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Do you think Berry will be back.

I say "he's gone" . . if, he doesn't come back, then I win. Thats the bet, sir . . take it or leave it.

I would gladly pay you $20 for the privilege of watching JB play for us next season.

So now you're back peddling? Your "source" says he's 95% gone which would mean that he's not even going to test, he's just declaring.

My entire argument is that he'd be dumb to declare and hire an agent when he's not projected to be drafted. If he wants to test (which he should) then boost his stock during the combine then good for him.
 
So now you're back peddling? Your "source" says he's 95% gone which would mean that he's not even going to test, he's just declaring.

My entire argument is that he'd be dumb to declare and hire an agent when he's not projected to be drafted. If he wants to test (which he should) then boost his stock during the combine then good for him.

I'm not back-peddling s#it . . if, you don't want to bet I'm fine with it.

Do not put words in my mouth.

Here are my poasts in this thread :


He's not coming back . .

Speaking only for myself, my intel is from folks that are usually 99.5% correct . .

Is it really that hard to believe that Joel is leaving after a Championship season . . ?

Joel is leaving, Tony likely will as well . .

Both leaving puts us in real jeopardy of securing the services Mr. Knox . . (jmhho)

I wasn't offering that up as a wager . . however, I am extremely confident in my sources.

If, you'd like to wager the outcome, I'm good for $100 . . are we on . . ?



@dadika13 . . . just waiting on that heartbeat decision, my friend.

We can go deeper than the $100 iffin' you want . .

Coach 325 . .
I spoke with you 4 or 5 months back and expressed my appreciation for your postings here when all that other BS was going 'round . .

I sensed then, as I do now, that you are just good B-Ball folk.

I say "he's gone" . . if, he doesn't come back, then I win. Thats the bet, sir . . take it or leave it.

I would gladly pay you $20 for the privilege of watching JB play for us next season.
 
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Steat said there was supposed to be an announcement yesterday. Berry may end up going, but I think maybe some posters here might have gotten ahead of themselves.
 
So you're saying Joel is going to declare and sign with an agent and just not test?

I'll take that bet in a heartbeat, I don't care if your intel is Joel's old man.

And Billy, here was my comment in which I said I would take the bet. I said you think he's going to declare and sign with an agent and not just test the waters before deciding one way or another? You said yes. Thus, that should have been the bet.

I've yet to change my stance, you seemingly have.

Oh well. We both agree that we hope he's back.
 
I've not changed one thing. You got scared.

$20 says JB is not on the '17-'18 UNC roster. If, you think he'll be back . . bet it.
 
I've not changed one thing. You got scared.

$20 says JB is not on the '17-'18 UNC roster. If, you think he'll be back . . bet it.

That wasn't what I was offering for the bet. Oh well, not losing sleep over a not made $20 bet.

Carry on.
 
It's sort of a bitter trade-off. You win the championship and then fare as best you can the next season when the exodus occurs.

Look at how many left the derm deviled eggs when they won a few years ago. If we'd won last year, who knows what would have happened. I'm still thrilled we went to back-to-back championships. I just hope the drop-off isn't too low next season.
 
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It's sort of a bitter trade-off. You win the championship and then fare as best you can the next season when the exodus occurs.

Look at how many left the derm deviled eggs when they won a few years ago. If we'd won last year, who knows what would have happened. I'm still thrilled we went to back-to-back championships. I just hope the drop-off isn't too low next season.

I'll take the Natty's and the exodus that follows ALWAYS.
 
No question Berry has tremendous talent and heart but I am hoping he will do what Jackson did last year and find out what others think about his overall game and what he needs to work on to be a sure NBA pick. No one can question the fact that the info Jackson got did not help his game a ton. It was like night and day.
 
