TarHeelIllustrated - Elliot Cadeau Reclassifying To 2023, Will Enroll At UNC This Summer
UNC class of 2024 commit Elliot Cadeau will move up to 2023 and enroll in Chapel Hill this summer.
northcarolina.rivals.com
Elliot Cadeau Reclassifying To 2023, Will Enroll At UNC This Summer
- Thread starter andrew jones
- Start date
northcarolina.rivals.com
It is fantastic that it is now publicly announced, just being honest I have expected this for a good while so I am not even slightly surprised. It was either AJ or Sisk, 2 guys I totally respect, that made the point that Dunn transferring out was not associated with Cadeau, I did/do not agree. Dunn transferring out has been for me that last piece of evidence that Cadeau was going to reclass. It was because Cadeau coming means 1 of 2 things (this kid comes as a starter and I don'[t think that is a open question, he is just that good). So it means either Cadeau starts at the 2 or at the point, Hubert would be crazy to NOT start Cadeau at the point in my opinion. Either way you know, if RJ does not start at the point he will start at the 2 which dealt Dunn down a level, means he went from 3 guy at the 2 to 4th guy in at the 2 (blue steel level PT). The other rock solid evidence is that Hubert did not shop the portal for a PG with only 1yr eligibility remaining and he didn't engage with Jaden Bradley either. Means he knew his PG spot was handled well for next season and that could ONLY come from either Seth has blown up with off season work, which it is to early for that to have been the case or that Cadeau was coming and a "silent" agreement to reclass was in place and Cadeau was allowed to make it public at a time of his choosing and for his own reasons (wanting to play in 1 more Peach Jam was a huge deal for the kid).
I think with this reclass UNC becomes a favorite for the final 4 because we now have a PG at the point that is next level in both talent as well as basketball savvy, transforms us from very good to "electric"!
I think with this reclass UNC becomes a favorite for the final 4 because we now have a PG at the point that is next level in both talent as well as basketball savvy, transforms us from very good to "electric"!
Awesome that he announced so early and will be coming soon enough - I hope - to play with and build relationships among his teammates.
Does this mean he won't be able to play in Peach Jam? If so, I take it as a very good sign that he's willing to forgo that high value event in favor of better integration with our team.
Does this mean he won't be able to play in Peach Jam? If so, I take it as a very good sign that he's willing to forgo that high value event in favor of better integration with our team.
I will reserve my enthusiasm for this upcoming season to see how the minutes are distributed and the chemistry. We have had teams that should have ran people out of the gym, but coaching attitude and chemistry made us suck against inferior talent. I am totally excited he is coming for sure. But we shall see what his coming creates for us.
Hand him the keys, rev the engine, and bring back the style of Carolina basketball that
we all know and love!
we all know and love!
Thanks for making this report a freebie.
TarHeelIllustrated - Elliot Cadeau Reclassifying To 2023, Will Enroll At UNC This Summer
UNC class of 2024 commit Elliot Cadeau will move up to 2023 and enroll in Chapel Hill this summer.
Although I'm on record wishing we could see the team we have now (pre-Cadeau) play this season - because I think they would be really good - I'm very psyched now that Cadeau coming is a done deal.
Three thoughts about who should play point....
1. We've had teams in the past where, in Nate Britt's words, whoever gets the ball is the point. Even after Joel Berry won the starting PG spot, that continued to be true a lot - with Nate often bringing the ball up and maybe even running a play before turning it over to JB. Worked pretty well.
2. When Marcus Paige was thrust into the starting PG role as a freshman, it took him a while. IIRC, he was fighting to keep his head above water for about 2/3 of his freshman year - and then it clicked. What saved MP, and made him better, was having training wheels early on, in the person of Dexter Strickand. When MP got in trouble Dex was there. When he needed a rest, but we couldn't afford to have him off the floor, Dex took over the ball handling for brief intervals. It didn't hurt to have Reggie Bullock there, too, both as a shooter to draw the D and as a low-mistake ball handler.
Point being that if Cadeau starts at point, RJ is there in the "training wheels" capacity.
