Has UNC won the rivalry with duke, is it over?

[ChiShankCity]

Ultimately depends on how Scheyer and Hubert do in the long-term. But no matter what, there isn't a counter to UNC closing K's home career with an L for K and an L in the Final Four in his final game. So eternal bragging rights there.

If Scheyer and Hubert have teams annually in the top 5, then the intensity continues. However, no matter what happens, the last 2 wins over Duke will live for eternity.

 

[strummingram]

No, the Dook rivalry preceded that. You just gotta come from a longer Carolina history to truly understand.

No, you really don't understand Tar Heel history. I remember as a little boy when State was the big rival and Dook sucked for the most part and yet my Dad's reaction to Dook was so different. I couldn't understand my Dad's perspective on Dook. He literally told my older brother it was spelled D O O K and my brother almost got into a fight because he was sure his Daddy wouldn't lie to him.

But over time I understood. It's almost part of being a true Tar Heel.

The Dook thing just goes deeper. Maybe not in football. I guess I can give you that but it's more than a sports rivalry.

Maybe trying to explain it just won't work. If you know, you know.

If the dookies suck, and we remain dominant (or vice versa), them the rivalry is diminished. It becomes a "remember when" situation. It's not that difficult to understand. In the 70s, there was no rivalry because they sucked... until maybe 78?

 

[Old_School59]

to be honest, I'm sure most of us understand that this was actually a UNC/sheshevski rivalry. He happened to be the dook coach so it's proper to say it was a dook/UNC rivalry; but I know I'm not the only one who has equated dook with K almost as long as he was there. But since dook allowed him to hang his hat there, the continued rivalry is really carryover from his tenure as much or more than it is school-to-school. And that carryover takes with it the hate that a decent rivalry generates. I hope that Scheyer can bring about some continued hate because otherwise there's going to be a big hole in my psyche. I loved hating sheshevski.

Agree, even though Bill Foster had dook on the rise before he left it was k who made the rivalry white hot.

 

[Old_School59]

No, you really don't understand Tar Heel history. I remember as a little boy when State was the big rival and Dook sucked for the most part and yet my Dad's reaction to Dook was so different. I couldn't understand my Dad's perspective on Dook. He literally told my older brother it was spelled D O O K and my brother almost got into a fight because he was sure his Daddy wouldn't lie to him.

But over time I understood. It's almost part of being a true Tar Heel.

The Dook thing just goes deeper. Maybe not in football. I guess I can give you that but it's more than a sports rivalry.

Maybe trying to explain it just won't work. If you know, you know.

My mom always told me about Larry and Heyman getting into it early 60’s. State temporarily took the rivals mantle from dook when they lost coach Bubas until Sloan left because he just couldn’t get by Deans teams, even though he won a natty with one team, and if not for being ineligible may have won back to back titles. I think Phil Ford drove Sloan to Florida 😉
k took the rivalry to another level against Dean. Yep it goes deeper than just k

 

[tcb22]

No, you really don't understand Tar Heel history. I remember as a little boy when State was the big rival and Dook sucked for the most part and yet my Dad's reaction to Dook was so different. I couldn't understand my Dad's perspective on Dook. He literally told my older brother it was spelled D O O K and my brother almost got into a fight because he was sure his Daddy wouldn't lie to him.

But over time I understood. It's almost part of being a true Tar Heel.

The Dook thing just goes deeper. Maybe not in football. I guess I can give you that but it's more than a sports rivalry.

Maybe trying to explain it just won't work. If you know, you know.

Actually Duke was our biggest rivalry in football until the 70's> Our fight song has "go to hell, duke."

 

[superstar57]

You just can't duplicate that much NBA talent 8 miles apart. So rivalry over ummm. No!

Can you imagine Next year when Duke brings in the top recruiting class, and we bring back basically our entire team. Rivalry over? Nah

 

[bluetoe]

Agree, even though Bill Foster had dook on the rise before he left it was k who made the rivalry white hot.

you may have missed my post, # 35, Before Foster there was Vic Bubas, and he had a good record and put together some really strong teams. The intense dook/UNC rivalry of legend is due to K. But there was a rivalry before him.

 

[gobblercalls]

There is the rivalry with dook that has been there at least since I've been a UNC fan in the mid 60's, and then there's the hatred of all things sheshitski. I would despise him regardless of where he was employed. I don't respect him for what he's accomplished, don't think he's owed any accolades or celebrations for his career, and do not wish him well in his retirement. Unless face continues the cheating and teaching little tricks that ruin college basketball the rivalry will mellow out a little for me. It will always be there because of the arrogant, uninformed, bandwagon fans that make up the dook fanbase, but to a lesser degree of intensity.

