Harrison Ingram Commits To UNC

[DSouthr]

I know what you're saying , but we'd almost have to be, wouldn't we?

What other teams would be in the running? I know, hard to tell yet, with more moves to be made. But we'd have to be one of the odds-on favorites, I'd think.

OTOH, what journalist is going to have the balls to rank us #1 again, so soon?

WE will not be ranked #1 out of the gate this season, we may not even be in the top 10, I don't know that they can not have us at very least top 20. I honestly believe there are a lot in the sport media world that simply do not like UNC. I do think there were many that enjoyed the chance to stomp on us last season, don't know if it the perception of UNC fans they do not like or what but the media does not love us nearly as much as they love duke or Ky.

I’m legit curious, what specifically don’t you like about RJ at the one? You mentioned 3 years of proof, but I’m not sure what you’re referring to. I can see him playing the 2, but I guess I’ve never thought of him as a bad 1.

No problem, be glad to speak to that. I have watched for 3 seasons UNC traditional breaks be available but called off by our guards and settle in to yet another half court set. Once in that half court set I have watched the ball be pounded thru the floor, every catch seems to require a dribble or 3 around the horn with little to no purpose with very little effort to actually move the defense, in fact it played in to the defense's natural rotations, very little ball reversal, just pound the rock till there is 5sec or so on the clock and then someone has to create a hard shot.

Your PG in most any offense is your QB on the floor, they set the stage, it is your PG that sets up another attack when your primary attack is stopped. But we didn't do that, you watched last season, the primary attack stopped we had nothing but some hero shot at the end. That is what you get when your PG is not looking to pass. Did you see a lot of RJ driving and kicking it to a spot up shooter and when you did, who was that shooter, Leaky, Nance? Point guard has to know his team mates, has to know where a guy needs the ball to be successful, has to know who and where his shooters are.

I am not at all saying RJ was a bad player for us, not at all saying that, I am saying he was a player badly out of position. RJ can create for himself, he was one of only 2 guys we had that could, everyone else needed help to score and it is the PG's role to set them up for easy looks most times from passing to their sweet spots, where they like the ball, in ways that force the defense to move.

Someone a week or 2 ago gave a link to one of our old games, what was beautiful in that game was just how often we went in to half court sets where the ball rarely and at times never touched the floor, how often have you seen that over the last 3years? We have not been able to move the ball for the last 3yrs without pounding it on the floor, you need your PG to initiate that great ball movement, that PURPOSFUL ball movement, way to many passes around the horn last 3yrs that had no continuity, really no purpose, all they did was waste clock time until the hero shot had to be taken. The whole team far to often looking like a boat with out a rudder, no real plan no real direction.

Now is that exclusively on RJ, no, his team mates did little to help, granted the coaching was suspect because you just can't allow the same thing that has not been working to continue. RJ is fone when he is creating for himself, good shooter and if they get to tight in to him is able and willing to put it in the floor and drive the pressure, does not mind sacrificing his body, kid is hard nosed for sure. But what I just described is the role of a 2 guard, not a PG.

In 3 seasons as our starting PG and keep in mind one of those seasons being with Roy as the head coach, you have seen the same things. You can't exclusively blame Hubert because Roy was also the coach in that 3yrs. Yet we didn't run effectively even in that season under Roy. We had exactly 1 good run of games that started the game before the last duke game at Cameron, got beat in the ACCT, and then ran a hot streak to the natty game. Love got hot for a nice string of games, RJ got hot at the same time, and of course Brady stepped up huge. You see many times, teams get on a hot streak and sometimes it continues for a while. Our hot streak just happened to start with very few ACC teams left for us to play. IN the NCAAT we played teams that were not as used to us as ACC teams were and we had guys shooting hot. Because the ball was going in they hunkered down on defense to, it was a fun time for us all but did any of it carry over to this past season, no, what carried over was the poor play from that NCAAT season. Hubert went as far as feel he had to call a set play on nearly every possession last season, know why a coach feels he has to do something like that, it is because he does not trust his PG to get his team in to an effective set that gives them a good chance to score, it is what you do as a UNC coach when your team is absolutely lost in free lance where your PG has to make make good decisions.