3. Cadeau should start at point. Either out of the gate or very early in the season. Hubert needs to know if he's ready. If he isn't RJ can start there, and Cadeau can probably still get starter minutes. But everything points to Cadeau being ready immediately or quickly.
I won't reserve enthusiasm, but agree with your other points.
At least now we can start predicting PT. It's possible we could still add someone - you don't turn away Jackson or Stevenson if they want to come, for example - but we can now have a pretty good idea who starts.
Welcome Elliot...we as Carolina fans and family, are excited to see you play. GDTBATH!!!!!
I hope not. Hubert has not shown a willingness to play a deep bench. Maybe that’s been out of necessity but regardless, I’ll continue to think he won’t until he does. So with that thought in mind, we just brought a bunch of guys in. If they don’t play because they’re relegated to riding the pine in favor of high school seniors, chemistry and team culture will be shaky. Plus, if everybody comes this year, then our great class for next year isn’t so great.
I’ll take a stab at it. Disclaimer: this is how I would divvy up the minutes; not how I think Hubert will.
Cadeau - 26
RJ - 30
Ryan - 25
Ingram - 26
Bacot - 28
Withers - 18
Wilcher - 14
Trimble - 14
Washington- 14
High - 5
Knowing Hubert.
Cadeau -37
Rj - 38
Ryan - 32
Ingram- 31
Bacor - 39
Withers- 8
Wilcher- 4
Trimble - 5
Washington - 1
High - 1
Very similar to my thinking. But if I'm parsing that right, that means we'll be playing a good bit of small ball.
Figuring 120 minutes at PG and wings, Cadeau, RJ, Ryan Wilcher and Trimble account for 109. Meaning Ingram is only playing 11 minutes at SF and Ryan may end up playing all of his minutes at SF.
I'd rather Ryan and Wilcher play mostly SG, but with Cadeau at point, RJ is going to eat a lot of those SG minutes.
The battle between Wilcher and Trimble for PT could get interesting. Hopefully it will be friendly and benefit both for 2024.
I like the optimism but I need to see how the coaching plays out before I can call us a final 4 favorite. I also need to see how the bench is utilized and what “system” were going to run. This announcement certainly makes us a contender if all goes well with everything from coaching to personnel usage to guys staying healthy.
I think in most years this is a second weekend team. I wouldn't call it a Final Four favorite. Final four might not be out of the question though, especially if there's some chaos in the bracket.
I'll reserve my expectations for a freshman PG. He obviously makes us better, but I don't think this is a particularly talented roster. And I'm not sure there's any PG that can elevate everyone on the roster to such drastic degree. Kendall Marshall was playing with pros. He made them better college players, but those dudes were NBA bound at some point.
Right now, I don't see a contender because I think the talent is limited. Also, it's a roster that hasn't really won much throughout their careers apart from our run 2 years ago. The bench usage will be interesting. I have no idea what to expect from there.
One question. Can Cadeau shoot the 3 well as of right now? Not "he has good form" "he can shoot it if he gets hot" "he can shoot it on days that begin with a T" "he's a good free throw shooter, so that means he can shoot it well from 3." Can he shoot the 3 well?
Of course I want the best results on the court, but my biggest hope for next season is Cadeau running the show like a true floor general and for the staff to abandon the philosophy of recruiting combo guards in the hope of converting them into point guards.
With Elliot and the additions of Harrison Ingram and Cormac Ryan I feel very confident to say that the ball and player movement we have been missing from Carolina basketball will be back, we struggled so much in that area and Elliot infuses that directly into our team.
Armando is the guy that I am thinking about the most - not just in him getting the ball in transition running the floor but also getting the ball right away when he seals his man and gets his positioning. How many times last year was Armando in position to score and the ball just never got there (you better believe that wore on him too.
Armando is the guy that I am thinking about the most - not just in him getting the ball in transition running the floor but also getting the ball right away when he seals his man and gets his positioning. How many times last year was Armando in position to score and the ball just never got there (you better believe that wore on him too.
This group needs to play freelance/motion. Period.
