Coach Williams has a message for those who question his time out strategy

[KendallMarshallUNC5]

that's hilarious - but doesn't ease my frustration with that part of his coaching style. I accept it but don't like it

Far from hilarious. It's like he just sticks to his old strategy because he doesn't want people to have the satisfaction of knowing he realizes he was wrong. Sounds like a cranky old dude.

Your timeout, substitution patterns and strategy against the 3-ball are garbage! Change!

 

[KendallMarshallUNC5]

There were two time outs during Dooks "run" that didnt help sh**. I guess if Roy called those two, we would have won? Delusional.

What about all the times Roy doesn't call a timeout in a one-possession game with 20 seconds left and the players run a botched play and look like complete idiots (See UNC at Dook recently when Raymond Felton and Rashad Mccants are just staring at each other in Cameron after someone dribbled out of bounds)? Halftime possessions. Every possession is important. Instead he puts in some scrubs at the end of half and we end up on the wrong end of a 3-0 or 5-0 run. His in-game strategy is so mind boggling sometimes.

You guys are really homers if you think his lack of timeouts is a good thing. It's fked the team so many times it's unreal. Roy may think his players can play out these situations without a timeout and coaching but he's SO wrong! It's been proven time after time that his players don't have this capability like he so thinks they do.

Clearly he can do nothing wrong - or at least nothing that you think is wrong enough to actually harp on.

 

[Sk1310]

^^^ not bad...still too transparent though.

as far as condescending, you have me confused with others on this particular board...be careful what you accuse someone of, you could be outing yourself.

Did you figuratively not like that post? Or again, literally? Keep trying, you will figure it all out one day bobo

 

[KendallMarshallUNC5]

It doesn't matter how long someone has done something.....if a pattern is there where something doesn't work....don't keep doing it. I love Roy as our coach, but he is hard headed in some areas. He wins a ton of games.....but doesn't win a lot of games when the opposing team goes on 20-4 runs. We aren't talking about everything he does being bad.....we are talking about something that leads to him probably winning 20% of the games he coaches in that the other team has those types of runs. He could be THAT much better if he adjusted his "game" like most people do in other aspects of life.

Nail on the head!

 

[Sk1310]

What about all the times Roy doesn't call a timeout in a one-possession game with 20 seconds left and the players run a botched play and look like complete idiots (See UNC at Dook recently when Raymond Felton and Rashad Mccants are just staring at each other in Cameron after someone dribbled out of bounds)? Halftime possessions. Every possession is important. Instead he puts in some scrubs at the end of half and we end up on the wrong end of a 3-0 or 5-0 run. His in-game strategy is so mind boggling sometimes.

You guys are really homers if you think his lack of timeouts is a good thing. It's fked the team so many times it's unreal. Roy may think his players can play out these situations without a timeout and coaching but he's SO wrong! It's been proven time after time that his players don't have this capability like he so thinks they do.

Clearly he can do nothing wrong - or at least nothing that you think is wrong enough to actually harp on.

I actually agree with you with usage of time outs down the stretch. That DRIVES ME NUTS. However, with official timeouts every few minutes, his lack of timeouts during the course of the game doesnt bother me at all. Yes, he needs to call more timeouts in crunch time.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Just to juxtapose... remember when Pinson threw down that massive jam in the Duke ACCT game and got the Tar Heel faithful really jazzed up? Guess what Coach K did immediately after the ball went through the hoop?

Timeout.

Stopped our momentum dead in its tracks.

 

[grillheel]

Colby White, PG or shooting guard, that is the question?

I would suggest both he and Jalek are more combo guards than true PGs, I felt the same about Marcus and in truth look at what Joel does, case can be made he to is more a shooter than distributor. Have we been able to win with Marcus at the point or Joel at the point, seems to me we have.

I would prefer we look at PGs from the 2019 class, take a top 3 PG if we can get one from 2018 but I don't see that in the cards. I do think that between Jalek (if he is still there as a soph and I do think he will be), Colby, 7th, and Platek we can cover the PG soph well so that even if we miss a 2019 PG to would not be time to panic, even if Jalek or Colby left early after the 2018 season. And that all assumes that leaky can not play the point at his attained height when he comes in. If he can then all doubt of the position is removed.