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No question Berry has tremendous talent and heart but I am hoping he will do what Jackson did last year and find out what others think about his overall game and what he needs to work on to be a sure NBA pick. No one can question the fact that the info Jackson got did not help his game a ton. It was like night and day.
I'm still a bit questionable that the NBA scouts are providing some brilliant insight. Jackson shot 29% from 3 last year. Anyone who knows anything about basketball could tell him that if he wants to be a perimeter player in the NBA he needs to shoot much better than that. Maybe hearing it from NBA guys lit a fire under him, but anyone affiliated with UNC should have been able to tell him that shooting a 1000 shots a day all offseason would be time well spent.

Berry? He needs to grow taller or be quicker. Barring that it's tough sledding. He's very short for an NBA player and not particularly speedy for an NBA PG. It would help if he was an elite passer or shooter (he is a very good shooter, but I'm talking Steve Kerr status). I'm sure the NBA scouts can provide much more nuanced feedback with some mechanical improvement suggestions, but it's not rocket science.

I think the biggest insight he'd get (or Jackson got last year) is "Hey, you're a late second round pick at best as things currently stand". That's probably the shellshock that helps. These guys have grown up being the best all of their lives, and hearing they are not good enough is probably a kick in the pants to improve. Unfortunately for Berry, his needed improvements are not as easy to fix as Jackson's.
 
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I'll take the Natty's and the exodus that follows ALWAYS.
Ditto
I'd take the Natty, National Championship, the 'chip, the whole enchilada, and the kitchen sink and gladly wave goodbye to half the roster, knowing that under Roy it won't be long before the Heels are contending again (curse cretin... coulda been 4 in 14!!)
 
I'm still a bit questionable that the NBA scouts are providing some brilliant insight. Jackson shot 29% from 3 last year. Anyone who knows anything about basketball could tell him that if he wants to be a perimeter player in the NBA he needs to shoot much better than that. Maybe hearing it from NBA guys lit a fire under him, but anyone affiliated with UNC should have been able to tell him that shooting a 1000 shots a day all offseason would be time well spent.

Berry? He needs to grow taller or be quicker. Barring that it's tough sledding. He's very short for an NBA player and not particularly speedy for an NBA PG. It would help if he was an elite passer or shooter (he is a very good shooter, but I'm talking Steve Kerr status). I'm sure the NBA scouts can provide much more nuanced feedback with some mechanical improvement suggestions, but it's not rocket science.

I think the biggest insight he'd get (or Jackson got last year) is "Hey, you're a late second round pick at best as things currently stand". That's probably the shellshock that helps. These guys have grown up being the best all of their lives, and hearing they are not good enough is probably a kick in the pants to improve. Unfortunately for Berry, his needed improvements are not as easy to fix as Jackson's.
Well... the NBA people DID light a fire with JJ. They told him he had to show he could shoot better and get more physical. He did both. Now he'll likely go lottery.

As for Berry, your assessment is frankly off. Many don't understand just how explosive he is. JB plays under control so appearances are deceptive. When he decides to turn on the jets no one catches him. Ask anyone who's played with/against him about that, they'll tell you... that, and just how strong that little guy is. He can play and excel in the league --- but as with many players it's a matter of finding the right fit. Avoiding this draft would probably be in his best interest because of the other PGs in it who fit the "prototype", yes, but he could also improve his status by returning and showing off more of his offensive chops. Hell, even most Carolina fans have no idea just how good JB is. In other words, with him (unlike JJ) it's not so much a matter of improving, it's a matter of showing the world (and the NBA scouts) what's up.
 
Simply because of the depth at PG in this draft, Joel would be well advised to return. Of course, I'm a bit biased. I also believe it would behoove Tony to return. Another year under Jonas and a year of being the first option inside, could very well elevate him to lottery pick status, guaranteeing his future.

But it's hard to predict what most people will do, let alone young people.
 
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Simply because of the depth at PG in this draft, Joel would be well advised to return. Of course, I'm a bit biased. I also believe it would behoove Tony to return. Another year under Jonas and a year of being the first option inside, could very well elevate him to lottery pick status, guaranteeing his future.

But it's hard to predict what most people will do, let alone young people.
Bradley's decision to go pro is the most perplexing to me. He really could make a lot more money by staying.
 
