Roy is way beyond Beamer in his respective coaching profession. Beamer has never scaled the mountain top. Roy has twice.
Is Roy Beamering?
- Thread starter WoadBlue
- Start date
In the decade you mentioned, Roy has been to the 2005, 2008, and 2009 FFs. That's 3. The first coach I bothered to check was Calipari, who has been to the 2008, 2011, 2012, 2014, and 2015 FFs. That's 5. Maybe there's more coaches as well, but I stopped looking after the first one proved you wrong.
I guess you're one of those posters that "facts be damned" when you hit the keyboard. But as you mentioned... That trait can't be fixed.
Some of you people need to relax and not take this so seriously. I forgot that I'm dealing mostly with message board guys and a reason why I was reluctant to post in the first place. Having a discussion with some of you is like talking to a child. God forbid some people don't think Roy is the messiah of basketball coaching or if somebody should point out a player that isn't what they are supposed to be. Relax. It's only a game. A game that neither you nor I have any impact on.
Fact: Roy Williams has been the head coach at Kansas and UNC. Can we agree that simply by showing up, you can win 15 games per year minimum? At the big time schools don't we judge how coaches do when they face an equal program/coach? I know I do. Beating Tulane means nothing. Beating UNI doesn't mean anything, but losing to a team like that does when you were the preseason #1 and brought everybody back. Yes I know Paige was not there, but are we that dependent on one person that we can't beat a UNI team that lost a lot from last year? I think somebody people are seeing the chinks in the armor. The same chinks that we've had the past few years. Some people seem to ignore that and think that this team, as is, can win it all in March. Unless this team finds a drive and passion to play defense, we are in the same boat as we have been the last few years. We don't have an uber talented team like we had in 2005 and 2009.
We've went on the road and lost to two teams we should not lose to. We have a road/neutral win over a not great NW team. I don't think any of our NCAA tourney games will be at UNC so that appears that our team is not tough enough to handle a not so friendly environment. We thrive at home like all teams do, but get us on the road or neutral court and our guys become soft. I guess if you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. Proceed to call me stupid..........
This team has lost two games, one without Paige at Northern Iowa and to a red-hot (at least on that day) Texas team with a crippled Meeks. I hate to see the Heels lose as much as anyone and more than most but to heap on this type of BS about Roy is absurd. He understands the limitations his team has and I am certain that he has plans in place to mitigate the deficiencies. I do not think the game has passed him by any more than I think it had passed Coach Smith by in the late 80's when many people were saying he was too old and had lost his edge.
Let's get past the damage inflicted by the scandal and allow Roy to get back to what he does. He is a Hall of Fame coach at the best college in the country, let's treat him as such!
Let's get past the damage inflicted by the scandal and allow Roy to get back to what he does. He is a Hall of Fame coach at the best college in the country, let's treat him as such!
If the Heels win Saturday, that will be 2 wins this year against the top 25, Michigan St is the only team in the top 10 that can say they did that too. UNC has played two true road games, only 5 teams in the top 10 can claim they have played one true road game, let alone two. Oh, and 3 out of those 5 teams have an L. Yea, no time to panic with Ol Roy. The man knows what he is doing. Where were his doubters with the execution against Maryland? I have a feeling some doubters will be put to rest on Saturday as well....
He's one of those guys when they post I just smh ...he tries to be cute but more times than not he has no clue what the hell hes talking about
Seems to me you are getting a little bent out of shape also? Maybe it's time for you to "relax"?
Fact:
Roy Williams got the head coaching gig at Kansas and UNC because he CAN coach. Why are we taking wins away from him because of where he has coached? That just isn't fair.
The Associated Press Coach of the Year award twice. He was first honored in 1992 with the Kansas Jayhawks. He was recognized at North Carolina in 2006, as he had a surprisingly successful season after losing 96% of the 2005 championship squad's scoring productivity. He is only the seventh coach in history to win the award twice and the second to do it at two different schools.
