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Las Vegas shooting

I mean why do we even have laws against rape or murder? They won't stop a psychopath anyways...

What silliness. Laws affect everyone. If you aren't willing to abide by them then you will be arrested, charged, and prosecuted. If these modifications were illegal then he could have been busted by the ATF months ago.
 
The modification kits should be illegal to sell, purchase, own and even video. At this point i think owning a full auto or aiding these mods should be treated the same way owning child porn is. I’m all for the 2nd amendment but u cant convince me that there is one single legit reason to own a full auto except to kill mass quantites of people and that goes beyond the right to own a gun. Its just wrong.
 
The modification kits should be illegal to sell, purchase, own and even video. At this point i think owning a full auto or aiding these mods should be treated the same way owning child porn is. I’m all for the 2nd amendment but u cant convince me that there is one single legit reason to own a full auto except to kill mass quantites of people and that goes beyond the right to own a gun. Its just wrong.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000

...

The NRA will be in full blitz mode to prevent these mods from being banned. They know how many AR-15's get sold for the sole purpose of converting them to full auto.
 
I don't see any reason why civilians need anything more than a shotgun and simple hunting rifle for anything. I've got rubber slugs, birdshot, buckshot... everything I need. If you can't do it with a shotgun or a hunting rifle then you aren't adroit or intelligent enough to have powerful weapons of any kind. Aside from being easy to carry, I don't even see why someone needs a pistol. But pistols never hinder crime... Heck the only reason cops need a pistol is for portability quick-draw, convenience and easy holstering - why does a civilian ever need anything other than a hunting rifle or shotgun?
 
I don't see any reason why civilians need anything more than a shotgun and simple hunting rifle for anything. I've got rubber slugs, birdshot, buckshot... everything I need. If you can't do it with a shotgun or a hunting rifle then you aren't adroit or intelligent enough to have powerful weapons of any kind. Aside from being easy to carry, I don't even see why someone needs a pistol. But pistols never hinder crime... Heck the only reason cops need a pistol is for portability quick-draw, convenience and easy holstering - why does a civilian ever need anything other than a hunting rifle or shotgun?

Why does anyone need a motorcycle? A car works just as well and you aren't nearly as likely to die in a crash.
 
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Why do average citizens need machine guns?


You can't possess one legally without a Federal license, so the average citizen doesn't need one.

I have a fully automatic Ak-47 and a fully automatic M4, therefore I am not an average citizen.

I need them because my toenails turn bright orange if I don't have them.

That sounded a lot better than "none of your !@#$ing bidness, Strum."
 
Yeah and they don't let you drive one without proper training and safety equipment either.

I imagine roughly 99% of the people that own rifles and shotguns don't have proper training in how to safely handle them either.

So what's your point.
 
You can't possess one legally without a Federal license, so the average citizen doesn't need one.

I have a fully automatic Ak-47 and a fully automatic M4, therefore I am not an average citizen.

I need them because my toenails turn bright orange if I don't have them.

That sounded a lot better than "none of your !@#$ing bidness, Strum."
I didn't ask for polite, just honesty.

It would have just been easier, and honest, to say "I don't need one."
 
But I do need one. In fact, I need two.

And to be quite honest, the reasons why are none of your !@#$ing business, Strum.

Honest enough?
Lie if you like. You don't need either of them and you know it, I know it, everyone else knows it. "None of your business" is fine.


Oh, and that comparison about cars and motorcycles doesn't pass either.

A car, or motorcycle, or transportation of some kind, is typically needed by individuals to get to and from their place of work, or to do other things that requires travel that exceeds their ability to walk- and public transportation is not available. They don't need a Bell AH-1 Cobra helicopter that is loaded with missiles and 50 caliber machine guns.
 
Lie if you like. You don't need either of them and you know it, I know it, everyone else knows it. "None of your business" is fine.


Oh, and that comparison about cars and motorcycles doesn't pass either.

A car, or motorcycle, or transportation of some kind, is typically needed by individuals to get to and from their place of work, or to do other things that requires travel that exceeds their ability to walk. They don't need a Bell AH-1 Cobra helicopter that is loaded with missiles and 50 caliber machine guns.

