Raymond Felton and Theo Pinson point to PG...

[gary-7]

To Felton's point... EC has to know his personnel. He should know the strengths and weaknesses of his team on the court. As a PG that's part of his job.

Sorry, but I honestly can't believe we're even talking about hamstringing a passing savant.

For the record, Ray averaged 3.6 TOs for his career. and was over 3/game all three seasons he was here. Why?... Because he was aggressive as a play-maker and creator and that was part of his mojo --- as it is wth Eliot. But, let's also get real here --- the simple FACT is that Eliot has to work way harder and take more chances to create offense for this supporting cast than Ray ever had to with his.

Quite frankly, to Ray and Theo, lemme say this in no uncerain terms: As much as I love you guys, scapegoating Eliot is utter nonsense -- and even more frankly, the culprits you two alums need to be pointing at are your alum brethren on the damn bench.

Come on, guys. I mean, I'm pulling for this staff as hard as you are, but perhaps if you two and more alums would call out the staff's mistakes in straying from the Carolina system, they would listen (for their own good).

 

[ACokeForRoy]

Sorry, but I honestly can't believe we're even talking about hamstringing a passing savant.

For the record, Ray averaged 3.6 TOs for his career. and was over 3/game all three seasons he was here. Why?... Because he was aggressive as a play-maker and creator and that was part of his mojo --- as it is wth Eliot. But, let's also get real here --- the simple FACT is that Eliot has to work way harder and take more chances to create offense for this supporting cast than Ray ever had to with his.

Quite frankly, to Ray and Theo, lemme say this in no uncerain terms: As much as I love you guys, scapegoating Eliot is utter nonsense -- and even more frankly, the culprits you two alums need to be pointing at are your alum brethren on the damn bench.

Come on, guys. I mean, I'm pulling for this staff as hard as you are, but perhaps if you two and more alums would call out the staff's mistakes in straying from the Carolina system, they would listen (for their own good).

" Eliot has to work way harder and take more chances to create offense".... Its the taking chances that's the issue. It appears to be the same chances over and over and its failing. Trying to bully over much taller and stronger players time and time again is a recipe for failure. At what point do you realize, this doesn't work for me.. let me adjust.. how about a nice floater instead. Okay this pick and roll to player X doesn't yield much success and creates turnovers.... let me adjust where I go with the ball. I don't think they were scapegoating EC nor was I but those things stand out to me. I see EC make the same mistakes over and over. Its decision making.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Come on, guys. I mean, I'm pulling for this staff as hard as you are, but perhaps if you two and more alums would call out the staff's mistakes in straying from the Carolina system, they would listen (for their own good).

Or get us some primo players up front.

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

" Eliot has to work way harder and take more chances to create offense".... Its the taking chances that's the issue. It appears to be the same chances over and over and its failing. Trying to bully over much taller and stronger players time and time again is a recipe for failure. At what point do you realize, this doesn't work for me.. let me adjust.. how about a nice floater instead. Okay this pick and roll to player X doesn't yield much success and creates turnovers.... let me adjust where I go with the ball. I don't think they were scapegoating EC nor was I but those things stand out to me. I see EC make the same mistakes over and over. Its decision making.

Exactly none of what he posted has anything to do with making fundamental plays as a PG.

EC just plays has no concept of controlling the game.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Cadeau this year does not have a legit big man to feed the ball. He also does not have consistent 3pt shooting support to help his driving game.

This off season Davis or whoever is our coach will need 2 more big men outside Wilson coming in and 2 more 3pt shooters or else it could be a long season.

I seriously doubt anyone wants Cadeau to leave us and we rely on a green FR at PG.

I don't disagree but really do we know what Jwash could do if they would ever just throw him the ball on the block with his back to the basket and see what he might do?

Im not sure there have been more than 5 times this year that we have moved the ball around the key and threw an entry pass to someone posted up.

It may not work but what's the worse that could happen, him turning the it over we do that at a big enough clip so what's a couple more?

 

[rexerdog]

I don't disagree but really do we know what Jwash could do if they would ever just throw him the ball on the block with his back to the basket and see what he might do?

Im not sure there have been more than 5 times this year that we have moved the ball around the key and threw an entry pass to someone posted up.

It may not work but what's the worse that could happen, him turning the it over we do that at a big enough clip so what's a couple more?

he was pretty good from the post where he would face up, hit the pull up from 10-15 feet. Hadn’t seen that all year!

 

[NorCalTarheel]

Im not sure there have been more than 5 times this year that we have moved the ball around the key and threw an entry pass to someone posted up.

It may not work but what's the worse that could happen, him turning the it over we do that at a big enough clip so what's a couple more?

You may have missed the second Pitt game, but that is exactly how we started the game and how we built a lead. Post entry passes to Lubin over and over again. Why we abandoned that, other than because it worked, I have no idea. Lubin was not bigger nor better than any of the Pitt post players, yet it worked. Not sure I've seen a post entry pass before or since.