Naismith College Coach of the Year (1997)
9 Conference coach of the year awards
7 Final Fours (Fourth all-time)
.7988 all time winning % (6th all time)
758 wins (13th all time and moving up)
2 National Championships
If you want to panic this year, go ahead. The accolades above make me believe Roy will get things straighten out.
Does Frank Beamer even have 5% of the accolades above that Roy has?
Yes, Roy has had an amazing career. An all time great coach, and a well deserved HOFer.
Those coaches of the year awards you reference are over a decade old. Final Fours and National championships are getting further and further in the rear view mirror. I do believe the overhang/black cloud from the NCAA deal and other issues are putting a lot of undue stress on him and hindering the performance of the team as a result, which are out of his control.
But my only question is how long do we stay content with the direction of the program? Has Roy earned the right to coach as long as he wants, even if doing so is at the detriment of the team (again, to be clear I'm not saying he's a detriment to the team as of now, just merely bringing up the question to see if there are fans that are find with him coaching as long as he wants even if it is no longer in the best interest of the program). I do agree that "beamering" was an unnecessary jab, but what else would you expect from Woad.
Adolf Rupp, Dean Smith, and John Wooden were all amazing coaches as well - multiple final fours and national championships and coach of the year awards between the 3 of them, and all HOFers, just like Roy. But I wouldn't want any of the 3 of them coaching the team right now.
Those coaches of the year awards you reference are over a decade old. Final Fours and National championships are getting further and further in the rear view mirror. I do believe the overhang/black cloud from the NCAA deal and other issues are putting a lot of undue stress on him and hindering the performance of the team as a result, which are out of his control.
But my only question is how long do we stay content with the direction of the program? Has Roy earned the right to coach as long as he wants, even if doing so is at the detriment of the team (again, to be clear I'm not saying he's a detriment to the team as of now, just merely bringing up the question to see if there are fans that are find with him coaching as long as he wants even if it is no longer in the best interest of the program). I do agree that "beamering" was an unnecessary jab, but what else would you expect from Woad.
Adolf Rupp, Dean Smith, and John Wooden were all amazing coaches as well - multiple final fours and national championships and coach of the year awards between the 3 of them, and all HOFers, just like Roy. But I wouldn't want any of the 3 of them coaching the team right now.
Roy isn't the same and our program isn't the same. The difference between me and many others is, I'm ok with it. If it turns out we're not a blue blood going forward, I can live with that as long as I still get enjoyment from following the program. Sure, I'd like to get back to the way we were. But I've accepted that might not happen.
Roy isn't going to change. So if you're one who just can't stand where we are, then you do support firing Roy and moving on. Roy will either win with his style or not. He's not going to all of a sudden start attracting OAD players like K did. K has adapted. Good for him. Roy's not going to. Bad for us, I reckon. So we can hope for the perfect storm of everything coming together just right for us every now and then, or you can be a miserable fan. From where I sit, those are the options.
Go Heels.
Roy isn't going to change. So if you're one who just can't stand where we are, then you do support firing Roy and moving on. Roy will either win with his style or not. He's not going to all of a sudden start attracting OAD players like K did. K has adapted. Good for him. Roy's not going to. Bad for us, I reckon. So we can hope for the perfect storm of everything coming together just right for us every now and then, or you can be a miserable fan. From where I sit, those are the options.
Go Heels.
Tell ya what, Sparky.
Go catch a case of the stomach flu then try and play a basketball game.
Report back.
Can't wait to hear your insights...
roy lost early season games even with teams like 05 and 09. at kansas he lost an early season game to UNC with freshmen mcants, felton and may. roy will have this team playing its best ball by the end of the year.
as far as him willing to sacrifice defense for offense--you take the good with the bad. that style has produced 2 national championships in the last 10 years. it is what it is. i imagine we will compete for the title this year and once we get the academic issues over with then roy will once again get his share of top 15-20 recruits and we will compete for another one or two before he retires.
as far as him willing to sacrifice defense for offense--you take the good with the bad. that style has produced 2 national championships in the last 10 years. it is what it is. i imagine we will compete for the title this year and once we get the academic issues over with then roy will once again get his share of top 15-20 recruits and we will compete for another one or two before he retires.