 

[Grayhead]

Face is unproven at this point. Just as HD was. HD has a better advantage due to his age and history. K must have seen something in him to warrant such a risky move in that hire. That being said, if HD beats the doors off dook for the foreseeable future, then the rivalry will be watered down. If Face can compete, and win a few against us, then it may stay alive. Dook is obviously set back at the moment, and will need to work hard to overcome all the disappointment and changes that took place last year. Face has to continue winning as K did, or the O&D train will cease. I feel it's going to be make or break for them over the next couple of years. A big gamble in not hiring a winning coach. I think it's an attempt at creating a counterfeit environment with their "brotherhood" similar the the Family.

 

[DSouthr]

Usually, and I say usually but off top of my head I can not recall an example counter to my point, usually the coach that takes over when a legendary coach steps away is a temporary fill in. Usually a guy taking over any program that has never been head coach before struggles, what Hubert did was not the normal, Tommy LLoyd had a great 1st season to but these are not typical. What is more typical is that first year coaches struggle, it takes time to build a team and have them play the way YOU want them to. Carbon copies do not exist, Hubert does not do things the way Roy did, Roy didn't do things like Dean did, scheyer will not do things like K did.

What duke needs to do if they ever want to get back to the natty game is to go back and play hard nosed defense but that is hard to do when you are so loaded with freshmen, harder still when those freshmen are considered 1&D level stars, they score but don't defend. That has been duke for a few years now, really talented star scorers but the defense is not nearly what it used to be from duke. This past season they had a shot blocking guy in Williams that helped erase a lot of their mistakes but he is gone now. What duke needs to do they can't because they do not have enough experience or enough blue collar guys that work to defend.

Usually that new coach that takes over for a legend lasts 3years before the fanbase starts putting for sale signs up in his yard in the wee hours of the morning. It is a crazy pressure cooker and Hubert just went thru it. But Hubert is a interesting personality, he seems to take everything 1 step at a time, not get as emotionally trapped by expectations. Hubert is really laid back and grounded in both faith as well as the person he is. Scheyer is a bit of a hot head that has not head coached a JV program for the last 8years as was the case with Hubert.

And you know what makes things even harder for scheyer, Hubert in his first season led UNC to the national title game nd Hubert led us to 2, count them 2 back breaking defeats of duke. Man that bar is set high for scheyer. This feels to me like what we got when Matt was named our head coach, I see a lot of the same personality in both Matt and scheyer.

I think the odds are way against scheyer making it to year 4 and there just is not Roy Williams out there for duke, there darn sure ain't a Hubert Davis!

 

[randman1]

Actually Duke was our biggest rivalry in football until the 70's> Our fight song has "go to hell, duke."

I know. Just throwing him a bone.

 

[CrazyHeel]

Yeah. When I was a little kid in the seventies, growing up in eastern North carolina, Duke rarely ever came into the conversation anywhere. It was State Carolina. The Duke rivalry came after shevski became popular, and successful.

And State fell off...dook filled the void

 

[strummingram]

And State fell off...dook filled the void

Yes, after K made the dookies the formidable adversary for the last 35 years, the rivalry, THEN, became... "the greatest rivalry in college sports." It was NOT "the greatest rivalry in college sports" before Coach K made them a perennial force, like Dean Smith had long since made the Tar Heels. UNC has been a blue-blood since the 1950s. Or, I should say, they became a blue-blood, beginning in the 1950s. McGuire, Smith, Williams, and now Davis. 60 years of ascendancy to college basketball royalty. So, UNC has been the "rival", in some sense, to a lot of ACC teams. You always had to "go through Carolina" to get anywhere.

The dookies fell in-and-out of prominence during the first 2-3 decades of ACC basketball. Bubas and Foster eventually became successful. However, UNC, NCSU and Maryland, were also forces in the ACC. Even USC was strong in the 60s, before they left the conference. In the 1970's, NCSU was a powerhouse, when Norm Sloan was the coach. Carolina/State was the Tobacco ROad rivalry when I was a youngster. The dookies were garbage. I hated seeing anyone with red & white and a wolf logo! I still do!

If the programs falter, the rivalry falters.