If you have watched a lot of UNC ball then when I ask, what would Joel have done if his team mates did not work on the offensive end for good position, you would see him climb all over that guy not moving, your PG has to direct things on the floor yet we have now had 3yrs of little direction, almost like 5 guys doing 5 different things and just is not how UNC ball is played. The sad part is I watched more UNC ball be played in the last natty game than I have seen from UNC in far to long, that has to change, it wasn't all Caleb's fault, he seems to be the convenient scape goat, had he stayed and RJ left RJ would have been the scape goat. I am not looking to scape goat RJ, I want him playing at the position his game better fits and that is creating for himself, looking for his own scoring while a real PG sets everything up.

 

[Assasin3200]

I knew we were a bad shooting team, but the Miami game was icing on the cake and just had me shaking my head. 5-31 from 3. John Stockton coudn't even have even fixed our shooting woes. If you watched every game, you would have seen wide open after wide open looks being bricked. You would have also noticed all the wide open looks due to teams packing it in on Bacot.

As i said in the post you so quickly dismissed. PART of our problem was the pass to the open shooter. A bad pass interupts a shooters rythm even when your open. In my opinion we didn't pass well to our open shooters which made those shots harder. We can improve by getting better shooters but we if the pass to the shooter is piss poor we can end up with the same results as last year. RJ was a part of this problem as the primary ball handler in my opinion. A higher percentage on open shots is what im looking for.

 

[Sk1310]

As i said in the post you so quickly dismissed. PART of our problem was the pass to the open shooter. A bad pass interupts a shooters rythm even when your open. In my opinion we didn't pass well to our open shooters which made those shots harder. We can improve by getting better shooters but we if the pass to the shooter is piss poor we can end up with the same results as last year. RJ was a part of this problem as the primary ball handler in my opinion. A higher percentage on open shots is what im looking for.

I get what your saying, but I just didn't see it that way. Manek made shots because he could shoot, and RJ was the PG.

 

[DSouthr]

He kicked out to wide open shooters a lot. They just didn't generally make them.

You have to know your players, kicking it out to Leaky when he is open in the deep corner when the defense wants the ball kicked to Leaky in the deep corner and leaky take the shot? ONLY time that is a good decision is when there is very little time left on the clock. Frankly, more often when RJ kicked it or tried to kick it to another player was when his drive got stopped and he had no choice, passed it from panic more than purpose. That is exactly why Hubert felt he had to call so many set plays because in free lance where the PG sets things up just was embarrassing. Look how many hard shots this team had to settle for last season. You hit a team mate in his sweet spot, in his shooting pocket, where he has time to get his shot off and shooting % have a funny way of spiking up, don't do that and they have this funny way of dropping thru the floor.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

In 3 seasons as our starting PG

It could be argued he wasn't our starting guard as a frosh. They split duty, but Caleb was more in the PG role. Heck, RJ only started 10 games that year - none after Jan 5 - because we needed Walton at SG. How could he be the starting PG?

At some point early in year 2, Hubert handed RJ the job. I suspect that was more because he thought Caleb would be a better scorer without having to handle PG duties, but I don't really know. Nor can I say how well it worked, except that eventually things started clicking a lot better. Caleb's outside shooting did, in fact, get a lot better (26.6 to 36.0%). But that could just have been normal frosh-to-soph growth. Or it could have been the Manek effect. But RJ at PG worked reasonably well with enough outside shooters on the floor.

And that last bit is why I feel good about RJ at point for the coming season. Shooters on the floor.

The thing I worry about if RJ is not our PG is whether he will get enough touches - especially touches when he's in good shooting position. Playing off the ball might actually make him a better shooter. But will that be a net plus if he isn't shooting very much? If Cadeau comes on board, we may find out.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Our shooting woes partially came from lazy set up passing this year in my opinion. RJ doesn't set up shooters well and neither did Love. We had a team of lazy passers that never set up the open shooter to shoot in rythm. Cadeau would help fix this aswell as our transition game.

Dude, we missed an absolute ton of wide open 3s this year. In rhythm, wide open, brick.

