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Late stuff (UVA game)...

Stats can be very deceiving. What most do not realize about Andrew, is that he is an upperclassman with better than normal instincts. His shooting has been terrible, that cannot be denied. However, most on here think that he is slow and cannot guard his man. This is not true. One would think that all the opposing players that score against him, do so because he is defending them. That's not the case. If it were he would not be getting the minutes that he does.

What you are actually seeing is him trying to split guard someone else's man when the defense breaks down. In other words, he is trying guard his man, who he leaves at times, to guard someone else's man who they have lost due to bad rotations, or just not being alert and it looks as though he is the problem, when in fact, it's another players man who he is trying to cover for and it looks as bad as we see it.

This is another reason that being at a game live will allow you to see the coaches pull players and speak to them about missing assignments, that causes an avalanche of defensive breakdowns. I have yet, this year, to see Roy or any of the assistants get on Andrew about his defense, so don't go there. Stats do not always tell the truth my friends.
Thank you for the insight and inside knowledge. It’s true, platek’s shooting has been horrendous but he’s been the whipping boy on this board for everything that’s going wrong.
 
You're correct that stats aren't always everything, but in this case they are. There are a truckload of stats to prove he isn't the guy. As far as his D goes, you can't honestly say that he is a good defender when people continue to blow by him when he is directly guarding them. I'm not talking about when he is splitting or when there is a problem with rotation. Like others have said, it isn't his fault. He's clearly giving it everything he has, he's just limited skill wise. There are plenty of people on this board who are fairly knowledgeable about the game and what I said is almost a unanimous opinion. At the very least you have to admit that who is the best two is debatable and not a fact.

Like I said, stats don't tell the truth sometimes. Why does he continue to get the minutes if he is so bad? Have you tried to defend your man and another man's too? Look, I watch the games and have seen it with my own eyes, and Roy and the other assistants as well, and he is not being reprimanded for either his offense or his defense. How would you go about arguing with those guys that Andrew is not worth the scholarship
he is taking up, as you seem to think?

Mind listing that truckload of stats for us?

Bottom line: Roy plays him, so there has to be a very good reason for it, ever think about that?
 
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Like I said, stats don't tell the truth sometimes. Why does he continue to get the minutes if he is so bad? Have you tried to defend your man and another man's too? Look, I watch the games and have seen it with my own eyes, and Roy and the other assistants as well, and he is not being reprimanded for either his offense or his defense. How would you go about arguing with those guys that Andrew is not worth the scholarship
he is taking up, as you seem to think?

Mind listing that truckload of stats for us?

He gets minutes because there’s almost no other choice. There is a talent gap on this team that’s hardly usual for most Carolina squads. If this is any other year he wouldn’t sniff the light of day.

There’s also the fact that Roy recruited him because in 2017 no one in the top 100 other than Jalek was even considering Carolina. This year is exactly the result of a bad recruiting class catching up to you.
 
Not sure how anybody can say with a straight face that Platek is a good basketball player for us, on either end of the floor. Man on man, I’m not sure he could stay in front of Wanda Williams at this point, much less box her out and keep her off the boards.

worst on the ball defender. Worst perimeter rebounder. Zero threat to score off the dribble. 15% 3 point shooter. 35% from the field. 58% from the line. There’s been multiple games he’s played nearly 20 minutes and been lucky to give us a rebound and an assist. Please stop the nonsense. At this point I’ve heard everything but it’s a conspiracy and it’s not really Andrew wearing the Platek jersey. Or perhaps he’s one of our best players but is trying to lull other teams to sleep until conference play when he breaks out for us. Literally give it up. He’s awful.
 
He gets minutes because there’s almost no other choice. There is a talent gap on this team that’s hardly usual for most Carolina squads. If this is any other year he wouldn’t sniff the light of day.

There’s also the fact that Roy recruited him because in 2017 no one in the top 100 other than Jalek was even considering Carolina. This year is exactly the result of a bad recruiting class catching up to you.

Not sure how anybody can say with a straight face that Platek is a good basketball player for us, on either end of the floor. Man on man, I’m not sure he could stay in front of Wanda Williams at this point, much less box her out and keep her off the boards.


While I disagree with your assessments overall, I also agree that we are deficient in our talent pool. So, where does that leave us? Griping, moaning, or bitching about certain players, while it might relieve some of the angst we may be feeling, it serves no good purpose in the end.

Roy Williams is coaching the University of North Carolina, not us, and if he deems that Andrew Platek is the player best suited to play at any given time in a game, then how do you argue with that and demean one of our players when he is playing better than some who are more talented than he is?
 
While I disagree with your assessments overall, I also agree that we are deficient in our talent pool. So, where does that leave us? Griping, moaning, or bitching about certain players, while it might relieve some of the angst we may be feeling, it serves no good purpose in the end.

Roy Williams is coaching the University of North Carolina, not us, and if he deems that Andrew Platek is the player best suited to play at any given time in a game, then how do you argue with that and demean one of our players when he is playing better than some who are more talented than he is?

