Jay Williams on Heels recruiting

[keysersosay#1]

makes some valid points..... I have never thought this guy was the sharpest knife in the drawer though
Take it for what it is worth. .he is a dookie after all


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article133802979.html

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I love Jay Williams. ESPN has it going on right now with their college basketball coverage. Bilas, Williams, Greenberg, and Ravech are an awesome combo, with Rece Davis doing Gameday.

 

[gary-7]

makes some valid points..... I have never thought this guy was the sharpest knife in the drawer though
Take it for what it is worth. .he is a dookie after all


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article133802979.html

Nothing new or controversial there. Roy is a great honest recruiter, but when you get to the used car salesmen like calipari they fit right into the instant-gratification mentality he's talking about, and sadly that's the OAD mentality (and sadly some Carolina fans have that same mentality --- they want what's shiny and new).

I respect the fact he mentioned USA Basketball. Anyone who denies the unfair advantage that has given K is delusional.

 

[jah420]

Totally agree that it would help if we can get some young stars in the NBA again!

 

[heelmanwilm]

Accurate

 

[ohio tarheels]

Luke Kannard was a top 5 recruit??

 

[gary-7]

Luke Kannard was a top 5 recruit??

No. Top 50. He was just mentioning we offered him and didn't get him, although I don't remember us being a serious player there. IIRC it was between dook and Ohio State.

 

[ohio tarheels]

Ok... Just the way he was included with Tatum and Giles in paragraph mentioning top 5 and 10 recruits made me wonder if I had missed something

 

[Archer2]

There are kids who want to play for Cal and the LOM and then there are kids who want to play for Roy. They are horses of a different color. Get used to it. I have.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

"Roy Williams has said several times that some of that difficulty is because of the long NCAA investigation of academic misconduct at UNC, which is still percolating and has inspired negative recruiting.
"
THIS is one big issue that would really help us, need the NCAA GONE!

 

[keysersosay#1]

it has really damaged our recruiting over the last 5 years

 

[kevindow]

"Roy Williams has said several times that some of that difficulty is because of the long NCAA investigation of academic misconduct at UNC, which is still percolating and has inspired negative recruiting.
"
THIS is one big issue that would really help us, need the NCAA GONE!

With all due respect, I am not buying this theory. UofL has allegations of strippers and prostitution but they have four 4* commits in 2017 and two 4* commits in 2018. My theory: Roy and his pitch don't resonate with the top recruits. If I am the father of a top recruit, why should I send him to UNC ? Right now, I would send him to UK or Duke on the eastern half of the country, and maybe UCLA or Arizona on the western half of the country. And I am a hard core UNC fan. Maybe Roy should use high profile UNC grads who played in the NBA to help with the recruiting process. I don't have a silver bullet, but whatever we are doing is clearly not working with the top recruits. Even if the NCAA mess is cleared up, I am not convinced that we will attract top talent to UNC.

Kevin

 

[superstar57]

With all due respect, I am not buying this theory. UofL has allegations of strippers and prostitution but they have four 4* commits in 2017 and two 4* commits in 2018. My theory: Roy and his pitch don't resonate with the top recruits. If I am the father of a top recruit, why should I send him to UNC ? Right now, I would send him to UK or Duke on the eastern half of the country, and maybe UCLA or Arizona on the western half of the country. And I am a hard core UNC fan. Maybe Roy should use high profile UNC grads who played in the NBA to help with the recruiting process. I don't have a silver bullet, but whatever we are doing is clearly not working with the top recruits. Even if the NCAA mess is cleared up, I am not convinced that we will attract top talent to UNC.

Kevin

Roy is not having problems with 4 star players he is struggling with the OAD's. It has been a few years since we have had a position open that a OAD player can say if I go there I will get plenty of playing time. NCAA aint helping. Rather anyone will admit it or not, Harrison Barnes not having an all world Freshman year hurt for a couple of years also.

