Luke at the 5?
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
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Seventh's contributions on defense will at least equal his contributions on offense, IMO. He guarded Joel as well in a vodeo I saw as he was guarded all year. His lateral quickness is exceptional.
If I am Seventh, I distinguish myself this year with my defense, not my offense. Play suffocating defense, use your explosiveness to attack on offense when the occasion arises, and minimize your TO's. That is the formula for gaining playing time. He can be a very, very special player, very few possess his natural abilities, he simply needs to rein them in a bit.
If I am Seventh, I distinguish myself this year with my defense, not my offense. Play suffocating defense, use your explosiveness to attack on offense when the occasion arises, and minimize your TO's. That is the formula for gaining playing time. He can be a very, very special player, very few possess his natural abilities, he simply needs to rein them in a bit.
You're absolutely right he should dedicate himself to defense. That is indeed a path to PT in a crowded backcourt. And he has the ability to be a good defender.
That being said, I'm still scratching my head at some of the perceptions of his scrimmage perfomance (hell, just to be sure I wasn't missing anything I went back and rewatched concentrating on just that). On the positive end 7th absolutely showed better footwork and kept his balance --- something he struggled badly with last season. But as for defending JB? Well, he was solid but there was no special impediment thrown up. Joel got good looks when he wanted them and put the ball in all the right places as he always does (with our old bugaboo of multiple blown assists rearing its head). Now, that's nothing bad on 7th. JB is gonna be JB.
Your posts on Luke are predictable, if nothing else. We know you love him, because you always tell us right after putting him down yet again.
I'd hate to see how you felt about a player you don't "love".Your posts on Luke are predictable, if nothing else. We know you love him, because you always tell us right after putting him down yet again.
Believe what ever you want, I chose to not place unreasonable expectations on kids, I am not predictable when I do that, I am consistent when it do that.
If Luke does play the 5 then is he gonna still me allowed to pop out to the perimeter? Ive never seen a 5 in Roy's offense allowed to ever really come out to the perimeter because we'll lose rebounds. But then Luke's game will be somewhat handcuffed. And for all the raving Roy did during the postseason sbout wanting more stretch 4s like Luke because he was so happy with him last year, I just can't see Roy playing Luke at the 5 (except for maybe a few minutes). And I deff don't see Luke playing the 5 when Brooks is in the game, even tho from the limited times I've seen him, he looks like a 4 to me. But Roy has already had a bunch of practices with them and would know better then me.
Also in regards to Cam possibly not starting, I wouldn't like that at all. Yes I have no idea how good his defense and rebounding will be for us but hes our best perimeter shooter on the team. I can understand Jalek not starting until he starts playing D with more effort but a 4th year 6'8 proven elite 3 point shooter who has the ability to drive not starting would shock me. Even though Kenny Williams is our best on ball/perimeter defender, until he can show that he can score and not be so inconsistent with his shot along with proving he can create his own shot, I think with him and pinson starting together it would put too much pressure on Berry to make sure we are scoring consistently.
But this is why Roy is a HOF, I trust he'll do what's best and hopefully not get too stubborn if v something isn't working...
Also in regards to Cam possibly not starting, I wouldn't like that at all. Yes I have no idea how good his defense and rebounding will be for us but hes our best perimeter shooter on the team. I can understand Jalek not starting until he starts playing D with more effort but a 4th year 6'8 proven elite 3 point shooter who has the ability to drive not starting would shock me. Even though Kenny Williams is our best on ball/perimeter defender, until he can show that he can score and not be so inconsistent with his shot along with proving he can create his own shot, I think with him and pinson starting together it would put too much pressure on Berry to make sure we are scoring consistently.
But this is why Roy is a HOF, I trust he'll do what's best and hopefully not get too stubborn if v something isn't working...
The predictable part is you always saying you love him right after you put him down. So, not trusting him at the 4 or 5 is just tampering expectations? Your feelings on him are pretty clear. Saying you love him after you say negative things about his game doesn't make that more palatable.
I guess I'm just burned out on people bashing Luke on these boards. Some even go as far as to recommend starting a freshman, any freshman, over him. The players seem to think those who are questioning him will be surprised this year. How about we at least see how he plays in a few games, before continuing to criticize his game? The Luke bashing makes no more sense than the Kennedy bashing did. Where's the loyalty? With fans like that.......
I've been thinking the same thing, when people predict Garrison starting at the 4 & Luke at the 5. It seems to me that you lose any advantage Luke has, if he plays center. I haven't really seen Brooks play, other than a few videos, but I doubt his shot is a good as Luke's at this time. It doesn't appear he would be able to fill the stretch 4 role as well at this point in his career. Although, scrimmages don't mean much, Garrisons' rebounding against Memphis sounds promising. It seems to me Luke needs to be able to extend his game away from the basket to maximize his talent & Garrison would help us more around the basket. Then again, I haven't actually seen them play this year, so what do I know?
Roy being Roy means he'll tinker with the lineup a lot. Both guys will probably see plenty of minutes at both positions, until we get into ACC play. By that time, Roy will have figured out the best lineup for maximum performance & may still play them at both positions some. I'm glad it's his decision to make not ours.As far as Cam vs. Kenny. I hope Cam's defense will match his offense & Kenny is shooting better than last season to make the decision even harder.
A quick check shows Luke at 5.1 fouls per 40 minutes last season. Second worst among scholarship players and only slightly better than Isaiah at 5.2.