 

[notashelbyfan]

You may have missed the second Pitt game, but that is exactly how we started the game and how we built a lead. Post entry passes to Lubin over and over again. Why we abandoned that, other than because it worked, I have no idea. Lubin was not bigger nor better than any of the Pitt post players, yet it worked. Not sure I've seen a post entry pass before or since.

You are correct i didnt get to watch it.

 

[KeeLo]

I'd love to see more interior to exterior movement. Makes the defense have to account for their man in front and the ball behind.

At Wake (I commented on it here too) I saw 2 possessions where the Heels put the ball in the C/PF hands at the FT line while everyone else moved. It worked both times, yielding excellent in-flow plays and scores. I didn't see it anymore.

 

[dtodd4475]

You may have missed the second Pitt game, but that is exactly how we started the game and how we built a lead. Post entry passes to Lubin over and over again. Why we abandoned that, other than because it worked, I have no idea. Lubin was not bigger nor better than any of the Pitt post players, yet it worked. Not sure I've seen a post entry pass before or since.

To me that was a direct coaching adjustment on Pitt's switch on everything from the first matchup. When Lubin got the rock he had guards on him. Vast majority was on switches. Clemson was not doing, that at all, just show. No mismatch in the paint to dump into.

 

[notashelbyfan]

To me that was a direct coaching adjustment on Pitt's switch on everything from the first matchup. When Lubin got the rock he had guards on him. Vast majority was on switches. Clemson was not doing, that at all, just show. No mismatch in the paint to dump into.

I just want to see Jwash get the ball on the block with his back to the basket, and see what happens.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I just want to see Jwash get the ball on the block with his back to the basket, and see what happens.

Does JWash have a jump hook? If he has that, who's going to stop him?

 

[NorCalTarheel]

I just want to see Jwash get the ball on the block with his back to the basket, and see what happens.

I don't believe JWash has the strength to hold his position to get the ball on the block. Seems like he is easily moved off the block and had to start his possessions 5, 6, 10 feet from where you typically want a low-post player starting his moves.

I also don't think that jalen's strength is playing with his back to the basket. Jalen is supposed to be an incredible shooter, even out to three-point land. I'd like to see more of him facing up at the free-throw line, especially when we are facing zone and burying the mid-range jumpers. I think that is his strength.

 

[notashelbyfan]

I don't believe JWash has the strength to hold his position to get the ball on the block. Seems like he is easily moved off the block and had to start his possessions 5, 6, 10 feet from where you typically want a low-post player starting his moves.

I also don't think that jalen's strength is playing with his back to the basket. Jalen is supposed to be an incredible shooter, even out to three-point land. I'd like to see more of him facing up at the free-throw line, especially when we are facing zone and burying the mid-range jumpers. I think that is his strength.

I agree but I would bet everything i got it's never been tried, not in practice and I'm pretty sure it hasn't in a game.

Maybe he is some kind of ninja with the ball on the block, maybe if he hustles down the floor and gets a pass he can make a move before the defense is ready. Not comparing the two players at all but Antawn Jamison was the goat at getting down the floor and getting the ball on the block before the defense was set.

Its kind of like working on you wife's car that wont crank and you have tried everything else and your son says "does it have gas in it".

 

[notashelbyfan]

Does JWash have a jump hook? If he has that, who's going to stop him?

Who knows?

 

[dtodd4475]

I agree but I would bet everything i got it's never been tried, not in practice and I'm pretty sure it hasn't in a game.

Maybe he is some kind of ninja with the ball on the block, maybe if he hustles down the floor and gets a pass he can make a move before the defense is ready. Not comparing the two players at all but Antawn Jamison was the goat at getting down the floor and getting the ball on the block before the defense was set.

Its kind of like working on you wife's car that wont crank and you have tried everything else and your son says "does it have gas in it".

From the people I know from his high school years, I would think if he is planted on the block as back to the basket type, I would wager he enters the portal for sure. He may be anyway, but I think that would make it 100%.

 

[NathanFielder]

I agree but I would bet everything i got it's never been tried, not in practice and I'm pretty sure it hasn't in a game.

Maybe he is some kind of ninja with the ball on the block, maybe if he hustles down the floor and gets a pass he can make a move before the defense is ready. Not comparing the two players at all but Antawn Jamison was the goat at getting down the floor and getting the ball on the block before the defense was set.

Its kind of like working on you wife's car that wont crank and you have tried everything else and your son says "does it have gas in it".

Idk. Early in the season I thought Washington had a couple of iso post ups and he looked really uncomfortable to me. And regardless, I've been more disappointed at Washington's perimeter shooting and him turning down wide open jumpers during the season more than his post play. Hubert said he's the best shooting big man he's ever recruited? And I think he made his first 3 in the 40th minute of the 20th game of the season, lol.

