into this country should be completely halted for a minimum of 10 years. Discuss.
Yeah, that's right OOTB. I'm getting political now. Prepare accordingly.
Yeah, that's right OOTB. I'm getting political now. Prepare accordingly.
Immigration
- Thread starter TarHeelNation11
- Start date
I don't think it should be completely stopped, but the amount let in should be lowered from current levels.
I could be on board with this for sure. It needs to be reigned in at a minimum. By 2050, we're going to have massive education and infrastructure problems because of immigration, if things don't change.
The country was founded on immigration. But when the country was founded, I'm not sure that immigrants were a danger to try to kill current citizens, nor am I sure that the country was having enough trouble taking care of its current citizens. I'm fairly certain when the country was founded that the then current citizens weren't expected to subsidize the lives of new immigrants that weren't willing/able to get jobs to support themselves.
In a perfect world, the USA would be able to take care of its current citizens and allow for new immigrants to come in and support themselves. However if a choice needs to be made between keeping the standard of living for current citizens and opening the country to new immigrants, I'm on the side of keeping the standard of living for current citizens. If that makes me tribalistic, so be it.
In a perfect world, the USA would be able to take care of its current citizens and allow for new immigrants to come in and support themselves. However if a choice needs to be made between keeping the standard of living for current citizens and opening the country to new immigrants, I'm on the side of keeping the standard of living for current citizens. If that makes me tribalistic, so be it.
^ at some point, there's a diminishing law of returns. This country was made by immigrants, yes, but that was also 250, 150, and 100 years ago. Back then, modern medicine hadn't kicked in, populations were small, land was aplenty, and there was pretty of room for more to come in.
Fast forward to today and the country is rapidly getting over-crowded and as you pointed out @Hark_The_Sound_2010 we cannot continue on with the legal citizens subsidizing the lives of illegal aliens.
Fast forward to today and the country is rapidly getting over-crowded and as you pointed out @Hark_The_Sound_2010 we cannot continue on with the legal citizens subsidizing the lives of illegal aliens.
Should we simultaneously dismantle that overtly offensive statue in Upper New York Bay? You know the one . . . the Statue of Liberty.
Yes. It was built by a French dude and the French used to have slaves back in the day. Burn that racist POS statue.
Her outfit is dated too.
I'd be in favor of a little give and take from both sides. We can take down every remotely offensive statue in the country, and in exchange we pause immigration until the negative impacts of it on every tax paying citizen can be prevented. One side gets a fix to the emotional problems of a small percentage of the population, the other side gets a fix to the physical/logical problems of the entire population.
Not only will immigration not be curtailed, but you should also prepare yourself for amnesty for illegals for one simple reason.
The birth rate in this country has been too low for too long to sustain social security and Medicare. The quickest fix for the funding gap is to make a bunch of job holding adults instantly part of the tax base.
The birth rate in this country has been too low for too long to sustain social security and Medicare. The quickest fix for the funding gap is to make a bunch of job holding adults instantly part of the tax base.
If there are problems stemming from legal immigration, then I say halt if 100% for one yr and go from there. What's the worst thing that could happen over a single yr?
It sucks for people seeking asylum (imagine someone trying to escape north korea for example), but as a country we could say that it isn't permanent.
I personally think legal immigrants should have a higher tax burden.
It sucks for people seeking asylum (imagine someone trying to escape north korea for example), but as a country we could say that it isn't permanent.
I personally think legal immigrants should have a higher tax burden.
What if we are recruiting a dude from another country or something? That is really the important question to consider.
Disagree. Legal immigration provides a number of pragmatic benefits and there are also valid philosophical reasons for allowing or even encouraging immigration.
What I'd like to see is stronger enforcement of existing immigration laws against those who enter the country illegally. The law is no good if it isn't enforced. It's not that I have no compassion, but the "tearing families apart" argument doesn't work for me. Families are only torn apart because someone knowingly and willfully broke the law. There should be consequences for that.
As I stated above, I'd be cool with this, but I do think quotas need to be installed. This country is growing at a rapid rate, population-wise, and that can't be sustained forever.
You're right though, it starts with properly enforcing immigration laws as it pertains to illegal aliens.
