Boogie pulls out of the draft
- Thread starter UncTwinz
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UNC can't be done yet. There are 3 holes to fill small forward, point guard and back up center. A proven distibuter of the ball at D 1 level is the first (Paige has to be disapppointed Cadeau left). A backup center is a must, no need to tempt the injury gods. And of course a small forward, preferably someone that can shoot and play defense. I don't care if we know their names and if they are the next big thing, I care if they know how to play at this level and can perform. We have had too much talent not perform. It is not always the coach's fault, some players don't play well under pressure.
On an entirely different tack, UNC needs a new pr campaign. Hubert doesn't say enough to do it/ And he is not the right person to lead this anyway. UNC is getting creamed in the press, on tv and radio. Meanwhile close opponents are being crowned the next shinig example of whatever the headline reads. Bellichic and his compainion don't help but that is only a small part of the puzzle. High's return is a quagmire and it is not as fashionable to be well educated as it has been in the past. All that said, UNC is still a premier institution and needs to say so loudly and proudly.
Hubert Davis, Lebo and Paige need to show they have a program worthy of UNC's traditions and history. I am certain they are aware of this. It would surprise me that last year's schemes are used this year. They didn't work and I suspect they were used to stopgap problems of perfromance. The roster needs to fill and then we willsee what we have as ateam.
On an entirely different tack, UNC needs a new pr campaign. Hubert doesn't say enough to do it/ And he is not the right person to lead this anyway. UNC is getting creamed in the press, on tv and radio. Meanwhile close opponents are being crowned the next shinig example of whatever the headline reads. Bellichic and his compainion don't help but that is only a small part of the puzzle. High's return is a quagmire and it is not as fashionable to be well educated as it has been in the past. All that said, UNC is still a premier institution and needs to say so loudly and proudly.
Hubert Davis, Lebo and Paige need to show they have a program worthy of UNC's traditions and history. I am certain they are aware of this. It would surprise me that last year's schemes are used this year. They didn't work and I suspect they were used to stopgap problems of perfromance. The roster needs to fill and then we willsee what we have as ateam.
...and several other Heels, and yet they're not helping us at all in attracting players --- in fact, just the opposite --- which goes back (yet again) to what I've been trying to get across here.
If the word on the street is as bad as you’ve been saying, then it really shouldn’t matter who represents who. It’s a business and they’ve all spread the word.
While I think we lost some good talent that moved on, I don’t think they were great no matter how well hd could have done. The landscape of college basketball has changed so much that it’s really hard to get excited about much imo. The amnesia this coach staff has to what they’ve all cut their teeth on is astounding. The dang jerseys are the only thing Carolina.
Pardon me while I take a deep breath before I post this:
First, I've given y'all the sanitized version. There are some things I'm just not at liberty to share.
Second, even given the fact that agents are largely douche-canoes and the whole "prepare for the NBA" thing is mostly post facto BS, we have done recent 5* players a major diisservice, and that is KILLING us right now,
And third (and MOST lmportantly), if you choose to believe for a damn milisecond that the talent this staff alienated is not elite???... then LMAO and SMDH.
Believe what you want...
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I know the talk is hurting us. I get it but alienated? Regardless if they are scrubs or elite or just good players, they played. They literally had every chance in the world to be so valuable to their team. I know hd isn’t a very good coach, at least at the present, and his system or lack there of is laughable, BUT you and everyone else knows this in sports. Let your play do the talking so that, you can’t be subbed for or replaced on the court. Not one guy that left did so. EC was imo the closest to doing it but once again there were limited resources for our guards to work with. But alienated? They may have felt that way but some of those feelings come from listening to too many talking heads.
Honest question, do you think that hd would have sat EC as long in the first half or at the end of the half if he wasn’t constantly in foul trouble? I don’t, but I also don’t think hd knew how to handle him mentally either. With all of that said I can kind of see how you would use the word alienated and how EC could feel that way. I think it sucks that he, and Ian are gone but my point is they were not so good that they can’t be replaced.
1) none of the departed 5 stars has been replaced yet
2) putting someone on the court doesn’t equal supporting them. HDs biggest selling point has always been what a great guy he is, so to have strained relationships with his most talented players is a huge issue. He stood beside JWit post lane violation but as far as I am aware was silent when EC blasted by former players who should have known better (and had worse TO numbers).
In your opinion they haven’t been replaced yet. EC s assist numbers may be the only thing not covered yet. The replacements will be a year older and more mature from last year. They’ll hopefully be able to stay on the court more without fouling. We could cut down on turnovers. All of those things help in the long run.
