Keep Hubert or fire him?

[DSouthr]

OK, so while so many others were screaming to fire Hubert now all season, I shared many times that I was going to wait till the last game we played was done before I shared my thoughts on this fire Hubert now meme. Well now the season is over, I have taken some time to think thru this rather than from a game aspect but from a season as a whole aspect based on individual games. My mind was made up until the day the GM announcement was made, that did make me stop and re-consider things.

In the end it came down to 2 very critical things, talent evaluation and approach to both defense and offense. These 2 areas were glaring weaknesses by our staff and specifically Hubert, the buck has to stop at the head coach. I honestly needed to see progression as a head coach for a power program, I needed to see year to year things getting better, coaching decisions in player usage making more sense, coaching that featured players strengths rather than forcing them to play to the weakest part of their game but what I saw was I don't know what to do so let's try this and see if it works, how is it you are still tinkering with your starting line up in Feb? You have got to be kidding me when your solution to being so small is to start in Feb the power forward that started for you in November? I needed to see stability and consistency in both offensive and defensive approach, I needed to see Hubert progress and all I saw was tinkering.

I like Hubert as a man, from the aspect of a man could not ask for better to run our program but as a coach it just isn't there and it is time to admit that and move on. If I were Bubba, I would have informed Hubert that he had coached his last game as the UNC head coach directly following the final buzzer of the game against Ole Miss. Not doing so in my mind is kicking the can down the road and hoping he GM and his staff can do what Hubert seems unable to do, that is more likely to be fools gold. You do nothing but gamble with the program when you allow an in-effective head coach stay and not cut your losses before they get even worse. Hubert has become John Bunting, it is time to go and it would be best for all if he left now.

So, there it is, I am officially a member of the fire Hubert club or what ever you want to call it. Hubert will be back for next season, we know that now but his seat will be and should be ultra hot, I think next season will be Hubert's last as UNC head coach and I will support that decision.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

Dave, let me play devil's advocate.

Does your opinion change if the result of the upcoming season is positive? The wild inconsistency of results appears to be the only consistency in this program. We lose in the championship game and follow it up by not making the tournament. We're a number one seed and follow that up by being the last team into the tournament and a first-round departure. If there is any pattern to this team, we might miraculously do well next year. (granted I don't see how).

I happen to agree with you that Hubert should be replaced now. Risk losing Wilson and even the other two freshmen but bring in a big name coach who might bring some players with him. Mediocrity should not be an option for this program and it now appears to be the goal.

 

[JimmyinVA]

...Mediocrity should not be an option for this program and it now appears to be the goal.

hiring a family member is problematic in any business. the reason is simple: they're hard to fire without a lot of pain.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

He deserves an opportunity with a GM and money just like everyone has in the elite 8

You look like a way better coach than you are when your players are better than the other teams

They failed him in every way from that aspect that roster was flawed and the majority of it was flat out just Money

 

[NorCalTarheel]

He deserves an opportunity with a GM and money just like everyone has in the elite 8

You look like a way better coach than you are when your players are better than the other teams

They failed him in every way from that aspect that roster was flawed and the majority of it was flat out just Money

Valid point.

I try to deep dive into the aspects of coaching that are NOT money driven (X's &O's, sets, personnel usage, scouting etc) and each time, Hubert appears to come up short.

It seems like this year they are going to try to give him a little more in the NIL department to see what he can do, but it sure feels like we are prolonging the inevitable.

 

[OldSchoo01]

He deserves an opportunity with a GM and money just like everyone has in the elite 8

You look like a way better coach than you are when your players are better than the other teams

They failed him in every way from that aspect that roster was flawed and the majority of it was flat out just Money

Deserves isn't the word here... Deserves to be fired. Given another opportunity is what it is.

 

[Kool1234567]

He has next year IMO…And when I say next year I don’t mean on the bubble…Needs to finish no worse than 2nd regular season and least get a Top 3 seed in the NCAA tournament….Anything less it’s time to move on…

 

[DSouthr]

Dave, let me play devil's advocate.

