Luke at the 5?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Listening to a podcast on another site and both of the guests penciled in Luke at the 5, with Garrison Brooks at PF.

This is for the starting lineup to start the season.

I'm having trouble seeing Luke as center. He is heavier and more experienced than Garrison, so there's that. And we are talking about early in the season. So maybe it makes sense for the first few games.

They both also had Berry and Theo as starters.

One had Cam as his other starter, the other had Kenny.

In other words, not a small ball lineup and only 1 opening in dispute.

I agree with the lineup that has Cam starting, but you never know. If Kenny wasn't coming off injury, I'd give him a better shot at starting. But I don't think so now - unless Roy just thinks it's better to have an experienced guy in the game at tip-off and then brings in Cam pretty quickly.

Roy seems quite comfortable starting 1 freshman, less so starting 2. Garrison is 1. Cam isn't a freshman, but he isn't experienced in our system, so he's a freshman in that limited sense. But I'm guessing he starts.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

At another point in the podcast they were asked to pick their "surprise player."

One picked Huff, the other Robinson.

They didn't pick Jalek because neither thought that would be a surprise.

I was thinking Robinson.

Both of them spoke highly of Huffman. One of them went so far as to say he expected good minutes from Huff - producing 6 points and 6 rebounds - by the end of the season. He thought it might be critical for the team for that to happen.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

One of them thought Luke would pull down double digit rebounds. The other thought 7 or 8.

Hard to imagine Luke grabbing more rebounds than Kennedy.

 

[BillyL]

What site was it you were you listening to . . ?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What site was it you were you listening to . . ?

I see so many comments about not linking other sites, I'm not sure I'm allowed to say. But if I am, here's the link (if not, give me a quick comment and I'll edit it out).

[deleted]

 

[Ozheelfan]

I believe it's semantics... Roy has been known to go with two post players without a true definition of "4" or "5".
Most observers believe Luke and Brookes will start, with both playing high and low post as needed.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I believe it's semantics... Roy has been known to go with two post players without a true definition of "4" or "5".
Most observers believe Luke and Brookes will start, with both playing high and low post as needed.

I can see that.

 

[pln2013]

When Luke plays alongside Manley or Huffman, he'll guard the quicker big (or wing, if necessary).

When Luke plays alongside Brooks or a wing, he'll guard the slower big.

Luke is probably our strongest player. He won't be much of a presence at the rim because his wingspan is like 5 feet, but he'll work hard to keep opposing bigs away from the rim.

 

[UNC&ME]

remember not every college team has a low post dominant old fashioned center...Luke is excellent at position defense-other players will help once pass deliver to the post/maybe double team if warranted..hey, haven't played exhibition so-premature, no worries..but its good to see how eveyone reacts..situational basketball....fans panic more than coaches at this point

 

[gary-7]

Listening to a podcast on another site and both of the guests penciled in Luke at the 5, with Garrison Brooks at PF.

This is for the starting lineup to start the season.

I'm having trouble seeing Luke as center. He is heavier and more experienced than Garrison, so there's that. And we are talking about early in the season. So maybe it makes sense for the first few games.

They both also had Berry and Theo as starters.

One had Cam as his other starter, the other had Kenny.

In other words, not a small ball lineup and only 1 opening in dispute.

I agree with the lineup that has Cam starting, but you never know. If Kenny wasn't coming off injury, I'd give him a better shot at starting. But I don't think so now - unless Roy just thinks it's better to have an experienced guy in the game at tip-off and then brings in Cam pretty quickly.

Roy seems quite comfortable starting 1 freshman, less so starting 2. Garrison is 1. Cam isn't a freshman, but he isn't experienced in our system, so he's a freshman in that limited sense. But I'm guessing he starts.

Barring injury there are 3 sure starters.
JB, Theo and Luke. The other 2 will depend on how Roy decides to configure --- normal or "small".

 

[al would]

A lot of the decisions about who gets pt will be determined about who the opponent is, especially early on .. you can bet the frosh will get more time early on than later unless someone breaks out. jmho

 

[Archer2]

My starting five, regardless of who we're playing, would be:
Joel
Theo
Cam
Luke
Garrison

Then I would sub according to who we're playing. BTW, when's the last time we only had 2 Mickey D's on our team?

