TarHeelIllustrated - Jalen Washington's Season
There are two ways to describe Jalen Washington’s sophomore season at North Carolina.One, he was highly efficient on
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Jalen Washington's Season
- Thread starter andrew jones
- Start date
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I'm no BB guru, but I love the game and sometimes I read between the lines pretty well. It seems to me that Washington has been somewhat disrespected by the posters here, but I saw it differently. I saw great potential, and with some decent coaching and more playing time to build consistency, I'll be surprised if we aren't starting to sing hallelujah
by well into next season.
by well into next season.
blue, everyone else may start the singing, I have been all season hitting that note!
If he splits time with a true defensive Force then it might work out .I like him as a 20 minute a game guy with his offense but you know the end result with Physical Centers and him ..
While I do agree with you on the mins and maybe a few more, nobody knows the end result with him against physical centers….next year. I have to continuously remind myself that there is major growth mentally and physically with players at all levels from year to year. Time will tell.
sometimes training doesn't sink in and ability doesn't happen so much while the action is intense and constant. A more casual off-season allows things to sink in and deficiencies to be worked on. Along with Washington's improvement, I also hope to see much better three point shooting from Cadeau, for example.
But maybe I'm just a dreamer.
I believe if RJ and Ingram return along with a good center that we could be much better this coming season. EC will improve. Also need a good vet 3 guy.
Looks like Ingrams gone and I have been a big fan of Wash from jump street but I kind like him more as a 4 and think he would compliment a beefy inside 5 really well. jmo
OMG, do I have a convert? LOL
Al, I know you have seen what I have said all freakin season, everyone insists Jalen is only a 5 and I have screamed he would be a monster stretch 4, what 4 man can even hinder his jumper, much less block it? Would he have a challenge defending 4s, for sure he would, definite area that needs to improve but we sure didn't hesitate to play RJ or Cadeau when they struggled to defend their position did we? What I have been saying that many times got ridiculed is that I would have Jalen getting minutes at the 4 and the 5, I find some way to get him 16-22mins a game and adjust his minutes either UP OR DOWN from that.
Someone please remind me of the last time UNC had a 6'11" guy with a 7'5" wing span that shot over 53% (with enough SAMPLE SIZE to make it legit) from trey for the season? How long have we dreamed about having a guy like that? We get one and some folks want to write him off? Makes no sense to me...
Washington trying to guard the modern stretch 4 would be an absolute nightmare. You might as well just give the opposing team points every single time they are on offense.
Convert huh ?? LMAO !! You and anyone else that's reads what few post I make know I have been a Wash fan from day 1 and I have been a fan of of him at the 4 spot .. never as a stretch 5 or pure 5 at all because he simply does not have the body strength to bang inside on offense(yet) but that 7'+ wing span will surely get an offensive players attention around the rim as well as the perimeter. Not sure how Ingram's departure will affect Wash but if it gets him a few more minutes then that's fine by me and I'd like that 20 minutes of pt to be the floor. And I totally agree against some, or most, teams he could easily play the 5 and do really well on both O&D but his future in the league will be as a 4. jmo
I think I have argued so much for Jalen that it did often feel like it was just me on this island. Maybe that you don't post a lot but finally it seems others are beginning to warm up to what I have been screaming! LOL I think Jalen fits the 4 better than the 5 and I felt Ingram fit us better at the 3 than the 4, still can not understand why we went smaller than we had to. And don't even get me started about that switch all 5 nonsense, absolutely hated that!
Jalen Washington attempted 15 3s all season. I’m not sure how that’s enough to make any declarations on his 3PT shooting one way or another. Unless sample size was said in jest.
His offense probably won’t be any limiting factor for his PT next year anyways. It will be about his defense. Number 1 will be staying out of foul trouble. It will destroy anyone’s imagination of what Washington can be if he commits 8.1 fouls/40 minutes in ACC play like he did this year. It’s probably why most people are focusing on the defensive end of the floor. It’s the thing that may literally keep him off the floor.