You can't blame that on anyone but the shooters. Love, Nance, Black, Puff, Nickel... all missed most of their wide open 3s.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

As i said in the post you so quickly dismissed. PART of our problem was the pass to the open shooter. A bad pass interupts a shooters rythm even when your open. In my opinion we didn't pass well to our open shooters which made those shots harder. We can improve by getting better shooters but we if the pass to the shooter is piss poor we can end up with the same results as last year. RJ was a part of this problem as the primary ball handler in my opinion. A higher percentage on open shots is what im looking for.

I mostly agree, and here's my 2 cents....

Caleb was particularly bad at pulling shooters off their spot with his passes. It happened sometimes with RJ, too, but less often.

We think that problem will go away with Cadeau, but who knows? He's a talented frosh who's accustomed to playing with talented players - but he's still a frosh, and he hasn't faced UVa-level defense.

The other side of passing to shooters is getting the ball to them while they are actually open. An off center pass lets the D catch up, and a late pass means the D is already there. This year I saw a lot of time and effort wasted trying to force the ball to Armando when either he couldn't get open or wasn't in his comfort zone. All that time Pete or Puff would be open, but when we finally gave up on Armando, the D was in Pete's face and he had to take a hard shot.

I blame that on coaching. RJ and Caleb were doing what they were told to do. Get the ball inside. And it just wasn't working. As players and commentators have observed ~"everyone knew what we were trying to do, and everyone knew what we were going to do next..."~

With Manek on the floor, 2 things were very different. Not only did you have to cover him - making it easier to get the ball to Armando - but when he got the ball he was practically already shooting. Pete needed longer to gather and shoot, yet we were often getting him the ball with the defender in his grill. It's surprising he shot as well as he did.

 

[Archer2]

Ugh. As long as we don't start the season ranked #1.

No kidding. And we won’t.

OR with SI cover shoots! LOL

Worst decision ever?

 

[gary-7]

I don’t know about that. If Marshall is passing it more to Love, Black, Nance than RJ did then I think it would’ve been a disaster.

I guess an argument can be made that Marshall helped Bullock, Henson, Zeller all become first round picks. But he was passing it to much more talented players.

Just hafta laugh. Any player going from getting few (if any) good passes to getting them regularly (and in spots thay can do something with them) will be better than they were before by default. I really SMH at how some of y'all don't get that simple fact.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Welcome to the Family, Mr. Ingram!

 

[tarwhiz]

Yeah, you didn't watch many games

Nothing he said here was wrong. That may not be the sole reason they couldn't make shots, but it was a factor. Very few passes in the shooting pocket and terrible post feeds.
Not sure how much YOU watched if you want to dispute his comment?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

View embedded media

That's encouraging. I was worried that he might not help spread the floor very much at 31%, but if this is for real, and he takes more of his treys as catch and shoot, then I'm happy.

 

[DSouthr]

Just hafta laugh. Any player going from getting few (if any) good passes to getting them regularly (and in spots thay can do something with them) will be better than they were before by default. I really SMH at how some of y'all don't get that simple fact.

A funny have to laugh moment for me is each time I see this notion of UNC got a lot of open shots last season, they just didn't knock them down. When I think about that I just want to ask WHO was getting those wide open shots because it wasn't RJ or Caleb, they had to work for the shots they got and the ones they got were not typically easy. So who was getting them, 3 more starters on the court, oh but 1 of those starters rarely shot jumpers, he was deep in the paint, being swarmed by defenders, Bacot. So it must have been one of the other 2 getting those wide open shots yeah? Those other 2 are Nance and Leaky and guys defenses actually game planned to give Leaky many of those open looks and frankly they didn't really worry all that much if Nance got a clean look from outside. No, defenses elected to double off Leaky first but did Nance as well if they needed to and well, the proof was in the puddin as to how smart that was in any individual game. Not to even mention once RJ or Caleb put their head down to drive, it was a safe money bet they were driving to finish as their option A, option B, and most of the time option C! LOL I mean those 2 fellas consistently drove or tried to drive thru double teams, they had their defender hawking the dribble and a big man coming from the off side to harass the shot. They call that opening the door and then slamming it shut, it is baiting a trap and we fell for it time and time again. That coming from our 2 primary PGs, from two 3yr starters?