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Well... the NBA people DID light a fire with JJ. They told him he had to show he could shoot better and get more physical. He did both. Now he'll likely go lottery.

As for Berry, your assessment is frankly off. Many don't understand just how explosive he is. JB plays under control so appearances are deceptive. When he decides to turn on the jets no one catches him. Ask anyone who's played with/against him about that, they'll tell you... that, and just how strong that little guy is. He can play and excel in the league --- but as with many players it's a matter of finding the right fit. Avoiding this draft would probably be in his best interest because of the other PGs in it who fit the "prototype", yes, but he could also improve his status by returning and showing off more of his offensive chops. Hell, even most Carolina fans have no idea just how good JB is. In other words, with him (unlike JJ) it's not so much a matter of improving, it's a matter of showing the world (and the NBA scouts) what's up.
My point is that anyone could have told JJ that. The fact he needed to shoot better and get stronger was plain as day. We can't really know whether it was the feedback from scouts that caused the improvement. JJ could have skipped the draft process last year and put a lot of work into improving those things anyway. I'm positive Roy also gave him the assessment he needed to shoot better last year. People act like JJ could not have identified this weakness without going through the draft process.
 
My point is that anyone could have told JJ that. The fact he needed to shoot better and get stronger was plain as day. We can't really know whether it was the feedback from scouts that caused the improvement. JJ could have skipped the draft process last year and put a lot of work into improving those things anyway. I'm positive Roy also gave him the assessment he needed to shoot better last year. People act like JJ could not have identified this weakness without going through the draft process.
For sure, but the feedback does have the added value of being a reality-check for many kids. It's one thing to have your coaches tell you, and you may even "know" what they say is true, but when the guys you're ultimately auditioning for to get paid real $$ say it, well, bottom line is they control the draft and it can serve as a swift kick-in-the-pants.

In fact I believe Roy has stated one reason he sorta likes the new test-the-waters system is that they can get those reality-checks that reinforce what our staff has been preaching to these guys and they work that much harder.
 
Bradley's decision to go pro is the most perplexing to me. He really could make a lot more money by staying.
I agree with you 100%, but I am told there are some folks with disingenuous intent who have been in the Bradleys' ears. I fear if he gets even a possible late-1st-round feedback from anyone in the league he may go. I hope not, and I don't think it's in his best long-term interest, but...
 
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For sure, but the feedback does have the added value of being a reality-check for many kids. It's one thing to have your coaches tell you, and you may even "know" what they say is true, but when the guys you're ultimately auditioning for to get paid real $$ say it, well, bottom line is they control the draft and it can serve as a swift kick-in-the-pants.

In fact I believe Roy has stated one reason he sorta likes the new test-the-waters system is that they can get those reality-checks that reinforce what our staff has been preaching to these guys and they work that much harder.
Absolutely, I agree with this. I think the reality check and hearing it from an unbiased source are the biggest value of getting NBA feedback.
 
I agree with you 100%, but I am told there are some folks with disingenuous intent who have been in the Bradleys' ears. I fear if he gets even a possible late-1st-round feedback from anyone in the league he may go. I hope not, and I don't think it's in his best long-term interest, but...
Seems to be fairly common with bigs these days. Diamond Stone, Stephen Zimmerman, etc. Hope he gets a guaranteed 1st status if he's going to go. Hopefully Roy or someone else is talking him through the financial implications too.

My point to someone like Tony Bradley would be:

Marcus Paige went in the 2nd round last year, and all he got out of it was $125,000 (that was the guaranteed part of his contract). He is now making ~$25,000 a year. If you go with even the 20th pick in the first round next year, you are guaranteed over $3,000,000. Make sure you will be a first round pick if you are going to declare. Staying in Chapel Hill for one more year to develop a bit more will likely get you in the first round, and in the meantime you are getting all food/housing expenses paid, going to a great school, being a campus rockstar, and getting to play in front of huge crowds on national TV.
 
