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Carolina Basketball

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Quest4Seven

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Feb 25, 2019
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One of my favorite posts over the years was from our favorite poster gary who stated if we didnt hire someone “in the family” it would no longer be Carolina basketball

What part of this version of Carolina Basketball is your favorite?

-Is it the 1 on 1 from our guards?

-Is it the disappearance of any sort of fastbreak offense? (When was the last time we inbounded the ball after a basket, threw it down court to a big that beat everyone down the court and got a layup? Maybe the Coby White year?)

-Is it the refusal to center the offense around an All-American big man in the paint

-Is it the short rotation that basically is a 5 man rotation every second half?

-Is it the matador defense?

-Is it losing to mediocre teams like Pitt? (this team lost to Vanderbilt 3 weeks ago and also lost to West Virginia and Michigan by more than 20 btw)

If you wanna see what “Carolina Basketball” looks like maybe turn on a UConn or Arizona game. Coach Rob looks to have brought plenty “Carolina Basketball” to Tucson, they even run our primary and secondary break better than we do!

Thank you for those two wins against Dook Hubert, it’s time to get a real Coach now, not a college gameday anchor
 
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gunslingerdick said:
We are 9-5. On paper, this team had the makings of a dominant team that would lose 4-5 games all season. The only thing that could disappoint me more is our football team.
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When you think about it are the football teams and basketball teams really that different? We will have the better players most of the time, and when the effort and execution are there we will usually win. However like Mack Brown, Hubert is never going to outscheme or outcoach the other team and when the gameplan doesnt work early you can expect it to get ugly
 
So one Final Four and some disappointing losses mid-season equals we need a new coach? Lol, we're better than this.

If you've been watching the games we run tons of on-ball screens, there's not a lot of iso with the guards. Gary wants us to run more motion, but Hubert doesn't want to play that way and we're not going to as long as he's the coach. Lots of other top college basketball teams run the same scheme, so it's not in and of itself a problem.

We dumped it down to Bacot a ton today, he had 20+ points. In high level ACC play you're not going to get a post up for your center on every possession.

For championship level play you can't have your lead guard play like Love has so far this season with our defense. Those are just two critical ingredients that are missing so far. Hubert should work on the defense but Love's problems are mostly his own to fix. If Love plays like he did last year we'll look a lot better. Otherwise, we're stuck with him for now, there aren't any better guards on this team. If he doesn't get better we can't do much about it this season but reinforcements are coming in Wilcher/Cadeau.

We also need better forwards long-term. Leaky's non-offense has been an underrated issue for this team the last couple years that makes it harder on the others, and so far Nance hasn't been good enough. Our last ten years of championship runs has featured guys like Cam, Justin Jackson, Hicks, Brice Johnson, etc at the forward spots. The drop off to these two is stark in comparison, even though their solid players. We don't seem to be recruiting high end forwards though, which is my biggest confusion with our roster building thus far. Puff and Nickel seem like similar solid level players who will also be unlikely to be championship level difference makers.
 
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Quest4Seven said:
One of my favorite posts over the years was from our favorite poster gary who stated if we didnt hire someone “in the family” it would no longer be Carolina basketball

What part of this version of Carolina Basketball is your favorite?

-Is it the 1 on 1 from our guards?

-Is it the disappearance of any sort of fastbreak offense? (When was the last time we inbounded the ball after a basket, threw it down court to a big that beat everyone down the court and got a layup? Maybe the Coby White year?)

-Is it the refusal to center the offense around an All-American big man in the paint

-Is it the short rotation that basically is a 5 man rotation every second half?

-Is it the matador defense?

-Is it losing to mediocre teams like Pitt? (this team lost to Vanderbilt 3 weeks ago and also lost to West Virginia and Michigan by more than 20 btw)

If you wanna see what “Carolina Basketball” looks like maybe turn on a UConn or Arizona game. Coach Rob looks to have brought plenty “Carolina Basketball” to Tucson, they even run our primary and secondary break better than we do!

Thank you for those two wins against Dook Hubert, it’s time to get a real Coach now, not a college gameday anchor
Click to expand...
What’s frustrating is that we have shown flashes of “Carolina Basketball “,but not on a consistent basis. No doubt the staff has failed thus far to get this team to play at a high level. But remember- this is a Roy Williams hire.
 
Quest4Seven said:
We run an NBA system when we have no NBA players
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We ran the same system last year without NBA players and made the championship game. I think it's pretty clear we're not going to change the system, and frankly I think you guys are missing the mark entirely with this criticism.

