes they will have around 4-5 spots available.
But we also have that going for us. We will have a number of spots available as well. Particularly in the frontcourt after Meeks and Hicks graduate. That has to figure in with guys like Bamba, Carter, Knox, Tilmon, and that McCoy kid, especially if Berry returns for his senior year and runs the point.
I think 2017 will see an improvement in our efforts to court top guys.
I think we play about 9 guys most of the season, with Jeter getting a decent amount of minutes in blowouts and a few minutes in closer games. Part of the reason I say that is that I wouldn't be surprised at all if Giles's minutes are restricted until we reach the stretch run of the ACC season. With regard to Jefferson / Bolden, I think Jefferson probably starts and ends games at the 5 -- but also plays a number of minutes at the 4 to give Giles a breather. That will give both Bolden & Jeter a lot of looks at the 5. While I'm not going to pretend that there's no chance of transfer; I'm hopeful that Jeter will see that he'll have a real chance to be an important rotation player by 2017. Hard to predict. Some guys are patient -- e.g., Ryan Kelly, Miles Plumlee, Marshall Plumlee, Amile Jefferson, Tyler Thornton, etc.; others are not.
More generally, I do think we will see a more permissive rotation than Duke has been accustomed to of late b/c, frankly, I suspect that Duke will have a lot fewer competitive games than it's had in recent years. If this group stays healthy, I think this is a 2 or 3 loss team in the regular season that wins a majority of its ACC contests by double figures. I know you guys disagree, but IMO this squad has a real chance to be the best team that Duke has fielded since those 98-01 Duke squads -- and not just b/c it has unbelievable OAD talent in a strong year for talent (much like the 2014) -- but b/c it surrounds this unbelievable talent with very good veteran players. I know you guys hate Grayson, but he's a legit AA and potential ACC POY caliber player. Jefferson has developed into a very good big who could probably be 2nd or 3rd team all-conference if he got the minutes. Kennard, likewise, is a very good scorer who would probably be a #1 or #2 scoring option on a majority of power 5 teams. And Jones too is a very solid glue guy who plays good defense, gets rebounds, and hits open jumpers. If you want to compare against 2014, the 2016 edition may easily prove to be better b/c it couples a high-end recruiting class with a better cast of returning players.
And with regard to # of transfers, that's frankly modern college basketball. While I'll concede that UNC has an unusually small # of transfers, it's simply not true to suggest that Duke has a large volume of transfers as compared to everyone else in college basketball. It just doesn't. Go look at the numbers. We had 0 transfers in 2010-11. We had 1 transfer in 2011-12 (Michael Gbinije). We had 0 transfers in 2012-13. We had 1 transfer in 2013-14. We had 1 real transfer in 2014-15 (Sulaimon was something completely different). We had 1 transfer in 2015-16. That's a grand total of 4 voluntary transfers in 6 seasons -- and, in each instance, it was by a player who wanted more playing time / bigger role. As a frame of reference, I think NC State has had 5 in the past 3 season; Maryland two years ago had 5 in one class; and Michigan had 4 last season. In fact, I think all but 9 D-1 schools had at least one transfer this off-season. In other words, compared to most of college basketball, Duke's transfer numbers are not only not unusual, but actually better than most.
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UNC
Meeks, Bradley, Hicks
Hicks, Pinson, JJackson, Luke
JJackson, Pinson, Robinson, Woods
KWilliams, Woods, Robinson, Pinson, Jackson, Berry
Berry, Britt, Woods, White
I'll take our guys ANYTIME those overrated wimps want to give it a run...! In fact, I'll take our guys against ANY team out there. Then again, that is just me...
I love it brother ! I feel the same way. I will take this group which the core just played for a national title over a bunch of over hyped freshmen !
Dude, UNC just played for the National Championship AND YOU really do not LIKE our RECENT RECRUITS...??? Whatever...
I see Bolden as a OAD if he chooses to leave...today's kids don't have to have crazy numbers and minutes...I don't see Jackson as OAD...he is gonna have to hobe his pg skills imo...Jones and amile graduate out...Tatum and Giles go and maybe even Grayson especially if they win it all...I don't see Jeter transferring...he should get more time this year and definitely a bigger role as a jr...time will tell on Carter and bamba....I see *hopefully* a change in strategy and 10 guys play...no one needs to be a superstar as weapons are plenty
Are you on crack or something?