This team today is more set to win games than the team we had all last season and the why of that is really not hard to understand. The whole key to what Hubert was trying to do on offense was to space the court, space out the defense and create driving lanes (if defense doubles kick to the wide open jump shooter but we only had 2 of those on the floor most times and one of those 2 was the ball handler so that leaves only 1 guy to kick it back out to that is a seriolus shooter, think maybe defenses already knew that ;-)) and less congestion in the paint so either the drive could work or Bacot would be open to finish at the rim. The problem was that Hubert did not have the team for that to happen, had the wrong type of players, we had guys that better fit what Roy wanted than what Hubert wanted (example, 2 centers on the floor together, what we used to love as our UNC twin towers). I think Hubert felt be could hammer those square pegs in to round holes and al he got was hammered pegs that didn't fit anything.

On the offensive end it is addition by subtraction now that Leaky and Nance (not to impune either guy but the fact is their weakness on the offensive end did hurt us bad) are gone but even more important is that BOTH have now been replaced with MUCH MUCH better shooters and I do not think, now with Ingram in fold, it costs us much if at all on the defensive end, even as great a defender as Leaky was. Especially true when Cadeau comes, our back court with the addition of Cadeau and Wilcher, as well as with Seth, has some serious guard defenders that can take opposing teams out of what they have been doing to us in all the drive and kicking, these kids need far less help that last years guards did. Now we should be able to legit spread the court which is exactly what Hubert is intent on having. He now has shooters 2 and at some spots 3 deep, he has really good middle length, and the basketball IQ of this group is SPECIAL, really really special. I am excited!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I don’t know about that. If Marshall is passing it more to Love, Black, Nance than RJ did then I think it would’ve been a disaster.

I guess an argument can be made that Marshall helped Bullock, Henson, Zeller all become first round picks. But he was passing it to much more talented players.

Kendall was a great passer. He was also pretty selective about his targets. I would argue he helped Zeller and Henson a lot, but did little to help Barnes or Bullock. He was always trying to set up Zeller and Henson; he was more often passing to Barnes and Bullock when he had to get rid of the ball and Z&H weren't open. In other words, he emphasized getting the ball to Z&H when they could produce. That didn't happen so much with B&B. Not saying he jammed up B&B. He was still a good passer, after all. But there was no special help for the wings.

Maybe that's an oversimplification, but basically true, I think. B&B got KM assists because they could shoot. Z&H got KM assists because he delivered the ball to them where and when they could score.

The guy who would have benefited most if we had KM at point this season would have been Nance. Armando, too, but especially Pete. Not Leaky, because he was already getting open looks. It would have been interesting to see if RJ or Caleb would have gotten any benefit. I'm not so sure.

 

[DSouthr]

That's encouraging. I was worried that he might not help spread the floor very much at 31%, but if this is for real, and he takes more of his treys as catch and shoot, then I'm happy.

Couple things about Ingram, first is he was at worst the #2 guy opposing defense looked to stop for Stanford but for us he will be our what, 4th or 5th option as a scorer? That means a LOT of cleaner looks. Second, kid is simply an outstanding passer, especially for a big wing. I read recently, his assist % exceeded any guard we have had going back to Kendal, not giving that as fact but sharing what I read on another site. He uses that really strong body to back a defender down and gives himself options to either finish or see the double coming and pass it to the open guy. He is not a high volume shot taker but he is involved with a LOT of shot makes, that is exciting. All this yet, while not Leaky as a defender, he isn't as far away from Leaky level as you may think, kid uses that really nice size and strength well defensively and hits the boards nice. That Ingram/Withers combination on the floor together (they would be my starting 3 and 4) are near bookends and then I think of Puff and his 205lbs out there getting shoved around every step, that is not going to happen much with Ingram and Withers.

It isn't me feeling that Ingram is the next MJ, it is more HOW HE FITS WHAT WE NEEDED! A team of players that fit together beats a more talented team that doesn't if the talent gap is not the grand canyon. This team fits together and it fits together in the way it appears Hubert needs his team to fit, it all starts with spreading the court, we can do that now. Just think, we were able to spread it some when Brady really came on, near the later part of that NCAA team season. That was with having to hide Leaky on the offensive end and no back up for Bacot at all. Now we don't even need to hide a single player on the offensive end, how much more efficient will that make us, IDK but I can't wait to see!