For sure, but the feedback does have the added value of being a reality-check for many kids. It's one thing to have your coaches tell you, and you may even "know" what they say is true, but when the guys you're ultimately auditioning for to get paid real $$ say it, well, bottom line is they control the draft and it can serve as a swift kick-in-the-pants.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
My point is that anyone could have told JJ that. The fact he needed to shoot better and get stronger was plain as day. We can't really know whether it was the feedback from scouts that caused the improvement. JJ could have skipped the draft process last year and put a lot of work into improving those things anyway. I'm positive Roy also gave him the assessment he needed to shoot better last year. People act like JJ could not have identified this weakness without going through the draft process.
Hearing it from the NBA scouts carries much more weight, It is a rude awakening for many of these young men who think they are much better than they really are. Sad, but true. People have been blowing smoke up these guy's butts for years, it's no wonder they get big heads. Most are a dime a dozen and they think they're special.

For sure, but the feedback does have the added value of being a reality-check for many kids. It's one thing to have your coaches tell you, and you may even "know" what they say is true, but when the guys you're ultimately auditioning for to get paid real $$ say it, well, bottom line is they control the draft and it can serve as a swift kick-in-the-pants.

In fact I believe Roy has stated one reason he sorta likes the new test-the-waters system is that they can get those reality-checks that reinforce what our staff has been preaching to these guys and they work that much harder.
I love the new system whereby guys can test the waters, get real feedback from pro scouts, and then make an informed decision. It's a win-win situation.
 
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The system shouldn't require a declaration in order to get feedback. There should be one time to declare and all kids should be able to go to camps and get feedback from NBA execs. Then, they get to a date where they declare or don't.
 
The system shouldn't require a declaration in order to get feedback. There should be one time to declare and all kids should be able to go to camps and get feedback from NBA execs. Then, they get to a date where they declare or don't.
Agreed Coach. That would be in the best interests of all concerned. So of course, the National Committee for Arbitrary Actions won't do that. It makes waaaaaaaay too much sense!
 
Hearing it from the NBA scouts carries much more weight, It is a rude awakening for many of these young men who think they are much better than they really are. Sad, but true. People have been blowing smoke up these guy's butts for years, it's no wonder they get big heads. Most are a dime a dozen and they think they're special.

I love the new system whereby guys can test the waters, get real feedback from pro scouts, and then make an informed decision. It's a win-win situation.
Pretty fair assessment.
 
Berry....depends on if he wants to make money now, in the NBA, or overseas. Hard to improve on what he accomplished but I don't see his draft stock rising that much if he returns. One deficiency he cant improve is his size.

Bradley....I suppose he has the talent for someone to take chance to sit on for a couple of years and hope he develops. But one wild figure that he would be throwing money away by not coming back. He should be the featured big man next year, and while he did well in spurts this year, he looked like a deer in the headlights on the biggest stage against Gonzaga. Now maybe he had decided he was one and done before he ever got to UNC, but I imagine he should listen to what Roy is probably telling him which is he needs to play one more year and get the big money.
 
Berry....depends on if he wants to make money now, in the NBA, or overseas. Hard to improve on what he accomplished but I don't see his draft stock rising that much if he returns.......
I disagree with this.

Maui Joel was unstoppable and had some 'experts' speculating a Wooden-style season.
I believe he was hampered A LOT by the first ankle injury. His play, and draft stock plummeted as a result.

NCAAT Joel was a shadow of his early season form and it looked like he was just willing himself to the end. It is unfair to rate his NBA value on what he showed in the tourney.

I reckon this can go one of two ways:
1. JB comes back to show the NBA what he can do on two healthy wheels.... injury free he could muscle his way into the first round. (He could have a pretty productive and fun season too)

2. JB is spooked by the injuries and heads to professional play (wherever) now. A bit like butter after the cretin assault.

I'd like #1 to play out... with 40 healthy games from Berry.
 
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I disagree with this.

Maui Joel was unstoppable and had some 'experts' speculating a Wooden-style season.
I believe he was hampered A LOT by the first ankle injury. His play, and draft stock plummeted as a result.

