Iran nuclear deal

[UNC '92]

Not just Iran.
Righties seem to say the deal is a bad one, but don't have an alternative proposal except that Iran must agree to every demand we have had. That's unrealistic and Iran will never submit to that. They would just accelerate their program if they were to feel threatened as which is what they have been doing for the last ~13 years. That isn't a solution. Israel has been spying on us for over 40 years and stealing our technology secrets so we have some catching up to do. Bout time we returned the favor to them.

I happened to like our policy we had in regards to them. I don't give a flip about Iran and keeping them on the outside looking in with embargoes and whatnot was fine. I don't care if Iran is engaged with that. They are our enemy and still are even after this deal. At some point we are going to have to deal with a nuclear Iran so I'd rather them not have a deal with us at all. The only deal we should give them is try and make a bomb and we will cripple you. And we have been spying on everybody for longer than Israel, anything they deserve, we deserve it too. But they aren't our enemies, Iran is so I prefer to see them suffer.

 

[gunslingerdick]

The only deal we should give them is try and make a bomb and we will cripple you. .

Yep.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

Problem is we can't cripple their nuclear capacity. They have hardened it too much. Crippling them by bombing or sanctions make all of them enemies and give their leadership continued reasons for calling us the Great Satan. Their people are very progressive. We should support that and try to get them to overthrow their government. Telling the whole country to f$%k off will keep them as out enemy. To keep following a failed foreign policy doctrine is not the right solution. Look at Iraq as proof of that.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

And we have been spying on everybody for longer than Israel, anything they deserve, we deserve it too. But they aren't our enemies, Iran is so I prefer to see them suffer.

We don't steal their technology, that might be because they don't have any that we need. They have stole ours which is my big problem.

 

[UNC '92]

Problem is we can't cripple their nuclear capacity. They have hardened it too much. Crippling them by bombing or sanctions make all of them enemies and give their leadership continued reasons for calling us the Great Satan. Their people are very progressive. We should support that and try to get them to overthrow their government. Telling the whole country to f$%k off will keep them as out enemy. To keep following a failed foreign policy doctrine is not the right solution. Look at Iraq as proof of that.

You keep saying we can't cripple their technology. I believe we can. Not everything is going to be done with a bomb. We have already proven that stuxnet was effective in crippling their operations and setting them back. We have that option amongst many others (special ops, inside job, hacking, troops, and much more) that we can use. If we want it down bad enough we can take it down. What, you think we are just going to quit and sit down in the middle of the street and cry? You think Israel is just going to throw their hands up in the air and say "Oh well!" That kind of thinking has gotten us to this last round of appeasement. And their people are not all as progressive as you think. They still spend a good amount of time chanting "Death to America" during organized rallies such as the ones they had just before this bad deal was struck. Face it, this is Obama just wanting to say "See? I got is a deal with Iran. No other President did that! I am literally the most awesome ever!" When in reality no president before him was fool enough to strike a deal with Iran knowing they will have to end up going after them for breaking it. Which leave us with what? Back to where we started with embargoes and threats. But Obama won't care. He will have long rolled out and gotten his library.

 

[UNC '92]

We don't steal their technology, that might be because they don't have any that we need. They have stole ours which is my big problem.

Yeah we never stole a thing from anyone. I get it, you hate Israel. I wish most left leaning Jewish folks in this country were aware how much they are hated by their own party.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Problem is we can't cripple their nuclear capacity. They have hardened it too much. Crippling them by bombing or sanctions make all of them enemies and give their leadership continued reasons for calling us the Great Satan. Their people are very progressive. We should support that and try to get them to overthrow their government. Telling the whole country to f$%k off will keep them as out enemy. To keep following a failed foreign policy doctrine is not the right solution. Look at Iraq as proof of that.