 

[Sk1310]

Nothing he said here was wrong. That may not be the sole reason they couldn't make shots, but it was a factor. Very few passes in the shooting pocket and terrible post feeds.
Not sure how much YOU watched if you want to dispute his comment?

ME!!!??

I already responded. Keep up.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Just hafta laugh. Any player going from getting few (if any) good passes to getting them regularly (and in spots thay can do something with them) will be better than they were before by default. I really SMH at how some of y'all don't get that simple fact.

Sorry man. I just think we sucked last year and a pass first PG passing it more to our crappy players wouldn't have done a whole lot. I don't think Leaky improves much if he got passes "into his shooting pocket." He's just a bad shooter.

Also, KM's defense wasn't a liability because he had one A+ rim protector with Henson and another above average one with Zeller. We had very little rim protection last year, so any deficiency on defense would've been a problem IMO.

Mainly, I just think we weren't all that good last year and none of them fit together. I don't think a limited shooting, pass first PG (as good as a pass first PG as he is) would've turned that thing into much more.

What do you think they could've been with KM? Second weekend NCAA tournament? Third weekend? What does tons better mean?

 

[ChiShankCity]

Kendall was a great passer. He was also pretty selective about his targets. I would argue he helped Zeller and Henson a lot, but did little to help Barnes or Bullock. He was always trying to set up Zeller and Henson; he was more often passing to Barnes and Bullock when he had to get rid of the ball and Z&H weren't open. In other words, he emphasized getting the ball to Z&H when they could produce. That didn't happen so much with B&B. Not saying he jammed up B&B. He was still a good passer, after all. But there was no special help for the wings.

Maybe that's an oversimplification, but basically true, I think. B&B got KM assists because they could shoot. Z&H got KM assists because he delivered the ball to them where and when they could score.

The guy who would have benefited most if we had KM at point this season would have been Nance. Armando, too, but especially Pete. Not Leaky, because he was already getting open looks. It would have been interesting to see if RJ or Caleb would have gotten any benefit. I'm not so sure.

People might be surprised, but if you compare 2012 when KM was the starter from day one to 2015-19 (comparable teams that made at least the S16)... The 2012 KM team's offensive efficiency was BY FAR the worst if you compare the 2015-19 years. And I think any reasonable person would say that 2012 KM team was by far the most talented UNC group since 2009.

2012: 116.5 adj offensive efficiency

2015: 121.2
2016: 124.3
2017: 121.6
2018: 121.0
2019: 120.8

The main reason is because all but one of those 2015-19 teams were substantially better 3PT shooting teams than the KM 2012 team. Ironically, the 2016 team led the nation in offensive efficiency, but couldn't shoot 3's, lol. But Brice Johnson had a super human year. He shot 86% on dunks/close 2's that year, lolol.

So I question taking away BY FAR our best shooter and replace him with KM would've made UNC any better last season.

Sorry this hypothetical kind of hijacked this thread too!

 

[JimmyinVA]

Sorry man. I just think we sucked last year and a pass first PG passing it more to our crappy players wouldn't have done a whole lot. I don't think Leaky improves much if he got passes "into his shooting pocket." He's just a bad shooter...

true for leaky, but the other guys stunk because they played playground one-on-one instead of working as a team for good shots. a playmaking point guard with a pass first mentality could be transformative.

 

[gary-7]

Sorry man. I just think we sucked last year and a pass first PG passing it more to our crappy players wouldn't have done a whole lot. I don't think Leaky improves much if he got passes "into his shooting pocket." He's just a bad shooter.

Also, KM's defense wasn't a liability because he had one A+ rim protector with Henson and another above average one with Zeller. We had very little rim protection last year, so any deficiency on defense would've been a problem IMO.

Mainly, I just think we weren't all that good last year and none of them fit together. I don't think a limited shooting, pass first PG (as good as a pass first PG as he is) would've turned that thing into much more.

What do you think they could've been with KM? Second weekend NCAA tournament? Third weekend? What does tons better mean?