I like you Strum but don't call me a liar again. You forget what I do for a living.There are definite reasons I have those two weapons and to possess them at home or where ever I have to have a Federal license.

The response about cars/bikes wasn't about need genius it was about choice.
 
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I like you Strum but don't call me a liar again. You forget what I do for a living.There are definite reasons I have those two weapons and to possess them at home or where ever I have to have a Federal license.

The response about cars/bikes wasn't about need genius it was about choice.
This whole discussion is about choice/preference and need.

Unless you'e an active combat soldier, why could you possibly need a machine gun? You need one around the house? Who could possibly be a threat that you NEED a machine gun in your home or neighborhood?
 
I imagine roughly 99% of the people that own rifles and shotguns don't have proper training in how to safely handle them either.

So what's your point.
My point is exactly that. If you own a gun or are interested in owning a gun you should have to undergo training, have a proper license, or whatever other various procedures to try to ensure safety. No training=no gun
 
My point is exactly that. If you own a gun or are interested in owning a gun you should have to undergo training, have a proper license, or whatever other various procedures to try to ensure safety. No training=no gun

My bad man...I had you confused with Blazers.
 
Machine guns are illegal for normal citizens.
Good news. Whatever normal is, of course.

And, I'm very pro-gun rights. A gun is just a tool, in many ways. We are all appalled by these killings. I'm hoping we do more to correct it and change it instead of getting used to it and having it become almost an expected part of society.
 
Machine guns are illegal for normal citizens.

If you mean all fully automatic weapons, that definitely is not true. In many states you simply have to purchase a tax stamp, and pass the federal and state background checks and you can purchase a fully automatic assault rifle. It is perfectly legal to buy a machine gun in the state of Nevada for example. They are tightly regulated, but not unobtainable for normal citizens with enough cash.
 
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Interesting.

6) An interesting and widely unknown fact, since the NFA went into effect in 1934, there has only been ONE, yes, ONE single felony committed in the whole United States since 1934 that involved a legally registered NFA firearm. And it was committed ironically by a crooked police officer who went to a drug house and shot someone on the premises. He used his legally acquired UZI sub machinegun to commit the crime. You hear all the time of machineguns and sawed off shotguns in the news but these have all been by individuals possessing an illegal, non registered weapon. There are millions of records of legally owned entries on the NFA registry too, so it’s not like we’re talking just a few hundred or thousand potential individuals.


http://www.oldglorygunsandammo.com/nfa-class-iii-weapons/
 
I'm not big on gun control but I don't see why anyone would object to people having to have training and maybe some sort of mental eval to own certain kind of guns. I know we can't do that for hunting rifles but too many wouldn't pass the mental evaluations but for big time guns that could potentially kill tons of people I don't understand the objection. I just assumed that sort of thing already went on tbh. I don't have a gun but have a family full of gun owners (including an uncle with an entire reinforced safe room with enough ammo and weaponry and the ability to make his own of each to make many on this board a big fan I'm sure) and support their right completely to own them. Heck, my boy has two guns he hunts with.

I think the rhetoric on the extremes is what gets us. No one is going to make most guns illegal, nor wants to, but the idea that all of these issues could be solved with strict laws is silly as well.
 
This whole discussion is about choice/preference and need.

Unless you'e an active combat soldier, why could you possibly need a machine gun? You need one around the house? Who could possibly be a threat that you NEED a machine gun in your home or neighborhood?

First, let me say I appreciate the polite and (mostly) non-name calling discussion about this. It is rather refreshing.

The discussion about choice/preference vs. need is one I can only answer with: "Why is it YOUR business if I WANT one?" Seriously, just because you don't understand why I might want something like that doesn't mean I shouldn't have one if I am legally able to purchase one and have the resources. You might not want it, but if I do, what business is it of yours if I go buy one? I am not a criminal, nor do I intend to ever commit a crime with it. It is an inanimate object that requires human interaction in order to function, so whatever it "may" or "may not" do depends entirely on me. Just like a motorcycle, Ferrari, or Lear jet. If I am irresponsible and do something stupid, there are laws to punish me. Someone could die, but if I am spending that much on a single rifle, I doubt I am leaving it on the coffee table for some kid to pick up.