I want a wing and a big man from 2018 and a wing & a couple big men in 2019.

What does this have to do with time-out strategy?

 

[al would]

Colby White, PG or shooting guard, that is the question?

I would suggest both he and Jalek are more combo guards than true PGs, I felt the same about Marcus and in truth look at what Joel does, case can be made he to is more a shooter than distributor. Have we been able to win with Marcus at the point or Joel at the point, seems to me we have.

I would prefer we look at PGs from the 2019 class, take a top 3 PG if we can get one from 2018 but I don't see that in the cards. I do think that between Jalek (if he is still there as a soph and I do think he will be), Colby, 7th, and Platek we can cover the PG soph well so that even if we miss a 2019 PG to would not be time to panic, even if Jalek or Colby left early after the 2018 season. And that all assumes that leaky can not play the point at his attained height when he comes in. If he can then all doubt of the position is removed.

I want a wing and a big man from 2018 and a wing & a couple big men in 2019.

The 18 and 19 seasons are a ways off but If Black tops out around 6'6 or 6'7 you could have a situation similar to what we now have with Theo where your forward (big guard) comes out to the top of the key with the ball to run the point and your shooters, Felton/White/Knox/Colby or whomever would move out to the wings and as long as the outside shots are falling the lane, and the inside game for driving to or feeding the post, should be open for business. Not a bad scenario .. jmho. In this scenario Roy still banks all first half TO's .

 

[mikeirbyusa]

What about all the times Roy doesn't call a timeout in a one-possession game with 20 seconds left and the players run a botched play and look like complete idiots (See UNC at Dook recently when Raymond Felton and Rashad Mccants are just staring at each other in Cameron after someone dribbled out of bounds)? Halftime possessions. Every possession is important. Instead he puts in some scrubs at the end of half and we end up on the wrong end of a 3-0 or 5-0 run. His in-game strategy is so mind boggling sometimes.

You guys are really homers if you think his lack of timeouts is a good thing. It's fked the team so many times it's unreal. Roy may think his players can play out these situations without a timeout and coaching but he's SO wrong! It's been proven time after time that his players don't have this capability like he so thinks they do.

Clearly he can do nothing wrong - or at least nothing that you think is wrong enough to actually harp on.

Do you like Roy's success? And I'm sorry, while you continue to harp on Roy you also have a very bad memory.

 

[RoseHeel]

Do you like Roy's success? And I'm sorry, while you continue to harp on Roy you also have a very bad memory.

This doesn't address the TO issues at all....

 

[gunslingerdick]

Far from hilarious. It's like he just sticks to his old strategy because he doesn't want people to have the satisfaction of knowing he realizes he was wrong. Sounds like a cranky old dude.

Your timeout, substitution patterns and strategy against the 3-ball are garbage! Change!

Or what? You won't like the Heels anymore? I'm not sure you leaving the bandwagon is enough to get Roy to change.

It doesn't matter how long someone has done something.....if a pattern is there where something doesn't work....don't keep doing it. I love Roy as our coach, but he is hard headed in some areas. He wins a ton of games.....but doesn't win a lot of games when the opposing team goes on 20-4 runs. We aren't talking about everything he does being bad.....we are talking about something that leads to him probably winning 20% of the games he coaches in that the other team has those types of runs. He could be THAT much better if he adjusted his "game" like most people do in other aspects of life.

I don't like everything that Roy does either. But I'm also smart enough to realize that he isn't going to change. And there may be some truth in the comment that KendallMarshallUNC5 made above that he might be digging his heels in just to show all of us that he's the guy in control. Whatever. It's completely irrelevant why he is who he is and why his philosophy is what it is. What is relevant is the fact that we've been complaining about the same thing for 14 years. You'd think all of us would realize by now that all the bitching and moaning we've done isn't changing Roy. So instead of continuing to beat the dead horse, let's just appreciate Roy's great qualities and try to look past those we don't like as much. Because one thing is for sure - Roy will not change. Period. End of story.