You keep saying we can't cripple their technology. I believe we can. Not everything is going to be done with a bomb. We have already proven that stuxnet was effective in crippling their operations and setting them back. We have that option amongst many others (special ops, inside job, hacking, troops, and much more) that we can use. If we want it down bad enough we can take it down. What, you think we are just going to quit and sit down in the middle of the street and cry? You think Israel is just going to throw their hands up in the air and say "Oh well!" That kind of thinking has gotten us to this last round of appeasement. And their people are not all as progressive as you think. They still spend a good amount of time chanting "Death to America" during organized rallies such as the ones they had just before this bad deal was struck. Face it, this is Obama just wanting to say "See? I got is a deal with Iran. No other President did that! I am literally the most awesome ever!" When in reality no president before him was fool enough to strike a deal with Iran knowing they will have to end up going after them for breaking it. Which leave us with what? Back to where we started with embargoes and threats. But Obama won't care. He will have long rolled out and gotten his library.

Double like

 

[strummingram]

Yeah we never stole a thing from anyone. I get it, you hate Israel. I wish most left leaning Jewish folks in this country were aware how much they are hated by their own party.

Why does wanting to try to be cordial with Iran make you HATE Israel? That's pretty presumptuous. You know, there are Jews IN Iran, too!? In fact, outside of Israel, there are more Jews in Iran than any other Middle Eastern country!

How did Iran become America's sworn enemy? I guess they are next in line? If some of them presently have harsh feelings toward us, and I have seen examples that would suggest that; then why is that? I doubt very many people here have the vaguest clue what the daily life and culture of Iran is like. Probably as much as they did with Iraq before everyone started rattling swords to go there and take over. Pakistan has nukes. India has them. North Korea has them. Israel, Russia, etc. I don't necessarily want more people to have them, but I see nothing that proves that as soon as Iran gets one then it's "So Long Planet Earth!" I see a lot of speculation, propaganda and fear being fed everywhere, but they did that for the better part of 40 years with the USSR, too! If I'm not mistaken, America had it's hand in the Iran/Iraq war back in the 80's, too. Probably playing both sides against the other, too.

As LTH stated, Iran is a progressing, up-and-coming country. They are, primarily, a Theocracy, but a lot of religious people on this very board show signs of being okay with a theocracy. We've determined that our "God" is the same God. It seems like Americans have been conditioned from the get-go that we need some rival/sworn enemy/bogeyman at all times. If we don't have one, we'll quickly make one, or several. Iran is not much different from any Middle Eastern country! They speak Parsi, so, there's that! They took our embassy and people hostage 36 years ago. If you read-up on our involvement over there since the late 1940's, you get an idea of why they had such harsh feelings toward us back then. It doesn't justify what they did at all, but at least you get some insight as to WHY. If other countries did to us what we have done to a lot of smaller countries, we (as citizens) would very likely act-out harshly toward the people we thought were responsible for oppressing us.

 

[strummingram]

Syria, Iraq and Yemen say hello.

I dunno about Yemen or Syria, but, during the Iraq/Iran war of the 1980's, it was Iraq that invaded Iran, my friend.

 

[dgheel57]

All this talk of a possible war with Iran,we better hold off until we see how much Obozo cuts back on the military.Until he is out of office Iran has no worries.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

I think what LTH seems to be postulating (a regional nuclear conflict between Iran and Israel) is now very likely in our lifetime. This conflict could spill-over to involve Russian nuclear and conventional forces, Libya, Syria, Sudan and many other regional players. Such a war could escalate out of control to a global nuclear exchange.

 

[tazki]

All this talk of a possible war with Iran,we better hold off until we see how much Obozo cuts back on the military.Until he is out of office Iran has no worries.

On the flip side we have much to worry about. The man despises this country and anyone that can't see that is a fool.

 

[BillyL]

On the flip side we have much to worry about. The man despises this country and anyone that can't see that is a fool.

LMFAO . .

Yeah, he's single-handediy killing this country.

Truth be told, you and all of your republican party should be partly to blame . . . If, only you boys would've won the 2012 POTUS election, you would've saved all of us, and our country too. But alas, you let all of us down, because you let Obozo win a second election.