I understand his feelings may have been hurt but you nor anyone else knows what hd said or didn’t say to EC during that time. The facts that we know is he played him and he had chances. There were times he looked great but there were also times he was atrocious. Kinda funny how quiet people were when he struggled. Too much hype from day one and he never lived up to it. His camp believes he was never given the keys or support. Maybe not. He left, quit or whatever you want to call it. It may not sound like it but I hate. He showed improvement in maturity, outside shooting, and fouling. I also don’t think he had the bigs to even compete as well as others did but that’s no reason to quit.
Btw hd took up for jwit for a game play in an interview. One thing I’ve learned this year about Hubert, his interviews and public speaking skills are not good to say the least.
Good post bama!
You put hammer to nail when you say "Let your play do the talking" and I would add to that let your play do the talking rather than your hype. I think it is interesting that over the last 2 seasons we have had 3 different 5 star players come in and the one of the 3 with the least amount of hype, the one with the hardest challenge to deal with is the only 1 of the 3 to actually be 1 and done, which is the expectation of 5 star players. You could evenb add a 3rd year in that and add GG Jackson, as well way over hyped, I am not upset he never made it to play for us considering the embarrassment he caused for the Columbia cocks.
Now no one should question the talent of Cadeau or Jack but history is full of big time talents that never made it. Far to often hype sets up big time talents to fail especially in this day where players live in these protective bubbles and social media amplifies the hype daily where all the want to hear is praise and take any form of critique as an attack. Any failure by the player is blamed on any and everyone but the player himself. UNC is the only team I really follow closely, I assume other programs have this issue as well but what teams like UNC, Duke, Ky, Kansas do get amplified beyond belief.
Cadeau 5 star player, 5 star talent for sure but at least to my eyes has not played up to what you should expect from a 5 star, he has not come any where close to his incoming hype. What I see that explains this to me read as excuses more than reasons, that is a thing we are ALL guilty of. Jack 5 star talent for sure but last season he gave us 7 games of 5 star offensive production and could not guard a stop sign, the NBA laughed when he tried to enter the draft and whose fault was that, well it had to be Hubert, surely the player himself deserves no blame (hope you see the sarcasm dripping off that statement). Look at the hype Tyson came to us with, hype so hard that the kid could never live up to it, the hype killed the kid, it sure didn't help him on the court.
Maybe the players we now have will get a major advantage in that the hype for these incoming guys has the bar of expectation set really low, maybe these kids will be allowed to just go out and play and not feel they have to live up to over blown expectations.
Yes of course, I agree, Hubert has simply not been good, both he and his staff have grossly under achieved the real talent they had and yes the coaching has been a hard factor in this, I have shared that I would have let Hubert go after last season, I am not absolving him of blame but I am as well not willing to bury my head in the sand of the players responsibilities for the results either. I am not going to blame or down grade the players that are now on this team for what players that are no longer on this team achieved or didn't achieve.
My war cry is your last sentence. As much as I hate they are gone, they left. They chose to leave regardless of why. I don’t blame Drake at all of course.
The alienation came from misuse. While sometimes "foul trouble" was present, it was largely a red herring because he wasn't in that situation nearly as much as narratives want to portray.
Fact is Eliot's game was stymied by 1) cutting off our transition game at the knees in favor of endless called plays (which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what you do with an elite creator at PG), and 2) he was specifically limited in playing his game even in the half court, where he was told to not create anything for himself other than layups. We're talking about a kid who can literally get himself an open look any time he wants it, and when you restrict the midrange, it's like putting ankle weights on a sprinter.
Bottom line is, all the control-freak shit that was coming from the sideline kept Eliot from "having the keys" (as we always talk about), and thus gave us the disjointed offense we suffered thru all season. Welp, guess who else suffered thru it. Y'see, restricting Eliot restricted everyone else (except maybe RJ), and Ian and Drake know damn well what opportunities were there when EC was allowed to rock and roll.
Eliot would have preferred to fiinish his college career here --- and so would Ian and Drake --- but instead of self-evaluating and learning from mistakes, Hubert dug his heels in and so EC vamoosed, which as I told y'all at the time would have a deadly rippple effect.
If folks want to keep hanging on to the narrative that Eliot wasn't misued, well sorry, I ain't having it because I know for a fact that narrative is false, and I can also tell you (from about as close to the horses' mouths you can get) that if Hubert would have relented when Eliot asked him to a couple of months ago, EC would be here, Ian would be here and about 90% that Drake would as well.
So, imagine if you will that trio of 5*s with time under their belts returning as our starting perimeter, adding a Big like Veesaar and keeping whomever else, and hell, we're talking a preseason top-5 roster. All Hubert had to do was pull his head outta his butt and agree to let Eliot play the game he was promised when we recruited him. In other words get back to Carolina basketball (which is really all he ever asked!), but no...