I see your point and I’m sick of talking about it, Platek is low hanging fruit. We have much larger problems and I’ve said that multiple times but I’m also sick of the nonsense in some folks trying to spin it like Platek is productive for us when on the floor to try and be positive? You can be positive but you’ve also got to be truthful. He’s low on Talent and it’s been glaring, and he’s getting minutes because we have a lot of kids that are low on talent at this level and collectively, we are very bad offensively. Easily the worst ever for Roy by a long shot. Can it improve? I sure as hell hope so. Is Platek a piece of the puzzle to help us get better? I don’t think so, at all frankly. He does nothing that creates space and keeps opposing defenses honest when he’s on the floor. His presence on the floor magnifies our weaknesses. We’ve got to move those minutes elsewhere at this point.
 
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While I disagree with your assessments overall, I also agree that we are deficient in our talent pool. So, where does that leave us? Griping, moaning, or bitching about certain players, while it might relieve some of the angst we may be feeling, it serves no good purpose in the end.

Roy Williams is coaching the University of North Carolina, not us, and if he deems that Andrew Platek is the player best suited to play at any given time in a game, then how do you argue with that and demean one of our players when he is playing better than some who are more talented than he is?

Platek's defense hasn't ever looked anywhere near as bad to me as some of our folks here claim.

Most UNC web boards I have visited have a number internet "experts" who are always sure they see or know something from afar that a HALL OF FAMER who works with these guys in person nearly every day is missing. It's ridiculous, actually. This board is by far the worst.
 
Hello Guys

Been away from the board most of the time the last few days, as I putter along behind my wife and in-laws shopping. The neat thing about that is I get recognized and pulled aside for discussions about BB and as a result, am not on the brink of suicidal boredom. It also irritates my wife and in-laws, and that's how I get my revenge for being made to go in the first place.

I have read most of the posts in this thread and understand the bemusement that we all have concerning this years team, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. I am sure that many who have watched our guys on TV shoot and know immediately that the shot has no chance of going in, should know that when you are watching it in person, it looks even worse.

How can our perimeter players who have earned reputations as shooters and those we have watched in the past shoot the ball with acceptable accuracy, suddenly become so inaccurate that they are often 1-2 feet off target on their shots, post players throwing up unbalanced and off target shots that have no chance of going in and most of our players cannot make 15 ft. unguarded free throws?

Well, it appears to be a conundrum for sure...., but, then again, maybe not. I had a very interesting discussion Tuesday with a party we would all be familiar with. Evidently, the staff, or some of them, think that the guys are pressing and wanting to do all the things that they have been learning to do and perform in practice and then translate that to the games.

When they have been successful, their confidence rises only to have it deflated when they make mistakes. On the surface, this makes a bit of sense when you look at our relative youth and inexperience. Then combine that with what he said was a, "too ball dominant Cole".

He also said that Cole realizes he has the ball in his hands too much, however, when the team's offensive free lance, secondary breaks, and third breaks- breakdown, it's either try and make a shot or turn it over, and we all have seen both happen way to often with no points and fast breaks going the other way, so the blame is not Cole's entirely, as it has to be shared breakdowns and it is mandatory to get that fixed.

Perimeter spacing is another area that is a cause for stagnant offensive flow. Players not named Cole Anthony are going to be watched very closely and graded on movement away from the ball in order to move defenders away from Cole and creating the needed space to ignite an offense. There has been way too much standing and watching Cole or other players with the ball, and NO movement that creates the desired traffic necessary for a decent offensive flow.

Finally, he mentioned something that really interested me. It very well looks like 3-4 of our players are really suffering not only confidence issues, but Tar Heel winning tradition issues, and are putting so much pressure on themselves to play Carolina basketball, that it is paralyzing their efforts to a large degree. Personally, I can see this as a genuine issue. Like most of you, I do not know what we can expect from game to game until we resolve the above.
Solid gold stuff!!!
 
I see your point and I’m sick of talking about it, Platek is low hanging fruit. We have much larger problems and I’ve said that multiple times but I’m also sick of the nonsense in some folks trying to spin it like Platek is productive for us when on the floor to try and be positive? You can be positive but you’ve also got to be truthful. He’s low on Talent and it’s been glaring, and he’s getting minutes because we have a lot of kids that are low on talent at this level and collectively, we are very bad offensively. Easily the worst ever for Roy by a long shot. Can it improve? I sure as hell hope so. Is Platek a piece of the puzzle to help us get better? I don’t think so, at all frankly. He does nothing that creates space and keeps opposing defenses honest when he’s on the floor. His presence on the floor magnifies our weaknesses. We’ve got to move those minutes elsewhere at this point.

I fully understand the position that you are taking in regards to Andrew.
We are just going to have to disagree as to whether he provides any value to our team. If there is another player on the roster that, in the future, can supplant Andrew with his play, then I am sure that Roy will take full advantage of that and play him.