Does your opinion change if the result of the upcoming season is positive? The wild inconsistency of results appears to be the only consistency in this program. We lose in the championship game and follow it up by not making the tournament. We're a number one seed and follow that up by being the last team into the tournament and a first-round departure. If there is any pattern to this team, we might miraculously do well next year. (granted I don't see how).

I happen to agree with you that Hubert should be replaced now. Risk losing Wilson and even the other two freshmen but bring in a big name coach who might bring some players with him. Mediocrity should not be an option for this program and it now appears to be the goal.

Cally, no, winning next season really would not change my opinion. The new front office headed by the GM SHOULD allow us to bring in higher level talent that physically matches up, we should be able to win at least like we did season before this one that just ended. But ALL THRU that season I simply did not like what I saw even when we scored well. We still had far to many players playing out of position, we relied far to much on RJ hero ball, far to much on making hard shots and far to little working for a getting good shots and defensively we were clueless with all the changes Hubert made to the defensive approach.

I suspect the collective view toward Hubert would change if we won like we did season before last because most fans look only at who won and who lost the game more than how they played. A poor coach can be masked well when he has big tie talent, Calipari is a great example of just that. I constantly question, does the coach make the team better or is it the players. For example, K at duke was worth a solid 10pts to most games he coached, Dean same, Roy maybe 5. Hubert gives me the feel that he costs us 10pts a game by not having the right combinations on the floor and not allowing guys to play to their strength. This may be the worst UNC staff I have ever seen evaluating talent and understanding how to freakin use that talent, it drive me insane! LOL

 

[tarheels0015]

I almost feel like the dismal season we had it's win a natty or your fired !

 

[DSouthr]

hiring a family member is problematic in any business. the reason is simple: they're hard to fire without a lot of pain.

Jimmy, this keep i tin the family stuff, I look at it exactly like I do the hiring in the business world. If I have 2 candidates that are exactly equal in my mind as fits for the job then OK, I will consider hiring the minority candidate for example. Problem is there is really no such thing as equal candidates, there is always 1 more qualified and more able to perform that the others. I want only the best for the job not the one that best fits some DEI agenda. If you settler for second best candidates you get second tier results.

I would only use the "in the family" as a tie breaker with all else being equal.

 

[notashelbyfan]

IMO Huberts biggest issues is talent evaluation and i can't see how the GM hire we made does anything to help that.

We should have hired and GM with experience in NBA scouting or something like that.

There seems to be that we go out of our way to purposely hire inexperienced people to take on critical roles in this program.

 

[Oak ridger]

He is going nowhere neither are his assistant coaches. Coach can't coach.

 

[Kool1234567]

I almost feel like the dismal season we had it's win a natty or your fired !

No less than an Elite 8…Then he has to follow it up with another very good year…

UNC should be finishing every year Top 10 in the Nation and contending for Titles year in and year out….That is the Standard…

 

[NCAAUCoach]

Hubert is a super nice guy and loves UNC. He was not ready for this job and still hasn’t shown consistency to lead a top program. It’s bad that he started coaching with NIL/transfer as he can’t tap Roy for what to do. We are slipping like UCLA, Indiana and Kentucky all did during periods. The question is how long will we be in this state before we are back (or will we be based on current state of college basketball).

I’ll be honest, I’m losing interest in college basketball if it means we are negotiating pay for play every year. NIL has quickly morphed into a monster not intended on how NIL was presented. I’ve had season tickets for over 20 years and I’m seriously considering not renewing.

 

[DSouthr]

Dave, let me play devil's advocate.

Does your opinion change if the result of the upcoming season is positive? The wild inconsistency of results appears to be the only consistency in this program. We lose in the championship game and follow it up by not making the tournament. We're a number one seed and follow that up by being the last team into the tournament and a first-round departure. If there is any pattern to this team, we might miraculously do well next year. (granted I don't see how).

I happen to agree with you that Hubert should be replaced now. Risk losing Wilson and even the other two freshmen but bring in a big name coach who might bring some players with him. Mediocrity should not be an option for this program and it now appears to be the goal.