 

[uncboy10]

On the flip side we have much to worry about. The man despises this country and anyone that can't see that is a fool.

Yikes.

 

[UNC '92]

Why does wanting to try to be cordial with Iran make you HATE Israel? That's pretty presumptuous. You know, there are Jews IN Iran, too!? In fact, outside of Israel, there are more Jews in Iran than any other Middle Eastern country!

Nobody said that. I said luv hated Israel because of the things he stated here in this thread. You can read those and it doesn't take 4 degrees in psychology to see he is not fond of Israel. I then simply wondered why those who are Jewish and liberal don't know how much they are hated by the left. Now some libs may hate Israel because of Iran, I suspect that's true in some cases too.

Iran became our enemy when they took several hundred of our folks hostage (my Uncle was one of them) during our second weakest Presidents stint in office. I don't give a crap as to what led up to it, and nothing we did called for that response by the way, nothing. Since then they have labeled us as the Great Satan and stage rallies where Death to America is the rally cry. And they haven't stopped since. So see, thats enough of a reason for me to call them my enemy.

And have you ever been to Iran? You talk like you have. If so you'd know they aren't as progressive as you and luv are trying to make them out to be. If they are so different than their rulers then they should affect change through revolution. If they can do that, and in the process denounce their sworn goal of wiping out other countries and stop being the largest state sponsor of terrorism, then I'd reconsider my stance. But only a little. But for now I'm going to support my team on this one, not theirs.

 

[strummingram]

Nobody said that. I said luv hated Israel because of the things he stated here in this thread. You can read those and it doesn't take 4 degrees in psychology to see he is not fond of Israel. I then simply wondered why those who are Jewish and liberal don't know how much they are hated by the left. Now some libs may hate Israel because of Iran, I suspect that's true in some cases too.

Iran became our enemy when they took several hundred of our folks hostage (my Uncle was one of them) during our second weakest Presidents stint in office. I don't give a crap as to what led up to it, and nothing we did called for that response by the way, nothing. Since then they have labeled us as the Great Satan and stage rallies where Death to America is the rally cry. And they haven't stopped since. So see, thats enough of a reason for me to call them my enemy.

And have you ever been to Iran? You talk like you have. If so you'd know they aren't as progressive as you and luv are trying to make them out to be. If they are so different than their rulers then they should affect change through revolution. If they can do that, and in the process denounce their sworn goal of wiping out other countries and stop being the largest state sponsor of terrorism, then I'd reconsider my stance. But only a little. But for now I'm going to support my team on this one, not theirs.

Do you know WHY they took hostages? Do you have any idea what the motivation for that was based upon? It was wrong to do it, but it helps to try and understand why.


Here's a more objective take on the culture there.

 

[UNC '92]

Do you know WHY they took hostages? Do you have any idea what the motivation for that was based upon? It was wrong to do it, but it helps to try and understand why.


Here's a more objective take on the culture there.

Of course I do. It's always "the oil!" It doesn't change a thing. I'm also not overly obsessed on getting in touch with our enemies feelings. It's laughable to think for one second that we are going to exist peacefully with Iran until they change their leadership. And links to the thoughts and musings of an overly sensitive liberal or libertarian isn't going to change my mind either. Just as my own thoughts aren't going to change yours.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

Yeah we never stole a thing from anyone. I get it, you hate Israel. I wish most left leaning Jewish folks in this country were aware how much they are hated by their own party.