Am I wrong in saying that his first national championship was won with somebody else's recruits and BOTH teams were ultra talented, so talented that not winning the championship would have been absurd?
I'm not saying he sucks or that we should fire him. I just think he is stubborn and the game is changing and he is not changing with it. Not to mention that he's not getting the best players or at least not as many as the other big time programs. I'm just not as ok with the losses we have this year as some of you other guys. A loss to UNI this year is inexcusable no matter what. If we are as talented as some think and a legit contender, you win that game. Texas shot lights out, but that is partially on Roy as well as he couldn't care less about perimeter defense and that has been our Achilles heel for years now. It's not a coincidence that a LOT of teams have their best shooting days against us.
We will easily win 20+ games this year and that is great. Let's see how we do against the big boys, especially on the road, and how we do postseason. That's really the only way to measure this team.
you gotta love the way Woad lit this inferno and then sits back as you guys exchange insults.
Do you REALLY think that Doh would've coached the Heels to the 05 title?
Keep digging, let's see if he was grossly overexagerating or simply bending the truth slightly. I think you stopped because, other than Cal and perhaps Knight Lite, I think Roy lead his team to the FF more than anyone else during the last decàde. So let's say we've been more than any team other than dook and NBDLU. That'a damn impressive to me, especially considering Butter's injury in 2012 and the cloud of a never ending investigation.
Four teams won two titles in the last decade, UNC/UConn/UF/dook. Despite assembling more talent than mày have ever been amassed in the history of college ball over the last decade, Cal has won exactly one title. Has he underachieved with those rosters filled with future pros? Seems like we're still running with the big dogs to me!
Some of our fans àre impossible to please!
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After Beamer's negative recruiting shenanigans against UNC, it's disgraceful to compare the two. I'm not beyond questioning Coach Roy's decisions or coaching, but find a better comparison than Beamer, like maybe, I don't know, DEAN E SMITH. He suffered some less than stellar-by-UNC-standard years before the run from 1993-1997. Some of the same things they said about Dean, others say about Roy these days.
I can answer that one for you...HELL NO....because he wouldn't have had those players to begin with. They would've all transferred out.
Well finally the (time for Roy to go support has showed up) thanks guys as I have been beating this drum for 5 years. Really have enjoyed reading all the unbiased and rational points. Thanks Roy and yes
U have been paid very well for ur
Time
Served and looking
Forward to new leadership.Go TArheels
U have been paid very well for ur
Time
Served and looking
Forward to new leadership.Go TArheels
Mnt-feist, may Rudolph and his reindeer friends leave you some holiday cheer on your carpet...
BINGO!!!!
One of these years Roy will retire, only then will many see just what a GREAT Coach-Person he was.
I honestly stopped because I found 1 (Cal) and just wanted to point out that he was being very hypocritical about not paying attention to facts when posting, considering he didn't post a true fact. Now that I've looked into it a little more, Tom Izzo has been to 4 (2005, 2009, 2010, 2015) and Billy Donovan is tied with Roy with 3 FFs (2006, 2007, 2014) as is Rick Pitino (2005, 2012, 2013) as is Ben Howland (2006, 2007, 2008) in the last "decade", but those 5 and Roy are the only ones with 3+ I believe (Uconn has made 3 FFs but it was split between Calhoun and Ollie). Knight Lite (I love your nickname for K by the way, cracks me up every time) has actually only made 2 (the 2 he won, he also made it in 2004 but that was outside the randomly selected 11 year period of 2005-2015).