 

[gunslingerdick]

What about all the times Roy doesn't call a timeout in a one-possession game with 20 seconds left and the players run a botched play and look like complete idiots (See UNC at Dook recently when Raymond Felton and Rashad Mccants are just staring at each other in Cameron after someone dribbled out of bounds)? Halftime possessions. Every possession is important. Instead he puts in some scrubs at the end of half and we end up on the wrong end of a 3-0 or 5-0 run. His in-game strategy is so mind boggling sometimes.

You guys are really homers if you think his lack of timeouts is a good thing. It's fked the team so many times it's unreal. Roy may think his players can play out these situations without a timeout and coaching but he's SO wrong! It's been proven time after time that his players don't have this capability like he so thinks they do.

Clearly he can do nothing wrong - or at least nothing that you think is wrong enough to actually harp on.

You can harp on it until you're blue in the face. But I'm just wondering why you would. It does no good.

Me? I get frustrated that Roy doesn't call timeouts. I believe that a timeout could save us here and there (probably not as often as some of y'all think though). But I've seen how this ends. We all complain, Roy says in a press conference that he doesn't care that we're all complaining, he goes on to take us to the Final Four, we all love him again and then we'll all be licking our chops to do it again next year. Same routine. You can get on board with it and make your own life easier or you can just bitch and moan until the cows come home.

 

[bleeduncblue]

UNC fans still bitching about Roy's timeout strategy (or lack thereof) sound just like the Cow College fans bitching about the supposed prejudice against them by the ACC that stifles their ability to bring back the good old days. Somehow, if they can make just enough noise, things will change. Ain't happening.

 

[Archer2]

It doesn't matter how long someone has done something.....if a pattern is there where something doesn't work....don't keep doing it. I love Roy as our coach, but he is hard headed in some areas. He wins a ton of games.....but doesn't win a lot of games when the opposing team goes on 20-4 runs. We aren't talking aboueverything he does being bad.....we are talking about something that leads to him probably winning 20% of the games he coaches in that the other team has those types of runs. He could be THAT much better if he adjusted his "game" like most people do in other aspects of life.

Nice post Coach, it sums my feeling up to a tee. IMO, it is never too late for an old dog to learn a new trick. I would love to see Roy use more TO's to try and halt big runs and reversals of momentum. I would also love to see him defend the three differently against perimeter oriented teams like dook. I realize he's won 80% of his games, something very few coaches can say. But with a couple of tweaks, I think he could win a few more games, especially against our biggest rival down 15-501. And that could only help recruiting.

Will he change? I doubt it at this point. It seems he's gotten his hackles up and isn't going to back down. That's a shame because as good a coach as he is, he could be even better.

 

[jah420]

I did like the point he made about time outs causing some kids to panic more than just letting them play. I love Roy, but I'm sure I'm going to continue to yell "GET A TIME OUT" at the TV. =)

GO HEELS!

 

[carolinablue34]

Nice post Coach, it sums my feeling up to a tee. IMO, it is never too late for an old dog to learn a new trick. I would love to see Roy use more TO's to try and halt big runs and reversals of momentum. I would also love to see him defend the three differently against perimeter oriented teams like dook. I realize he's won 80% of his games, something very few coaches can say. But with a couple of tweaks, I think he could win a few more games, especially against our biggest rival down 15-501. And that could only help recruiting.

Will he change? I doubt it at this point. It seems he's gotten his hackles up and isn't going to back down. That's a shame because as good a coach as he is, he could be even better.

You and I agree for once. It's mainly the losses to Duke this decade that have me fuming and wanting Roy to slightly alter his tactics. But will he? Probably not.

 

[plm]

i was watching a replay of UNC vs Villanova final four 2009 and Villanova starts to go on a run similar to Duke's in the first half and to my surprise Roy quickly calls a timeout. i also remember very distinctly Roy called a quick timeout in the LSU game in ncaa tourney 2009 when LSU started a run. do you think Roy has gotten more stubborn with the timeouts or is it he just doesn't put as much weight on winning these games he is slow to call timeout. my money says if we were playing duke in the NCAA title game and the same thing happens--he will quickly call timeout.