I'm not talking about us. Are you okay with Israel or anyone else stealing our technology? I'm not. Then you follow it up with a fu$ked up comment about me hating Israel. That's pretty stupid and quite a stretch, but spot on when a righties gets his little feelings hurt. If you don't want to debate like a grown up just stop posting.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

You keep saying we can't cripple their technology. I believe we can. Not everything is going to be done with a bomb. We have already proven that stuxnet was effective in crippling their operations and setting them back. We have that option amongst many others (special ops, inside job, hacking, troops, and much more) that we can use. If we want it down bad enough we can take it down. What, you think we are just going to quit and sit down in the middle of the street and cry? You think Israel is just going to throw their hands up in the air and say "Oh well!" That kind of thinking has gotten us to this last round of appeasement. And their people are not all as progressive as you think. They still spend a good amount of time chanting "Death to America" during organized rallies such as the ones they had just before this bad deal was struck. Face it, this is Obama just wanting to say "See? I got is a deal with Iran. No other President did that! I am literally the most awesome ever!" When in reality no president before him was fool enough to strike a deal with Iran knowing they will have to end up going after them for breaking it. Which leave us with what? Back to where we started with embargoes and threats. But Obama won't care. He will have long rolled out and gotten his library.

I'm going with what our and Israeli intelligence has said. They could not significantly cripple Iran's nuclear capacity. You seem to think differently and that's fine. I prefer to go with the intelligence reports I have read.

"What, you think we are just going to quit and sit down in the middle of the street and cry? You think Israel is just going to throw their hands up in the air and say "Oh well!" That kind of thinking has gotten us to this last round of appeasement." These few sentences seem to contradict each other, but I will comment on the so-called "appeasement." Negotiations with an enemy is not appeasement. Nixon did it, Reagan did it so it is not unprecedented. The Bush doctrine doesn't work even though cons wish it would. Fact is there probably wasn't a better deal out there and the other countries at the table were about done with the sanctions. This keeps the sanctions on the table if Iran doesn't comply.

 

[UNC '92]

I'm not talking about us. Are you okay with Israel or anyone else stealing our technology? I'm not. Then you follow it up with a fu$ked up comment about me hating Israel. That's pretty stupid and quite a stretch, but spot on when a righties gets his little feelings hurt. If you don't want to debate like a grown up just stop posting.

It seems you are the one whose feelings are hurt. How does your dislike of Israel translate to my feelings in any way? I am just pointing out the fact that you don't like Israel and seem to favor Iran even though they have also stolen technology from us. You said its about time we returned the favor. Not sure but I pretty much think that means you'd like to see us do something less than friendly to Israel. This is what I expect though when a lib gets all sore about things they don't like hearing. Immediately out comes the shrill cries and whining about ending any debate they can't handle. I'm not calling you names, just telling you how you I perceive you.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

Nobody said that. I said luv hated Israel because of the things he stated here in this thread. You can read those and it doesn't take 4 degrees in psychology to see he is not fond of Israel. I then simply wondered why those who are Jewish and liberal don't know how much they are hated by the left. Now some libs may hate Israel because of Iran, I suspect that's true in some cases too.

That's a load of bullsh!t right there.

Iran became our enemy when they took several hundred of our folks hostage (my Uncle was one of them) during our second weakest Presidents stint in office. I don't give a crap as to what led up to it, and nothing we did called for that response by the way, nothing. Since then they have labeled us as the Great Satan and stage rallies where Death to America is the rally cry. And they haven't stopped since. So see, thats enough of a reason for me to call them my enemy.

Taking hostages is never something that a country should do. They hated the Shah and knew he was an American puppet (pretty much) and they struck out in the only way they could in 1979. Fact is Carter should have gotten the embassy cleared out way prior to that. He blew it.

And have you ever been to Iran? You talk like you have. If so you'd know they aren't as progressive as you and luv are trying to make them out to be. If they are so different than their rulers then they should affect change through revolution. If they can do that, and in the process denounce their sworn goal of wiping out other countries and stop being the largest state sponsor of terrorism, then I'd reconsider my stance. But only a little. But for now I'm going to support my team on this one, not theirs.

They are a repressed people. Do you know how hard it is to start a revolution nowadays when faced with modern weaponry? Damn near impossible. The best way I've seen in modern times is to allow more Western influence in the country, see the USSR, China, Eastern Europe. Non-violent revolutions.