I think those who denigrate the play of Andrew are looking for a scapegoat for the losses we have endured so far. I would be willing to wager that their is zero, none, nada, any, on our team that feels about Andrew the way that some on this board feel.

Look, do yourself and others a favor, and I am not trying to be facetious at all...., call into Roy's coach's show this week and ask him why he is playing Andrew...., tell him what you're telling the board, that he should not be playing Andrew, that he is one of the main reasons we are losing games, he is slow, cannot shoot, cannot defend, and that our talent sucks. I think it would illicit an interesting response from him, and I would love to hear it, although you most likely will not.

I am in no way an Andrew Platek apologist, nor, am I trying to make Andrew out to be a much better talent than he is, what my intentions are, is to remove the scapegoat label that many are sticking on him, when, if you have eyes and have any basketball savvy ( and I think many to most on the board do ), there is no way in this world that we live in today, that would allow one to single out and point a finger at any Carolina player as being a major flaw with this team, when the whole team is suspect.
 
Reading thru this thread, can't help but notice how much of the "discussion" is about Platek as if he is the single reason this team has struggled to score? It is as if the discussion can not be engaged unless you gio to one or the other extreme, Plateck either is not able to be a D1 player or he is great but not much room in the middle ground? I am absolutely in that middle ground on the kid, not the best player we have ever had and certainly not chopped liver, not the most talented 2 guard we have had available this season but may be the most able to fill the position, at least until others get healthy. He is one of the most experienced guards we have and he is very vocal on the court, 2 things we are not in great supply of right now. I see no reason to bang on the kid to the degree he has been in this thread.

Guys, I suspect it isn't Platek, I suspect there is a strong factor that gary actually likes Platek, and maybe does go a touch over the top for the kid but I do not see him going as far over the top on his comments for this season as many seem to need to push him as? Honestly believe that had gary said Platek sucks then the same folks screaming how awful the kid is as a 2 right now would sing his praises. It is this on going nonsense of lets get gary and many here really do not wish to see or participate int hat nonsense, its childish.

75 knows what he is talking about, he has told you straight about Platek, how the staff considers the kid, meaning Roy's view, does that mean nothing to you guys? Yes gary is prone to go over the top on a player he likes, no gary is not going to back up on a statement he makes, and no you are not going to force him or embarass him in to doing so, this isn't new news folks, you have known this for years and yet the effort remains. The definition of insanity is doing the same things you have always done and expecting different results and you folks expecting gary to change by doing the same old thing, using the same ole tactics will get the same results you always have never considering that maybe gary isn't the problem, maybe it is time to drop the agendas and vendettas and just discuss like adults should be able to.
 
He gets minutes because there’s almost no other choice. There is a talent gap on this team that’s hardly usual for most Carolina squads. If this is any other year he wouldn’t sniff the light of day.

There’s also the fact that Roy recruited him because in 2017 no one in the top 100 other than Jalek was even considering Carolina. This year is exactly the result of a bad recruiting class catching up to you.

I think you make somewhat of a fair analysis with your post. What you are not including is also important when viewing our talent overall. What about our injured? What if one of Harris or Jerimiah, or both, resolve their issues and make a noticeable improvement in the team's play?

We have talent, maybe not the level of talent that we are accustomed to seeing on a Carolina team, and it is young & inexperienced. What most are wanting, is a Carolina team that plays the way we are used to seeing Carolina team's play. Sorry, but until we work through our team issues it's not happening, and our less than stellar play cannot be laid at any one player's feet.

That is not fair and is fundamentally wrong, as basketball is a team sport and success and failure will always depend on how a particular team comes together and plays together, regardless of talent level.
 
... basketball is a team sport and success and failure will always depend on how a particular team comes together and plays together, regardless of talent level.
your mistake here is "regardless of talent level." team chemistry is a key for success, of course. but talent level is a still factor. every year you see teams with great fundamentals and team work get beaten by superior talent.
 
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your mistake here is "regardless of talent level." team chemistry is a key for success, of course. but talent level is a still factor. every year you see teams with great fundamentals and team work get beaten by superior talent.

I don't follow you or maybe I am not understanding the point you are trying to make. Do you not also see year after year, teams with much less talent outplay and defeat teams that are much more talented, as say a Kentucky or Duke this year, and many over the past years? To date, we have not had to endure those kind of defeats, so what is your point?
 
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Platek was ranked around 250 in the country coming out of high school which is on par with many non power 5 type players. In hindsight, his ranking was correct or maybe even too favorable. He’s just not a good player on either end of the floor. With that said, he’s certainly not the sole reason for the team struggling nor is he the scapegoat. Platek partly takes the criticism on this board because a select few continue to tout how valuable he his to the team which draws the criticism of his play.
 
Platek was ranked around 250 in the country coming out of high school which is on par with many non power 5 type players. In hindsight, his ranking was correct or maybe even too favorable. He’s just not a good player on either end of the floor. With that said, he’s certainly not the sole reason for the team struggling nor is he the scapegoat. Platek partly takes the criticism on this board because a select few continue to tout how valuable he his to the team which draws the criticism of his play.