This risk losing Wilson stuff, I have read that nonsense, have not said anything, I figured it like a lot of crazy stuff would pass because I consider it a panic driven rumor without any real merit. I will explain, do you, I suspect many do not, understand how or actually when guys get their NIL money? Typically they get a third of it when they actually sign, not when they verbal but when ink meets paper, can't pay anything before that because lot of kids change their minds and open recruitment back up after they have verbal committed else where. They get another 3rd when they go to their first practice, and final 3rd when they show the grades qualify them for the second semester. Wilson is already signed, he has already been paid money, he is locked in.

Further, Wilson was supposed to be in lock step with Jasper Johnson (not Cadeau) early last summer and that is why UNC was getting BOTH Jasper and Wilson, until Jasper committed to Ky, then all the sudden it was Ky getting Wilson and Jasper, well up till Wilson commits to UNC. You see Wilson spoke in a way that made every fan base he visited believe they had him wrapped up. You watch what they do not what they say and bottom line is Wilson's parents really like Hubert, he committed to Hubert, he did not commit to Cadeau.

Finally, this bit about Cadeau and Wilson being such good friends they they just had to play together i9n college? LOL IT was known by our players that as early as December that Cadeau was likely to leave after this season, in fact that he came in to this season thinking NBA or portal, heavy influenced by his family. Momma has been shooting off her mouth to anyone that would listen on social media, do you really think momma talking like that went unknown by Elliott? LOL And yet we are supposed to believe that Cadeau was perfectly happy at UNC no matter what his own mother was saying or that Cadeau was unhappy at UNC but failed to tell his best buddy in life that even when Wilson visited us? Seriously, you have to know better than that, you have to realize that if Cadeau was Wilson's best buddy in life that he would know exactly what Cadeau was planning to do and not commit to UNC but commit to the school Cadeau would leave UNC for. Man, PT Barnum was right, there is one born every minute.

 

[big_deez]

Hubert is a super nice guy and loves UNC. He was not ready for this job and still haven’t shown consistency to lead a top program. It’s bad that he started coaching with NIL/transfer as he can’t tap Roy for what to do. We are slipping like UCLA, Indiana and Kentucky all did during periods. The question is how long will we be in this state, wider we are back (or will we be based on current state of college basketball).

I’ll be honest, I’m losing interest in college basketball if it means we are negotiating pay for play every year. NIL has quickly morphed into a monster not intended on how NIL was presented.

I'm with you on this. At some point you have to establish salary caps and more limits in the portal. Otherwise this will continue to get ugly. As for HD, taking the next 2 or 3 years and hope he learns enough on the job to not be mediocre seems to be the vision of leadership and path forward at the moment.

 

[dtodd4475]

Solid year next year and he is going nowhere. If they struggle anywhere near this year he will be replaced. I think he does well with portal additions and he is the HC moving forward after.

 

[DSouthr]

I'm with you on this. At some point you have to establish salary caps and more limits in the portal. Otherwise this will continue to get ugly. As for HD, taking the next 2 or 3 years and hope he learns enough on the job to not be mediocre seems to be the vision of leadership and path forward at the moment.

Deez, let me assure you of this much, Hubert will begin next season on a very hot seat and is EXTREMELY lucky to have that seat at all. There is ZERO chance that Hubert can have next season look like this one and not be fired, absolute ZERO chance. The ONLY thing that saved his job this time is the school wants to get the GM and front office up and running smoothly and are willing to give him this 1 last chance to show he deserves this job. I understand that, I do not agree with it.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

This risk losing Wilson stuff, I have read that nonsense, have not said anything, I figured it like a lot of crazy stuff would pass because I consider it a panic driven rumor without any real merit. I will explain, do you, I suspect many do not, understand how or actually when guys get their NIL money? Typically they get a third of it when they actually sign, not when they verbal but when ink meets paper, can't pay anything before that because lot of kids change their minds and open recruitment back up after they have verbal committed else where. They get another 3rd when they go to their first practice, and final 3rd when they show the grades qualify them for the second semester. Wilson is already signed, he has already been paid money, he is locked in.

Further, Wilson was supposed to be in lock step with Jasper Johnson (not Cadeau) early last summer and that is why UNC was getting BOTH Jasper and Wilson, until Jasper committed to Ky, then all the sudden it was Ky getting Wilson and Jasper, well up till Wilson commits to UNC. You see Wilson spoke in a way that made every fan base he visited believe they had him wrapped up. You watch what they do not what they say and bottom line is Wilson's parents really like Hubert, he committed to Hubert, he did not commit to Cadeau.