I wouldn't say our fans are impossible to please, but yes, some of our fans are very tough to please. That comes with the territory of coaching a blue blood school though. I think the main issue here is that all of the above mentioned coaches (except Howland, but including Knight Lite, Calhoun, and Ollie) have all been to FFs more recently than Roy, and with the exception of Donovan and Howland, have all won titles more recently than Roy (and even Donovan has won two titles more recently than Roy has won two titles).
I can't speak for everyone else that's posting "negatively" about Roy, but I just was wondering if this should be cause for concern. I'm not one for firing a HOF coach the first year he doesn't make a Final Four, but there have now been 6 Final Fours in a row that UNC hasn't been a part of. How long should that trend be allowed to continue before changes are made? If that answer is 7, 10, 15 years (or even, as long as Roy wants to keep coaching) that's fine, I'm just looking for a general opinion on how long the fanbase is content with letting it go for.
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You mean like the 8-20 season Doh had?
So 2 seasons or so after Roy brought us his second National Championship in a 5 year span you were beating the drum for his dismissal? I can't say it any better than Bugs Bunny.........
The other part of this is that during 2015-2016 Roy and this UNC team will go again. I simply refuse to acknowledge KY as being a legit amateur program. So, subtract 2008 (vacated) and I will still state that Roy will again get to the Final Four THIS season... Finally, since I do not count Cal, there is no one else for you to boast about. Gotta' love a weak fan-base at times. They relish in negativity while still claiming to love UNC on this board. Whoopie to you 'Ole big .one (fan)..
Roy Williams will be most appreciated after he retires on his terms..his great legacy and love for UNC--I just choose to enjoy Chapel Hill while he's still here with a team that sure as hell, when healthy, can win it all--some jealous bastards are fun to laugh at during this Xmas season--Happy Holidays to the true Tar Heel fans! We'll beat UCLA
It is human nature to not truly appreciate what we have until it's gone. Such was the case with Coach Smith and such is now the case with Coach Williams. We have been blessed with two HOF coaches who have run clean programs, graduated the vast majority of their players, and produced good citizens for the world's benefit. Along the way, they also managed to win four national titles and over 1600 games.
Neither were/are perfect human beings/coaches. But as someone who started rooting for the Heels around 1960, I can unequivocally say that I feel so fortunate to have witnessed them ply their trade with compassion and dignity for 50+ years. They and their charges have given me untold magical moments to live over ànd over again in my memory. I can never thank them enough for that gift.
Unfortunately, college sports has become mostly about money. Like Gary and David said, the pass that leads to the pass which becomes the assist is often overlooked. The subtleties of the game are lost as we simply look at the raw stats, ignoring many of the things which don't show up on the stat sheet.
Now I see the same thing happening with Coach Williams. Many seem to forget how many trips he and the team have made to the children's cancer ward at UNC, his always being there for his players, and his tireless work ethic. Some seem to see winning as the Holy Grail, not allowing themselves to enjoy the journey because of the bumps along the way. That is a shame.
Winning is not everything, çontrary to what Lombardi said. The journey is everything and winning the possible reward for all your hard work. We should strive to give everything in life our best honest effort and enjoy the experience along the way, for life is short.
There are very few current college coaches whose resume matches that of our coach. Going on wins only, Knight LIte is a superior coach. But when you consider character as well, he pales in comparison to Coach Williams. I wouldn't trade our coach for a dozen Caliparis/Knight Lites!
ETA: I apologize for the length of this post, just needed to get this off my chest aftr reading all the negative posts the last couple of years.
Neither were/are perfect human beings/coaches. But as someone who started rooting for the Heels around 1960, I can unequivocally say that I feel so fortunate to have witnessed them ply their trade with compassion and dignity for 50+ years. They and their charges have given me untold magical moments to live over ànd over again in my memory. I can never thank them enough for that gift.
Unfortunately, college sports has become mostly about money. Like Gary and David said, the pass that leads to the pass which becomes the assist is often overlooked. The subtleties of the game are lost as we simply look at the raw stats, ignoring many of the things which don't show up on the stat sheet.