Note: I can't figure out how to quote and respond to each comment in the body of the post so sorry about the format here.

 

[UNC '92]

I'm going with what our and Israeli intelligence has said. They could not significantly cripple Iran's nuclear capacity. You seem to think differently and that's fine. I prefer to go with the intelligence reports I have read.

"What, you think we are just going to quit and sit down in the middle of the street and cry? You think Israel is just going to throw their hands up in the air and say "Oh well!" That kind of thinking has gotten us to this last round of appeasement." These few sentences seem to contradict each other, but I will comment on the so-called "appeasement." Negotiations with an enemy is not appeasement. Nixon did it, Reagan did it so it is not unprecedented. The Bush doctrine doesn't work even though cons wish it would. Fact is there probably wasn't a better deal out there and the other countries at the table were about done with the sanctions. This keeps the sanctions on the table if Iran doesn't comply.

Ok so the debate can continue. Good. Those statements do not in anyway contradict anything. Here is the thing, you think there was no better deal out there, but there was. The current one where we had them on financial lock down. And if we think they are getting close to a nuke, we kick their teeth in. Just because this idea repulses libs doesn't mean it doesn't work. And I'm sorry you believe that Israel intelligence is sharing everything they know with you, but they are not. The only urgency to do any deal was manufactured by our current leadership so they could say they got a deal done. No matter how bad the deal is. Right out of the liberal playbook.

 

[UNC '92]

They are a repressed people. Do you know how hard it is to start a revolution nowadays when faced with modern weaponry? Damn near impossible. The best way I've seen in modern times is to allow more Western influence in the country, see the USSR, China, Eastern Europe. Non-violent revolutions.

Note: I can't figure out how to quote and respond to each comment in the body of the post so sorry about the format here.

Say something nice about Israel. I dare you. Also the USSR, China? The USSR is regressing backwards in case you haven't noticed. They have had enough of our influence and are lashing out every chance they get. China will always be wary of western influence and we won't change much there. Bad examples.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

It seems you are the one whose feelings are hurt. How does your dislike of Israel translate to my feelings in any way? I am just pointing out the fact that you don't like Israel and seem to favor Iran even though they have also stolen technology from us. You said its about time we returned the favor. Not sure but I pretty much think that means you'd like to see us do something less than friendly to Israel. This is what I expect though when a lib gets all sore about things they don't like hearing. Immediately out comes the shrill cries and whining about ending any debate they can't handle. I'm not calling you names, just telling you how you I perceive you.

I don't like the current Israeli government one bit but that doesn't translate into Israeli hatred unless you want to stretch it like you have. Now I like Iran too? It's hard to debate someone with so little knowledge of the facts and history around the region. Shrill? Too funny, you start with insults and I respond in kind and I'm being shrill. Another reach I see. Couldn't bring any facts to the table so insults work.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

Ok so the debate can continue. Good. Those statements do not in anyway contradict anything. Here is the thing, you think there was no better deal out there, but there was. The current one where we had them on financial lock down. And if we think they are getting close to a nuke, we kick their teeth in. Just because this idea repulses libs doesn't mean it doesn't work. And I'm sorry you believe that Israel intelligence is sharing everything they know with you, but they are not. The only urgency to do any deal was manufactured by our current leadership so they could say they got a deal done. No matter how bad the deal is. Right out of the liberal playbook.

So you are okay with Iran being a couple of weeks away from producing a bomb? there was no current deal. Sanctions are not a deal they accelerated Iran's program not decreased it. How are we going to kick their teeth in that lessens their nuclear capacity short of a war and occupation? Sanctions don't repulse me one bit if they work. These weren't stopping Iran's nuclear program they were just repressing their population and helping to keep the current leadership in power.

 

[UNC '92]

I don't like the current Israeli government one bit but that doesn't translate into Israeli hatred unless you want to stretch it like you have. Now I like Iran too? It's hard to debate someone with so little knowledge of the facts and history around the region. Shrill? Too funny, you start with insults and I respond in kind and I'm being shrill. Another reach I see. Couldn't bring any facts to the table so insults work.