No no, we want to hear you address your erroneous statue of liberty comment, because you're apparently one of those morons who believes lady liberty is directly related to immigration. please explain ....
First of all, it's Statue of Liberty, upper case, not "statue of liberty."
Second, I'll let the National Park Service explain it to you:
The Immigrant's Statue
Between 1886 and 1924, almost 14 million immigrants entered the United States through New York. The Statue of Liberty was a reassuring sign that they had arrived in the land of their dreams. To these anxious newcomers, the Statue's uplifted torch did not suggest "enlightenment," as her creators intended, but rather, "welcome." Over time, Liberty emerged as the "Mother of Exiles," a symbol of hope to generations of immigrants.
The opening of the immigrant processing station at Ellis Island in 1892 in the shadow of the Statue of Liberty facilitated an immigrant association, as did the later popularity of Emma Lazarus's poem, "The New Colossus." In 1883, Lazarus donated her poem, "The New Colossus," to an auction raising funds for the construction of the Statue's pedestal. This poem vividly depicted the Statue of Liberty as offering refuge to new immigrants from the miseries of Europe.
War tensions in the twentieth century reinforced this connection and further advanced the image of the Statue in the harbor as an emblem of the United States as a refuge for the poor and persecuted of Europe, and as a place of unlimited opportunity. Sometimes this image glossed over the very real drawbacks and difficulties of settling in the United States, but it was a romantic view that was dominant for decades and continues to persist.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt's 1936 speech in honor of the Statue's 50th Anniversary helped solidify the transformation of the Statue into an icon of immigration. In the speech he presented immigration as a central part of the nation's past and emphasized the newcomers' capacity for Americanization.
https://www.nps.gov/stli/learn/historyculture/the-immigrants-statue.htm
You're welcome.
I appreciate your version, here is an alternative describing the facts that a poem added years later caused and still causes misrepresentation of the statue as some sort of torch to light the way for immigration. utter BS.
"When the Statue of Liberty was dedicated on October 28, 1886, the ceremonial speeches had nothing to do with immigrants arriving in America.
And the sculptor who created the enormous statue, Fredric-Auguste Bartholdi, never intended the statue to evoke the idea of immigration. In a sense, he viewed his creation as something nearly opposite: as a symbol of liberty spreading outward from America.
So how and why did the statue become an iconic symbol of immigration?
The Statue of Liberty really became a symbol of immigration because of a poem written in honor of the statue, "The New Colossus," a sonnet by Emma Lazarus.
The sonnet was generally forgotten not long after it was written. Yet over time the sentiments expressed in words by Emma Lazarus and the massive figure crafted of copper by Bartholdi would become inseparable in the public mind."
https://www.thoughtco.com/statue-of-liberty-symbolize-immigration-1774050
You're welcome too!
I'm not sure what you're arguing about. The article you linked acknowledges the fact that the Statue of Liberty is "a symbol of immigration."
This isn't 1886, and although it was a gift from France which initially represented entirely different principles, today and for many decades leading up to today the Statue of Liberty has been an icon for immigration to America. To deny this is purely asinine.
This isn't 1886, and although it was a gift from France which initially represented entirely different principles, today and for many decades leading up to today the Statue of Liberty has been an icon for immigration to America. To deny this is purely asinine.
Fortunately, our immigration policy is not dictated by a 135 year old poem.
And the spirit of Ellis Island evokes images of Italians, Poles, Czechs, Slavs, Nigerians, Irishmen, and many others who wanted to come here to be Americans. To disappear into the melting pot, always retaining their heritage but becoming uniquely American, and becoming a part of this great experiment.
The spirit of today's immigrant evokes images of Mexicans who still want to be Mexicans, Somalis who still want to be Somalis, Bangladeshis that still want to be Bangladeshis, Serbs who still want to be Serbs, and Afghanis who still want to be Afghanis. But they all want to do it in America, where they can enjoy the freedom, prosperity, and abundance that Western civilization and capitalism have created, all while many of them exhibit utter contempt for our way of life and our values. They also want to circumvent our laws to do so while treating coming to America as a right rather than a privilege. Some even seek to bring along with them the repressive cultures that caused them to deem their former home countries to be no longer inhabitable.