Now that's a view I can understand and buy into. Then again, we (me included at times) sometimes have to throw a stone or two in order to try and wrap our minds around the dysfunctional aspects of our team. As I have mentioned, it's not simply one player, it's collective, and we are doing a disservice to Platek by spotlighting his play, when the play of those who are imminently more talented and have had a more causative affect on the undesirable outcome of the 3 games we have lost than he has had.
 
I fully understand the position that you are taking in regards to Andrew.
We are just going to have to disagree as to whether he provides any value to our team. If there is another player on the roster that, in the future, can supplant Andrew with his play, then I am sure that Roy will take full advantage of that and play him.

I think those who denigrate the play of Andrew are looking for a scapegoat for the losses we have endured so far. I would be willing to wager that their is zero, none, nada, any, on our team that feels about Andrew the way that some on this board feel.

Look, do yourself and others a favor, and I am not trying to be facetious at all...., call into Roy's coach's show this week and ask him why he is playing Andrew...., tell him what you're telling the board, that he should not be playing Andrew, that he is one of the main reasons we are losing games, he is slow, cannot shoot, cannot defend, and that our talent sucks. I think it would illicit an interesting response from him, and I would love to hear it, although you most likely will not.

I am in no way an Andrew Platek apologist, nor, am I trying to make Andrew out to be a much better talent than he is, what my intentions are, is to remove the scapegoat label that many are sticking on him, when, if you have eyes and have any basketball savvy ( and I think many to most on the board do ), there is no way in this world that we live in today, that would allow one to single out and point a finger at any Carolina player as being a major flaw with this team, when the whole team is suspect.

Yet again, if you read my post(s), I’ve said multiple times that we have much larger issues than Platek although fundamentally his issues are a microcosm of our issues across the board. Platek is actually on the secondary tier of issues with this team well behind the shortcomings of BRob, Leaky, and Keeling to be specific. Those guys inability to be effective consistently on offense is our biggest issue, and it’s not even close. Platek only comes into play when folks start talking about him being a solution and he’s not. I’m simply responding to folks who continue to portray he and others on our roster as legitimate difference makers for us and their body of work doesn’t support it at all. Not sure how that continues to get spun, but do recognize the convenience in doing so to support your narrative.
 
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The BEST option we have at the 2 finally took the floor. Let's see what happens next.

I love all our guys that pull on that Carolina jersey with 2 exceptions. Platek gives his all but he is to slow and can't shoot a lick. Look at his numbers and argue against that. And NO he is not the whipping boy. He just is the one some are trying hard to build up and it ain't there.

I'm far more disappointed with BRob and Leaky. Thought we would get a lot more from those 2. And we may yet, but so far they have really let the team down. Jmhho

I see better days ahead Tar Heels.
 
your mistake here is "regardless of talent level." team chemistry is a key for success, of course. but talent level is a still factor. every year you see teams with great fundamentals and team work get beaten by superior talent.
your mistake here is "regardless of talent level." team chemistry is a key for success, of course. but talent level is a still factor. every year you see teams with great fundamentals and team work get beaten by superior talent.

bingo. That’s the biggest misrepresentation on this board in the sense that everything is about Roy being great (he is) and team chemistry. Is it extremely important? Yes. But without talent, it doesn’t get you over the hump. Roy himself had said that as important as X’s and O’s are, it’s still about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s to a certain extent. We can’t pick and choose when what Roy says fits our agenda. Does the most talent win every time? Certainly not but you’ve got to have a competitive balance of talent to be among the best and we are missing that in a big way this year. We don’t have the pieces. Again, Roy is best equipped to figure this out but the issue will always be lack of talent with this team. You can mix and match and maximize what we have but truth is, that ceiling is lower this year than usual.
 
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Platek was ranked around 250 in the country coming out of high school which is on par with many non power 5 type players. In hindsight, his ranking was correct or maybe even too favorable. He’s just not a good player on either end of the floor. With that said, he’s certainly not the sole reason for the team struggling nor is he the scapegoat. Platek partly takes the criticism on this board because a select few continue to tout how valuable he his to the team which draws the criticism of his play.

winner winner chicken dinner
 
The BEST option we have at the 2 finally took the floor. Let's see what happens next.

I love all our guys that pull on that Carolina jersey with 2 exceptions. Platek gives his all but he is to slow and can't shoot a lick. Look at his numbers and argue against that. And NO he is not the whipping boy. He just is the one some are trying hard to build up and it ain't there.

I'm far more disappointed with BRob and Leaky. Thought we would get a lot more from those 2. And we may yet, but so far they have really let the team down. Jmhho

I see better days ahead Tar Heels.

Nice post Mike. Like I have said, I am not an AP apologist. I believe he is getting worked over unfairly. If Roy is playing him, then he is our best option at the moment, and we can piss and moan about it all we want, it's not going to change until, like you or someone ( may have been me) mentioned, a better solution is found.