If you mean all fully automatic weapons, that definitely is not true. In many states you simply have to purchase a tax stamp, and pass the federal and state background checks and you can purchase a fully automatic assault rifle. It is perfectly legal to buy a machine gun in the state of Nevada for example. They are tightly regulated, but not unobtainable for normal citizens with enough cash.

That is not completely true. Fully automatic weapons have been and are still illegal by FEDERAL law. You "can" by fully automatic weapons from individual to individual that was grandfathered in after 1986 (I think that was the year the law was passed). As for new ones, it has to be from federally licensed dealer, but in both cases there is a strenuous background check, licensing, registration and fees and taxes. In most cases, you are looking at around $10,000 and the feds monitor and check up on things regularly. Plus they alert local and state law enforcement that you have it and provide them with everything about you, so it isn't like some whack job with a pile of cash or some gang banger will be getting them that way.

But, I go back to what I said before, whose business is it if I do buy one? If I have no criminal background, no mental issues (and, YES, they DO check for that) and I have the money, why shouldn't I be able to buy one?

As a gun owner, I tell people who ask me about buying a gun to 1) take a class and learn how to properly handle one and 2) go to a reputable firing range and have a trained instructor work with you firing different guns until you find one you like. IF you decide to buy one, then practice, practice and practice some more. Learn what it will do and how to handle it and treat it like you would any other object that could kill you if handled improperly. Do that and you will be fine.

I carry mine in my truck because I am on the road a lot. I don't do it because I am looking for trouble, but if I break down in the middle of the night, I don't want to be a statistic. Every time I have been pulled over (NOT often), I follow the same rules: 1) I turn on all lights inside the truck and roll down all windows. 2) I stick both hands out the window and let the officer know I have a loaded firearm in the truck with me, what it is, where it is and tell him I am not doing anything until he tells me to. 3) If he is at the window and asks for something I have to reach anywhere near the gun for, I let him know that before I do it and ask if it is OK for me to do it. Not once have I had an issue and every single time I had them tell me they were fine with me doing what I needed to do and they weren't worried about me. I had one highway patrolman tell me he appreciated me letting him know everything and he gave me a warning and sent me on my way.

I understand some people don't like them and don't want to be around them. I respect that and won't do anything to make anyone uncomfortable because I respect them and their beliefs. All I ask is you do the same for me.
 
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There are a lot of things that people want that shouldn't be legal. I want it is an absurd argument to support something. I'm not anti-gun but some of the arguments here seem pretty irrelevant. The vehicle comparisons are the worst though. Keep your guns. I'm all for it tbh. If you are going to justify it come up with something better though. You don't really have to justify it though. It is a right. The only points to be made are to counter the points people make to justify regulation.
 
First, let me say I appreciate the polite and (mostly) non-name calling discussion about this. It is rather refreshing.

The discussion about choice/preference vs. need is one I can only answer with: "Why is it YOUR business if I WANT one?" Seriously, just because you don't understand why I might want something like that doesn't mean I shouldn't have one if I am legally able to purchase one and have the resources. You might not want it, but if I do, what business is it of yours if I go buy one? I am not a criminal, nor do I intend to ever commit a crime with it. It is an inanimate object that requires human interaction in order to function, so whatever it "may" or "may not" do depends entirely on me. Just like a motorcycle, Ferrari, or Lear jet. If I am irresponsible and do something stupid, there are laws to punish me. Someone could die, but if I am spending that much on a single rifle, I doubt I am leaving it on the coffee table for some kid to pick up.

I prefer to keep it polite and debate this rationally. We make progress that way.


It's not just MY business, it's all of our business. We coexist here. We're occupying the same space. We're interacting in the same locations together. These weapons are obviously a threat to many people because of their capability. And, again, I ask you, as an average citizen "WHY do you need such a weapon?" Considering the damage it can do and the potential harm it can present to me and everyone else, if it gets into the wrong hands, I think you are obligated to explain WHY you WANT one. We already know and agree that they are not needed.

Comparing vehicles you might want to weapons you fancy is like comparing apples to space rocks. Vehicles are modes of transportation that nearly every citizen of driving age owns, unless they live in a city like New York. They have a universal purpose and they're not made to inflict death on other people. People need transportation as a vital part of their day-to-day lives. But, if you want to use transportation as an example... American citizens don't NEED an Abrams Tank to get around town back and forth to work. They don't need a fully-armed Huey Cobra to fly from their residence to their vacation homes. They aren't practical, and they're dangerous as hell!

