Is Roy Beamering?
- Thread starter WoadBlue
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It's like saying Knight LIte has won all his games because he inherited a program that had already won a thousand games before he stepped foot on campus, WON a thousand. And a Bill Foster led team lost to UK in the finals a couple of years prior to his arrival. So other than his short, obligatory stint at the Academy, he's spent his entire career at a basketball factory. Still doesn't diminish his accomplishments, only his personality can do that.
Àlways enjoy your perspective on things sk1310.
Not implying that he got lucky. He's damn good and we are lucky to have him, but times are changing and I fear he is not and his style is not a winning formula anymore.
I heard this exact same stuff from around 1984/85 right up until Dean won it all again in 1993. Same old stuff, different decades.
FWIW, that '93 NCAA Championship team lost to 2 unranked (at time of loss) teams and in the old school NCAA wouldn't even have made the NCAA Tourney because they failed to win the ACC Tournament Championship game.
The bottom line seen here is that you dislike and/or despise our Coach. I actually do remember Izzo getting to three Final Four's and Roy Williams beating him like a drum in 2009. This was in his own (Izzo) backyard as well. Regardless, your main point was that Roy is a has been Coach. You are indeed Dead Wrong about that issue. UNC Basketball is in the finest of hands!
Pure fact is this: Most years we will NOT win the NCAA Tournament Championship and we will lose some games we "shouldn't lose". Some folks here seem to find those truths unacceptable.
If you are going to live or die by the standards of never losing a game or games we "shouldn't" lose, you are going to be unhappy much of the time.
If you are going to live or die by the standards of never losing a game or games we "shouldn't" lose, you are going to be unhappy much of the time.
I love Roy Williams. When he came back home to Carolina he was hungry for a title. He would play anybody, anywhere at anytime if they could put up points and win the game.
Its not so much these days. These days its all about a system. The two PG system.
I don't think coach Smith would have sat 6'6" Pinson at SG to put a second PG on the floor. And even after 3 games of Pinson's minutes being cut in half and moved off of SG, he still leads the team in assists. And has far better rebound numbers, % wise of any of the 1's and 2's.
And Hicks is sitting over there on the bench. Dude is about to go Donkey Kong. He gets to the line at a rate 4 times any other big man. But still can't get 20 minutes, even with Meeks out.
So some of these things being said about Roy are legit. They're not knocks on his ability to coach, more of a why don't you use what you have question.
Its not so much these days. These days its all about a system. The two PG system.
I don't think coach Smith would have sat 6'6" Pinson at SG to put a second PG on the floor. And even after 3 games of Pinson's minutes being cut in half and moved off of SG, he still leads the team in assists. And has far better rebound numbers, % wise of any of the 1's and 2's.
And Hicks is sitting over there on the bench. Dude is about to go Donkey Kong. He gets to the line at a rate 4 times any other big man. But still can't get 20 minutes, even with Meeks out.
So some of these things being said about Roy are legit. They're not knocks on his ability to coach, more of a why don't you use what you have question.
Why the hell do folks here insist on claiming critics hate our Coach/Players/Team? Can you quote one post that actually states something of the sort? Nevermind the fact that you even attempt to tell him what his point is, even though he said himself that He's "not suggesting Roy should step down or be fired." While you on the other hand, post an incorrect fact and then try to go on defense by questioning others' fandom/support strength.
I swear, some of you have the deepest Tar Heel Blue shades that money can buy.
It doesn't take this much to be able to take a deep, unbiased look at where our program is and discuss.
Hi RoseHeel, I wear my TAR HEEL BLUE shades because they make me feel good.Why the hell do folks here insist on claiming critics hate our Coach/Players/Team? Can you quote one post that actually states something of the sort? Nevermind the fact that you even attempt to tell him what his point is, even though he said himself that He's "not suggesting Roy should step down or be fired." While you on the other hand, post an incorrect fact and then try to go on defense by questioning others' fandom/support strength.