I also would add, in response to your mention of numbers. If you are going to look at AP's numbers, then look at them all, and it doesn't paint a very nice picture does it? I too, am disappointed with the play of BRob & Leaky, whom we all most likely will agree are several levels above Andrew talent wise. Why do they not get the same or even closer scrutiny for their play to date? It's because some think that AP's play is directly associated with our poor play, and that is not so, it's collective, and the team will have to collectively raise themselves up and out of this mire that they have created.

So far, we have played approximately 30% of our schedule, so there is opportunity to reverse course and play better, and I think that we will.
We are also going to lose some more games in the process, so we better prepare for those as this season progresses. Much depends on our perimeter guys, whos shots are not falling and will never fall if they continue playing like Chinese firemen.
 
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I think you make somewhat of a fair analysis with your post. What you are not including is also important when viewing our talent overall. What about our injured? What if one of Harris or Jerimiah, or both, resolve their issues and make a noticeable improvement in the team's play?

We have talent, maybe not the level of talent that we are accustomed to seeing on a Carolina team, and it is young & inexperienced. What most are wanting, is a Carolina team that plays the way we are used to seeing Carolina team's play. Sorry, but until we work through our team issues it's not happening, and our less than stellar play cannot be laid at any one player's feet.


That is not fair and is fundamentally wrong, as basketball is a team sport and success and failure will always depend on how a particular team comes together and plays together, regardless of talent level.

Yeah, those two guys getting healthy is very important. That was my point earlier. Platek plays because someone has to play and at times is better than the other options. Keeling as well tbh. Heck, even Leaky in the starting lineup isn't ideal for this team. The hope is that with guys healthy there are now better options and better roles for everyone. That would be beneficial to AP IMO. It would place him in the role he should be in anyway and I think would help his production. Almost everyone losses efficiency with more usage at some point and that point is different for everyone. I think his efficiency would go up with less usage and less pressure and better matchups.

No one wants him or anyone else to fail. We pull for all of these guys to succeed. Selfishly and also for their own sake, because we feel some sort of connection to them through being a fan.
 
Platek's defense hasn't ever looked anywhere near as bad to me as some of our folks here claim.

I was about to say this. He stays in front of his man as often as everyone else. Or at least close. Moreover, he is always in the right place at the right time and doesn't make stupid mistakes. If his shooting were better I would be happy with him on the court as a backup.

He's 5th on the team in Assists/Min and the only player in the top 5 with an A:O above 2:1. He's 52% from 2 which isn't bad for a guard. And many of his assists and points are not gimmes.
 
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Like I said, stats don't tell the truth sometimes. Why does he continue to get the minutes if he is so bad? Have you tried to defend your man and another man's too? Look, I watch the games and have seen it with my own eyes, and Roy and the other assistants as well, and he is not being reprimanded for either his offense or his defense. How would you go about arguing with those guys that Andrew is not worth the scholarship
he is taking up, as you seem to think?

Mind listing that truckload of stats for us?

Bottom line: Roy plays him, so there has to be a very good reason for it, ever think about that?
I’d imagine his minutes will dwindle as Harris and Francis return to form.
 
Like I said, stats don't tell the truth sometimes.
I said as much in the post you replied to.

Why does he continue to get the minutes if he is so bad?
Because there isn't a whole lot of options. But it's not like he's getting 30 mpg. He's getting 18.4. Those are backup numbers, not "clearly the best two" numbers. This leaves two options. Either Roy can't evaluate players correctly or some people on this board don't know the difference between fact and opinion.

Have you tried to defend your man and another man's too?
Not recently. This has no relevance to the discussion though.

Look, I watch the games and have seen it with my own eyes
So has everyone else on this board, so this doesn't really make you an outlier. There are other people who can evaluate the game as well.

Roy and the other assistants as well, and he is not being reprimanded for either his offense or his defense.
What exactly is Platek supposed to be reprimanded for? The main reasons he is having issues is because he is slower and less athletic than most of the people he is guarding. I don't think that is something Roy would get mad at him about. I can't imagine Roy yelling at him for being slow.

How would you go about arguing with those guys that Andrew is not worth the scholarship
he is taking up, as you seem to think?
I've never said he isn't worth a scholarship. Try again.

Mind listing that truckload of stats for us?
Those stats have been listed in this thread and other threads multiple times. Scroll through them to find them. I'm not taking the time to repeat the same thing.

Bottom line: Roy plays him, so there has to be a very good reason for it, ever think about that?
No, it's never crossed my mind that Roy has reasons to play players. I assumed he was pulling names out of a hat.

Here's the deal. My original post was just saying that it's not a fact that he is our best two, it's an opinion. That's all I said. For whatever reason you felt the need to go at me for that simple statement. What makes you look even worse is that almost everyone is saying the same thing I'm saying, but instead of jumping on them you are saying they have legit points.