I haven't made any untrue statements nor did I insult you. Unless you are one of those overly-sensitive liberals I was talking about. Again, it's just how I perceive you. I apologize if you are offended.

So little knowledge of the region? Professor, I've been over there. Once for a year and a half. So while that doesn't make me an expert I do know a little.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

Say something nice about Israel. I dare you. Also the USSR, China? The USSR is regressing backwards in case you haven't noticed. They have had enough of our influence and are lashing out every chance they get. China will always be wary of western influence and we won't change much there. Bad examples.

They are the only true democracy in the region and they have every right to protect themselves. Is that nice enough? FYI, the USSR doesn't exist anymore, you might want to catch up a bit. They are trying to expand their power in what they believe is their region (and need to be stopped), but they aren't going back to their old system of government. Putin has the support of his people for the most part. China is far more influenced by Western culture and technology than ever before mainly due to their population demanding it and the government conceding that they have to do it to stay in power. That's the point I am making. China is nowhere near as repressive as it was 25 years ago due to the Chinese people

 

[UNC '92]

So you are okay with Iran being a couple of weeks away from producing a bomb? there was no current deal. Sanctions are not a deal they accelerated Iran's program not decreased it. How are we going to kick their teeth in that lessens their nuclear capacity short of a war and occupation? Sanctions don't repulse me one bit if they work. These weren't stopping Iran's nuclear program they were just repressing their population and helping to keep the current leadership in power.

I am ok with us blasting them back to the Stone Age. It worked in Japan. And this new deal does nothing to stop them from building a bomb. In fact, it makes it easier. What about this new deal makes you think Iran isn't going to continue to secretly make a nuclear bomb? Do you think we are going to hold them accountable when we catch them doing it too?

 

[UNC '92]

They are the only true democracy in the region and they have every right to protect themselves. Is that nice enough? FYI, the USSR doesn't exist anymore, you might want to catch up a bit. They are trying to expand their power in what they believe is their region (and need to be stopped), but they aren't going back to their old system of government. Putin has the support of his people for the most part. China is far more influenced by Western culture and technology than ever before mainly due to their population demanding it and the government conceding that they have to do it to stay in power. That's the point I am making. China is nowhere near as repressive as it was 25 years ago due to the Chinese people

You said USSR, I was just using your words. And they are a bad example. China is a bit less repressive, but if you think they are not repressive then you are wrong. And they are never going to go "full western" on us.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

I am ok with us blasting them back to the Stone Age. It worked in Japan. And this new deal does nothing to stop them from building a bomb. In fact, it makes it easier. What about this new deal makes you think Iran isn't going to continue to secretly make a nuclear bomb? Do you think we are going to hold them accountable when we catch them doing it too?

Not sure how it worked with Japan exactly since they were pretty much already beaten, but okay.
Did you read the deal? I did and it does slow down their nuclear capacity quite a bit, not as much as I would have liked but it does. It also looks to be verifiable and sanctions can be re-applied pretty easily and without Security Council approval if Iran is caught cheating. One problem is the rest of the countries involved wanted to remove sanctions too and they have much closer economic ties to Iran than we do. The deal that we could have gotten in 2003, when Iran didn't have much capacity, was much better but Bush would not talk to Iran then.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

You said USSR, I was just using your words. And they are a bad example. China is a bit less repressive, but if you think they are not repressive then you are wrong. And they are never going to go "full western" on us.

I used USSR because it was that prior to ~1990. Disagree on them being a bad example and I think I showed that. You can take it however you like. I could go deeper but it won't make any difference to you. I didn't say China wasn't repressive, I said they are a lot less repressive than they were in 1990 and it's due to their people wanting more Western influences available.