Cling to a simplistic narrative if you wish. The reality is quite different

 

[gary-7]

People might be surprised, but if you compare 2012 when KM was the starter from day one to 2015-19 (comparable teams that made at least the S16)... The 2012 KM team's offensive efficiency was BY FAR the worst if you compare the 2015-19 years. And I think any reasonable person would say that 2012 KM team was by far the most talented UNC group since 2009.

2012: 116.5 adj offensive efficiency

2015: 121.2
2016: 124.3
2017: 121.6
2018: 121.0
2019: 120.8

The main reason is because all but one of those 2015-19 teams were substantially better 3PT shooting teams than the KM 2012 team. Ironically, the 2016 team led the nation in offensive efficiency, but couldn't shoot 3's, lol. But Brice Johnson had a super human year. He shot 86% on dunks/close 2's that year, lolol.

So I question taking away BY FAR our best shooter and replace him with KM would've made UNC any better last season.

Sorry this hypothetical kind of hijacked this thread too!

LMAO. Basketball is not a video game.

 

[gauchoheel]

LMAO. Basketball is not a video game.

Showing that we scored less points per offensive possession in 2012 than other years does not equate to turning basketball into a video game. Your comment is rude for SJung citing a relatively simple, easy to understand stat about what happened on the actual court.

 

[imajericho]

Showing that we scored less points per offensive possession in 2012 than other years does not equate to turning basketball into a video game. Your comment is rude for SJung citing a relatively simple, easy to understand stat about what happened on the actual court.

That team was very good defensively with two anchors in the paint and Barnes being so long.

The one thing I noticed about Marshall was he passed ahead a lot for very easy baskets with our bigs, but that good athletic teams would shut that down and cause those to be turnovers. Duke and Kentucky and such would completely cut out those down the court easy baskets. It forced us into a more half court set versus them and our offense was much less versatile of course when so.

 

[tarwhiz]

ME!!!??

I already responded. Keep up.

I am UP, if you responded appropriately the first time you wouldn't get called out.
Good day

 

[TPFKAPFS]

SDung is obfuscating by using an apparently easy to understand stat. The reality is that the numbers don't tell the entire story but they do give you a basis for comparison. A team that didn't make the tourney could have better efficiency than one that won it all, but that doesn't say which team is the better one and it certainly doesn't give enough info to determine whether individual players are better than others! Coaching, scheme, injury, camaraderie/chemistry, matchups, and just plain luck also factor and are impossible to quantify. Humans play the game and are never consistent; video game players always live up to their stats =G-7's comment!

Butter was a magician with the ball and putting him on last year's team would certainly have made a difference! Caleb, RJ, Leaky, and Nance would all have gotten passes in their shot pockets at the exact right moment to maximize their ability/rhythm. Leaky shot rhythm shots he didn't have to rush well and that would have happened more often! OR Butter would have found another guy who is open and who was in their rhythm spot! The team would have been able to run more and this would have increased the offensive effectiveness of all of them too! The thing you can't define is the impact of personal chemistry but everybody knows that the instinctive PGs make their teams better. Those that can be taught to be effective PGs need the team to already be built properly to thrive!

I'm optimistic because I think the new roster is built to thrive already and RJ has grown enough to lead it to much higher heights! Add Cadeau and it rises even faster!

 

[DaveChapelle]

LMAO. Basketball is not a video game.

But if it was, I would hope it was NCAA Basketball on Super Nintendo. Bc there was a UNC glitch.

 

[Sk1310]

I am UP, if you responded appropriately the first time you wouldn't get called out.
Good day

Called out? Hahaha. You're cute.

 

[ChiShankCity]

SDung is obfuscating by using an apparently easy to understand stat. The reality is that the numbers don't tell the entire story but they do give you a basis for comparison. A team that didn't make the tourney could have better efficiency than one that won it all, but that doesn't say which team is the better one and it certainly doesn't give enough info to determine whether individual players are better than others! Coaching, scheme, injury, camaraderie/chemistry, matchups, and just plain luck also factor and are impossible to quantify. Humans play the game and are never consistent; video game players always live up to their stats =G-7's comment!

Everyone will interpret injuries and chemistry in a way to aid their argument.

I know @gary-7 will disagree with me whenever I bring up certain numbers and that's ok. I recall bringing up our net rating when he (and I think @FlaTarHeel) said we can become the best team in the country after a win over like Louisville. I brought up net rating and was told it was a bunch of nothing, lol.