I do like our recent recruits but let's be honest here, we aren't getting the top tier guys like we used to. There used to be at least 1 maybe 2 every year or every other year.
I love Theo, JB, Meeks, JJ, and those guys. But wouldn't you also have liked to have Ingram? or Parker? or Okafor? or Giles? or maybe one of those Kentucky guys?
Don't say Roy didn't want them because he did. And I applaud what he's done despite our recent struggles in the recruiting battle, he's our coach and a damn good one at that. But make no mistake, if this was us winning over these OADs we wouldn't be complaining. Not a single bit.
I wouldn't trade our guys for anything. It'd just be nice if they could helped out with a guy who's #1-5 now and again.
trolling down the river once again... This crack that you speak of, do you indeed like it...? If not, then where in the WWW are you getting so much RANDOM BS...?
What world are you living in?
F***in A' how could you possibly interpret my post as trolling? If I didn't know better I'd say you were the troll.
yEP, THEY GONNA GO PRO CAUSE DRAFT EXPRESS SAYS SO, YEP...
Now as much as I appreciate your recap of the last few years of players that left duke after one season and others coming in, as they say in the stock investing world, past success does not gurantee future success. I like how you use the first half of your paragraph to explain how guys staying does not effect the way potential incoming guys look at their PT and in the second half of the very same paragraph share that Thorton left because Allen came back?
I mean ahhh, if ya gonna walk on your own argument isn't it best to do it on a totally different post, at very least in a seperate paragraph ? LOL
Now boogie, let me understand this, you see Jeter getting more minutes this season even thou you have what 3 more front court guys that are highly seen talents? The ONLY real big you had after jefferson went down was Plum3 and that is far from the case for next season and yet you see him getting many more minutes? EXACTLY HOW DOES THAT WORK?
Man, you specialize in putting lip stick on a pig or what? 4 "voluntary" transfers? Man that is a new phrase, now dukies want to break up their transfers in to voluntary and non-voluntary? Ya had 5 transfers in 6yrs by your own numbers boss man and no matter how much lip stick you use on that pig, 5 transfers in 6yrs qualifys more as VOLUME-tary transfers. Welcome to the new duke, "TRANSFER U" !
Man what a bar dukies are setting now days to explain away the LARGE number of transfers OUT, "oh but look at NC State, oh but look at Maryland, oh but look at MIcheeegan" ??? REALLY, do I even need to say any more? LOL
Well hopefully maturation...another summer and all that stuff should help...last season he just wasn't ready...he is the next best C choice behind Bolden and Bolden has to prove himself over what chase should bring....Giles not being 100% to start helps chase to show his wears....he is in a good mix of 4 bolden/giles/Jefferson/jeter...imo...we'll see
I like how you wrote an entire post that completely ignored facts about actual transfer rates / turnover rates in college basketball. The numbers are the numbers. Those were just emblematic of a few off the top of my head. It's fine if you want to ignore the numbers -- but that's the reality. In today's college basketball, 5 transfers / dismissals in 6 years is very good. In fact, if we're counting dismissals, UNC has had 5 transfers / dismissals over the same timespan -- the Wear twins, Larry Drew, Will Graves, PJ Hariston. Now, you can try to parse that and say Will & PJ don't count as transfers b/c they simply decided to quit college and go to the D-league / minor-league pro circuits after dismissal rather than continue in college elsewhere (ala Sheed) -- but I'm not sure that's something that's worth bragging about. The difference between Hairston & Sheed is that Sheed had the academics to graduate early and gain immediate eligibility; whereas Hairston had made himself ineligible through his conduct. And, if we're going to suggest that there's necessarily something wrong whenever a kid decides to leave a school prematurely, not sure what you call guys like JP Tokoto and James McAdoo who decided to leave UNC even though there was no big NBA payday awaiting them. In the last 6 years, Duke has not a single player leave early for anything other than a first-round, guaranteed contract. UNC, by contrast, has had a couple guys leave early to the d-league.