Now I see the same thing happening with Coach Williams. Many seem to forget how many trips he and the team have made to the children's cancer ward at UNC, his always being there for his players, and his tireless work ethic. Some seem to see winning as the Holy Grail, not allowing themselves to enjoy the journey because of the bumps along the way. That is a shame.
Winning is not everything, çontrary to what Lombardi said. The journey is everything and winning the possible reward for all your hard work. We should strive to give everything in life our best honest effort and enjoy the experience along the way, for life is short.
There are very few current college coaches whose resume matches that of our coach. Going on wins only, Knight LIte is a superior coach. But when you consider character as well, he pales in comparison to Coach Williams. I wouldn't trade our coach for a dozen Caliparis/Knight Lites!
ETA: I apologize for the length of this post, just needed to get this off my chest aftr reading all the negative posts the last couple of years.
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I cannot detract from Roy's NC with Doherty's recruits , especially when you take into account Cal failed to win NC's several times with a team of 1st round NBA draft choices when the talking heads were taking them over the rest of the field. I will settle for a few mediocre seasons in return for Roy leaving on his own terms when that time comes. I do reserve the right to bitch over individual games , though it is usually directed at the players and not Roy.
He was like the guy who threw the first punch in a bar room brawl and then slipped out the door.
No, I don't but let's give all the credit to Roy either. That team was ridiculously talented.
This is an argument you won't win. There is a large number of people on here that take any comment that is even remotely negative and they blast you for it. Roy can do no wrong. No player can do anything wrong. To talk about it makes you less of a fan. The reason why I never posted before. It's juvenile. They think that the fact that most teams have their best shooting night of the year against us is just random dumb luck. NO WAY that it's because our team isn't tough and doesn't have the desire to play defense all while Roy sits back and refuses to teach/preach defense or bench people that don't play defense.
I think I am accurate in pointing out that most of our losses, especially our ugly losses, the past few years were on days/nights where the other team is bombing away from the outside. I don't know how many times that has to happen before people take notice and acknowledge that it's the biggest problem with our team. A problem that will prevent this team from doing much in March. It would be ok if teams bombed away on us if we could answer, but we can't because we don't seem to recruit shooters. A lot of people on this board chalk it up to "the other team gets up to play us". Well, we are UNC. We should be up every damn time we take the court. Our players should be drooling at the opportunity to prove they are one of the best teams, and individually, some of the best players in the country.
The game has changed and the players have changed. Go watch a high school team warmup. What do they do? Almost all of them practice their 3 pointers. That's all kids do and all they want to do anymore. There are a lot of great shooters out there. Shooters that play against us, but don't seem to play FOR us. Until we figure something out on defense, my expectations are low.
Ok, even if you take away the 2008, he's still been to 4, as has Izzo, and if you read my other post there are others that are tied at 3 with Roy. Not trying to bash Roy, just trying to show that you post without paying attention to the facts, which is what you accuse others of doing.
I hope Roy leads this squad to another FF and NC this year. I'll be rooting like hell for it to happen. I just wont blindly ignore the obvious while I watch.
Replace Dook with Michigan St!
Who is saying Roy can do no wrong? in fact, I've seen a lot of posts on this thread regarding Roy being stubborn, but you are just taking it to another level. You are giving him 0 credit for anything he has accomplished because he coached at Kansas and UNC? 05 teams was loaded, ooops Roy got lucky.09 team was loaded, ooops Roy got lucky. I mean damn, there is blind supporting and blind hating. You fall under the blind hating category. I am glad your expectations are low. I hope it remains that way.
Completely agree. I'm assuming the reason for that is that a beat down of a completely outmatched Tulane team that we're 26 point favorites over isnt as memorable as a top tier matchup against equal competition like dook or Wisconsin. I think most fans like to compare UNC to the dooks, NDs, Wisconsins of the world - and when UNC falters against that competition it sticks in the memory longer than a blowout of the Woffords of the world.
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