 

[randman1]

Yes, after K made the dookies the formidable adversary for the last 35 years, the rivalry, THEN, became... "the greatest rivalry in college sports." It was NOT "the greatest rivalry in college sports" before Coach K made them a perennial force, like Dean Smith had long since made the Tar Heels. UNC has been a blue-blood since the 1950s. Or, I should say, they became a blue-blood, beginning in the 1950s. McGuire, Smith, Williams, and now Davis. 60 years of ascendancy to college basketball royalty. So, UNC has been the "rival", in some sense, to a lot of ACC teams. You always had to "go through Carolina" to get anywhere.

The dookies fell in-and-out of prominence during the first 2-3 decades of ACC basketball. Bubas and Foster eventually became successful. However, UNC, NCSU and Maryland, were also forces in the ACC. Even USC was strong in the 60s, before they left the conference. In the 1970's, NCSU was a powerhouse, when Norm Sloan was the coach. Carolina/State was the Tobacco ROad rivalry when I was a youngster. The dookies were garbage. I hated seeing anyone with red & white and a wolf logo! I still do!

If the programs falter, the rivalry falters.

Remember the Big Four tournament? The rivalry between those schools was always here, and as far as dook, we've always been their most hated.

I've heard Dook fans break out into "Go to Hell Carolina" when they were playing another team.

Goes beyond sports. Maybe a cultural thing, southern versus Yankee even though there are true, North Carolinian dook fans and alumni? Or for most UNC students, that was their first choice and for Dook students often down the list?

Dook's student body seeming nerdy and arrogant; UNC, more the cool-kids but still arrogant (just being honest). 8 miles apart. Which is the better scene Franklin Street or Durham?

I don't recall State fans coming over to deface the Old Well and things like the dookies have done. That happened even when Dook wasn't "rivalling" us for success.

The UNC/Dook thing just goes much deeper and predates K by a long shot.

State is a rival as well with it's own particulars Just a little different with 2 in-state schools.

 

[DrJaaay]

As long as I interact with dook fans on a regular basis, the rivalry will not be over. However, I think dook needs to get back to having players stay for 3-4 years. Not just 1 or 2 players, but a whole team ... a lot like what we have coming back next year.
I honestly cannot name the players from dook's last four teams ... but I dang sure remember names like Hurley, Battier, Singler, etc. and I hated them. I also hated Banchero and John because they ran their mouths, but I didn't really hate the other guys. I'd like to get back to that level of hate that I so enjoy.

 

[strummingram]

Remember the Big Four tournament? The rivalry between those schools was always here, and as far as dook, we've always been their most hated.

I've heard Dook fans break out into "Go to Hell Carolina" when they were playing another team.

Goes beyond sports. Maybe a cultural thing, southern versus Yankee even though there are true, North Carolinian dook fans and alumni? Or for most UNC students, that was their first choice and for Dook students often down the list?

Dook's student body seeming nerdy and arrogant; UNC, more the cool-kids but still arrogant (just being honest). 8 miles apart. Which is the better scene Franklin Street or Durham?

I don't recall State fans coming over to deface the Old Well and things like the dookies have done. That happened even when Dook wasn't "rivalling" us for success.

The UNC/Dook thing just goes much deeper and predates K by a long shot.

State is a rival as well with it's own particulars Just a little different with 2 in-state schools.

I know... you just can't get past it. You have YOUR perspective and I have MY perspective. I've been as clear and articulate as I can be. The BASKETBALL (the sport/game of basketball) rivalry between UNC and Duke has become much, much more intense from 1982-the present, than it was from 19-whatever until 1982. I'm sorry of that doesn't fit your perception, or your... dare I say... opinion. But, that is how I see it. Are you getting paid to sniff my ass over here, too?

 

[randman1]

Yes, after K made the dookies the formidable adversary for the last 35 years, the rivalry, THEN, became... "the greatest rivalry in college sports." It was NOT "the greatest rivalry in college sports" before Coach K made them a perennial force, like Dean Smith had long since made the Tar Heels. UNC has been a blue-blood since the 1950s. Or, I should say, they became a blue-blood, beginning in the 1950s. McGuire, Smith, Williams, and now Davis. 60 years of ascendancy to college basketball royalty. So, UNC has been the "rival", in some sense, to a lot of ACC teams. You always had to "go through Carolina" to get anywhere.