This group needs to play freelance/motion/uptempo/94 feet/40 minutes. Period
FIFY
He def helps bacot. He helps RJ. Depending on substitution patterns...it may have just sent some others farther down the bench. IF we dont play 9-10 deep with all the talent we have we are a marginal team. Stanford wasnt a team that scared anyone. Louisville scared NO ONE. ND wasnt scaring anyone. Wilcher is the second best player on his team (I hope that he does great cuz I like his game) So we took the second best player on each of those teams and are matching them up with the remains of our team that was pretty bad. We return RJ and Bacot from a starting lineup that scared no one (after the initial prognosticators said we were the write-in candidates for national champion). We have a long way to prove we are "elite". Trimble and Washington are pretty much the bench we return. One cant shoot and one hasnt been ready to really show what he can do. So many question marks. So much potential, but chemistry and coaching will be the reason this team can be special. If Hubert runs a 6-7 person team...we will be bad again. We have athletes at every position. We can go deep into our bench, if he wants to. It is vital to build the team for the future. "The future is now", cant be the slogan for success.
Cadeau
RJ
Ryan
Ingram
Bacot
Should be our starters.
Withers
Trimble
Wilcher
Wojcik
Washington
High
With that bench you could have another all def team to harrass the other team and wear them down. We should press more often (which we cant do if we just play 7 players). Trimble Wilcher and Wojcik are hustle players. Withers, Washington and High are long and cause some issues defensively. Use em. Use them ALL. Build some experience or we will just be a team that reloads every year from the portal around some decent recruits. Cadeau makes us better. I think we can all agree. But I dont see (or want to see another rendition of the Cole Anthony or Joseph Forte show.)
Cadeau
RJ
Ryan
Ingram
Bacot
Should be our starters.
Withers
Trimble
Wilcher
Wojcik
Washington
High
With that bench you could have another all def team to harrass the other team and wear them down. We should press more often (which we cant do if we just play 7 players). Trimble Wilcher and Wojcik are hustle players. Withers, Washington and High are long and cause some issues defensively. Use em. Use them ALL. Build some experience or we will just be a team that reloads every year from the portal around some decent recruits. Cadeau makes us better. I think we can all agree. But I dont see (or want to see another rendition of the Cole Anthony or Joseph Forte show.)
Yes, wish I could like this times 1,000 ! Please do a pod cast explaining why this is so important as well as why working on free lance in practice is so vital. Love to see that include what happened to our UNC breaking, why we really have not seen it and why next season we may see it's return. If the explain is that it is hard to run a breaking scheme when you play so little of your bench, which is some what understandable if you are trying to play guys that can shoot out of a spread but if you realize the spread is not working with the group that you have, those guys on the bench that are or were not great shooters could have sure been fresh legs that could run the court in a higher tempo game. I would really love to get a better understanding of Hubert's reasoning on 2 aspects that I think are critical. First, why, if the vast majority of our called set plays broke down to free lance, why didn't we work on free lance in practice?
2nd, how is it that after being Roy's assistant for what, 8yrs or so, after coaching the JV teams (which I did not see play so I don't know what style they used when Hubert coached them) that we have gone from the Roy's ramp the pace up and run run run to a bogged down set play heavy half court offense that relied on shooting with a team that simply was a poor jump shooting team? I can some what see the argument from Hubert that they seemed to him to be a really good shooting team in practice but that simply did not translate to games. At some point any coach would have to conclude that we simply are not the shooting team I thought we were so my spread can not work like it should, I have to go to plan B and Roy showed him a heck of a plan B in those years he was Roy's assistant.
Now, with Cadeau officially on board for next season he clearly has to start at the point and that moves RJ off the ball where he needs to be so RJ starts at the 2. I prefer Trimble to back up Cadeau at the point who ever wins the minutes between Ryan and Wilcher to back up RJ, give Ryan some minutes as a small ball 3. Ingram has to be your starting 3, he is a physical mismatch for most wings, broad body, very good physical strength for a 3, puts the ball on the floor well for a guy his size, loves to back down a weaker defender and force the defense to commit another defender to him and then consistently looks to pass it to our open guy, in other words he sets up the help defense and actively looks to burn them for vacating his team mate. He is an excellent open look jump shooter out past the 3pt arch and excellent defender and rebounder on both ends. That is my starting 3 with no hesitation.