I swear, some of you have the deepest Tar Heel Blue shades that money can buy.
!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE MY UNC TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you basing that on? Only 2 players from that team had more than a cup of coffee in the league and of those 2 (Felton and Marv) neither has come close to All-Star level. So was that team that talented or was it just the whole being better than the sum of its parts? If it's the latter, which is what I believe, then the good majority of the credit goes to Roy for crafting a style and game plan that allowed those guys to succeed at the highest level.
Roy's the perfect fit for UNC and that's the most important thing in college sports. He's earned the right to call his own shot, but the program needs to make sure the next guy is the right fit.
I have pure X's and O's questions about Roy... I don't think his philosophy meshes with today's basketball and I do believe we are behind where the game is today. And it often shows in games. But who's a better option right now? Unless Brad Stevens leaves the Celtics, I'd probably want Roy at UNC right now.
Lets face it... A lot of the criticism is because K just won a title and Duke seems to be rolling and is once again, the most nationally relevant program in the country. Something UNC was from 2005-2011, but an argument can be made, UNC is not really nationally relevant. It's relevant to college basketball, but the average fan of sports is probably going to watch a Duke or Kentucky game over a UNC game right now.
The hard part to accept is the program has probably peaked under Roy and that peak was 2009. So we're coming up on 7 years of mediocrity to the standards Roy set.
I think the Beamer comparisons are unfair though.
Phillip Fulmer may be a more accurate one. But Roy is still winning. Not winning huge, but winning enough to hold UNC at least in the college basketball picture.
But he's earned the right to choose his future. Again though, the program better have an idea where they're going after Roy and they better be right. I'm not expecting final fours for the next few seasons... So the transition MUST be smooth.
I have pure X's and O's questions about Roy... I don't think his philosophy meshes with today's basketball and I do believe we are behind where the game is today. And it often shows in games. But who's a better option right now? Unless Brad Stevens leaves the Celtics, I'd probably want Roy at UNC right now.
Lets face it... A lot of the criticism is because K just won a title and Duke seems to be rolling and is once again, the most nationally relevant program in the country. Something UNC was from 2005-2011, but an argument can be made, UNC is not really nationally relevant. It's relevant to college basketball, but the average fan of sports is probably going to watch a Duke or Kentucky game over a UNC game right now.
The hard part to accept is the program has probably peaked under Roy and that peak was 2009. So we're coming up on 7 years of mediocrity to the standards Roy set.
I think the Beamer comparisons are unfair though.
Phillip Fulmer may be a more accurate one. But Roy is still winning. Not winning huge, but winning enough to hold UNC at least in the college basketball picture.
But he's earned the right to choose his future. Again though, the program better have an idea where they're going after Roy and they better be right. I'm not expecting final fours for the next few seasons... So the transition MUST be smooth.
.I kind of prefer to see the AFAM BS finally get settled before I concede that Roy will have 7 mediocre years. I just feel he has 1 NC left in him. If we have 1 NC and 6 mediocre years , then I can't say I will be unhappy especially when our mediocre is pretty darn good.
Kinda tired of this thread and the usual post-loss garbage that goes on here.
Yeah, good to talk tactics etc and fine to criticise and discuss, but the sweeping statements and generalisations are ridiculous.
7 lean years, yep, and lets have a look at just some of the factors involved in those 7 years:
Yeah, the Heels aren't flavour of the month with the young crowd right now, and maybe they won't be for a while, so Roy has to recruit the players he can get and do the best he can with them. Losses will happen and wins will be had.
It's also fine to be critical of Roy, I think he screwed the pooch a couple of times last season, but saying he's past it and needs to be replaced is utter BS.
Yeah, good to talk tactics etc and fine to criticise and discuss, but the sweeping statements and generalisations are ridiculous.