I have no clue why you have an issue with me (although I have my theories) and to be honest, I don't really care. You do you. You seem like a knowledgeable guy and I usually enjoy reading your post, but don't fall into the "I know better than everyone else" trap that some people here have fallen into. That seems to be happening lately and we don't need another person like that on the board. Now that I've said all of that, I'm finished with this conversation. Reply if you want to, but I'm done. Have a good weekend.
 
For the "why isn't he being reprimanded comment", there have been at least 2 occasions where I've seen Roy chew out AP when he got out of a game for a bad defensive possession. And that's only what they've shown on camera.

As for the "most disappointing player" convo for this year so far - for me it's Keeling and it isn't even close. I really thought he'd give us 10-15ppg while not hurting us on defense. He has done neither.
 
Some on this board might want to look at the "numbers within the numbers" on our players.
If you have to ask then you haven't got a clue as to what it means or what our staff goes over in daily meetings or with the team.
As has been pointed out AP is not the only guard on the team and certainly not the guard making most of the critical basketball errors.
 
Bottom line: Roy plays him, so there has to be a very good reason for it, ever think about that?
Yes, and after the 7:34 stretch Gary is hanging his hat on, Platek never went back into the game. It was a two-possession game at the 10:17 mark in the second half and he never saw the floor again.

Also worth noting that our per-40 pace during that stretch was technically 68.7 points, but we were outscored by 1 point which put Virginia's per-40 pace at 74.0 points. Not the hill I'd want to die on if I'm trying to use that as evidence of Platek's contributions.
 
Some on this board might want to look at the "numbers within the numbers" on our players.
If you have to ask then you haven't got a clue as to what it means or what our staff goes over in daily meetings or with the team.
As has been pointed out AP is not the only guard on the team and certainly not the guard making most of the critical basketball errors.

It's because for some reason some people on this board try to single him out for being a bright spot on this team and it's ridiculous. This doesn't fit stats or the eye test.

If someone posted a thread praising Keeling's contribution to our team thus far - they'd get the same backlash that we're giving AP.

We're only talking about it because people keep bringing up how "good" AP has been.
 
Yes, and after the 7:34 stretch Gary is hanging his hat on, Platek never went back into the game. It was a two-possession game at the 10:17 mark in the second half and he never saw the floor again.

Also worth noting that our per-40 pace during that stretch was technically 68.7 points, but we were outscored by 1 point which put Virginia's per-40 pace at 74.0 points. Not the hill I'd want to die on if I'm trying to use that as evidence of Platek's contributions.
Continues to ignore that over half of that stretch we were held completely scoreless. Sounds important to me in that analysis!
 
It's because for some reason some people on this board try to single him out for being a bright spot on this team and it's ridiculous. This doesn't fit stats or the eye test.

BINGO!

75, This dak post says exactly what I was going to say! Im all for goving credit where credit is due. Platek, BRob, Leaky, Keeling have all earned zip for praise. Seen glimmers of Pierce that are encouraging.

Just hope the guys realize it is on them to be gym rats and improve their shooting if nothing else. Not scoring is killing us.
 
It's because for some reason some people on this board try to single him out for being a bright spot on this team and it's ridiculous. This doesn't fit stats or the eye test.

If someone posted a thread praising Keeling's contribution to our team thus far - they'd get the same backlash that we're giving AP.

We're only talking about it because people keep bringing up how "good" AP has been.

Preach. not sure how many other ways or by how many different people it can be said. This isn’t an indictment on Platek. He’s been awful but so have pretty much our whole team for a large majority of the early part of the season. There’s always mistakes and growth at this stage but this year is different. We have major deficiencies on offense and with talent in general and it’s attributed to our roster make up (affected by some early departures but also by that terrible junior class). As I shared in my post earlier, Platek is farther down the list of perimeter culprits to our struggles, well behind Leaky, BRob, Keeling and even Pierce to a small degree. Platek continues to get brought up by a select few guys that continue to portray him as a good player for us when every factor you look at says otherwise. The kid can play 20 minutes for us, have 0 points, 2 turnovers, 1 assist, 0 rebounds, get beat off the dribble for 8 points in that time and we are -10 while he’s on the floor, and these same guys will come on here talking about how he was a bright spot, so cerebral and always making the right play and being in the right spot. Are you kidding me? That is why the discussion continues to go where it is when others point out how bad he’s been. You think people like trashing Platek? Hell no he’s certainly a good dude and I wish he was better for himself and our team but he’s not. It’s the ridiculousness of some of these arguments, some of which are coming from long time posters on this board who have pretty good basketball accumen and are simply taking a stance for the sake of taking a stance vs simply saying I was wrong or my expectations were too high. That’s what’s ridiculous about this whole thing. Own it.
 
I think the biggest issue is that this team does not have a George Lynch or David Noel type of upperclassman who knows when to tell a guy to get off his ass and play and when to tell him to relax, stop thinking and just play. UNC has only had 3 cupcake games (UNCW, Elon and Gardner Webb) and none of those with a healthy team.