How can anyone really be mad we are winning big year end and out.

 

[kevindow]

As a father, I would also look at what happened to UNC's recent McDonald's All-Americans:

Pinson: 4 years
Berry: 4 years likely
Jackson: 3 years
Hicks: 4 years
Meeks: 4 years
Paige: 4 years

Obviously, OADs avoid UNC, but our record with McDonald's All-Americans is not so great.

 

[DSouthr]

As a father, I would also look at what happened to UNC's recent McDonald's All-Americans:

Pinson: 4 years
Berry: 4 years likely
Jackson: 3 years
Hicks: 4 years
Meeks: 4 years
Paige: 4 years

Obviously, OADs avoid UNC, but our record with McDonald's All-Americans is not so great.

Respectfully, not a single one of those players were ever considered to be one & done level players, all considered to be very talented but we all saw every one of them as freshmen.

The NCAA stuff has been a major problem and it was a problem made so much worse by the daily media writes ups and by the fact it was negatively discussed multiple times on any broadcast of our games. Considering that we are on TV for the vast majority of our games and recruits watched us on TV they got constantly fed negativity about us. The negative recruiting fed off of that, it had a big time effect. Roy couldn't as much get those top 5 players to even consider a visit.

As you see on a broadcast game now, the NCAA stuff is not mentioned nearly as much and we see some easing on the recruiting circut, not as much as we would like for the 2018 class but I do think they were more open to us than the 2017 class which IMO was more open to us than the 2016 class that was not at all listening to us.

But I do agree in as much that the NCAA stuff is not the only problem, it is a big problem and it is such a problem that it has to actually finally get over and done with before the other concerns can be repaired. But as the NCAA stuff fades and it is fading from over hype at this point thou not by any means over you wil see gradual easing on the recruiting front. I think we wil get more visits from 2018 from kids that would not have visited us a couple years ago. WE are not in it for Bagley or Zion but I do think that at some point Zion and Langford will at least visit and that is progress. Does seem to be a good number of 2019 class that see UNC in a better light than we have been seen in several years.

Why are we beginning to be seen better? First winning sure helps, played in the Natty game last year, very good shot at a final 4 this season, kids love to play for winners, win enough and they will look past any thing else. We were maybe under achieving via the pre-season hype for a string of seasons leading up to last season. IMO, our getting to the final 4 this season is hyper critical to forging a turn on the recruiting front that seems to want to turn now but needs this last little nudge. WE are not going to be KY or duke by looking to load up on one & dones, the big thing for us is to be able to get 1 or 2 a year and most especially one & done big men from our natural foot print areas.

 

[HeelzLover]

With all due respect, I am not buying this theory. UofL has allegations of strippers and prostitution but they have four 4* commits in 2017 and two 4* commits in 2018. My theory: Roy and his pitch don't resonate with the top recruits. If I am the father of a top recruit, why should I send him to UNC ? Right now, I would send him to UK or Duke on the eastern half of the country, and maybe UCLA or Arizona on the western half of the country. And I am a hard core UNC fan. Maybe Roy should use high profile UNC grads who played in the NBA to help with the recruiting process. I don't have a silver bullet, but whatever we are doing is clearly not working with the top recruits. Even if the NCAA mess is cleared up, I am not convinced that we will attract top talent to UNC.

Kevin

Look up Brandon Ingram's reason for not signing for us

 

[DSouthr]

Oh and as for the Pitino thing, you tell me, you are a recruit and they brought strippers in to "escort" recruits and you are 17 & 18 yrs old? Think maybe you may want to consider at least a visit when the school is paying the tab? LOL

 

[Archer2]

As a father, I would also look at what happened to UNC's recent McDonald's All-Americans:

Pinson: 4 years
Berry: 4 years likely
Jackson: 3 years
Hicks: 4 years
Meeks: 4 years
Paige: 4 years

Obviously, OADs avoid UNC, but our record with McDonald's All-Americans is not so great.

