Yes. Either that or a pay adjustment to get his compensation in line with his new contribution level.
Loyality, where did it go?
- Thread starter DSouthr
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Yes. Either that or a pay adjustment to get his compensation in line with his new contribution level.
It isn't that I disagree but it is more that from my perspective the ideals we used to hold dear are not on display as much as they once were. I was asked a question about business but the truth is business now days is more about the dollar than it is about old fashion values. It isn't a lacking in the sports world it is in every aspect of society. Business does not care about its employees so the employees should not care about the business but to me that is 2 wrongs looking to make a right?
And it has gotten to the point where you see those old fashioned values and mention them and you get replies that they are out dated or not possible in today's world and I find that sad. We seem to live in a disposable world, use a thing up, throw it away, and buy another one even better.
What about the Spurs' loyalty to a littany of non-Tim Duncan players that they traded away, cut, or forced out during Duncan's time in San Antonio? Were the Spurs loyal to those players?? Nope. Loyalty doesn't exist in a vacuum. Showing loyalty to one person/employee/thing very well might mean showing disloyalty to another person or group of people.
And BTW, re: business being about the dollar.....well yeah, yes it is about the dollar. However, it is possible to be ethical and loyal while still chasing the dollar. But at some point, tough decisions have to be made. That's why business owners or CEOs get paid the big bucks....because they have to make those tough decisions. Life is tough. Business is no different.
" Showing loyalty to one person/employee/thing very well might mean showing disloyalty to another person or group of people."
^ So showing loyalty to one is being disloyal to someone else?
I am guessing you and I come from different generations, we look at things thru differing sets of lens because we were taught different things in different ways. I am going to leave it at just that else this becomes a way off topic discussion.
But back to why I started this thread, I do admire and respect the loyalty Tim Duncan showed his organization, his team, and those Spurs fans. I am not going to apologize for that. You do not have to agree or even respect the word loyalty, I do and I admire it when it see it in others...
Of course it's to be admired, Tim Duncan is a class act. But you also need to recognize the circumstances that allowed the Spurs and Duncan to be that mutually loyal to each other. You don't need to apologize for wanting to see loyalty, just that there's a business aspect of sports and if it had served the Spurs, Duncan would have been let go, or if another team had given him a better chance to win, he would have gone there.
It's great to see these relationships in sports- Jeter with the Yankees, Kobe with the Lakers, Duncan with the Spurs, Cal Ripken with the Orioles, Lewis with the Ravens, Elway with the Broncos, even Brady with the Patriots. But they're the exception not the rule.
It's great to see these relationships in sports- Jeter with the Yankees, Kobe with the Lakers, Duncan with the Spurs, Cal Ripken with the Orioles, Lewis with the Ravens, Elway with the Broncos, even Brady with the Patriots. But they're the exception not the rule.
Uhhh YES, it can absolutely mean that.
LOL, nice subtle insult as you're "leav[ing] it at that."
What about Joe Montana and the 49ers? They chose to trade him in place of Steve Young. Joe Montana was my idle growing up, I was devastated when that happened. But as a grownup, it was the right business move. Should the 49ers have sacrificed their next 7-8years to be loyal to Joe? Their greatest player in franchise history?
Let's look at a recent example. The Warriors. They offered a pretty solid deal to HB last year. He declined it to hold out for more money this year. Was that disloyal on HB's part? What about when they had the chance to get KD, and they did. That effectively shoehorned out HB from G.S. Was that G.S. then being disloyal to HB? No it was business.
Let's look at a recent example. The Warriors. They offered a pretty solid deal to HB last year. He declined it to hold out for more money this year. Was that disloyal on HB's part? What about when they had the chance to get KD, and they did. That effectively shoehorned out HB from G.S. Was that G.S. then being disloyal to HB? No it was business.
I just think LeBron would have been more "loyal" to the Cavs if the Cavs drafted a future top 50 player in NBA history, hired the future greatest or second greatest coach in NBA history, drafted one of the best european players in the nba at that point... Like the Bulls did for Michael Jordan.