7 lean years, yep, and lets have a look at just some of the factors involved in those 7 years:
- 3 spoilt crybabies from California bailed on the program leaving a recruiting hole
- At least one of those crybabies (or their mother) kept on crying and down-talking the program.
- Cretin
- PJ, cars, dope
- Rashad
- AFAM
Yeah, the Heels aren't flavour of the month with the young crowd right now, and maybe they won't be for a while, so Roy has to recruit the players he can get and do the best he can with them. Losses will happen and wins will be had.
It's also fine to be critical of Roy, I think he screwed the pooch a couple of times last season, but saying he's past it and needs to be replaced is utter BS.
I hope you're right. Right now, the biggest problem with the program (investigation aside) is we have 0 NBA brand right now. Our best NBA representative is Harrison Barnes. Good player, but no one is buying his jersey. And we're recruiting players that weren't alive when Jordan won his last NBA ring, so I think the Jordan Brand is becoming quickly irrelevant.
Duke has it... Kentucky has it... We need to get it back.
We haven't lost it,parity is showing it's ugly head.I'll take experience over 1 and dones 24/7.both the 05 and 09 teams had NO major superstars.Experience and buyng into what roy was selling bottom line.If one and dones are so great UK and Dook should be dominating NCAA titles like the old UCLA Bruins.
I am concerned that dook will figure out the correct formula one on and dones to make multiple titles over a span of 2-5 years. One and dones has changed the landscape of recruiting. Good for other programs, but bad for us. Whatever excuse one wants to give, we are behind on recruiting. If the scandal is put to rest, and we still falter in recruiting, then will we the fans tolerate it? Growing up and watching us compete in the top tier EVERY year has spoiled me. I still want it done right. I am willing to give Roy slack because of the backlash from the scandal. I trust he has a plan to get us on top again. But only time will tell.
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This is spot on. I don't know of a single team that doesn't lose games they're "supposed" to win. UK lost one to OSU yesterday, as did dook to Utah. In fact four top ten teams lost games they were "supposed" to win. It simply happens every week of the season.
Failing to grasp this fact is why some of our fans are miserable after every loss. We've been spoiled by almost six decades of basketball excellence and some have come to feeled entitled to it just magically happening every single year, irrespective of extenuating circumstances. That feeling of entitlement is becoming pervasive in our society as a whole.
Hi Archer. My friend I like the way you post. You show a great SPIRIT
!!!!!!!!!!!! GO MY TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!
Meanwhile The Hoos have dropped 2 in a row. I guess the game has passed old Bennett by. Unless UVA acts fast he will pull them down with him on his fall.
Woad, Hark and upper plains haven't posted since the 8 game win streak. Shocking. Roy can coach. The dismantling of the 2-3 zone in the last 6 minutes was a thing of beauty. When players buy in, you see how dangerous this team can be.
We hit something like 12 of our last 13 shots. VERY impressive! You can't close much better than that!
Knew I should have locked this stupid thread. Just Woad showing his hate for our Basketball Program.
Not at all Mike, its good we could revisit it now. Unfortunately for some, it means a loss of credibility on this board. For the rest of us, we see how early season losses aren't too much to get worked up about (that and idiotic DSPN articles which were only written to generate clicks)
Let me add the Henson freshman season where we set a brand new NCAA record for games missed by players, to even make the nit with a team so hit by injury was an amazing coaching job and maybe the coaching job of his career. I ask any of you that feel the need to down play Roy, what other coach in this country has had to navigate such difficult waters as Roy has had to in these last several years since our last natty? Look at last season, our deep roster of guards were hit with so much injury and sickness that we couldn't hold real practices for a month. K didn't have to deal with that problem, Kal and that mega talented team did not have to deal with that problem but we sure did.