Well, if your stance as a father is to get your kid to the NBA ASAP, UNC probably isn't for your son. I would bet the parents of every kid you mentioned is very happy with their sons' college experience. But then, their primary concern wasn't getting their kid to the NBA ASAP.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

As a father (I am by the way) I would be honest enough to know if my son needed to develop in college or could handle going to the league as fast as possible! Not one of the peeps mentioned would have been able to cut it in the pros after one year so as a father I would be thrilled that Roy and Co. coached my son up enough to get NBA buzz! (McD AA does not = OAD!)

I bet Mr. Skal and Mr. Jeter's fathers wish they had made a different choice now! The myth that UNC is not the place for OAD talent is nothing but lazy journalism and negative recruiting. UNC has always had the reputation for thoroughly investigating a player's pro prospects and giving him the best advice. If the best for the player is to go league after one year both Roy and DES ALWAYS encourage them to go! The difference is we don't just kick them out the door or recruit over them if they don't live up to their hype like Cal and ratty do!

 

[RP12]

I like Roy's kids better.

 

[Tom79]

No knuckleheads.
Don't care much for Jay. Ever since the whole jayson/jay thing...seriously? Just cause a guy indicted on murder has the same name?
'Cause people would confuse the two people? Sure thing, Jay/Jayson.

 

[trestyles]

Look up Brandon Ingram's reason for not signing for us

That reason he gave was pure media bull. He wanted instant PT and he got it.

 

[94tarheel]

If you look at the product on the NBA court today, OADs are killing the game. Sure, there are some that made the leap and did well. And, those players did come out of UK. Karl Anthony Towns, Wall, Anthony Davis and the kid playing out in Phoenix. Kyrie is the lone OAD for Dook that has done anything worth mentioning. I love UNC's approach. And, truth be told, it is silly to subscribe any credit to Cal or K or any other coach or player when dealing with OADs. If they are that talented to do well in their rookie season of the NBA, then they only came to a semester of college because the options were limited.

 

[ACokeForRoy]

I agree with Jay Williams (gulp). I wrote something similar on this board a few months ago. Dook and UK have a particular hook working for them and we do not which causes us to fall a tier below them in recruiting. I'm not sure the OAD kids care as much about the chance of winning a championship as much as they care about being a lottery pick after one season. Also there's a thing where just because a kid plays at Kentucky, the nba scouts assume that the kid will be a hug talent. As I have always said, the longer a kid stays in school the more scrutiny he will be under which will hurt his draft stock. It will only get worse with Cal coaching the U19 team. Unfortunately the good players that we have that have been around for 3-4 years are looked at as "old hat". When you see freshman outplaying your 3-4 year players it speaks for itself. I'm thinking about the UK game (Daron Fox and Malik Monk). I'm thinking about the Dook game when Okafer outplayed Meeks. Kids and there parents see this and it affects there decision making because they see there kids in there shoes. Roy just needs to continue doing what he's doing and milking the deep tournament runs in his favor for recruiting. That's really all he can do.

 

[gary-7]

As a father, I would also look at what happened to UNC's recent McDonald's All-Americans:

Pinson: 4 years
Berry: 4 years likely
Jackson: 3 years
Hicks: 4 years
Meeks: 4 years
Paige: 4 years

Obviously, OADs avoid UNC, but our record with McDonald's All-Americans is not so great.

How the hell is that "not great"?

 

[FlaTarHeel]

How the hell is that "not great"?

Hey gary-7 we need to talk. I got some info for you.

I was on the old board(under a different name).

What's your email?

 

[gary-7]

Hey gary-7 we need to talk. I got some info for you.

I was on the old board(under a different name).

What's your email?

Do you have premium? DM me if you do.

 

[gunslingerdick]

How the hell is that "not great"?