Also, UNC has had big guys who can shoot. They may not have been as tall as Washington but Jawad Williams, Luke Maye, Brady Manek all carried plenty of shot credibility during major parts of their UNC careers. And all of them shot over 100 3s in a season at UNC. Even Tyler Hansbrough developed into a borderline elite mid range jump shooter. And that was always in Tyler Zeller’s arsenal too.
Jalen isn’t this unique unicorn prospect that UNC has never seen just because he’s a couple of inches taller than previous UNC bigs.
Really, do we really have to have this dance again? LOL Did you know that some people are actually able to watch a kid and evaluate their shooting stroke, did you realize that? Excuse me but when did Jawad/Luke/Manek grow to 6'11", I sure wish they had that growth spurt before they left UNC. Remind me again when they were measured with a 7'5" reach, you know that John Henson like reach? I suspect you realize what I am saying and I suspect you already know that trying to use those 3 fellas was a reach on your part simply to argue. Say that shooting stroke was in Zeller's arsenal as well, Oh, cool, and how many treys did he take and how many did he make while playing for us? What season was it that Hansbourgh shot 15 treys?
Yeah, I think we can dismiss that nonsense of his offense being a problem. Defense has to be an area he has to improve in, I have very consistently said that but I have as well explained the kid has been behind due to his injury past, that I consider this past season top be basically his frosh season but even if YOU don't, even YOU would have to admit how much better he played this past season than the one before.
Jalen is actually very much a unicorn for UNC but feel free to try to find another 6'11" kid with a 7'5" reach that jump shot all the way out to the trey with the stoke Jalen showed off. Let me know when you get to Sam Perkins OK? LOL
There’s nothing unicorn about a 6’11” catch and shoot big. Shooting is no longer a unique skill for a big man.
My point on Zeller and Hansbrough werent about 3s. My point was they were stretch big options later in their careers. Tyler Hansbrough went 9-23 (39%) from 3 as a senior and I don’t think anyone says he had legit 3PT range. Granted Hansbrough played significantly more so if Washington played 30 MPG, I’m sure we would’ve gotten more sample.
Washington isn’t a unicorn though. He has no individual skill that’s unique for a big man. Typically bigs that are unicorns can handle the ball like guards/wings (Giannis, Wemby, Porzingis). The last time a stretch big was a unicorn just on his shooting was like Dirk Nowitzki.
Without hijacking the thread I'll just agree with you and say I think there were opportunities to go with a bigger (and different) line up against certain teams .. and that may have included Wash and Wit .. maybe even Ingram on the floor together for short stretches which might have left some of the legacy seniors+ on the bench. Ingram will be missed no doubt but I'm not sure leaving this year. after this season, will serve him well. We shall see. jmo
Jalen Washington will do very well for UNC after a summer in the gym.🏀
First, I COMPLETELY DISSAGREE THAT A 6'11" GUY WITH A 7'5' REACH IS COMMON PLACE IN THE COLLEGE GAME! You find a guy like that they don't typically stay in college for more than a 1&D season, that is the most coveted type player in the eyes of NBA scouts.
Hansbourgh, You said, in the post I replied to, YOUR FREAKIN WORDS DUDE that Hansbourgh was a 3pt shooting threat, along with Jawad and Luke. Now you back track on your own words on the very same thread? Now what was I speaking to, very clearly I was speaking about his jump shooting and now all the sudden you want to talk about ball handling, have I ever once indicated that Jalen is the next Lebron, NO, I was talking about his jump shooting ability?
Is there some part of "in the college game" that you do not understand? There must be because you give me current and former NBA players to refute my considering a 53% 3pt jump shooting 6'11" guy with extra length to be a unicorn for the college game. Unless you just watched your very first basketball game ever you should know that 6'11" really long big men are not common to have such a sweet shooting stroke as Jalen has shown, it is either ignorance or the need to spread a miss-truth that would have anyone say such a thing, in your case it is beginning to look very much like the later...