Finally, this bit about Cadeau and Wilson being such good friends they they just had to play together i9n college? LOL IT was known by our players that as early as December that Cadeau was likely to leave after this season, in fact that he came in to this season thinking NBA or portal, heavy influenced by his family. Momma has been shooting off her mouth to anyone that would listen on social media, do you really think momma talking like that went unknown by Elliott? LOL And yet we are supposed to believe that Cadeau was perfectly happy at UNC no matter what his own mother was saying or that Cadeau was unhappy at UNC but failed to tell his best buddy in life that even when Wilson visited us? Seriously, you have to know better than that, you have to realize that if Cadeau was Wilson's best buddy in life that he would know exactly what Cadeau was planning to do and not commit to UNC but commit to the school Cadeau would leave UNC for. Man, PT Barnum was right, there is one born every minute.

Agree. My comment about the risk of "losing Wilson" was as a fallout of firing Hubert, not Cadeau leaving.

Fire Hubert and I think there is a VERY real risk Wilson would bail for all the reasons you just listed.

 

[keysersosay#1]

Dsouthr I respect your views insights and opinions greatly. I have to say that like others have said that I will give HD this upcoming season to get the ship back on track. There is a lot of w work to be done and the GM helps imo.

Roster construction this past season was abysmal......we obviously need to get much bigger, stronger, tougher you name it. Watching this year's team play looked like watching a HS team play against college teams.
The thing I am most concerned about is the PTB.....is Their commitment strong enough for us to get back to competing with the top 10 programs.....all of whom seem to have lots and lots and lots of CASH that they are all spending on players

The SEC is flush with cash and look who is dominating this year. No surprise at all. someone earlier Said they are losing interest in college ball because of agents nil portal...money!!! ME TOO!!

All these changes are not for the better imo..but if you want to compete at the highest level you gotta do what you gotta do. Is Carolina willing to do what's necessary and needed????

 

[DSouthr]

Agree. My comment about the risk of "losing Wilson" was as a fallout of firing Hubert, not Cadeau leaving.

Fire Hubert and I think there is a VERY real risk Wilson would bail for all the reasons you just listed.

Oh, sorry, I took it as if we lost Cadeau. Yeah, losing Hubert I would almost bet would have cost us Wilson, it was a factor I strongly considered when considering if Hubert should be fired now.

 

[heels05champs]

He deserves an opportunity with a GM and money just like everyone has in the elite 8

You look like a way better coach than you are when your players are better than the other teams

They failed him in every way from that aspect that roster was flawed and the majority of it was flat out just Money

Hubert was the one against a GM, not Bubba. At least that is what I have read. He was wanting to do things the old way and that way no longer exist. Remember last summer - “Carolina will never be a transactional program”?

 

[DSouthr]

Dsouthr I respect your views insights and opinions greatly. I have to say that like others have said that I will give HD this upcoming season to get the ship back on track. There is a lot of w work to be done and the GM helps imo.

Roster construction this past season was abysmal......we obviously need to get much bigger, stronger, tougher you name it. Watching this year's team play looked like watching a HS team play against college teams.
The thing I am most concerned about is the PTB.....is Their commitment strong enough for us to get back to competing with the top 10 programs.....all of whom seem to have lots and lots and lots of CASH that they are all spending on players

The SEC is flush with cash and look who is dominating this year. No surprise at all. someone earlier Said they are losing interest in college ball because of agents nil portal...money!!! ME TOO!!

All these changes are not for the better imo..but if you want to compete at the highest level you gotta do what you gotta do. Is Carolina willing to do what's necessary and needed????