Kansas won the championship last year with a pro-style offense. Nova won their championships that way too. None of those teams had a big to dump it to down low, all ran lots of pick and roll with tons of threes, and not many high level NBA players there either.

We have a top guard in Love playing way below his talent level and two fairly limited offensive forwards and yet we're still #12 in the country for points per possession on offense.

The idea that we have to run motion offense to be successful is one of the more ridiculous takes I've heard on this board.
 
bleeduncblue said:
Hubert is our basketball John Bunting. he wont be our coach 2 years from now.
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I need to bookmark this statement. Because I have no doubt he will be the coach. Beating Duke the way he did last season, and making it to the final game in the NCAA tournament will guarantee him at least two more years. And he just scored the number one point guard? At least two years.
 
strummingram said:
I need to bookmark this statement. Because I have no doubt he will be the coach. Beating Duke the way he did last season, and making it to the final game in the NCAA tournament will guarantee him at least two more years. And he just scored the number one point guard? At least two years.
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Next year's team could easily be better than this years. If we get bounced in the first/second round this year and then are a #2/#3 seed in 23/24 I'm not sure where people think Hubert is going. I would love to see Vegas odds on Hubert being gone in two years, I'd bet they'd be pretty long.
 
strummingram said:
I need to bookmark this statement. Because I have no doubt he will be the coach. Beating Duke the way he did last season, and making it to the final game in the NCAA tournament will guarantee him at least two more years. And he just scored the number one point guard? At least two years.
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you're probably right about the timeline, but i'll be surprised if he survives long term.
 
bleeduncblue said:
you're probably right about the timeline, but i'll be surprised if he survives long term.
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The longer he coaches, the better he's going to get. He's not infallible, but he's got about as much grooming and vetting as a coach could possibly get. And, he in that staff did get them to the final game last year. So, I don't know what's going on with this particular team, but it can't be all coaching. I would say he deserves some credit for being there a year and a half and doing what he has done. Granted, they're not as dominant as a lot of Roy Williams and Dean Smith teams were, but they're not in the dumper.
 
gauchoheel said:
Next year's team could easily be better than this years. If we get bounced in the first/second round this year and then are a #2/#3 seed in 23/24 I'm not sure where people think Hubert is going. I would love to see Vegas odds on Hubert being gone in two years, I'd bet they'd be pretty long.
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I think Caleb love is highly overrated. And I just don't know why he gets so much playing time.
 
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strummingram said:
I think Caleb love is highly overrated. And I just don't know why he gets so much playing time.
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He certainly has been so far this year. The good thing is we have Trimble/Wilcher/Cadeau in the wings so if he doesn't improve we can always let someone else lead the offense next year. I'm beating it to death but where we also need to upgrade is at forward, and that's where I'm not sure where the improvement is coming from in 23/24 yet. I'm sure we have a plan, but not clear what it is.
 
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gauchoheel said:
Next year's team could easily be better than this years. If we get bounced in the first/second round this year and then are a #2/#3 seed in 23/24 I'm not sure where people think Hubert is going. I would love to see Vegas odds on Hubert being gone in two years, I'd bet they'd be pretty long.
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well so far he's taking a team that played for the national title and turned them into an unranked, extremely mediocre team halfway thru the season. what are the Vegas odds on that?
 
I’ve watched this thing for the past three years and haven’t been really impressed. It’s been the same players and they all have been pretty much mediocre for the past three years so I’m not sure why we thought we were going to be the cream of the crop this year. I do realize we got on a run last year and got hot, but that was sort of an anomaly. It will take another one of those runs and not sure if we can do it but I can only hope and pray
 
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Sadly, We're currently seeing what I feared the most about the Hubert hiring: He's mediocre. He has us nowhere near as good as what UNC Basketball is familiar with and should be at, but not nearly bad enough to justify a firing, since we're still a tournament team.

For one, he's a great recruiter. Far better than Roy was in the late years, which means he can keep us barely afloat with just talent.
But it's his two best traits, likeability and UNC pedigree, that really matter to these nepotistic PTB. That will give them reason to keep him on a long leash, even if we stay like this for the next ~5 years he has on his extended contract. Not to mention the amount of fans that will find every reason under the sun to defend him.
My current favorite is "these are Roy's player"; As if A) He didn't take Roy's players to a title last year, B) Roy didn't win his first title with another coach's guys. and C) He's mostly playing Roy's guys now.