Just to remind you of YOUR words and I quote "Washington isn't a unicorn though. He has no individual skill that is unique for a big man"...
I'm beginning to think Nathan Fielder is one of the fist chat gpt AI posters/spammers/trolls on here cause all he keeps spouting of are stat's and bs that at times make absolutely no sense and that crap about "There’s nothing unicorn about a 6’11” catch and shoot big. Shooting is no longer a unique skill for a big man." is one of the dumbest comment's I've ever heard on this board. So 6'11 guys with a 7'5 wing span are common as hens teeth huh. Surprised we didn't have 2 or 3 on the roster last season.
So how many 6'11 / 7'5 wingspan catch and shoot guys that had something over a 30% 3pt game are currently in the NCAA Nathan ?
Yeah al, it isn't just that Jalen made the % he made, it is his shooting stroke that drops my jaws! In no way comparing 2players other than shooting stroke but watch Jalen's shooting stroke and it looks Durant like to me. I swear it looks like every jump shot from him is center of the basket and it is a real jump shot that has a high release, who blocks that, who even hinders it in the college game? It isn't even that so many went in, it is knowing with that kind of stroke we have only seen a glimpse of what I think can happen for him, I really want to see more!
I never said Hansbrough was a 3PT threat. I said Hansbrough and Zeller developed into borderline elite mid range jump shooters. Never once said they were 3PT threats.
Also, UNC has had big guys who can shoot. They may not have been as tall as Washington but Jawad Williams, Luke Maye, Brady Manek all carried plenty of shot credibility during major parts of their UNC careers. And all of them shot over 100 3s in a season at UNC. Even Tyler Hansbrough developed into a borderline elite mid range jump shooter. And that was always in Tyler Zeller’s arsenal too.
So it has to be current and that exact listed height and wingspan? If I go into CBB history:
- Kevin Pittsnogle was 6'11" and made 41% of his career 3s
- Kevin Love was 6'10" and made 36% from 3
- Karl Anthony Towns is 7'0" and clearly could shoot 3s in college but didn't. He shot 34% from 3 as an NBA rookie.
Currently? I don't know but I could list 3 comparable height players who could shoot from 3. Don't know if their wingspan qualifies though! Also, don't know if this counts to your unicorn definition... But unless you've actually seen a unicorn before, doesn't the fact that previous players have had similar skill sets nullify the uniqueness of a unicorn?
Yet again I remind you, I ask about COLLEGE PLAYERS, I can give a fine list of current and former NBA players. The very fact that you are struggling to answer this should tell you my point is made?
Now list all the college players who had their knee ruined by an incompetent surgeon, forcing them to have a second surgery, robbing them of the lateral mobility and quickness that made them a 5-star recruit, making them completely change their game and position.
Bet that's a pretty short list too.
Bet that's a pretty short list too.
Good point and to me, that’s why it’s hard to write him off and say he can’t or won’t or doesn’t. It definitely seems likely to make those assumptions but it’s hard, knowing what he could do? I’m pulling for him for sure.
Pittsnogle and Love's stats were from COLLEGE. When they were COLLEGE PLAYERS. When they were COLLEGE PLAYERS, they were 6'11 and 6'10 and shot well from 3.
And Love was a big fattie.
Not pertinent to the conversation, but his dad was a giant douche when Roy recruited Kevin. So I'm just going to point out how fat he got bc it amuses me.
🤣 OMG, and they grew in to having a 7'5" reach when? Come on man, is it that hard to admit that Jalen's jump shot at his length is very unique for the college game? You say it as if guys like that are all over college basketball and yet you have to go way back in the past or use NBA players to make your case? Do you not understand, this is your what, 3rd attempt to prove me wrong on this question and every time you try you make my case even more solid? The very fact that you are struggling so hard to come up with examples should tell you that Jalen actually is unique? What part of that is hard?