No, you just missed the point I was making. A high school sr. who arrogantly thinks he's destined for college and NBA greatness is not going to be scared off by other OADs ahead of him. A freshman / soph. collegiate player, however, will be scared off if he's actually spent a year playing with a teammate that (i) he comes to realize is better from day-to-day personal experience, or (ii) he knows is more well-regarded by the coach and will be given opportunities / shots that he wants. IMO, a kid like Thornton doesn't leave b/c he necessarily thinks he's worse than Allen, Jackson, etc.. Thornton leaves b/c, after a year at Duke, he realizes that K views Allen / Kennard as better playmakers and will give them opportunities to create over him. In fact, from what I've heard, Thornton elected to leave after K refused to give him assurances that he would start and be given a bigger role in the offense. Now, more often than not, Coach K is right and the smart move for the kid is to stick it out. But, alas, a lot of kids just aren't patient enough to do that.
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WoW, you are really reaching, now you are trying to consider guys that leave UNC early the same as transfers out of your duke program? The NCAA elected to not allow PJ to play his jr season so he elected to enter the NBA, Sheed elected to enter the NBA. They were not dismissed and they did not transfer out to some other program, they elected to go play pro ball and for a dukie, of all people to not understand that questions your credibility. Will Graves was dismissed, he did not transfer to some other program, yeah the Wears and Drew transferred, that is 3, 3 in how freakin long dude? Tell me, other than those 3 who was UNCs last transfer out of the program to another program? It is a LONG, looooong list of former dukies isn't it.
It is you that want to ignor the numbers and then try to say that 6 transfers in 6 seasons is fine, nothing to see here, no need to look at that, REALLY? JMM and JP entered the draft before their eligibility was done how often has exactly that occurred at duke but you try to use it to spin our guys doing it in a negative light, you want to consider them transfers when they clearly were not.
And in a final act to desperately advance your spin you now feel the need to redefine the word transfer to include any player that leaves early that is not drafted in the first round? A duke fan that does not understand a kid leaving early to play pro ball is not a transfer, WoW, thought I had seen it all till I read that from ya. Mmaybe you should just stop right now cause man, you are really not making yourself look good with these crazy arguments... But they darn sure are good for a laugh and I got my Valvano laugh in for today thanks to you. LOL
The dook spin doctors are out in full force. They've become OADU and are having disappointed kids transfer on a very regular basis. Just man up and admit that neither of those mean diddly squat to you or your coach as long as you're winning. Just own it and I'd have a little more respect for you.
At least UK fans aren't hypocritical about it, they unabashedly own up to it.
At least UK fans aren't hypocritical about it, they unabashedly own up to it.
Look all I'm saying is this: if Duke OAD kids go back to get their degrees, doesn't that mean something? Irving, Parker, rivers, have all said they plan to get their degrees. Okafor is getting his as we speak. I just think it goes both ways. If you're going to slight a program for using the OAD approach then you have to acknowledge it if those kids go back and get their degrees.
For the remainder of Roy's tenure, we just need to concede that we will not land many top 5-7 overall OAD franchise kind of players. This just isn't the place for those kinds of guys. Traditionally, most of the guys Roy has landed has been in that 15-35 ranking, with a few sprinkles of guys like Brandon Wright, Barnes, and Henson every couple of years. So, that 15-35 ranked player has been Roy's "sweet spot" in terms of recruiting even when he was at Kansas. I don't expect that to change very much just because he coaches a lighter shade of blue now. K and Cal (and to a lesser extent Self and S.Miller) have dominated the recruiting of OAD players for the last 5-7 years. Those programs are the hot commodities right now and are where they see the quickest path the NBA. If you go to any shoe sponsored showcase tourney, and talk to any of the top players and they will tell you they are ALL wanting to come away with offers from Cal, K, Self, and Miller. The ones who get offers from K, Cal, and Self are the ones that immediately jump to projected lottery picks for the next draft. If a player doesn't get an offer from one of those guys, because there are only a few slots from those schools available for each position, THEN they look a the next tier of schools. We are at the top of that next tier, so once the smoke clears from the top 7-8 OAD guys, we are usually in the lead for the remaining pool of talent that's left after that first tier of guys has gotten offers. So, with that said any conversations about any guys in that top 7-8 range is "stretch goal", with the reality being we'll land the guys who fall in that 15-35 range and that's where Roy tends to concentrate his recruiting focus. And, this has been the case way before the "scandal" and will continue to be the case now that is is over.