The dookies fell in-and-out of prominence during the first 2-3 decades of ACC basketball. Bubas and Foster eventually became successful. However, UNC, NCSU and Maryland, were also forces in the ACC. Even USC was strong in the 60s, before they left the conference. In the 1970's, NCSU was a powerhouse, when Norm Sloan was the coach. Carolina/State was the Tobacco ROad rivalry when I was a youngster. The dookies were garbage. I hated seeing anyone with red & white and a wolf logo! I still do!

If the programs falter, the rivalry falters.

There was just a polar opposite approach especially in the Dean Smith years.

Dean would halt the game to tell people not to heckle the other players or try to make them miss their free throws. On the other hand, maybe it was during O'Koren years, I remember an instance where the Dook fans threw stuff at Dean Smith as the team left the court in Cameron.

So there's only one dook. If they suck, beating them is always of prime importance, the more often the better.

Now I hear ya on the fact if dook sucks, the games won't get such national attention. Just trying to bring up a little history here to further illuminate how deep and far back the rivalry goes.

 

[strummingram]

There was just a polar opposite approach especially in the Dean Smith years.

Dean would halt the game to tell people not to heckle the other players or try to make them miss their free throws. On the other hand, maybe it was during O'Koren years, I remember an instance where the Dook fans threw stuff at Dean Smith as the team left the court in Cameron.

So there's only one dook. If they suck, beating them is always of prime importance, the more often the better.

Now I hear ya on the fact if dook sucks, the games won't get such national attention. Just trying to bring up a little history here to further illuminate how deep and far back the rivalry goes.

The next time you illuminate anything will be the first time.

 

[randman1]

The next time you illuminate anything will be the first time.

Got your feelings hurt, did ya?

 

[strummingram]

Got your feelings hurt, did ya?

Once, when I saw The Green Mile. I really like Mr. Jingles.

 

[DaSheed]

The rivalry really changed during the “Double Standard” game on Jan. 21, 1984. UNC was ranked #1 and traveled to Cameron. The Blue Devils were unranked but rising under the young Rat.

For a while, the night seemed like it would be K’s finest moment at dook. The Blue Devils led 67-63 in the final minutes and it appeared it would be a program-defining victory. But then, as games sometimes did in K’s early years in Durham, everything unraveled. The Tar Heels came back and won thanks in no small part to Michael Jordan, playing his final college season, and Kenny Smith, a freshman guard.

The most memorable moment, though, might have been Dean Smith banging on the scorer’s table with about 4 1/2 minutes to play. He was, apparently, trying to stop the clock to make a substitution. While he banged on the table, Smith inadvertently added 20 points to UNC’s score. The scorers fixed that, but despite the antics, he wasn’t called for a technical and the crazies lost their minds.

After his team’s 78-73 loss – dook’s fifth in a streak of six consecutive losses against the Tar Heels – the Rat was irate. He vented about what he described as the “double standard” that existed in the ACC – one for Smith and his team, and one for everybody else.

 

[strummingram]

The rivalry really changed during the “Double Standard” game on Jan. 21, 1984. UNC was ranked #1 and traveled to Cameron. The Blue Devils were unranked but rising under the young Rat.

For a while, the night seemed like it would be K’s finest moment at dook. The Blue Devils led 67-63 in the final minutes and it appeared it would be a program-defining victory. But then, as games sometimes did in K’s early years in Durham, everything unraveled. The Tar Heels came back and won thanks in no small part to Michael Jordan, playing his final college season, and Kenny Smith, a freshman guard.

The most memorable moment, though, might have been Dean Smith banging on the scorer’s table with about 4 1/2 minutes to play. He was, apparently, trying to stop the clock to make a substitution. While he banged on the table, Smith inadvertently added 20 points to UNC’s score. The scorers fixed that, but despite the antics, he wasn’t called for a technical and the crazies lost their minds.

After his team’s 78-73 loss – dook’s fifth in a streak of six consecutive losses against the Tar Heels – the Rat was irate. He vented about what he described as the “double standard” that existed in the ACC – one for Smith and his team, and one for everybody else.

College Basketball's "golden era" was from the late 70's to late 90's, in my opinion. So, whatever and whoever were the kings during that time, then their rivalries will be considered stronger during that time.

 

[sctarheel30]

Rivalry never over. There’s enough hatred for dook to last a lifetime and for moou.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I will hate puke and the memory of ratty with my last breath! If they suck it will be fun to stomp them and if they are good, I'll enjoy knocking that smug look off their painted faces! I really hope Face falls flat and then someone else brings them back + Moo finds some way back to near relevancy!