Every sovereign nation has the right, and moreover a duty to it's citizens to control who enters it.
And the spirit of Ellis Island evokes images of Italians, Poles, Czechs, Slavs, Nigerians, Irishmen, and many others who wanted to come here to be Americans. To disappear into the melting pot, always retaining their heritage but becoming uniquely American, and becoming a part of this great experiment.
The spirit of today's immigrant evokes images of Mexicans who still want to be Mexicans, Somalis who still want to be Somalis, Bangladeshis that still want to be Bangladeshis, Serbs who still want to be Serbs, and Afghanis who still want to be Afghanis. But they all want to do it in America, where they can enjoy the freedom, prosperity, and abundance that Western civilization and capitalism have created, all while many of them exhibit utter contempt for our way of life and our values. They also want to circumvent our laws to do so while treating coming to America as a right rather than a privilege. Some even seek to bring along with them the repressive cultures that caused them to deem their former home countries to be no longer inhabitable.
Every sovereign nation has the right, and moreover a duty to it's citizens to control who enters it.
As many here know, I'm completely in @TarHeelNation11's camp as far as immigration is concerned. I'm for closing the borders for 10 years (or more). No legal or illegal immigration. We cannot support our citizens as it is. Why on earth would we compound the problem by letting more people in? That makes zero sense. I guess the left wants to let more in and then complain more about the number of poor people in the country.
And why would anyone want to come here anyway? Just a bunch of racist, white dudes controlling everything anyway. I'd totally think twice about coming here if I were them.
And why would anyone want to come here anyway? Just a bunch of racist, white dudes controlling everything anyway. I'd totally think twice about coming here if I were them.
While I understand why some equate the statue of liberty with immigration, to me Ellis Island is what I think of. The problem is most Americans couldn't tell you what Ellis Island is.
No one seems to understand that our economy is very dependent on replacing each generation with more people. Many Americans, especially whites, aren't reproducing at a great enough clip. In addition to the issues you mention, we also are gonna need people to help with the huge influx of the elderly population in the next 40-50 years. China is really screwed by this and scrambling to get Chinese families to make more babies.
Lastly, it seems cliche, but we really need more immigrants for the menial jobs that Americans just won't do. Unless you want to start paying $10 for a tomato or $1000 monthly to cut your lawn, we're gonna need more migrant workers.
Show me documentation that we aren't "reproducing at a great enough clip."
Yeah, I don't fully buy this. If anything, the presence of so many illegals has provided the rest of Americans a crutch not to work hard or seek out 'menial' jobs. Plenty of job opportunities are out there, people just need to be willing to work. I've worked extensively in an industry that relies on temporary labor and relies on what people would classify as "the lowest rungs of American society" in terms of lack of college degree and lack of education. So I feel I can speak on this issue with some background and knowledge.
We can't hire an American to dependably work for $15-$20 hour at manual labor (concrete work).
And Ticket is completely correct. Birthrate is about 60% of what we need just to tread water.
Who's we? $15/hr is $4/hr more than what folks get paid at my family's company and we have a few white employees.
Completely agree. Plenty of Americans want to work. And most will - especially if we cut out entitlements.
Sure. Come on- we have a pour at 2am Friday morning, weather permitting. Should be done by 3pm or so. We will get you a Bojangles biscuit for breakfast and burritos for lunch.
Not true, at least at the labor intensive jobs.
Unless we cut out entitlements- then people have to work.
http://time.com/4585232/white-deaths-exceed-births-united-states/
You work in the temp industry? You're making my point for me with your remarks. There are plenty of jobs out there that native born Americans refuse to do. Go speak to any honest farmer, general contractor, restaurant owner, or businessman in a trade and they will tell you that not only do Hispanic immigrants work better/harder, but that their native American (white, black, etc) refuse or can't do the work.
No I don't work in the temp industry. I work for a company that uses a lot of temps. If you're trying to get me to argue that Hispanics generally work harder, I'm not going to debate that. They do. What I'm saying is it's become accepted for non-illegal Hispanics to be like "eh, I don't want to do that job. An illegal will do it." If illegal immigration is curtailed, this sentiment will go away, IMO.
And if it doesn't, business owners will have to respond with wage increases.