 

[tarheel0910]

i was watching a replay of UNC vs Villanova final four 2009 and Villanova starts to go on a run similar to Duke's in the first half and to my surprise Roy quickly calls a timeout. i also remember very distinctly Roy called a quick timeout in the LSU game in ncaa tourney 2009 when LSU started a run. do you think Roy has gotten more stubborn with the timeouts or is it he just doesn't put as much weight on winning these games he is slow to call timeout. my money says if we were playing duke in the NCAA title game and the same thing happens--he will quickly call timeout.

To me it seems like he is more willing to call a timeout in the NCAAT and he will tighten up the rotation as well. That's why those two things don't really bother me a lot. As long as he does it when it truly matters I can live with it. The thing that drives me crazy about Roy is his unwillingness to guard the three. That just makes me want to throw something at the TV.

 

[bleeduncblue]

I did like the point he made about time outs causing some kids to panic more than just letting them play. I love Roy, but I'm sure I'm going to continue to yell "GET A TIME OUT" at the TV. =)

GO HEELS!

Then why does nearly every other HC on earth call timeouts in those situations? Is it because Roy is the only one who knows the "panic theory" ?? Is it because he is so pissed and panicked that when they come to the huddle, they take their cues from him and go back into the game panicked??

I think he's stubborn, doesn't like letting the fans "have their way" and he pissed enough at his team to "let them figure it out." Sometimes it works but (as we've all seen over and over) most times it does not.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

Sometimes it works but (as we've all seen over and over) most times it does not.

Totally disagree. The vast majority of the time an opponent goes on a run, the Heels collect themselves and answer, because that's what they're trained to do. Happens in most games at some point. Failing to answer a run and thus letting a game slip away is the rare exception not the rule. Roy's strategy may be frustrating for us as fans yelling at the TV for a timeout in the heat of the moment (and I'll freely admit I do that too) but there is a reason for it and it has worked the majority of the time over a considerable sample of games.

 

[bleeduncblue]

Totally disagree. The vast majority of the time an opponent goes on a run, the Heels collect themselves and answer, because that's what they're trained to do. Happens in most games at some point. Failing to answer a run and thus letting a game slip away is the rare exception not the rule. Roy's strategy may be frustrating for us as fans yelling at the TV for a timeout in the heat of the moment (and I'll freely admit I do that too) but there is a reason for it and it has worked the majority of the time over a considerable sample of games.

Okay, just for fun ... I'll name the Miami (several different runs by UM), UVA (mid 2nd half) and the 2 dook games (2nd half in Derm and in Brooklyn) this year where the opponent went on a 15 to 3 or worse run against us, no timeout was called, and we never recovered. I know that's short term memory but I've seen 98% of all the games Roy has coached at UNC (you probably have too) and that same scenario has happened A LOT.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about runs where teams come from behind and catch up to us ... that's totally different, emotionally for the players, than a team taking a 10 to 15 point lead against us, ESPECIALLY on the road ... which is where I have the biggest problems with Roy's non-timeout strategy. It's one thing to dig out of a hole in the DES - waaaaay different on the road.

 

[SKYBLUEWITCHEESE]

What about all the times Roy doesn't call a timeout in a one-possession game with 20 seconds left and the players run a botched play and look like complete idiots (See UNC at Dook recently when Raymond Felton and Rashad Mccants are just staring at each other in Cameron after someone dribbled out of bounds)? Halftime possessions. Every possession is important. Instead he puts in some scrubs at the end of half and we end up on the wrong end of a 3-0 or 5-0 run. His in-game strategy is so mind boggling sometimes.

You guys are really homers if you think his lack of timeouts is a good thing. It's fked the team so many times it's unreal. Roy may think his players can play out these situations without a timeout and coaching but he's SO wrong! It's been proven time after time that his players don't have this capability like he so thinks they do.

Clearly he can do nothing wrong - or at least nothing that you think is wrong enough to actually harp on.

Because if you call timeout, you have to inbound the ball. This is very difficult to do. If you watched the Duke-Louisville game, you saw Coach K call timeout up 3 points with less than a minute to go. Guess what? Louisville STOLE THE INBOUND PASS. The idea sounds nice, but you are making things more difficult on your team to call timeout and then inbound and play against a set defense...