 

[DSouthr]

My starting five, regardless of who we're playing, would be:
Joel
Theo
Cam
Luke
Garrison

Then I would sub according to who we're playing. BTW, when's the last time we only had 2 Mickey D's on our team?

Not a bad line up but I am putting Jalek in at the 2 and bring Cam in off the bench and I would have Brooks as Brooks/Huff.

 

[gary-7]

Not a bad line up but I am putting Jalek in at the 2 and bring Cam in off the bench and I would have Brooks as Brooks/Huff.

Huff ain't likely to start, Dave. I know you like him, but... he's still a bit of a train-wreck out there from what I've been told. But hey, who knows down the road?... he's a raw athlete and guys like that can mprove in chunks. I also would lay odds Jalek ain't starting. He only has a few weeks to show a lot more defense, and I suspect Roy has in mind working him a lot at the 1, as well as 2.

 

[Archer2]

I like Jalek leading Brandon, Kenny, Seventh, and Huff off the bench. Not necessarily as a blue team, although we might see some of that, but I think those are our 10 best players right now.

 

[gauchoheel]

My starting five, regardless of who we're playing, would be:
Joel
Theo
Cam
Luke
Garrison

Then I would sub according to who we're playing. BTW, when's the last time we only had 2 Mickey D's on our team?

I like this lineup, though I would also like to see some experimentation with Joel, Theo, Cam, Luke, Jalek/Kenny/B-Rob. If that lineup could defend well enough they'd be nasty. I know Luke is not really a 5 on defense, but basketball is much less post-up heavy than it once was. We could pick our spots with that lineup and run guys off the floor.

 

[Steat]

I see so many comments about not linking other sites, I'm not sure I'm allowed to say. But if I am, here's the link (if not, give me a quick comment and I'll edit it out).

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/insidecarolina/2017/10/18/greg-and-ross-talk-carolina-basketball-17-18

Please delete the link. There are 3 snitches (well known regular posters) on this site. Please don't link anything from Inside Carolina, which is a competitor of Tarheel Illustrated.

 

[RP12]

One of them thought Luke would pull down double digit rebounds. The other thought 7 or 8.

Hard to imagine Luke grabbing more rebounds than Kennedy.

I wouldn't be surprised by double digits from Luke because he clearly has a knack and he won't be playing with such strong rebounders for a portion of his time. Figuring Cam<JJ maybe and frosh<Meeks.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Please delete the link. There are 3 snitches (well known regular posters) on this site. Please don't link anything from Inside Carolina, which is a competitor of Tarheel Illustrated.

Done.

I'm not sure I understand why people object, though. I mean if posters see interesting info on IC, ESPN or the Duke board and come here to discuss it - with links to let others check what's being reported - isn't that a good thing? Because we are discussing it here? Sure, it gives IC some clicks, but it gives us more clicks, too.

What am I missing?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Not a bad line up but I am putting Jalek in at the 2 and bring Cam in off the bench and I would have Brooks as Brooks/Huff.

While I think Cam is the better player today, I like him coming off the bench as well because we're going to need scoring as well as leadership with the second unit. Jalek can take care of the scoring part, but he doesn't offer the leadership part at this time. Cam, while he probably didn't think he'd be coming off the bench, could be utilized in that way.

With that said, I'm pretty sure Roy will be starting Cam.

 

[Steat]

Done.

I'm not sure I understand why people object, though. I mean if posters see interesting info on IC, ESPN or the Duke board and come here to discuss it - with links to let others check what's being reported - isn't that a good thing? Because we are discussing it here? Sure, it gives IC some clicks, but it gives us more clicks, too.

What am I missing?

This has been debated at least a couple of times on this board over the last several weeks. You may be able to find the two threads through the search feature on the board if they have not been deleted. Bottom line, the owner of the site has made it very clear not to post any links from Inside Carolina. There are three snitchers on this site that will backstab you before you can blink an eye. Trust me, it's not worth it.

 

[bax4444]

I heard the podcast. Also some talk about sliding berry to the 2 for stretches. Sounds like Manley is well behind the other two bigs.

 

[gary-7]

This has been debated at least a couple of times on this board over the last several weeks. You may be able to find the two threads through the search feature on the board if they have not been deleted. Bottom line, the owner of the site has made it very clear not to post any links from Inside Carolina. There are three snitchers on this site that will backstab you before you can blink an eye. Trust me, it's not worth it.