THAT is the #1 reason we became toxic to transfer PGs in particular, and a red flag to others.
Who are what was he trying to hide by all the play calling? I know they seemed disjointed at times. Trust? Ignorance?
I’ve thought since day one that hd was a great coach for the good cop role. Every team has one. Drama like this stops with him regardless of who was calling plays too.
Foul trouble or misuse? I'm not a coach for sure. But with my eyes I could see cadeau was a good player but not a great player. 5 years from now cadeau will never sniff an NBA team as a starter. But that's just my opinion. We will see.
I still SMDH at every post I see that someone says that the players were given every opportunity to showcase their talents and your post is the most tasteful and accurate assessment that sums up what I've been saying , not so tactfully, most of the last 2 seasons.
These high school kids are athletes striving for success and they thrive by showing their talents and athleticism in a loosely structured (somewhat) amateur environment and they do that by running. If HD had recruited EC, IJ, Drake and others and said for the next 2 yrs. your college basketball world will revolve around Bacot and RJ Davis and an offense that stands around looking for someone other than them to make a play then I doubt any of them would have come to UNC but hubcap likely lied and fed them bullshit to recruit them and now you have multiple 5* recruits, and some other really good support players bailing that are telling hubcap, and not UNC, to go f yourself and we're gonna tell all the folks in our circle that you're FOS and you suck as a coach because if the truth be know .. which is now obvious to most, he does.
And you guys ragging on EC are FOS too. He was cut off at the knees day one with hubcaps short leash and dumb ass offensive crap and tbh by actually watching the games over the 2 years he was here what was supposed to be our next great true pg was actually never the primary ball handle most of the time. And as an aside I would like to know how many of EC's TO's were actually because of others not handling his passes or even looking for them to start with or how many assist he was never credited with because of clueless statisticians.
Bottom line is Gary is spot on in his assesment of where and why the UNC bball program is where it is at the moment and you almost have to be blind not to see it.
I've been watching and following UNC since the early 60's and I've never seen anything like the ish show that is now UNC bball. But I do believe nice guys finish last and that's where the UNC bball program is heading under hubcap unless he get's his head out of his ass and returns to a proven winning system. jmo
That's just it. There WAS nobody to hide.
When RJ and Caleb had to play together, we HAD to scheme constantly because neither was a PG, and as we saw, that worked until it got scouted. Recruiting Eliot eliminated the need for that --- or at least SHOULD have, but Hubert just wouldn't let go from day-one. I'm told Jeff was the main instigator of that, but you're right --- the buck stops with Hubert.
And, of course I've heard the rationalization for this season that not having a traditional post guy caused them to panic and resort to all the damn ball-screen stuff, but that is the OPPOSITE approach that should have been used. Hubert even started off with the right idea of being "ultra-fast", but for whatever reason, that went the way of the dodo bird.
Finally, going back to your original question, everyone in the hoops world (notwithstandoing some dumb posts elsewhere on this board and ITT) knew what we got when we recruited EC, then watched in disbelief as we stupidly hamstrung him. I cannot tell you how many times I've been hit with that conversation --- it has been a collective WTF? for 2 years.
Look, as a former coach I instintively default to siding with a coach when things don't work with certain players, but trust me, THIS AIN'T THAT.
I personally think Hubert’s talent evaluation is worse than his in game management and I’m not overly high on that either, lol. The staff thought they had something in Washington that they didnt have. They thought they had something in Tyson that they didn’t have.
Once those 2 flops became reality, the season was doomed. And as nostalgic at pass first PGs are. The overwhelming majority of them are dependent on the talent around them. Cota and Marshall fit really well with extremely talented teams. Once 2 of the projected top 6 guys proved to be flops, the talent on last year’s roster was too ordinary to get a lot out of Cadeau’s skillset.
I’m not going to absolve the players from their responsibility. Cadeau passed up open 3s the entire season. And on a team that was offensively limited at times, that was terrible. Washington passed up open 3s a lot and missed everyone he took until like the 20th game. So the players (like the coaches) werent good enough last season.
And this isn’t to defend Hubert. I don’t think he can coach his way out of a paper bag. And I’ll take it one step further. Even if he runs UNC’s system to a T, I still don’t think he’s the solution on the bench.
I think the likely thing was Hubert was just unqualified for this position. Yes I know it worked with Roy and worked with others and at one point, every successful head coach was a first time head coach at one point. But causation doesn’t equal correlation. And there’s no evidence to say just because he’s a UNC guy, there was a higher chance of it working.
I think the reality is Hubert is probably not meant to be a head coach at this level. It happens.
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