Yeah, that's a strange way for Kevin to put it. I mean, it might be true. But good lord, what a sad state of affairs if a parent is pissed that his child is going to graduate from one of the best public institutions in the country. Oh, the horror!

But I get what Kevin is saying. If you were a parent of a top recruit and getting that son to the league as quickly as possible was the plan, then no, UNC probably isn't for him. And that's a lot of the top 25 recruits in any given year. But I don't believe that Roy's message doesn't resonate. And I don't believe it's because we're lacking a superstar in the NBA (I mean, who's Arizona's superstar?) I think it's about PT. Big time recruits want to come in and have all the time they want and all the shots they want. Carolina can't guarantee them either based on the style we play. We're going to play 10 guys. That's just how Roy is. And we're going to play a certain way - very little iso. Kids that have been brought up to learn basketball through the AAU circuit love isolation.

 

[tw3301]

Yeah, that's a strange way for Kevin to put it. I mean, it might be true. But good lord, what a sad state of affairs if a parent is pissed that his child is going to graduate from one of the best public institutions in the country. Oh, the horror!

But I get what Kevin is saying. If you were a parent of a top recruit and getting that son to the league as quickly as possible was the plan, then no, UNC probably isn't for him. And that's a lot of the top 25 recruits in any given year. But I don't believe that Roy's message doesn't resonate. And I don't believe it's because we're lacking a superstar in the NBA (I mean, who's Arizona's superstar?) I think it's about PT. Big time recruits want to come in and have all the time they want and all the shots they want. Carolina can't guarantee them either based on the style we play. We're going to play 10 guys. That's just how Roy is. And we're going to play a certain way - very little iso. Kids that have been brought up to learn basketball through the AAU circuit love isolation.

Arizona's superstar is about 6,000 scantily clad smokeshows on campus.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

Do you have premium? DM me if you do.

Nope

 

[gary-7]

Yeah, that's a strange way for Kevin to put it. I mean, it might be true. But good lord, what a sad state of affairs if a parent is pissed that his child is going to graduate from one of the best public institutions in the country. Oh, the horror!

But I get what Kevin is saying. If you were a parent of a top recruit and getting that son to the league as quickly as possible was the plan, then no, UNC probably isn't for him. And that's a lot of the top 25 recruits in any given year. But I don't believe that Roy's message doesn't resonate. And I don't believe it's because we're lacking a superstar in the NBA (I mean, who's Arizona's superstar?) I think it's about PT. Big time recruits want to come in and have all the time they want and all the shots they want. Carolina can't guarantee them either based on the style we play. We're going to play 10 guys. That's just how Roy is. And we're going to play a certain way - very little iso. Kids that have been brought up to learn basketball through the AAU circuit love isolation.

The part I can't fathom is the idea some push that, as you said, it's a negative that you stay long enough to get an education. No one is making them stay at UNC, and literally nothing Cal or K does gets them "ready" for the NBA. Barnes and JMac could have been OAD and both would have been lottos. They chose to come back. In a sane world that would reflect well on the program, but sadly that is not the case in AAU land

 

[jeans15]

Don't worry boys, my 9 year old will be on his way to Chapel Hill in 8 years. #15 in black..lol

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Nice! Hopefully puke and Kentuck will stay away so my poor little Tar Heels can have a chance at him! He'll be just in time to break the OAD jinx!

 

[superstar57]

As a father, I would also look at what happened to UNC's recent McDonald's All-Americans:

Pinson: 4 years
Berry: 4 years likely
Jackson: 3 years
Hicks: 4 years
Meeks: 4 years
Paige: 4 years

Obviously, OADs avoid UNC, but our record with McDonald's All-Americans is not so great.

A little off note, but all those players will go down as Carolina legends if we win it all this year after being runner up last season.

Just think if Berry stays to go along with a Sr in Pinson and an emerging Bradley and underrated May.

I AIN'T MAD WE DON'T HAVE OAD's