NCAAT Joel was a shadow of his early season form and it looked like he was just willing himself to the end. It is unfair to rate his NBA value on what he showed in the tourney.

I reckon this can go one of two ways:
1. JB comes back to show the NBA what he can do on two healthy wheels.... injury free he could muscle his way into the first round. (He could have a pretty productive and fun season too)

2. JB is spooked by the injuries and heads to professional play (wherever) now. A bit like butter after the cretin assault.

I'd like #1 to play out... with 40 healthy games from Berry.
Oz, I agree, and I think it's silly when folks act like he can't improve his stock. As you said, a full season of health and being able to dominate like he did in Maui could go a long way toward getting into the 1st round.
 
Petition to stop using "Natty". It's like nails on a chalk board to read. "National Championship" looks a million times better.
thank you. if brevity is the motive for the silly sounding "natty," then people could just say "title." i think we know which title that would imply.
 
re: berry, i really hope he comes back for selfish reasons. but for his sake, i hope he comes back too to work on his consistency and his playmaking. his assist numbers are not overwhelming and i would imagine nba teams expect a guy his size to be a distributor more than a scorer. (just guessing).
 
Oz, I agree, and I think it's silly when folks act like he can't improve his stock. As you said, a full season of health and being able to dominate like he did in Maui could go a long way toward getting into the 1st round.

I'm with you guys to some degree but wouldn't Mason be an example of how limited a great college season could be in draft impact for JB? What difference would you point to other than the draft strength at PG? I do think the knock on JB's quickness/explosiveness could be mitigated by seeing him healthy for a full season.
 
I'm with you guys to some degree but wouldn't Mason be an example of how limited a great college season could be in draft impact for JB? What difference would you point to other than the draft strength at PG? I do think the knock on JB's quickness/explosiveness could be mitigated by seeing him healthy for a full season.
Well, Mason hasn't been drafted yet, so that remains to be seen --- and hell, Mason is a Senior so he has no choice, but he will also suffer from this year's loaded proto-type PG class. In a normal year he could have much earlier draft potential than he'll probably see.

JB could absolutely improve his status by returning.
 
Next years draft is no where near as strong and berry has a chance to hopefully play full healthy season-he could definitely help himself by coming back.
 
"Next years draft isn't nearly as strong and deep" said every single year....

I get a chuckle every time I see that because it's said damn near every year. I wish JB well no matter what but fully expect the best decision for him would be to return to lead the Heels.
 
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"Next years draft isn't nearly as strong and deep" said every single year....

I get a chuckle every time I see that because it's said damn near every year. I wish JB well no matter what but fully expect the best decision for him would be to return to lead the Heels.
I hear ya... but this time the cliche is actually true when it comes to PGs. There are no Ball/Fox/DSJr OAD prototypes in this incoming class, plus there were a ton of damned good PGs who graduated and/or came out this time. In other words, the quality pool won't be as deep.

BTW: JB, from an interview today:
(Asked about his meditation rituals, and what he's meditating about these days since winning a national championship)
"...what I want to happen in my life going forward, whatever that is, you know. Whether it's the NBA, or whether it's coming back here and trying to do the same thing again. I try to focus on those things... you know, like the NBA, I'll focus on that in one session, then next session I'll focus on coming back here and just trying to get back to that point again. So that's what I've been doing. It's hard... because I'm resting now, but my dad does a great job of texting me and just reminding me to meditate every night and just like it says on my arm to keep believing."

Sounds like Dog is giving due diligence to a big decision, and that jibes with what I've heard elsewhere. Those who claim they know he's made up his mind to leave are just bloviating at this point (or indulging in wishful thinking in the case of the roving dookies). He may go or he may stay but those who claim they know now are full of it and may as well flip a coin.
 
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Petition to stop using "Natty". It's like nails on a chalk board to read. "National Championship" looks a million times better.

Can we throw "schollys" in regards to "Scholarships" on this list too?

And yes, I think Berry will be back next year.
 
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