If you use this recent killer as an example, it's entirely possible for you, or anyone, to go off-your-rocker one day and just start wasting people. There was nothing to make anyone raise an eyebrow on this guy. He wasn't a criminal either... until he became a very famous one right before he killed a slew of people and himself. Too late then! I'm not saying you will. It's most likely you won't. But... if you did, I'd prefer that the worst you could do is fire your 30-06 rifle, or even a shotgun, as opposed to the weaponry this guy had and have corpses piled up around the block before you're subdued.

You'll never totally prevent these killings from occurring. But, it would be a helluva lot better if we 1) don't become totally desensitized to these tragedies, because of their frequency, and say "Well, that's just how it is, oh well" and move-on, and 2) at least drastically minimize the number of potential deaths! You wanting a machine gun is not worth them being legal to own for everyone. Especially if someone forgets their meds, or has some kind of episode and loads-up on ammo and kills a few dozen to several hundred people.

I do NOT want to make firearms illegal. Prohibition does not work. I truly believe that if Marijuana would have been available and legal, we wouldn't have crystal meth now. I could be wrong, however. Because, we have had firearms available for centuries here, and now people feel the need to be armed like the 82nd Airborne for some reason. You'd think that the old reliable's would suffice. Rifles (sporting, hunting, you name it), shotguns, handguns even, are fine. I think they should require extensive background checks to own them, but I do not want to take away our right to own firearms and defend ourselves, hunt for sport and food, etc.. However, we, as citizens, do not need the firepower capability of a Seal team in order to get our Rambo on, or simply feel protected.
 
It's not just MY business, it's all of our business. We coexist here. We're occupying the same space. We're interacting in the same locations together. These weapons are obviously a threat to many people because of their capability. And, again, I ask you, as an average citizen "WHY do you need such a weapon?" Considering the damage it can do and the potential harm it can present to me and everyone else, if it gets into the wrong hands, I think you are obligated to explain WHY you WANT one. We already know and agree that they are not needed.

Again, it is an inanimate object that you are saying should be banned because someone "could" use it to inflict damage. For that reason alone, the comparison to cars, airplanes or anything else is perfectly legitimate. It doesn't matter what that object is or how much damage it "could" inflict, in the hands of a normal person who uses it properly, it doesn't harm anyone. In the hands of someone intent on doing harm, it can be deadly. That is true for all kinds of everyday items.

You mentioned this guy going off his rocker and, because he had some guns, he used them to kill a bunch of people. Well, he also had his pilot's license at some point. What if he had decided to load up a plane full of fuel and fly it into the hotel instead of shooting a bunch of people? Again, he would be using an inanimate object for a purpose of destruction. The one common factor in both scenarios is the person. A plane filled with fuel could potentially do a hell of a lot more damage than 20 guns. We have already seen that happen. Same with a car or van or just about anything else. Folks in Europe have already seen what a car can do in the hands of someone hell bent on hurting people but I don't see anyone saying we need to ban them.

You want to take away the object because you personally don't like it and justify removing it by saying it is "dangerous" and non one "needs" it. Well, again, the object isn't the problem, the person is. I get you don't like guns. I get you think they "could" do harm in the hands of someone with evil intent and I agree on that point, but I disagree that the object that the nut job uses is the problem. If that were the case, we would have a hell of a lot more deaths since there are already over 300 million guns in the US right now. At best, 20 were used in this killing spree, yet the millions of legal gun owners who not once even consider using their gun for bad purposes are being told we have to give them up or be further restricted from owning them because of some idiot.
 
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Why does anyone need a motorcycle?
It is an inanimate object that requires human interaction in order to function, so whatever it "may" or "may not" do depends entirely on me. Just like a motorcycle, Ferrari, or Lear jet.
The vehicle comparisons are the worst though.
I think the comparison to vehicles is great. To operate a motor vehicle you are required to pass some semblance of a competency test and each vehicle must be registered. But the gun lobby fights tooth and nail to prevent legislation requiring similar licensing and registration for firearms.

Would that not be a reasonable place to start the discussion?
 
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