A young team really needs game reps to gain confidence and carry over what they learn and do in practice. Ideally Leaky is playing 3/4, but with injuries he had to be back-up pg early.

I still expect this team to make some NCAA noise come March, but I also expect some bad losses prior to that. This team will be a work in progress all season, hopefully they are hitting their stride and being healthy when it counts.
 
And now the responses have shifted away from stats towards “stats don’t tell the whole story, look at the numbers within the numbers.” This is usually code for a kid that does some things well that help the team win that don’t show up on the stat sheet. Things like this are said about a Theo Pinson or a Kenny Williams. Guys who contributed towards team success by being a lock down down defender, or creating some space off the dribble consistently to free up spots on the floor for shooters or bigs. Being flexible to play multiple positions. Platek does none of that. Just stop the BS narrative. I’m starting to have major concerns about some of your well being. It’s getting that bad.
 
I said as much in the post you replied to.


Because there isn't a whole lot of options. But it's not like he's getting 30 mpg. He's getting 18.4. Those are backup numbers, not "clearly the best two" numbers. This leaves two options. Either Roy can't evaluate players correctly or some people on this board don't know the difference between fact and opinion.


Not recently. This has no relevance to the discussion though.


So has everyone else on this board, so this doesn't really make you an outlier. There are other people who can evaluate the game as well.


What exactly is Platek supposed to be reprimanded for? The main reasons he is having issues is because he is slower and less athletic than most of the people he is guarding. I don't think that is something Roy would get mad at him about. I can't imagine Roy yelling at him for being slow.


I've never said he isn't worth a scholarship. Try again.


Those stats have been listed in this thread and other threads multiple times. Scroll through them to find them. I'm not taking the time to repeat the same thing.


No, it's never crossed my mind that Roy has reasons to play players. I assumed he was pulling names out of a hat.

Here's the deal. My original post was just saying that it's not a fact that he is our best two, it's an opinion. That's all I said. For whatever reason you felt the need to go at me for that simple statement. What makes you look even worse is that almost everyone is saying the same thing I'm saying, but instead of jumping on them you are saying they have legit points.

I have no clue why you have an issue with me (although I have my theories) and to be honest, I don't really care. You do you. You seem like a knowledgeable guy and I usually enjoy reading your post, but don't fall into the "I know better than everyone else" trap that some people here have fallen into. That seems to be happening lately and we don't need another person like that on the board. Now that I've said all of that, I'm finished with this conversation. Reply if you want to, but I'm done. Have a good weekend.

1. On this point we are agreed, not much options to choose from.

2. Not relevant to the discussion? I disagree. AP, in trying to cover up another player's defensive mistake allows the breakdowns that are leading to the baskets a 6 year old can make. It is a typical move that is made by a player who has been in the system for a while and has never worked out well, as the players are taught to help when another player's man gets beat. Happens a lot, the man with the ball always has the advantage, as he knows where he is going and the defender does not, and it results in the opposing player getting free from his initial or primary defender, and as a result, AP and others are making this mistake over and over trying to stop or slow the ball handler when a player beats their man to a lane on the floor. That needs to stop, I agree, but I cannot fault him for it.

3. I know that others can see the game, however, knowing the how's & the why's that playing in this system affords you, I just might offer a little more insight into the game. If not, then disregard anything I say, that's ok with me, as I do not discount the probability that others can evaluate the games as well, if not better than I, then again, I do have a little experience to draw from and, like you and others, I have my opinions. I know that they are not always the correct ones, although I would challenge you to find a post of mine where I have denigrated a player to such an extreme as I have read on this thread. Don't think I don't get it, I do, AP is not the level of talent that we are accustomed to in a Carolina uniform, but to single him out, is unjust and unfair when other players who are a lot more talented are playing as bad, or, even worse at this time.

4. Players are reprimanded on a consistent basis, especially when they have not been playing like they practice. Bad defense, bad shot selection, missing assignments, etc. These are things you hardly get to see on TV, but are happening all through the course of a game. It's called coaching.

5. If you never said he wasn't worth a scholarship, then I beg your pardon. Your posts on this subject belie your assertions, and if that is your opinion, so be it.

6. If you want to discuss stats be prepared to discuss the stats of all the players playing meaningful minutes, it's an eye opener. I know what the stats show, and they are ugly to say the least, but every player playing meaningful minutes has an ugly stat line for the most part, would you not agree?

7. I choose to disregard your sarcasm, but the fact remains, Roy is coaching and running this team, his decisions are law and absolute.
If he feels that playing AP or anyone else on the team or to take a
guy off the street and play him, it's on him, he gets paid to coach and win games, of which he has done extremely well his entire career. I trust that he will find answers if there are any. I'm done here, we've spent way to much energy and time with this.
 
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QUOTE="dadika13, post: 1288548, member: 2638"]It's because for some reason some people on this board try to single him out for being a bright spot on this team and it's ridiculous. This doesn't fit stats or the eye test.