This isn't a video game??? Holy crap, I am now an enlightened person! Look, I just think we sucked last year. And I think Leaky is still bricking an open 3 even if the ball is delivered into his shooting pocket. Either that, or Leaky's release remains as slow as it is, so he never gets it off. lol

Also, we really romanticize about KM. He was an awesome player for us. But there's a myth surrounding that 2011-12 team that we were this unstoppable force. They weren't. We were a really good offensive team, but amongst all of Roy's teams, that was a bottom half offense. Really good team. Maybe they win it all if KM doesn't get hurt. But it wasn't an offensive juggernaut.

 

[gary-7]

Showing that we scored less points per offensive possession in 2012 than other years does not equate to turning basketball into a video game. Your comment is rude for SJung citing a relatively simple, easy to understand stat about what happened on the actual court.

Really? Ok, I'll refrain from telling you what I think of this silly post then.

 

[gary-7]

Everyone will interpret injuries and chemistry in a way to aid their argument.

I know @gary-7 will disagree with me whenever I bring up certain numbers and that's ok. I recall bringing up our net rating when he (and I think @FlaTarHeel) said we can become the best team in the country after a win over like Louisville. I brought up net rating and was told it was a bunch of nothing, lol.

This isn't a video game??? Holy crap, I am now an enlightened person! Look, I just think we sucked last year. And I think Leaky is still bricking an open 3 even if the ball is delivered into his shooting pocket. Either that, or Leaky's release remains as slow as it is, so he never gets it off. lol

Also, we really romanticize about KM. He was an awesome player for us. But there's a myth surrounding that 2011-12 team that we were this unstoppable force. They weren't. We were a really good offensive team, but amongst all of Roy's teams, that was a bottom half offense. Really good team. Maybe they win it all if KM doesn't get hurt. But it wasn't an offensive juggernaut.

Look, these arguments are tiresome and unhelpful..

No, we didn't just "suck" last season. There were individual players (including Leaky) who were more than capable of being part of a NCAAT team. So there are tangible reasons for the underachievment, and news flash, you can't simply ID those reasons by looking at stats post facto. Bottom line is a knowing eye screams that the lack of a PG was the biggest of the causal deficits. Hell, just a cursory watch of random possessions in any random game could --- or SHOULD --- tell ya that.

 

[DSouthr]

Sorry man. I just think we sucked last year and a pass first PG passing it more to our crappy players wouldn't have done a whole lot. I don't think Leaky improves much if he got passes "into his shooting pocket." He's just a bad shooter.

Also, KM's defense wasn't a liability because he had one A+ rim protector with Henson and another above average one with Zeller. We had very little rim protection last year, so any deficiency on defense would've been a problem IMO.

Mainly, I just think we weren't all that good last year and none of them fit together. I don't think a limited shooting, pass first PG (as good as a pass first PG as he is) would've turned that thing into much more.

What do you think they could've been with KM? Second weekend NCAA tournament? Third weekend? What does tons better mean?

What you saw last season didn't fit together because we were a team built for the running game that simply didn't run, that settled in to half court. Kendal's getting the ball and pushing it up court with the pass, we running. Funny thing, players will run the court hard if they know they will get the ball and the payoff score for their effort. But if they don't get that payoff push ahead pass they tend to realize they don't need to run the floor hard. Kendal delivers the pay off pass that rewards his mates for hustling down court.

That changes the entire dynamic of what we watched last season. Rather than be an after thought for example, a guy like Styles would flourish with his athletism. You would have seen a deeper bench, you can not Iron 5 and engage the running game. In half court offense you would see Kendal moving the ball with a purpose, guys would realize if I make a great cut thru the lane Kendal will find me in my pocket, many times Kendal will pass me open, I can't ball watch or hero watch because the ball will come to me, I have to be ready for it and I need to finish it.

How many times in the last 3yrs have you folks watched our guys seem to stand around waiting and watching for either RJ or Caleb go hero mode? Bacot spent more time looking to rebound, it many times was the best pass in to him. You wouldn't have seen that with kendal in that back court, you would see guys working for passing angles ready for the pass to finish. Kendal was a big PG and played with his head up, constantly watching the court, he knew where his mates were because he had the height to see over his defender, he was hard to double again, because he could see it coming as well as the open guy the second defender left. His ball fakes moved defenses, he didn't waste time doing things that had no purpose, you didn't see him pound the floor boards for no reason like we have watched for the last 3yrs.