 

[Bubspub88]

Jalen is supposed to be an incredible shooter, even out to three-point land.

That 8% he is shooting from deep would indicate maybe he shouldn't go quite that far.

 

[superstar57]

I knew the season would be iffy with what we had in front court, but Felton hit it on the head. I am really disappointed in EC, I cut him slack because no big man to pass to, but EC was considered a top flight PG, he struggles to score, he is strong so he gets to the cup, but he is not very athletic and often can finish.

I really want EC to stay with us all 4 years, but EC needs all the stars, meaning he needs a couple of stud big men. Honestly we should just play RJ, Trimble, and Jackson and let them get numbers (still will not win that way)

 

[WoadBlue]

Cadeau's weaknesses as PG are not the top reason for the failures. The team lacks any 4/5 player who commands space and toughness, whether as a Wide Body or a Muscle Man or a football-minded guy too tough to mess with. If you do not have such a player starting at 4 or 5, you must have one playing off the bench a good deal. Lacking such a player, foes beat you up around the goal too easily. The team also plays poor D, routinely.

Cadeau's weaknesses are a distant 3rd.

 

[notashelbyfan]

From the people I know from his high school years, I would think if he is planted on the block as back to the basket type, I would wager he enters the portal for sure. He may be anyway, but I think that would make it 100%.

Fair point but if he can't or won't play with his back to the basket and he can't or won't shoot, and he can't stretch a big out of the paint to clear the paint what good is he and why did Hubert think he was the guy and didn't need a 5 in the offseason.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Cadeau's weaknesses as PG are not the top reason for the failures. The team lacks any 4/5 player who commands space and toughness, whether as a Wide Body or a Muscle Man or a football-minded guy too tough to mess with. If you do not have such a player starting at 4 or 5, you must have one playing off the bench a good deal. Lacking such a player, foes beat you up around the goal too easily. The team also plays poor D, routinely.

Cadeau's weaknesses are a distant 3rd.

In any given game, the worst UNC player on the court is probably the biggest guy. Somebody has to be worst. It's not automatically disparaging.

Who is the next worst? Might not be the same guy every game. RJ and Ian were struggling early on. Ian is struggling currently (freshman wall?). Drake had a lackluster run for a bit.

So, yeah, Cadeau is sometimes that guy, but not always.

Seth was struggling a bit just before his injury, but now he's back.

RJ struggled early but he's back.

It won't surprise me if Ian and Elliot snap back.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We should be starting a 6-game winning streak this Saturday. Should. And if that happens, who knows how the Duke rematch will work out? And then the ACC tourney.

If/when it becomes clear that we aren't going to have a magical recovery, I think we should start playing next year's team.

Find out who's returning. Ask them. If they are believably planning to return, play them. Bring our seniors and definite leavers off the bench: RJ, Claude, JWit, maybe even Ian. Start and play the guys we'll be depending on next year.

At this point, who cares if that costs us a couple of wins? Prepare for the future. Find out who's going to fit.

Give these guys all the PT they can handle and see what happens.

Cadeau​

Seth​

Drake​

Cade​

Lubin​

JWash​

Brown​

See if Hubert and his staff can coach. Find out for sure what holes need to be filled from the portal. And at the same time, give our underutilized players a chance to see if they belong on this team, so they can make good decisions about the portal.

 

[alabamaheel]

We should be starting a 6-game winning streak this Saturday. Should. And if that happens, who knows how the Duke rematch will work out? And then the ACC tourney.

If/when it becomes clear that we aren't going to have a magical recovery, I think we should start playing next year's team.

Find out who's returning. Ask them. If they are believably planning to return, play them. Bring our seniors and definite leavers off the bench: RJ, Claude, JWit, maybe even Ian. Start and play the guys we'll be depending on next year.

At this point, who cares if that costs us a couple of wins? Prepare for the future. Find out who's going to fit.

Give these guys all the PT they can handle and see what happens.

Cadeau​

Seth​

Drake​

Cade​

Lubin​

JWash​

Brown​

See if Hubert and his staff can coach. Find out for sure what holes need to be filled from the portal. And at the same time, give our underutilized players a chance to see if they belong on this team, so they can make good decisions about the portal.

Man idk where you come up with some of this stuff but I’ll give you one thing, you definitely think outside the box lol

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Lubin is good.

In the 22 (out of 25) games where he's played double-digit minutes, he has 17 games with an ORtg of 120 or over.

His overall ORtg is 126.6. Tops on the team and top-100 in the nation.

His TS% is a lofty 69.5. Again, best on the team. If he was used enough to make the list, he'd be tied for 4th in the nation.

He's top 30 in the nation on 2-pt% at 70.4%. Also best on the team.