Thanks Key, means more than you can know! My strong feeling is there is a rock solid commitment from the powers that be, lets define who they are, Bubba, chancellor, the BOG, the super RAMS that UNC basketball will not be sacrificed on the altar of football success. I think to an extent this past season the eye got taken off the ball a bit with the concern of building up football for a very specific reason (to be appealing to the SEC and BIG) and UNC basketball got shorted by not being prepared. Things like Hubert be asked to place money values on players he was recruiting or negotiating with agents, ect. These things are just not what you want a coach doing, it is what you need a business man to do. It is no wonder we got our clocks cleaned in the past portal, we had amateur going against pros, like a new US congressman that actually wants to help the people back home before he gets top DC, yet gets there and it is nothing like what he thought. I spent the first 6mo of a 20yr career in the mortgage industry just trying to learn the language, faking it til I was making it. Hubert tried to fake it thru but that is a cut throat world and he just was not equipted or prepared.

 

[1heel4life]

I'm with you on this. At some point you have to establish salary caps and more limits in the portal. Otherwise this will continue to get ugly. As for HD, taking the next 2 or 3 years and hope he learns enough on the job to not be mediocre seems to be the vision of leadership and path forward at the moment.

Salary caps will mean nothing to dook, alabama, auburn, tennessee and the crooked programs in colleges.

 

[DSouthr]

Hubert was the one against a GM, not Bubba. At least that is what I have read. He was wanting to do things the old way and that way no longer exist. Remember last summer - “Carolina will never be a transactional program”?

It always struck me as odd that Hubert was able to decide to bringin a GM or not, that should be a Bubba decision. Of course you would want your coach to buy in but bottom line the GM should hold the same sway as Hubert and report to Bubba rather than Hubert.

 

[DSouthr]

Salary caps will mean nothing to dook, alabama, auburn, tennessee and the crooked programs in colleges.

The problem with the salary cap is boosters will then just create marketing opps for the players they want their favored schools to get, salary cap can not legally limit the outside of NIL commercial deals now that this rabbit hole has begun to be explored.

 

[heels05champs]

Here is a question to ponder: If Hubert had zero affiliation with the school and was not Roy’s selected successor, would he still be the head coach?

I think the answer is no, he would have been fired at the end of this season. Four years is ample time to see what type of coach you’ve got and I think we pretty well know what Hubert is at this point.

I think another year of Hubert is delaying the inevitable and I really believe we will find ourselves in a similar spot this time next year after wrapping up another below average season. So, the rebuild will be delayed by another year.

 

[al would]

I wasn't the biggest fan of him being hired to start with and after seeing his body of work in his tenure my mind hasn't changed. It seems if one played under DES and then was an asst. coach under RW then they would take the philosophy and successful offensive and defensive schemes both employed and deployed by 2 HOF coaches and try to either find the players that best fit that system or at least slightly modify it to accommodate and cover whatever personnel shortfalls that are there The product hubcap has put on the floor (for the most part) during his tenure has in no way resembled what I would consider good bball because it generally lacks direction, purpose, and more importantly effort by the players. Since hubby's hire the most consistent thing he has done is produce inconsistencies and direction and that will ruin any organized effort. It won't hurt my feeling to say goodbye to hubcap.

 

[RP12]

I maintain that no one thinks he is a top 20 coach and nothing that happens this season will change that really. They should have taken the opportunity to upgrade night now. The only two things that I see work for sure right now are money and top coaches. Even then we know there will be roster misses some seasons so having a coach who can maximize is even more important.

 

[WoadBlue]

hiring a family member is problematic in any business. the reason is simple: they're hard to fire without a lot of pain.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

So you only hire a family member who is proven beyond any doubt. Roy was so proven. Hubert was not proven ready for anything but another lead assistant coach job.

 

[Ozheelfan]

What I’m confused about is Hubert still thinks he’s the man for the job!

If he truly loves UNC and had any ounce of realistic perspective, he would have walked after the final siren against Old Miss.

 

[big_deez]

I wasn't the biggest fan of him being hired to start with and after seeing his body of work in his tenure my mind hasn't changed. It seems if one played under DES and then was an asst. coach under RW then they would take the philosophy and successful offensive and defensive schemes both employed and deployed by 2 HOF coaches and try to either find the players that best fit that system or at least slightly modify it to accommodate and cover whatever personnel shortfalls that are there The product hubcap has put on the floor (for the most part) during his tenure has in no way resembled what I would consider good bball because it generally lacks direction, purpose, and more importantly effort by the players. Since hubby's hire the most consistent thing he has done is produce inconsistencies and direction and that will ruin any organized effort. It won't hurt my feeling to say goodbye to hubcap.