"snitches get stitches"?

 

[DSouthr]

Huff ain't likely to start, Dave. I know you like him, but... he's still a bit of a train-wreck out there from what I've been told. But hey, who knows down the road?... he's a raw athlete and guys like that can mprove in chunks. I also would lay odds Jalek ain't starting. He only has a few weeks to show a lot more defense, and I suspect Roy has in mind working him a lot at the 1, as well as 2.

IMO, all 4 of our frosh bigs bring some good to the table and some really needs improving, I do think Brooks is the more advanced and think he starts. Problem with Brooks is I see him more as a true 4 than a 5 and honestly I see Luke as a 4 and not a 5. I don't think Manley will be ready to give us more than spot or mop minutes, and Walker is IMO about a yr away from being productive (thou I may be higher on him than most, love a long kid with a jump shot).

Kinda by default, in big lineups that Roy prefers, Huff is going to get solid PT. Of course Roy loves his guys to be able to score but you better defend and rebound, especially if you are a big to get PT for Roy. Huff is IMO our most physically imposing big man and the kid plays hard, plays with a good motor, it may not be pretty but it is physical. I also like a big man that looks to dunk anything in close, just flush it, get it in close and attack that rim, over or thru folks if ya have to but attack it, that is what Huff does, it may for now be all he does, refinement will come. IMO, Brooks is more a finesse guy where Huff is the more throw it down your throat guy and there are advantages both ways.

This thread got side tracked a bit so I had to recheck to make sure this was supposed to be about Luke at the 5. Personally, I just do not like the notion of Luke at the 5, kind of the popular notion when we go small ball. Luke does not have the length, reach, or vertical explosion to make me comfortable. I am less than confident with him as our starting 4, just being honest, not a slap at the kid, love him athletically he is limited by ACC standards, skill wise and basketball IQ he is stellar. Meeks was that really strong determined wide body that carved out room and used his strength and width to hold defenders out, I don't see Luke doing that, hope I am wrong.

 

[Spacegrass]

While Luke at 5 has it's negatives , I think the positives out weigh them. His ability to pull guys away and open up driving lanes for guys like Berry , Theo , and Felton will help them maximize their opportunities offensively.

 

[Spacegrass]

Keep in mind yes Roy wants the "W". But Roy wants to win 98-83 , rather than 65-61. Smallish more versatile guys play to the uptempo style Roy loves. Plus defensive versatility is often better with a smaller lineup. Rebounding is really the only big question? But really think , how many teams are bigger than UNC even when they go small? Maybe a dozen a year , so I don't think smaller is a detriment that others think simply due to Roy's system.

 

[WhitePhantoms]

While Luke at 5 has it's negatives , I think the positives out weigh them. His ability to pull guys away and open up driving lanes for guys like Berry , Theo , and Felton will help them maximize their opportunities offensively.

It would also have him typically guarding the lesser athletic big

 

[Spacegrass]

It would also have him typically guarding the lesser athletic big

Issue is gonna be when he has to guard a guy like Bagley , but who really can? I actually think he could guard Marcus Bolden or Wendell Carter. Bigger guys but neither are significantly more athletic or explosive.

 

[pln2013]

Issue is gonna be when he has to guard a guy like Bagley , but who really can? I actually think he could guard Marcus Bolden or Wendell Carter. Bigger guys but neither are significantly more athletic or explosive.

Bagley will be Theo's problem, I think.

 

[gary-7]

IMO, all 4 of our frosh bigs bring some good to the table and some really needs improving, I do think Brooks is the more advanced and think he starts. Problem with Brooks is I see him more as a true 4 than a 5 and honestly I see Luke as a 4 and not a 5. I don't think Manley will be ready to give us more than spot or mop minutes, and Walker is IMO about a yr away from being productive (thou I may be higher on him than most, love a long kid with a jump shot).

Kinda by default, in big lineups that Roy prefers, Huff is going to get solid PT. Of course Roy loves his guys to be able to score but you better defend and rebound, especially if you are a big to get PT for Roy. Huff is IMO our most physically imposing big man and the kid plays hard, plays with a good motor, it may not be pretty but it is physical. I also like a big man that looks to dunk anything in close, just flush it, get it in close and attack that rim, over or thru folks if ya have to but attack it, that is what Huff does, it may for now be all he does, refinement will come. IMO, Brooks is more a finesse guy where Huff is the more throw it down your throat guy and there are advantages both ways.