He's top 125 in the nation on Block% (whatever that is) and just 2 blocks behind JWash on the team.

He's top-200 on defensive rebounding% and top-300 on offensive rebounding% (again, whatever those numbers mean).

Just sayin'.

 

[NathanFielder]

Lubin is good.

In the 22 (out of 25) games where he's played double-digit minutes, he has 17 games with an ORtg of 120 or over.

His overall ORtg is 126.6. Tops on the team and top-100 in the nation.

His TS% is a lofty 69.5. Again, best on the team. If he was used enough to make the list, he'd be tied for 4th in the nation.

He's top 30 in the nation on 2-pt% at 70.4%. Also best on the team.

He's top 125 in the nation on Block% (whatever that is) and just 2 blocks behind JWash on the team.

He's top-200 on defensive rebounding% and top-300 on offensive rebounding% (again, whatever those numbers mean).

Just sayin'.

He isn't good. A lot of the lineup data with him on the court indicates a pretty steep dropoff with Lubin on the floor.

For instance, as of Feb 8:
Cadeau-Davis-Jackson-Trimble-Lubin 100.5 ORTG (not particularly good). 111.1 DRTG (not particularly good). -10.6 net (obviously not good)

As of January 25 that lineup was -7.7.

Most of the Withers/Lubin lineups haven't been good, although I'd imagine it was better against Clemson.

He isn't good. He's been a good finisher around the rim this season, but he hasn't been an all around good player this season.

 

[DSouthr]

I don't believe JWash has the strength to hold his position to get the ball on the block. Seems like he is easily moved off the block and had to start his possessions 5, 6, 10 feet from where you typically want a low-post player starting his moves.

I also don't think that jalen's strength is playing with his back to the basket. Jalen is supposed to be an incredible shooter, even out to three-point land. I'd like to see more of him facing up at the free-throw line, especially when we are facing zone and burying the mid-range jumpers. I think that is his strength.

Ding ding sing, we have a winner! LOL Jalen as you share, simply does not have the combination of strength and balance to hold his position, exactly BTW, why I think he is more a 4 than a 5. It is hard for me to understand why Hubert would play Jalen more as a back to the basket guy and JWit as a deep shooting threat? Those roles should be reversed, should have been reversed before game 1 this season.

 

[DSouthr]

He isn't good. A lot of the lineup data with him on the court indicates a pretty steep dropoff with Lubin on the floor.

For instance, as of Feb 8:
Cadeau-Davis-Jackson-Trimble-Lubin 100.5 ORTG (not particularly good). 111.1 DRTG (not particularly good). -10.6 net (obviously not good)

As of January 25 that lineup was -7.7.

Most of the Withers/Lubin lineups haven't been good, although I'd imagine it was better against Clemson.

He isn't good. He's been a good finisher around the rim this season, but he hasn't been an all around good player this season.

Oh, OK, so no matter who else is on the floor when Lubin is in, the reason we struggle is because Lubin is no good? Sure, let's totally bull doze over the fact that that Lubin spends most of his time on court as a 6'7-8" center with Drake as his 4 at 6'6" and 205lbs? Have any stats that say Drake can't play either?

Now as for this really bad when Lubin and JWit are in together, seen that a lot have you? Up to the Clemson game, how many minutes was JWit getting recently, well under 10mins a game wasn't it? AND, when JWiith does get in to a game, where do you see him go on offense, directly to the deep corner, do not pass go, do not pick up $200...

 

[DSouthr]

In any given game, the worst UNC player on the court is probably the biggest guy. Somebody has to be worst. It's not automatically disparaging.

Who is the next worst? Might not be the same guy every game. RJ and Ian were struggling early on. Ian is struggling currently (freshman wall?). Drake had a lackluster run for a bit.

So, yeah, Cadeau is sometimes that guy, but not always.

Seth was struggling a bit just before his injury, but now he's back.

RJ struggled early but he's back.

It won't surprise me if Ian and Elliot snap back.

The reason Ian is struggling goes back to when he broke in with that string of 20pt games. Recall what got him off, he was moving his darn feet and allowing switching to get him a match up out front against a big man, he drove that big man. He started mixing in some step back jumpers because teams saw he was driving on film, so the step back set up his continued driving. Teams realized, best not let Ian get the matching up in space against a big so their guards started switching to him and not allowing their bigs to. So, riding a hot streak, Ian rather than drive against the quickness of the guards began to settle for deep trey jumpers, hit them for a game or 2 but the law of averages set in and now he can buy a bucket.

This is, we really didn't set anything up for Ian, it was him getting the match up he wanted and exploiting it. But team adjusted from his film, I would like to see us run some of that BHO zoom stuff for Ian, he has the length that RJ doesn't but he has to look for the pass more and not be single minded to the rim or bust. Note to Ian, that amazing cross over and first step works so much better against big men than it does guards.