We'll simply disagree that Jalen Washington is a unicorn then. My argument is we've seen Jalen Washington-type players throughout the history of college basketball post-2000. If you and @al would think his 7'5" reach makes him a more unique player, then cool. I certainly hope he plays like a unique player this coming season. I just feel like I've seen players like him before.
Very fair, I am fine with that, to end up that we disagree is not a problem. I in no way demand anyone to agree with me but when someone says I am wrong then I* am going to argue my case as hard as I can. If someone is going to say I am wrong then they have to be ready to prove it and if they actually do and that has happened to me on this board, I am not above saying I was wrong. But most of the time things end up in an agree to disagree on that topic and we virtually hand shake and move on to the next topic no harm no foul. I would like to hope that is now what we can do on this topic. I* would like nothing more than for you and I to move away from talking at each other to talking with each other.
I guess Meeks would go into that category too, but he got us a banner, and himself a ring. Interesting to hear your inside knowledge of that recruiting situation, one of the perks of your posts. Meeks was a poor man's Kevin Love, he could rebound his ass off & outlet pass with the best of them. Love shot it better from the outside, but their skillets were the same besides that. Not sure how much Love worked to reduce his weight but I know Meeks did, glad it paid off.
Damn Dave. I'm actually getting some entertainment value out of you trying to get someone that obviously made an off the wall statement to prove a completely insane position. Pretty funny tbh. I'll give nathan some props though .. as a troll he's pretty good at it and way above his frosh posting status. And TBH I've made some late night post every now and then where I went a bit to far out on the limb too. It's all good though. This is a great diversion from real life. Carry on guys .. GO HEELS !!
Yeah, those late night kinda wish I hadn't said that posts, made way to many myself! LOL
Dsouthr. you know I am on the Jalen bandwagon. just don't post often. Trimble too as far as that goes. Love that he is back. Really enjoy watching progression of players throughout their college career. Just wish Hubert would find more time to help with that progression. I think that is his biggest blind spot. Also think it will get better or he will start struggling to recruit nonstarters to sit in the bench and not get any minutes to improve.
I think it would benefit him to play deeper into his bench earlier in the season and try different combinations. Also being more consistent with minutes. I don't like when he gives the spiel, I don't know when you will get your chance. Doesn't seem like he rewards good play with more time into the next game. Granted, I am on the outside looking in but he is under pressure to win big as a new coach but he rides his starters to the detriment of developing players to be their best at the end of the year.
I can't stand how often we just have to say how bad Hubs' decisions were! I'm sorry but were we asleep for the last 10 years??? Hubs has UNC back where it is supposed to be and coached us to an ACC champ season and a #1 seed. (puke sweep, Sweet 16, etc) He has us on the lips of every elite player in HS and in the portal again! When it was suggested he might play 10 peeps there was wailing and tearing out of hair. When he contracted the bench there was wailing and screeching. The boys on the bench were told exactly how to get PT and instead of doing that, they whined and ran! The ones who stayed got better and will continue to improve! Now we are expecting peeps who haven't even graduated from HS to be misused and left to rot on the bench because.....oh yeah there is no reason! It really is too bad that we don't get a say in in-game coaching because then UNC would finally succeed!
BTW: I am starting to get a strange yet somewhat familiar vibe from Mr. Nathan Fielder! I have a very long memory and the style strikes a cord! I'll wait a bit to see if I'm totally off base!
BTW: I am starting to get a strange yet somewhat familiar vibe from Mr. Nathan Fielder! I have a very long memory and the style strikes a cord! I'll wait a bit to see if I'm totally off base!
Seth Trimble played 17 MPG up to the 16th game of the season. Paxson Wojcik played 17 MPG the first six games of the season before Cadeau was given the starting PG position and played starting minutes. Withers averaged 14 MPG the first 19 games and that included games where he played 4 and 7 minutes so the numbers skewed lower than what he typically played.