Look, The Tourney Run was magical. No one can take that away from him or us. But isolate those six games; what do we have to show from that season? One @duke win?
Half of Hubert's wins are against Q3 and Q4 opponents in a down ACC year...He only has 2 regular season wins against AP Top 25 teams that aren't Duke; both teams were ranked at the bottom of the Top 25. We somehow have a worse record than we did last year right now.
We forgave the ugly regular season due to the March Madness run + it being his first season. But now what? Is he going to do that every year in the tournament? I sure hope so; just like I hope for world peace...

UNC Basketball is synonymous with WINNING Basketball. This is not winning basketball.

But even with all that said: Anyone who expects Hubert to be fired any time soon is in for a rude awakening. The fact that we were willing to hire the guy with zero experience in the first place should show you how delusional these admins + alumni were to begin with. He's here to at least 2028. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets another small extension.
Saddle up. We're in it for the long haul, thanks to the arrogance of the alumni + co. and Bubba's spinelessness.

But hey, just relax guys. The sky isn't falling :)
 
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gauchoheel said:
We ran the same system last year without NBA players and made the championship game. I think it's pretty clear we're not going to change the system, and frankly I think you guys are missing the mark entirely with this criticism.

Kansas won the championship last year with a pro-style offense. Nova won their championships that way too. None of those teams had a big to dump it to down low, all ran lots of pick and roll with tons of threes, and not many high level NBA players there either.

We have a top guard in Love playing way below his talent level and two fairly limited offensive forwards and yet we're still #12 in the country for points per possession on offense.

The idea that we have to run motion offense to be successful is one of the more ridiculous takes I've heard on this board.
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Im not talking about the quality of players Im talking about the type of players.

The system worked in the tournament last year because Manek was on fire and it spread the floor for Love and RJ

Nance hasnt filled that void and Leaky is unfortunately a 3 and D guy that cant really shoot 3’s. Defenders sag off him and it allows Bacot to be doubled more

Leaky makes glue guy plays and his defense cannot be understated but I do not think our offense can function at the highest level until either Leaky is gone or we have a legit knock down shooter on the court with him
 
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I personally think winning at a high level with players like Caleb Love is really difficult. Roy struggled with him. Hubert’s struggled with him.

No one on this roster really makes the players around them better. Maybe Leaky but he’s an offensive zero too many nights to lean on that.

It looks bleak now but I’ll reserve Hubert judgment until he’s no longer coaching Caleb Love.

Also, this roster as a whole isn’t talented. 0 lottery picks. Probably 0 guys who get longterm second NBA contracts.

Roy never won without NBA dudes. Hubert got to a Final Four because in large part of Manek who’s an overseas pro. So I think there’s something there with Hubert. Enough that I want to see without these flawed, unskilled Roy recruits.
 
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If Roy called in the middle of a game we was winning by 20 and said he wanted to be the coach again, I wouldn't even wait till the next dead ball I would walk down behind the bench tap Hubert on the shoulder and whisper in his hear, "you're fired"!

Then hope when Roy retired, the next time we made a more educated choice on our coaching hire!
 
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SJung851 said:
I personally think winning at a high level with players like Caleb Love is really difficult. Roy struggled with him. Hubert’s struggled with him.

It looks bleak now but I’ll reserve Hubert judgment until he’s no longer coaching Caleb Love.
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same
 
SJung851 said:
Roy never won without NBA dudes. Hubert got to a Final Four because in large part of Manek who’s an overseas pro. So I think there’s something there with Hubert. Enough that I want to see without these flawed, unskilled Roy recruits.
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Love and Bacot probably would have been drafted out of high school
 
i feel ya Mondo. our guards stopped giving you the ball and couldn’t defend man on man on the other end. just call them out by name next time. we know who they are.
 
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GoNtheDistance said:
i feel ya Mondo. our guards stopped giving you the ball and couldn’t defend man on man on the other end. just call them out by name next time. we know who they are.
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Disturbing evidence of discord on this team and I’m pretty sure I know who the main culprit is. Hubert will either address that issue or this season is going to implode.
 
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CarolinaBlue5 said:
I would guess the second! Hubert is way too nice to do anything about it
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Maybe we need a players only meeting where Bacot reads them the riot act? Actually, I think Hubert is feeling his way with the coach-player relationship thing. I think he’s plenty “mean” enough to chew some butts and punish poor effort/play/attitude. He’s going to have to learn to channel that if he’s to be successful over a sustained period of time. His job isn’t to be BFF to his players, it’s to be a teacher, a disciplinarian when necessary. He has to be the alpha dog.
 
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A players only meeting would be great! Unfortunately, I feel we lack leadership! Maybe Bacot could get to them though!
 
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