At the 4 I am starting Withers, I think folks are sleeping in him a bit. Good size, runs the court well, Cadeau will find him a lot because the kid makes great cuts thru the lane and stays really active. When he and Cadeau sink up he could well become a favored target for a ton of Cadeau assists because he wil find himself wide open, I mean who else are you going to help off of to challenge Bacot inside and what happens when Bacot is able to play and not have double and triple teams coming at him like they did last season and guards not just willing but actively looking to feed him? And of course Bacot starts at the 5.
Small ball, which is what you have if your put Ingram at the 4, can work but it is more risky. I love the small ball look at something you move in to during the game as a change of pace, a curve ball from a fast ball pitcher, bread and butter is the heater but you throw the curve to set up that heater. I feel like the 4 is well manned by Withers and Washington and BOTH can stretch so why go small to stretch when you can stay big and still stretch? You don't, you go small to get a speed and quickness change of pace. Want a defensive change up, put Seth in with Cadeau and Ingram with Washington's length and Bacot's size. We have sol many different looks we can now throw at opponents, we can run the same plays and they look vastly different because each player that comes in plays in a different way that the guy that checked out. Example, we pull RJ and put Ryan in and the 2 guard spot you have to defend differently even when we are giving the very same look.
At the 4 I am starting Withers, I think folks are sleeping in him a bit. Good size, runs the court well, Cadeau will find him a lot because the kid makes great cuts thru the lane and stays really active. When he and Cadeau sink up he could well become a favored target for a ton of Cadeau assists because he wil find himself wide open, I mean who else are you going to help off of to challenge Bacot inside and what happens when Bacot is able to play and not have double and triple teams coming at him like they did last season and guards not just willing but actively looking to feed him? And of course Bacot starts at the 5.
Small ball, which is what you have if your put Ingram at the 4, can work but it is more risky. I love the small ball look at something you move in to during the game as a change of pace, a curve ball from a fast ball pitcher, bread and butter is the heater but you throw the curve to set up that heater. I feel like the 4 is well manned by Withers and Washington and BOTH can stretch so why go small to stretch when you can stay big and still stretch? You don't, you go small to get a speed and quickness change of pace. Want a defensive change up, put Seth in with Cadeau and Ingram with Washington's length and Bacot's size. We have sol many different looks we can now throw at opponents, we can run the same plays and they look vastly different because each player that comes in plays in a different way that the guy that checked out. Example, we pull RJ and put Ryan in and the 2 guard spot you have to defend differently even when we are giving the very same look.
I think last year we didn't play more freelance and run because the team lacked basketball IQ in a major way. With the addition of Cadaue, Ryan, and Ingram, our basketball IQ goes through the roof! We have a PG who will reward runners whereas last year we didn't.
I PRAY this team is the return of Carolina basketball!!
I PRAY this team is the return of Carolina basketball!!
We just recorded a pod on this, it will roll out this week as one of our Daily Drops. In fact, we recorded a few drops this morning each of which center around Cadeau. That's why today's hasn't been posted yet, Jacob is editing it right now.
Thank you, no matter what changes in college basketball a pure PG is needed. We watched Caleb, and RJ struggle last year struggle when they were called upon to get the "team" going because most combo guards think it's time for them to score.
Hate to say it, but the pressure is now on RJ to produce at the SG position, and I would have concerns about that. Interesting can't wait to see us on the court, I have tons of questions about this team, but I see potential to be good.
OK but here is the problem, we actually did play a lot of free lance, not because we wanted to but because the set plays bogged down, what do you think we went to when our set plays bogged down?
And why did our set plays bog down you ask, RJ told ya, AJ reported it, we all watched it, the other team knew our set plays at times better than we did. So if again, as reported by AJ, the majority of our offensive trips down court is a called set play and the defense stops that set play, the only remaining option being free lance and STOP right there! Does that not common sense add up to our playing free lance offense but do so later into the shot clock (time ticking off trying to execute the set play that is stopped? That means the vast majority of what you end up doing is free lance and yet you do not really work on free lance in practice, again as shared by RJ Davis and reported right here in multiple pod casts from AJ, WHY was practice not featuring our free lance principles, you have to practice that, free lance is not street ball.