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I think we all agree that we aren't just talking about 10-0 runs or 11-2 runs here. I understand the logic in letting us play through that until next tv time out if the game is still manageable. The lack of time out usage to stop the bleeding in a 20-4 run or an 18-2 run are the ones that I'm talking about in which a game has completely changed course on us and we need to do something, possibly timeout, hell anything to stop the momentum.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I'm still waiting on somebody to tell me they've heard a coach or fan say, "We lost the game today because we used that timeout to try and stop the other team's run."

It's because none of us have heard that. Roy is stubborn as hell and will not change course out of spite, that's just how crotchety he is at this point.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Totally disagree. The vast majority of the time an opponent goes on a run, the Heels collect themselves and answer, because that's what they're trained to do. Happens in most games at some point. Failing to answer a run and thus letting a game slip away is the rare exception not the rule. Roy's strategy may be frustrating for us as fans yelling at the TV for a timeout in the heat of the moment (and I'll freely admit I do that too) but there is a reason for it and it has worked the majority of the time over a considerable sample of games.

I'm sure it has worked in the majority of games. I have no problem if Roy wants to "let the team figure it out" in a game against BC or Pitt in the Dean Dome. When we're playing against elite competition and/or are away from home where the atmosphere can be gaining momentum against us - I think a TO can both stop the momentum in the game and calm the crowd down.

Because if you call timeout, you have to inbound the ball. This is very difficult to do. If you watched the Duke-Louisville game, you saw Coach K call timeout up 3 points with less than a minute to go. Guess what? Louisville STOLE THE INBOUND PASS. The idea sounds nice, but you are making things more difficult on your team to call timeout and then inbound and play against a set defense...

A run-stopping TO would almost always be taken after a made basket. So, when a dookie gets a steal and a run out, throws down a breakaway dunk to make the run 15-3 in Cameron Indoor and the roof is about to blow off the place - that's when you'd take the timeout. And you'd still have to inbound the basketball after you get dunked on regardless of whether you take the TO or not.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Very similar thread on premi and here was my response............................

We've done much better with PG's like Ray-Ty-Marcus calling the play on the go at end of games instead of calling a TO and allowing the D to reset.

I've watched a many of coach cal a TO at the end in a close one to not even get a final shot off after the D has time to reset-change lineups.

Catch 22 if you will.

I still like Roy's success-track record.

And Duke has had the far superior talent the past few years have they not?

 

[gteeitup]

Very similar thread on premi and here was my response............................

We've done much better with PG's like Ray-Ty-Marcus calling the play on the go at end of games instead of calling a TO and allowing the D to reset.

I've watched a many of coach cal a TO at the end in a close one to not even get a final shot off after the D has time to reset-change lineups.

except you're not talking about stopping a run...you're referring to end game scenarios which is a completely different topic, and one i bet most would agree with.

 

[carolinablue34]

Very similar thread on premi and here was my response............................

We've done much better with PG's like Ray-Ty-Marcus calling the play on the go at end of games instead of calling a TO and allowing the D to reset.

I've watched a many of coach cal a TO at the end in a close one to not even get a final shot off after the D has time to reset-change lineups.

Catch 22 if you will.

I still like Roy's success-track record.

And Duke has had the far superior talent the past few years have they not?

We're not talking about at the end of the game, although I think the Raymond Felton situation in 2005 was an example of how that can go wrong. It's during the middle stretch of the game when a team goes on a run, a team of high caliber with a HOF coach like duke. When the run is 15-3 and Cameron Indoor is about to burst, or wherever it is, that's when you take a timeout and make some adjustments to win the game. Roy almost never does that.

 

[bleeduncblue]

Correct. Not complaining about end of game situations.

 

[Heeelz46]

This season the timeouts havent bothered me nearly as much as the strange lineup combos just thrown out there in tight situations or where unc could really build on a lead and step on the oppponents throat. The 2 glaring examples are the end of halves vs miami and dook.