Al, I wasn't a fan of the hire either, for many reasons. However I considered his years under RW, playing for DES, experience as an analyst and his exposure and connections within the league, could possibly change my mind. So far, I still think this was not a good hire but honestly, what do I know? At this point, there are a lot of folks that believe he should be let go but honestly, should he be given another year to build a team, show some level of improvement that includes quality coaching and better player development? I still think his inability to keep or willingness to lose EC is a mistake. There is time to figure out how to develop and coach him to be a legitimate, scoring pg. Lastly, I suspect if this team still had Love, the season would have been more successful.

 

[NathanFielder]

it generally doesn’t work out too well if you make a change a year late rather than a year early. My hope is that there is a clear line of what an acceptable season for Hubert is. I think the fact he’s a UNC grad lowers that bar.

For example, if Hubert gets UNC a 3 seed and they lose in the 2nd round, I think Hubert returns because it was growth or a good regular season, etc.

I’ve said this over and over again. If you think Hubert is not right for this program, then it is best that it’s clear and obvious to everyone this coming season. It will hurt in the short term. But it will guarantee a necessary change if that’s what’s required.

You really don’t want an ok 2nd RD or S16 season. Also, you really don’t want them to stumble into the tournament as a 10 seed and get to the Elite 8. If Hubert isn’t the right guy, it’s best for it to be clear and obvious.

 

[Archer2]

Rip the bandaid off!

 

[RoseHeel]

With the way the portal has started, nature might run its course.

All I'll say is UNC Football Head Coach Bill Belichick had some interesting words about keeping a guy for too long.

 

[tarheels0015]

Hire Florida's HC

 

[al would]

Hire Florida's HC

ez now ..

 

[RP12]

I get that people have short memories but UNC hoops has been the laughingstock of college basketball TWICE in HD’s 4 years-preseason #1 to missing tournament and then getting in this year. Meanwhile dook replaces K and has their best team in 25 years.

 

[Old_School59]

OK, so while so many others were screaming to fire Hubert now all season, I shared many times that I was going to wait till the last game we played was done before I shared my thoughts on this fire Hubert now meme. Well now the season is over, I have taken some time to think thru this rather than from a game aspect but from a season as a whole aspect based on individual games. My mind was made up until the day the GM announcement was made, that did make me stop and re-consider things.

In the end it came down to 2 very critical things, talent evaluation and approach to both defense and offense. These 2 areas were glaring weaknesses by our staff and specifically Hubert, the buck has to stop at the head coach. I honestly needed to see progression as a head coach for a power program, I needed to see year to year things getting better, coaching decisions in player usage making more sense, coaching that featured players strengths rather than forcing them to play to the weakest part of their game but what I saw was I don't know what to do so let's try this and see if it works, how is it you are still tinkering with your starting line up in Feb? You have got to be kidding me when your solution to being so small is to start in Feb the power forward that started for you in November? I needed to see stability and consistency in both offensive and defensive approach, I needed to see Hubert progress and all I saw was tinkering.

I like Hubert as a man, from the aspect of a man could not ask for better to run our program but as a coach it just isn't there and it is time to admit that and move on. If I were Bubba, I would have informed Hubert that he had coached his last game as the UNC head coach directly following the final buzzer of the game against Ole Miss. Not doing so in my mind is kicking the can down the road and hoping he GM and his staff can do what Hubert seems unable to do, that is more likely to be fools gold. You do nothing but gamble with the program when you allow an in-effective head coach stay and not cut your losses before they get even worse. Hubert has become John Bunting, it is time to go and it would be best for all if he left now.

So, there it is, I am officially a member of the fire Hubert club or what ever you want to call it. Hubert will be back for next season, we know that now but his seat will be and should be ultra hot, I think next season will be Hubert's last as UNC head coach and I will support that decision.

Fire him. Great guy, middling coach.

 

[NCAAUCoach]

Whether we admit it or not, Duke’s success better play a roll. They are going to a Final Four this year and reloading with talent after. We are not close to that. The talent gap in their roster and our roster is laughable.