Running the ball, high tempo game, Roy's bread a butter, great but you don't do that playing basically 6 guys or 5 like the season before last. Legs simply wear down over the course of the season, if you don't use your bench you are not going to run any more than you have to.
LOL, geez, now that is what I call responding to a request! LOL I mean, I make the request and an hour later the pod has already been done and Jacob is now editing it? That is giving the customer what he wants right there if I ever saw it! Yeah, I realize you had already done it and I was lucky enough to ask for something you had just cut but still, let me praise ya OK! LOL
Is Trimble a good choice for backup PG? In a vacuum, sure.
I have high hopes for Trimble but, to me, the question isn't whether he can do a good job at backing up at PG - it's whose minutes is he taking? In other words, if RJ is the guy who backs up at point, which other teammate gets to play more?
At first blush, if RJ backs up at PG for, say, 12 minutes per game, that's 12 minutes that Ryan or Wilcher could be playing at SG.
So the real question is whether you'd rather have 12 minutes of Ryan (or Wilcher) or 12 minutes of Trimble.
Another way to think about it is whether a Trimble-RJ backcourt is better or a RJ-Ryan backcourt is better. Which would you rather have on the floor. I'm going with RJ-Ryan. Or if that doesn't work for some reason, I'll take RJ-Wilcher.
Unless Trimble has improved a good bit, I think 12 more minutes of Ryan probably makes a better team. Unless maybe we need D at that moment, in which case Trimble could be the better choice.
Very good question, thought provoking, that is what I like! You have seen me say on multiple occasions, it is my sincere wish that I have seen the last of RJ at the point, to the same level that I am glad to no longer have to endure watching Nance as a stretch 4 or Leaky Black as a jump shooter!
Now when Cadeau sits I want Seth to back him up, but a bunch of reasons but for this I will limit it to just 3 major reasons.
1) With both Cadeau and RJ starting, when Cadeau sits I want fresh legs at the point and that means I want either Seth or Wilcher to take the point, love Wilcher's decision making, defense, and how hard he plays, all with a really good bball IQ, I think he has that pass first mindset I want my PG to have. I think Seth has all of that as well and he isn't a freshman, I like Wilcher more as a 2 than I do Seth (I think Wilcher jump shoots a little better than Seth). I want speed and quickness, ball handling ability, wrapped together with a high basketball IQ at the point, that is of course Cadeau but I think it is Seth as well. Example, very clearly now that Cadeau is set to play for us next season, he is by far the quickest and fastest guy with the ball we will have but in my view right behind him is Seth. Those 2 are my PGs, no questions asked.
2) Fast breaks...pretty much been MIA for the last 2 seasons, have watched far to often yet another UNC break called off and here we go right back in to pounding the ball east and west for the next 20 seconds until someone named Caleb has to take yet another long hard well guarded prayer from 40' out. You are not going to be able to keep Cadeau from pushing the BREAKS any more than it seems Hubert was able to stop RJ from pushing the BRAKES (see what I did there with the spelling of breaks). But the breaking game is also what Trimble wants to play in where he can use his crazy athletism quickness and speed to either finish above the rim or slip it to a trailer, or push it and be the trailer that slashes off the return pass. It was if we kept a governor on the kid last season, RJ had the ball and called off the breaks where Seth would have finished them.
3) Just simple PG basketball IQ, being aggressive but being smart in your decisions, and realize you are running the team, it is your responsibility to get your mates involved even if it reduces your own scoring looks. Simply put, when RJ drove he was pretty much exclusively looking to finish himself, when Seth drove his first thought was to draw and set up a pass to a open teammate. Seth is a North to South player, he is not about east and west, RJ as a PG was far to much east west wasting seconds on the shot clock. That is not a ding on RJ BTW, it is just ingrained in how a kid plays, RJ just has always been a go to scorer and I don't know that he can or even should change that, it is a great mindset for a 2 guard, it isn't the best thing for a PG in my opinion.
Now I do admit to one concern, I don't know if we are better with RJ or Ryan at the 2, I mean we all know that RJ is now our starting 2, no mystery left about that, but should that be the case is a different thing. Ryan will play and as does most every season, things will sort themselves out even if it takes a player having to leave the team to go be with a "sick family member" (did ya get my snide Garcia reference, if not it was there in plain sight ;-).