No way this deserves to even be a debate if what you are selling is that Kendal would not have changed the way we played last season in a major way. It is like the difference between the back up QB and Drake Maye, it just is such a clear cut difference.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

FTR I didn't interpret injuries or chemistry or any of those distractions. I said in no uncertain terms that they make a difference in results and are not reflected by stat watching! KM was a natural PG and could easily be replaced by JB in this scenario and our team would have flourished! BTW: Roy's teams always became juggernauts when they played intense D no matter how many peeps want to say they "outscored" others! Without chemistry, injury, and temperament issues this team could have been one of the best in the country. This dysfunctional and poorly constructed team with a rookie HC was in every game (except for maybe 2) and was a poor decision; untimely brain fart; lack of focus away from winning the bulk of them! You add a floor general who is a leader and we come out ahead in most of them. Therefore, they were correct in saying the team had potential! I'm done with this silly argument!


BUT: this thread is about a great addition to our team so I welcome Mr. Ingram to the family and I know he will help restore UNC to its rightful place!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What you saw last season didn't fit together because we were a team built for the running game that simply didn't run, that settled in to half court. Kendal's getting the ball and pushing it up court with the pass, we running. Funny thing, players will run the court hard if they know they will get the ball and the payoff score for their effort. But if they don't get that payoff push ahead pass they tend to realize they don't need to run the floor hard. Kendal delivers the pay off pass that rewards his mates for hustling down court.

That changes the entire dynamic of what we watched last season. Rather than be an after thought for example, a guy like Styles would flourish with his athletism. You would have seen a deeper bench, you can not Iron 5 and engage the running game. In half court offense you would see Kendal moving the ball with a purpose, guys would realize if I make a great cut thru the lane Kendal will find me in my pocket, many times Kendal will pass me open, I can't ball watch or hero watch because the ball will come to me, I have to be ready for it and I need to finish it.

How many times in the last 3yrs have you folks watched our guys seem to stand around waiting and watching for either RJ or Caleb go hero mode? Bacot spent more time looking to rebound, it many times was the best pass in to him. You wouldn't have seen that with kendal in that back court, you would see guys working for passing angles ready for the pass to finish. Kendal was a big PG and played with his head up, constantly watching the court, he knew where his mates were because he had the height to see over his defender, he was hard to double again, because he could see it coming as well as the open guy the second defender left. His ball fakes moved defenses, he didn't waste time doing things that had no purpose, you didn't see him pound the floor boards for no reason like we have watched for the last 3yrs.

No way this deserves to even be a debate if what you are selling is that Kendal would not have changed the way we played last season in a major way. It is like the difference between the back up QB and Drake Maye, it just is such a clear cut difference.

As much as I love KM, I want to dial it back a little.

KM had Zeller and Henson to pass to. Especially Zeller on the break. To me Zeller and Justin Jackson were maybe the best I've seen at streaking to the rim, catching a long hard pass and putting it in - all at a million miles an hour.

We didn't have a Zeller last year. Or Henson - alway a good lob target, somethng Armando isn't all that good at.

KM also had Harrison and Reggie on the wings. Good shooting, low error guys who really didn't need KM to set them up. A good thing, because he rarely did.

We didn't have any Reggies or Harrisons last year, either.

Now it's certainly possible that KM could have made Pete, RJ or Caleb better. If would have been fun to see if he could have. Maybe Caleb could have been that streaker. I don't think Pete had the foot speed. Getting the ball to RJ or Caleb at the right time sounds like it would have been a good thing. But would KM have been looking to do that?

If I had to bet, I'd bet Pete might have been the greatest beneficiary of KM's skills.

BTW, I was almost alone among fans who thought KM should go pro when he did. That team could have been built to showcase his talents. There was no way he was going to look that good the following year.

 

[ChapelHeeled]

IDK about title contenders but HD can really recruit. I do think this team will be more cohesive though. Pleased!

Doing well...