And to imply that landing those kind of guys each year by K and Cal is some how disingenuous or "over recruiting", is frankly a problem I wish we had. If we landing those guys, we'd be lauding Roy for adding depth to his bench.
And to imply that landing those kind of guys each year by K and Cal is some how disingenuous or "over recruiting", is frankly a problem I wish we had. If we landing those guys, we'd be lauding Roy for adding depth to his bench.
Let's us know when they have those degrees. Not "plan on getting degrees". It's just talk right now.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Justin Jackson was top 10 also. The problem seems to be though, these 15-30 ranked kids are starting to think they are OAD also! Just look at the guy this thread is about. This kid is a top 20 recruit, not top 5, not top 10 and he seems to be getting a lot of hype. (Espn has him at 16)
Okafor is getting his degree as we speak? Really, he was a freshman season before last and he is already getting his degree today? WoW, that is pretty amazing, I thought that socialogy degree took 3 yrs but he has managed it in 2 and played a NBA season, that is amazing! He must really be motivated to be a social worker and bank that $27k a year! LOL
A) To duke fans: What does coming back for their degrees after leaving for the NBA have to do with duke becoming a OAD revolving door? Not a thing as far as I can tell.
B) To UNC fans: Bagging on duke players working toward their degrees after leaving for the NBA just comes off as petty. Kudos to them for continuing their education.
B) To UNC fans: Bagging on duke players working toward their degrees after leaving for the NBA just comes off as petty. Kudos to them for continuing their education.
he is currently in summer school working towards completing his degree...i am sure you are being funny?...., but at least he is working towards finishing something he started because of the principle behind it? maybe he promised someone?...gotta be nice to get a year for free, win a title, become a millionaire, and can still have to opportunity to continue his education...kudos to him and that 3 year sociology degree also includes up to 8 sessions of summer school.....=)
To me it shows that they have the desire to finish something that they started even though they decided to take an outstanding financial and life time dream of going to the NBA....they have chosen to come back to the place that they started where they have established friendships and bonds w/ the coaches and players and to be around something that they truly enjoyed....they left because they pursued a dream and also probably return to continue to pursue another dream......since Kyrie in 2011, Duke has had essentially 1 OAD each year, minus 2013 that didn't have any....2015 is the current anomaly and it yielded a natty (jones and winslow struck when the iron was hot they happened to be freshman, but the same way as the guys from your 2005 natty team struck when the iron was hot)....2016, back to 1 OAD....this years crew has bigger OAD potential than 2015 but the results remain to be seen yet....duke is hot right now in recruiting and are putting together good classes that consist of top OAD talent as well as 2-4 year players for balance
It's simple. It shows that Duke still recruits the same type of kid. It shows that times have changed more so than Duke and K have. Grant Hill, Carlos Boozer, Jay Williams are just three examples of guys who would probably be OAD if recruited TODAY.
One thing for sure, most Duke fans last year were saying that UNC would not be able to compete with them this upcoming season. I'll take that bet right now. Put their team and our team on a neutral floor for the best of 7 and the Heels may take that series.
Berry
Pinson
Jackson
Hicks
Meeks
I'm not losing any sleep worried about Duke with this line-up. Duke no doubt is loaded...
Berry
Pinson
Jackson
Hicks
Meeks
I'm not losing any sleep worried about Duke with this line-up. Duke no doubt is loaded...
I was not bagging on the guy for coming back and working on his degree. What I was bagging on was the statement that he "was getting his degree as we speak", I felt it a lil early for someone to be handing him his degree. Now had the statement been WORK*ING ON HIS DEGREE as we speak, well oK then, no problem.
And yeah, I know what he was wanting to say and I expressed a different meaning to his words but I used his words, I didn't paraphrase them. I was actually joshing with the poster, was not intended to be a serious statement other than not sure we need an update anytime a former duke player steps back on their campus, do we update them every time a former Heel player steps back on our campus? LOL