If someone posted a thread praising Keeling's contribution to our team thus far - they'd get the same backlash that we're giving AP.

We're only talking about it because people keep bringing up how "good" AP has been.[/QUOTE]

Well... I haven't gotten the idea that he is being singled out as a bright spot in our play. Damn..., if he's the bright spot, then we have a very dark picture here.

Look, he is not that, but neither are the others playing at this time.

I have said on more than 1 occasion that AP is lacking in talent compared to others on our team. I have also stated on more that 1 occasion, and it might be that I haven't made myself clear, that he is doing what Roy has asked him to do to the best of his abilities, and apparently, he is doing it well enough that he is seeing close to what 20 min a game? I have also stated that this may continue or may cease, depending on whether 1 or more players step up and take his minutes. It infuriates me to see individuals eviscerate a player who is simply doing the best he can under direction and is seeing good playing time because of it.
 
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And now the responses have shifted away from stats towards “stats don’t tell the whole story, look at the numbers within the numbers.” This is usually code for a kid that does some things well that help the team win that don’t show up on the stat sheet. Things like this are said about a Theo Pinson or a Kenny Williams. Guys who contributed towards team success by being a lock down down defender, or creating some space off the dribble consistently to free up spots on the floor for shooters or bigs. Being flexible to play multiple positions. Platek does none of that. Just stop the BS narrative. I’m starting to have major concerns about some of your well being. It’s getting that bad.
Great post - and great points in this thread by many - about how AP is being assessed properly / equitably.

Is AP a liability for us on both ends? Unquestionably. Is AP's play the biggest issue facing this team right now? No way. Emergence from Keeling, Leaky, BRob - and what we can get from Francis and Ant are of much more importance. I just don't think the key to significant team improvement lies in getting more, better play for AP. It's about 6th or 7th on the list at best.

I think most on this board (including me) are rooting for AP and have nothing against him personally, and like his work ethic and strong-teammate attitude. He's a good guy. But that shouldn't be conflated with his basketball athletic ability or lack thereof. Not his fault, but people need to deal with the reality of what is.

@GoNtheDistance I think the "items that don't show up on the stat sheet" for AP - some would say - is he's 1st team All-American at "spacing" and "floor generalship" and "dog" spirit - and he may be high on our team ranking in blown assists.

Not one of these things does jack for actually scoring, or defending on the other end, if you don't have the athletic ability to compete and contribute at this level.
 
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Stats can be very deceiving. What most do not realize about Andrew, is that he is an upperclassman with better than normal instincts. His shooting has been terrible, that cannot be denied. However, most on here think that he is slow and cannot guard his man. This is not true. One would think that all the opposing players that score against him, do so because he is defending them. That's not the case. If it were he would not be getting the minutes that he does.

What you are actually seeing is him trying to split guard someone else's man when the defense breaks down. In other words, he is trying guard his man, who he leaves at times, to guard someone else's man who they have lost due to bad rotations, or just not being alert and it looks as though he is the problem, when in fact, it's another players man who he is trying to cover for and it looks as bad as we see it.

This is another reason that being at a game live will allow you to see the coaches pull players and speak to them about missing assignments, that causes an avalanche of defensive breakdowns. I have yet, this year, to see Roy or any of the assistants get on Andrew about his defense, so don't go there. Stats do not always tell the truth my friends.
Spot on again, 75.

It has been one of our in-game topics of conversation as to AP covering for bad rotations and trying to help direct traffic. Also IIRC, his man didn't score in his second shift --- maybe one bucket in the first --- and he was the ONLY guy to guard UVA's lefty wing shooter worth a damn.

Your general point is very well-stated. I'm sure you're famliar with the old expression "glue-guy" --- and yeah, he is one. But on offense he is also what I used to call a "lube-guy", i.e., he helps things flow --- and boy do we need that right about now...
 
Y'all quit worrying about Gary's opinion. Once he takes a stand, he wont change his mind. It is what it is, even though everybody knew he was dead wrong on Coby he would not acknowledge he was wrong about him. He won't admit he's wrong about Platek either, read his write ups, state your opinion and move on. Thank you
Yup, this. Gary wouldn't be Gary if he changed his opinion on players when he realized he was wrong. Him digging in on certain things and continuously bringing them up in his write-ups makes him the Gary that we all know and love.

This is shaping up to be a loooong season, and if Gary can bring a little comedic value to it by banging the drum that Platek isn't way out of his element playing significant minutes for UNC, then more power to him. Every court needs its jester.
 
Yup, this. Gary wouldn't be Gary if he changed his opinion on players when he realized he was wrong. Him digging in on certain things and continuously bringing them up in his write-ups makes him the Gary that we all know and love.

This is shaping up to be a loooong season, and if Gary can bring a little comedic value to it by banging the drum that Platek isn't way out of his element playing significant minutes for UNC, then more power to him. Every court needs its jester.

Lol. This is an all time backhand compliment. 2nd only to this one for me:

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