Now those of you that read here know, I am no Roy apologist, I disagree with Roy all the time, there are absolutely things I wish Roy would do differently and have said so here many times. But I ALWAYS end my critique of Roy the same way, " there is no other coach in the country I want leading this program other than Roy or Phil Ford". You can keep K, Kal, Self, Izzo, keep all the rest of em because IMHO NO coach has had to handle the problems that Roy has had to manage his way thru and no coach would have done so with the grace and passion Roy has shown us. Call me wearing blinders if you will, put what ever tag on me you feel you have to but I am happy and proud to have Roy as our coach and will remian that way until he decides to hang them up, that is when I will worry!
I had to do A "discount double check" on the date of the original post on this thread, as first I wondered why anyone would suggest such a thing right after we just won 2 huge ACC road games, starting off ACC play with 4 wins, with Jay Bilas no less telling everyone he thinks UNC is the team to beat for the natty this season. Yeah< Unc, yeah, that team lead by Roy Williams, yeah, that fella that in the opening post was said the game has passed him by ? you have to love the irony of that...
you have to as well love the irony in the opening posts statement that UNC does not develope players any more? Have you been watching a fella named Brice, how about a fella named Issiah, maybe a guy or 2 named Joel, there is this tuff lil nut named Marcus that you may have seen? Joel James may well have the lowest basketball IQ I have ever seen get Pt at UNC, love the kid but lets call it like it is. Don't look now but even BIG Joel is being productive, don't tell me Roy and his staff do not develope players, not if you expect me to take you seriously.
No, Roy has not brought in talent levels like K, Kal, self have, Roy has cobbled together hard to beat teams out of what he had and that came with road blocks at every corner, some LIKE THE NCaa stuff remain to hinder us. yet here we are, yet again the team to beat for everyone we play, the team to beat for the final nets, even without multiple fUTURe NBA all stars? PLaying his system that many now seem to feel is out dated, explain that to me, how a coach that has the game pass him by, a program hit by NCAA investigation, a coach who can no longer bring in the very best talents available, a coach that is not able to develope even the talent he gets, that plays in the strongest basketball conference in the country year in an year out, and all the other issues that would crumble any other coach or program, how is it that we are the team in the country to beat TODAY?
That my friends is a simple question, it is not complicated, I am gonna hang up now and wait for those folk that feel it is time for Roy to step away to answer it.
Well said D. I love revisiting doom and gloom threads like these and hearing crickets from the harshest critics. Music to my soul...
I think the biggest mistake fans make is to jump. We lose a recruit and we jump. We lose a game we should win and we jump. We don't win by enough against other teams and we jump. I'll take what the Heels and Roy are doing over any team/coach out there. 99% of programs would love to have Roy as their coach. I don't wear the "blue glasses". I am a strong fan but just stating the truth here. He isn't perfect but who is and who else could do what he has done during the time of OAD and the investigation.
I've been posting throughout the streak so not sure what you're going for there. And yes, Roy has done a great job recently... making the adjustments that I was begging for earlier in the thread! I get ripped on for suggesting there may be some things that we could do better... and then when we do those things better, get ripped on again for suggesting them?
Tmatheny is spot on about many fans' tendency to overreact to wins/losses, both positively and negatively. Very common with all fanbases.
I'm a huge Roy fan but there are a few things I'd love to see him do differently. For instance, nobody is happier than me to see him mix up our defense and throw in some zone or trap occasionally.
I find wording to be the determining factor as to whether there is blow back, not the actual questioning of Roy itself.
I'm a huge Roy fan but there are a few things I'd love to see him do differently. For instance, nobody is happier than me to see him mix up our defense and throw in some zone or trap occasionally.
I find wording to be the determining factor as to whether there is blow back, not the actual questioning of Roy itself.
Questioning and suggesting changes are not improper In the least; no one should blindly follow anything! Calling our coach out of touch or implying he doesn't make adjustments in every game for the last 13 years is either uninformed or trollish! The original premise is IDIOTIC!
It's like picking a sore spot; the pain suffered by the morons who piled on in this thread is delicious! Hark! I hear the Sound of backtracking!
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