Not only had those guys not played barely the whole half, but he just throws them out there together. Im not even blaming the talent level of the players, because it would be hard to be a stud and just come in cold and be asked to hold or builld on a lead against quality opponents. I truly believe if we couldve maintanied a 12-15 point lead at the half against dook, we would have won that game. There was no rhyme or reason. THeres something to be said about stepping on the other team and giving them no room to breathe-especially in pressure packed tournament situations.

 

[bleeduncblue]

This season the timeouts havent bothered me nearly as much as the strange lineup combos just thrown out there in tight situations or where unc could really build on a lead and step on the oppponents throat. The 2 glaring examples are the end of halves vs miami and dook.

Not only had those guys not played barely the whole half, but he just throws them out there together. Im not even blaming the talent level of the players, because it would be hard to be a stud and just come in cold and be asked to hold or builld on a lead against quality opponents. I truly believe if we couldve maintanied a 12-15 point lead at the half against dook, we would have won that game. There was no rhyme or reason. THeres something to be said about stepping on the other team and giving them no room to breathe-especially in pressure packed tournament situations.

In the dook game he had Berry out (3 fouls) and Meeks out (2 fouls) ... made complete sense.

Made no sense in the Miami game, I think he was just resting them and it backfired, lead-wise.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Monday morning Qbacking is so easy and always right. Remind me again how good all those TO's worked when Gott tried to stop our runs?

 

[mikeirbyusa]

I use to fuss at Dean all the time too, guess who was right 99.9% of the time?

 

[franklin street]

i'm guessing you were right most of the time because i doubt you were fussing when things were going well.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

i'm guessing you were right most of the time because i doubt you were fussing when things were going well.

No, not really, as humans we always think we know better than those who actually do.

 

[Archer2]

Not calling TO's when an opponent was making a run used to frustrate me with Dean as well, even though he used his TO's more than Roy. I heard Dean say that if we we getting good shots, he would let the team play on. But if we were taking bad shots or turning the ball over too much, he would use a TO to correct it. That makes sense to me. But I don't think I ever remember Dean allowing a team to amass a 20+ point lead out of the gate like KU did in the NCAAT, without calling a TO. I have to say that I think Roy uses his TO's less than any coach I've ever seen.

My short wish list for Roy? Use your TO's, defend the three, use more multiple defenses. Now I don't expect Roy to do any of these things but I wish he would.

 

[NCAAUCoach]

I don't get the "don't question someone who knows more than you" crowd. There are hall of fame coaches in the complete opposite camp hat do call timeouts. I was taught if a team goes on a run that your on court play can't stop, you call a timeout and regroup. That is a guideline. If you are taking good shots and aren't throwing it to your
Mom in the third row.....that's one thing. In our big runs we allow.....we quit doing the right things.

No, Roy won't change. He's hard headed. But, if we aren't to talk about things that are opinions and can't change.....might as well shut down the internet.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Not calling TO's when an opponent was making a run used to frustrate me with Dean as well, even though he used his TO's more than Roy. I heard Dean say that if we we getting good shots, he would let the team play on. But if we were taking bad shots or turning the ball over too much, he would use a TO to correct it. That makes sense to me. But I don't think I ever remember Dean allowing a team to amass a 20+ point lead out of the gate like KU did in the NCAAT, without calling a TO. I have to say that I think Roy uses his TO's less than any coach I've ever seen.

My short wish list for Roy? Use your TO's, defend the three, use more multiple defenses. Now I don't expect Roy to do any of these things but I wish he would.

And he uses the same "what the heck did he just say?" excuse every time -- "I'm dumb enough to think if I still have some timeouts left over when I die, I'll win something for it."

What?

 

[TarHeelNation11]

No, Roy won't change. He's hard headed. But, if we aren't to talk about things that are opinions and can't change.....might as well shut down the internet.

This right here is the exact reason why this board has gone downhill the past 3-4 years. Only one viewpoint is accepted here, generally.

 

[Archer2]

I think you're grossly exaggerating when you say only one opinion is accepted here, generally. We actually have good discussions all the time. Do we have some argumentative cusses? Absolutely. But all boards do. Those guys are the minority though. I do think it's a shame that too many threads get derailed by petty bickering, something that most of us are guilty of from time to time.