Oh and you asked which one of those back courts I liked more, I think I like the Trimble/Ryan back court slightly more (note Cadeau was not listed in the back courts choices that I am responding to). I do because I think Seth would set Ryan up for better looks than he would get from RJ. I believe Ryan was a 40% 3pt shooter when he had a PG that got him cleaner looks than he got last season. But let me add, RJ was a much better shooter last season when he didn't have his fingers wrapped due to sprains, believe AJ shared that RJ was a near 50% 3pt shooter last season when his fingers were not wrapped, so do consider that.
Dee, I guess I should have been more specific when referring to freelance. You are 100% correct in the freelance resulting from broken plays. I'm referring more to heavy use of the primary and secondary fast break in attacking defenses before they are set. The more buckets we get from that the less pressure to operate in a half court set. The other portion of the equation is, even in a half court set, we have players who can more adaptively create for themselves and their teammates. Teammates. The basketball IQ portion reveals itself in spacing and anticipation of passing lanes. How many times did we all watch? Mondo pin his man only to have one of our guards dribble until the ball went flat. By the time they went to get it to him, he was no longer open.
I guess I would also recognize the difference between panicking at the end of the shot clock because the defense blew your play up and an actual freelance, movement style offense with players who can shoot well enough to spread the floor and you are smart enough to recognize and make passes to open cutters.
I don't disagree with what you said about our plays blowing up and freelancing after. I do think we got a ton better with the pieces that we have, the key being EC to run it all together. Can't wait for the season! Go heels!
Yeah, I think we are pretty much on the same page about this. I think main reason I replied as I did is that it feels many times to me like folks don't really understand free lance, that they see it more like catch as catch can street ball like, aka Ky for example, with the whose turn is it now to drive and try to finish? LOL
Free lance is a very structured set of principles that give you multiple options that players are supposed to flow in to, more of a motion type offense as opposed to go to this spot or set that screen no matter what the defense is doing set play deal. You have to constantly practice free lance to ingrain the core principles and to know the options, it isn't roll the ball out and play. I think the term free lance misleads a lot of folks and I wanted to address that. I did because the majority of our trips ended up with our needing to play free lance and we were not practicing it as much as we needed to, per RJ we didn't practice it much at all and it clearly showed.
Not to be a downer, but here's a question I would like to hear people weigh in on....
What if Cadeau is merely good?
What if Cadeau is merely good?
The chances of Cadeau not being All ACC at least are very slim but......I have stated on many occasions that this team is deep, good and built well enough to withstand anyone falling down! Bacot is the closest thing we have to an absolute need. But we have at least 2 of everything else
Hmmm…. What if this year, statistically, is the most down year in the history of prep basketball… enough so that the most outstanding point guard, putting up ridiculous numbers, looks better than he really is?
What if him looking composed and totally under control while playing for the Swedish National men’s team wasn’t really him being good…. Just everyone else was bad?
I’m not buying it.
But, if Cadeau is ‘merely good’, he’ll still be an improvement on any point guard option UNC has had since Coby White… or for that matter, Joel Berry (can’t count Cole due to the injuries)
Then life as a Tar Heel fan would suck! LOL
No, way to many experts, folks that make a living projecting this stuff, David Sisk being just 1 example, would have to admit they don't really know what they are talking about and I assure you that is not the case. Just so it is clear, I think David Sisk is the gold standard for what he does, big time respect for him from me, he alone is worth the price of a premium membership.
As for Cadeau, honestly, I rate him above kendal, I rate him above Ty or Raymond, I think he is Easy Eddy with more scoring ability. If he played for us for 3yrs I would really have to question who is the best UNC PG I have ever seen, means I would have to put him right there with Phil Ford and that is not been possible, until maybe with this kid, he is that special folks! Note, we will not get 3yrs from this kid. If he stayed with UNC for his full eligibility I think he would leave with more than 1 NCAA National Championship ring. The experts I have seen seem to all consider this kid to be a generational talent, meaning you only get one of those per generation and we got this one.
Last edited:
Similar threads