 

[UNC '92]

Not sure how it worked with Japan exactly since they were pretty much already beaten, but okay.
Did you read the deal? I did and it does slow down their nuclear capacity quite a bit, not as much as I would have liked but it does. It also looks to be verifiable and sanctions can be re-applied pretty easily and without Security Council approval if Iran is caught cheating. One problem is the rest of the countries involved wanted to remove sanctions too and they have much closer economic ties to Iran than we do. The deal that we could have gotten in 2003, when Iran didn't have much capacity, was much better but Bush would not talk to Iran then.

Japan was not beaten yet. And if we had to go in there on the ground it would have been a lot worse for us. We did the right thing at the time. And now look at Japan. They are one of our biggest allies.

I did read the deal. And it does not slow them down. They can continue to secretly go at it and slow inspection up to 20 some odd days before anyone can get in there and have a look. Leaving them enough time to conceal, move or clean up what they are doing. And when we do catch them, we are back to the sanctions. Why would we go back to the sanctions if they aren't working. The fact is they were working and Iran was desperate to get rid of them so they could bide their time. I say keep the sanctions and bust a pop knot upside their heads when we think they are close to that bomb.

 

[UNC '92]

Oh and mark this down. Iran will have a nuclear bomb before Obama is out of office.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

Japan was not beaten yet. And if we had to go in there on the ground it would have been a lot worse for us. We did the right thing at the time. And now look at Japan. They are one of our biggest allies.

I did read the deal. And it does not slow them down. They can continue to secretly go at it and slow inspection up to 20 some odd days before anyone can get in there and have a look. Leaving them enough time to conceal, move or clean up what they are doing. And when we do catch them, we are back to the sanctions. Why would we go back to the sanctions if they aren't working. The fact is they were working and Iran was desperate to get rid of them so they could bide their time. I say keep the sanctions and bust a pop knot upside their heads when we think they are close to that bomb.

Japan was on the verge of surrender prior to Hiroshima and the Emperor was prepared to do so, there have been plenty of documents showing that. I agree that we should have dropped the bomb but not solely because Japan would not surrendered without it. Stalin needed to see it work as well to check their advances.

From what I read 20 days in nowhere near enough time to conceal, move, or clean up their sites if we think they are cheating. What other options would there be short of war other than sanctions? I'm not sure Iran was that desperate to get rid of the sanctions since they were not the ones who started talking.

 

[lovetheHeels!]

Oh and mark this down. Iran will have a nuclear bomb before Obama is out of office.

Wager?

 

[Raising Heel]

Oh and mark this down. Iran will have a nuclear bomb before Obama is out of office.

Wager?

 

[UNC '92]

Wager?

Sure. What do you have in mind?

 

[BillyL]

Just curious here, how will you be able to prove that Iran has that nuclear bomb by January, 2017 . . ?

 

[UNC '92]

Japan was on the verge of surrender prior to Hiroshima and the Emperor was prepared to do so, there have been plenty of documents showing that. I agree that we should have dropped the bomb but not solely because Japan would not surrendered without it. Stalin needed to see it work as well to check their advances.

From what I read 20 days in nowhere near enough time to conceal, move, or clean up their sites if we think they are cheating. What other options would there be short of war other than sanctions? I'm not sure Iran was that desperate to get rid of the sanctions since they were not the ones who started talking.

Iran has 24 days to move or clean up, which is enough time. However, if they refuse or do not acknowledge an inspection request the dispute mechanism could take up to an additional 50 days to resolve the matter meaning it could be more than 74 days before an inspector can get to a declared site. And what about the undeclared ones? Unfortunately the deal is not based on verification because the mechanisms of verification are weak. It is, in fact, based on trust. Which Iran could care less about and will violate the deal with impunity. And then we will sit our hands and say we need to renegotiate. And as I stated before, we didn't need any more options, such as this deal, to end up right back where we are going to be anyway. Dealing with a nuclear Iran.

 

[UNC '92]

Just curious here, how will you be able to prove that Iran has that nuclear bomb by January, 2017 . . ?

That could be a potential problem that goes both ways.