To put that into context, Ed Davis played 18.8 MPG his freshman season and Davis was a substantially better player. Tony Bradley played 14.6 MPG as a freshman and was a substantially better player.
Hubert played the bench a lot at the beginning of the season. He cut the rotation as the season progressed, like almost every coach does. As much as people think Roy played his bench, he shut off the water in the tournament too. If you think that Seth, Wojcik, Washington, and Withers were good enough to play in more high-leverage situations later in the season, then that's a different argument. But Hubert absolutely played his bench a fair amount in the beginning of the season.
This is pretty common too. Purdue didn't play Edey a ton in the non-conference. Then in close games in the tournament, he played 39 minutes against Tennessee.
It's really hard to compare what Hubert's had off the bench at UNC to what Roy had. Hubert's best 6th man has been who? Let's say Seth Trimble? Roy had lottery and 1st round players coming off the bench. You better play 1st round dudes if they're on the bench, lol.
First montana, always enjoy talking with you!
There was a way things were done pre-portal and pre-NIL, when you didn't have to worry so much about retaining the players you recruited in from high school, when they fell in line and waited their turn, afraid those days are now gone. Now you have to get creative with how you get minutes for those guys. I would offer 2 things:
1) I think it is extremely important to put players in positions to feature their strengths rather than positions that play to weaker aspects of their game. Meaning, don't have a player in a position to have to shoot treys if that player does not believe he can make them. Don't have Jalen out trying to guard a ball handling wing 30' from the basket, explain when it is time for a cold shooter to stop taking hard shots. Realize the little things like Ryan was not a great jump shooter flying off a pick, especially if he has not seen the ball go in but when he got his feet set he was a dangerous sniper, realize that Ingram needed an extra second to get his jump shot off. As opposed to trying to for example turn Jalen in to bacot, Cadeau in to RJ or RJ in to Cadeau.
2) Play the way that got you here, don't change things you did all season that gets you to the post season. Why shorten your rotation for post season when playing a deep bench got you to the post season? You have to get away from using guys 36+ minutes on average, your bench guys need minutes and there is no need to wear out your starters during the season. Notice, bacot did not finish this season on crutches, he did the last 2, the difference, his minutes came down. The Iron 5 deal may work for a game but it kills you when your bench all transfer after the season, play both the short and the long game.
3) For good measure a 3rd, it is about playing hard, playing smart, and playing together (and yes hitting your free throws Roy
and if a player is not doing that PULL HIM and put in a player that will. If you use a deep bench there is no excuse for a player not playing flat out as hard as he can, hair on fire. No matter who that player may be, same rule for starters all the way down to walk ons. UNC should out work every team it plays with a bench that can give you a 10 man rotation of really talented players, use them! If I pull you once for not playing hard in this game I will go back to you but if I have to pull you a second time in that game for the same thing, you are done for this game and we are going to have a talk on the plane back home and expectations will be set and agreed on, I think that more important than what your favorite cookie is.Yes, many times Roy did play a shorter bench, Dean did as well and they won nattys doing so. Hubert went Iron 5 with basically Roy's core players + Manek and had we done basically anything in that second half Hubert would have won a natty as a rookie head coach. But Dean NEVER had to deal with and Roy got out before this wide open portal and NIL stuff really dramatically changed the game. Hubert goes Iron 5 to get to the natty game and look how many players entered the portal after? You have to make solid recruiting decisions for kids first coming to the college game and if you make good decisions you have players that can help you, you have to work to retain and develop those guys, Dean nor Roy had to work to retain players they recruited like has to be done now. We can fondly recall the past but things have changed, things have radically changed.
Purdue had a great season, they had Edny, no one else had a Edny but the problem is Edny is now gone and Gillis is now a dukie, so what now happens with that Purdue team with out Edny or Gillis? Trust me, I know there are a bunch of Edny type guys in the NBA, we are talking college still.