Ok, let's look at it this way... Let's put LeBron on the Spurs where his second best player on the team was David Robinson. Robinson averaged 19 ppg, 10 rbs, 2 blk with Tim Duncan during Duncan's first three seasons. So you hand LeBron an all time big man, a coach who is on his way of being a legend and a front office that churns HOF'ers. Would LeBron leave? Probably not and there's no evidence he would have because his goal was very linear. It was to win multiple championships.
Loyalty is easy when you get treated right. Loyalty is hard when you aren't.
Ok, let's look at it this way... Let's put LeBron on the Spurs where his second best player on the team was David Robinson. Robinson averaged 19 ppg, 10 rbs, 2 blk with Tim Duncan during Duncan's first three seasons. So you hand LeBron an all time big man, a coach who is on his way of being a legend and a front office that churns HOF'ers. Would LeBron leave? Probably not and there's no evidence he would have because his goal was very linear. It was to win multiple championships.
Loyalty is easy when you get treated right. Loyalty is hard when you aren't.
The Patriots and Brady are probably the best example of mutual loyalty in sports today. Brady gives them extremely team friendly home town discounts, and the Pats ensure he's fully taken care of, calls shots on and off the field, and will probably offer him a coaching job when he retires (if for some stupid reason he wants to coach instead of retiring to his own private island to live out his days with Giselle). And if he doesn't want the coaching job, Kraft will probably give him a nice retiring bonus check (not that he needs it).
That's true, but that situation still fits the situation that @TarHeelNation11 was talking about. The Patriots and Brady are winning, so it's mutually beneficial from a business standpoint. Belichick has had no problem dumping players in the past and if he wasn't getting any super bowl rings out of Brady he would trade him if he thought it could get him a ring. I think the best example is probably Dirk and the Mavs. They've been a playoff contender most years, but other than a couple of years during Dirk's career he's never really had a great shot at a championship. He could have gone elsewhere in that time and Cuban could have traded him to get a rebuild going but they wanted to stay together out of loyalty.
easy to take less money when your wife doubles your salary
Oh give me a break. Was Phil Jackson the 2nd best coach when he was hired? He became the 2nd best coach by winning championships with Jordan and the Bulls. He replaced a highly regarded coach in Doug Collins. Michael Jordan won the NBA championship in his 8th year, LeBron bolted in his 8th year. LeBron James had more ECF finals and NBA finals appearances under his belt heading into year 8 than Michael Jordan. Did Jordan have Pippen? yup, but Jordan wasn't pushing for the Bulls to trade for over paid players like Larry Hughes, over the hill Shaq, and just getting past his prime Antwan Jamison tying up cap space and taking them out of the running for an actual star to put next to LeBron.
Yes, this is true. But it would also have been easy for Lebron (or others similar to him) to take less money considering his endorsement deals double his salary.
Brady and Lebron both have loyalty. One is to his team, and the other is to himself though. To each their own.
And I'm pretty sure NOBODY here disagrees with this sentiment. But you also painted James and Durrant as less loyal than Duncan without acknowledging the differences in their situations. I think this is where people have a problem with your original post.
CC
My contribution is more in the bedroom area which she appreciates after the guys she met at the college she attended lol
Not my thinking at all. I admire Duncan for staying in college for 4 years. The same way I admire Psycho T. I don't think any less or consider the guys you mentioned disloyal.
she said you make up a neat bed and pick up your clothes and your snoring is tolerable , those are all admirable contributions.
Contribute to the bed room by purchasing one of those new Trump Beds, it is an over sized king with a wall in the middle, they (wives) say its GREAAAAAAT!!!! Women love it, they say the best thing about it is HE pays for it! LOL
In my opinion, loyalty in the NBA started waning when Wilt left the 76ers for the Lakers, the original "dream" team of West, Goodrich, Baylor, and Chamberlain. I believe they won one championship. Contrast their results with the loyalist Celtics of Cousy, Russell, Jones, et al.
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