This thread got side tracked a bit so I had to recheck to make sure this was supposed to be about Luke at the 5. Personally, I just do not like the notion of Luke at the 5, kind of the popular notion when we go small ball. Luke does not have the length, reach, or vertical explosion to make me comfortable. I am less than confident with him as our starting 4, just being honest, not a slap at the kid, love him athletically he is limited by ACC standards, skill wise and basketball IQ he is stellar. Meeks was that really strong determined wide body that carved out room and used his strength and width to hold defenders out, I don't see Luke doing that, hope I am wrong.

That's all fair, but as some have pointed out there are many top teams these days without a traditional Post Big. Mostly, with a small lineup we lose our normal inside advantage, and we start looking like a bigger ND. That being said, when you meet up against a Gonzaga or UVA who always have some beef up front, or against a team that has a lot of raw athletes up front, the rebounding issues emerge. In other words, yes, we're gonna have to get solid minutes out of the pups.

Also, you are correct that Garrison is a natural 4. He even has potential Stretch abilities as he refines his game. And he's not really much taller than Luke and Cam. Huff is a hair taller but more physical... Walker is taller but still too scrawny to bang... Manley is a legit 6'11+ and coordinated but still not able to be as mobile as needed.

 

[gary-7]

Bagley will be Theo's problem, I think.

We do have a lot of versatility in match-ups because of Theo.

 

[RHFD]

I just hope that Luke does not get in foul trouble fast.

 

[UNCFan2012]

One solution to the rebounding problem when we play small is to have Seventh on the floor. He's an outstanding rebounder for a guard. Plus, the lane will be completely open if he wants to drive.

Something like

Berry
Seventh
Cam
Theo
Luke

Put Seventh on their PG on defense and that could be a very potent lineup offensively and defensively.

 

[gary-7]

One solution to the rebounding problem when we play small is to have Seventh on the floor. He's an outstanding rebounder for a guard. Plus, the lane will be completely open if he wants to drive.

Something like

Berry
Seventh
Cam
Theo
Luke

Put Seventh on their PG on defense and that could be a very potent lineup offensively and defensively.

Why in the world would you have 7th guarding the opposing PG in that lineup?

 

[alabamaheel]

Issue is gonna be when he has to guard a guy like Bagley , but who really can? I actually think he could guard Marcus Bolden or Wendell Carter. Bigger guys but neither are significantly more athletic or explosive.

Come on Space get with the program! We all know Bagley is gonna be shooting half court shots, fade away threes, and walking on water. Luke won't have to match up with him....

 

[Ozheelfan]

..... I actually think he could guard Marcus Bolden or Wendell Carter. ......

How's he going to guard Bolden? Sit next to him on the dook bench?

 

[gary-7]

How's he going to guard Bolden? Sit next to him on the dook bench?

Ouch.

 

[WhitePhantoms]

Issue is gonna be when he has to guard a guy like Bagley , but who really can? I actually think he could guard Marcus Bolden or Wendell Carter. Bigger guys but neither are significantly more athletic or explosive.

Like pln suggested I think Theo should be the one defending him majority of the time. But chances are Duke plays a lot of 2 bigs this year so put Luke on whoever the other big is and Theo gets him majority of the time with Brooks and Huffman getting the rest. I would then tell Huffman to rough him up and try to take him out of his game.

 

[UNCFan2012]

Why in the world would you have 7th guarding the opposing PG in that lineup?

Because guarding PGs is a big part of what Seventh brings to any lineup. Plus it allows Joel to save energy for offense.

 

[gary-7]

Because guarding PGs is a big part of what Seventh brings to any lineup. Plus it allows Joel to save energy for offense.

Honestly he hasn't shown that yet --- last season was, at best, an adventure in that aspect. That being said, he is at least a willing defender. Hopefully his technique will catch up with that willingness with a season under his belt.

I too think 7th is best suited for playing the 2 and hope he gets minutes in tandem with Joel. And if/when that happens they could certainly be flexible in defensive assignments, with the cautionary caveat that JB's relentless dogging of opposing PGs is awfully had to replicate.