If I'm an opposing coach, I may well want to run plays to see if I can get him in trouble.
Which is to say that although it's reasonable to expect Luke to control his fouling better as a starter, it's also reasonable to think he will be under more pressure to foul.
Based on the little we've seen so far, the ideal lineup would have Luke and Garrison splitting all the PF minutes and others handling the 5.I've been thinking the same thing, when people predict Garrison starting at the 4 & Luke at the 5. It seems to me that you lose any advantage Luke has, if he plays center. I haven't really seen Brooks play, other than a few videos, but I doubt his shot is a good as Luke's at this time. It doesn't appear he would be able to fill the stretch 4 role as well at this point in his career. Although, scrimmages don't mean much, Garrisons' rebounding against Memphis sounds promising. It seems to me Luke needs to be able to extend his game away from the basket to maximize his talent & Garrison would help us more around the basket. Then again, I haven't actually seen them play this year, so what do I know?
As far as Cam vs. Kenny. I hope Cam's defense will match his offense & Kenny is shooting better than last season to make the decision even harder.
The problem with that is that although Luke and Garrison look capable of handling 40 minutes at PF, it's not clear we have other guys who can give anything close to 40 minutes at center.
In a perfect world, I'm with you. Unfortunately, it's not sounding like that will be a possibility. I expect Theo to have to play some 4. Luke &/or Garrison will need to play some 5, even if they don't start there. I also expect to see them play together quite a bit. I hope Huff & Manley shock the world though & all my expectations are wrong.
I can't wait to find out.Yet another reason people predicting he will start at the 5 doesn't make sense to me.
I would think that Maye plays the stretch 4 on offense with Brooks in the game, but Maye might have to defend opposing centers if Brooks at 6-9/215 is not able to guard certain centers.
Exactly what negative thing have I said about his game, oh I know, I have not! What, you don't like my saying I am less than comfortable with Luke as our starting 4 than I was guys like Brice and Hicks? I have watched Luke for 2yrs and like it or not the kid is not a great in terms of athleticism. He is not long nor is he explosive, really if you think he is then you need to see what a real athlete is able to do. Luke has 2 very solid attributes and I have talked about both A LOT! He has a great basketball IQ, understands the game and how to position himself for his maximum effectiveness (which really helps him as a re-bounder for example) and he has a solid shot for a 4.
You talk about me tampering expectations for the kid when I prefer folks to stop with comparing him to Larry freakin Bird, is that the kind of expectations you want the kid to have to live up to? Clearly my wanting lower expectations of him to be set is a hell of a lot more fair to the kid that having folks think he is on par with one of the greatest players to ever lace em up. But you keep on pushing that BS and when he can't live up to that just know, you will have zero right to be critical of him because the problem is not with what the kid can do, it is more you expecting something he can not deliver on.
You really need to understand the difference between bashing a kid and offering critique of a kid, I do not bash Tar Heel players but I and every other poster, every other Tar Heel fan critiques them. I do no t6like being accused of something I have not done!
I always assumed you're better & more mature than that, so I'm going to ignore this as a minor lapse.
Exactly what negative thing have I said about his game, oh I know, I have not! What, you don't like my saying I am less than comfortable with Luke as our starting 4 than I was guys like Brice and Hicks? I have watched Luke for 2yrs and like it or not the kid is not a great in terms of athleticism. He is not long nor is he explosive, really if you think he is then you need to see what a real athlete is able to do. Luke has 2 very solid attributes and I have talked about both A LOT! He has a great basketball IQ, understands the game and how to position himself for his maximum effectiveness (which really helps him as a re-bounder for example) and he has a solid shot for a 4.
You talk about me tampering expectations for the kid when I prefer folks to stop with comparing him to Larry freakin Bird, is that the kind of expectations you want the kid to have to live up to? Clearly my wanting lower expectations of him to be set is a hell of a lot more fair to the kid that having folks think he is on par with one of the greatest players to ever lace em up. But you keep on pushing that BS and when he can't live up to that just know, you will have zero right to be critical of him because the problem is not with what the kid can do, it is more you expecting something he can not deliver on.
You really need to understand the difference between bashing a kid and offering critique of a kid, I do not bash Tar Heel players but I and every other poster, every other Tar Heel fan critiques them. I do no t6like being accused of something I have not done!
I really don't want to get into a back & forth argument or I could find more than one post where you have posted negatives about Luke. If it didn't stand out to me so much, I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. As you can see, I mostly read & don't post a lot here. I had just seen you post negatives about Luke & follow them by saying you love him so many times that the most recent post made me laugh. I couldn't help but mention it. It also surprised me that it was coming from you, because I often agree with your comments.
I thought everyone realized the Luke 'Bird' Maye nickname was a joke. I don't think anyone really thinks he's as good as Larry Bird. I do have more confidence in him than you apparently do & that's okay. The good news is your expectations seem to be so low that he has a good chance of surprising you. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
Obviously, one persons "critiquing" is another's bashing. To me, saying his game is better suited for the 4 than the 5 & explaining why you feel that way is critiquing his game. So, you don't think saying you don't trust him at the 4 or 5 is disparaging his game?
Again, I'm not interested in a silly back & forth. In most situations, we agree. After I stopped laughing at you consistently saying negatives followed by your professed love for Luke, I decided to reply to your post in case you cared that your apparent lack of faith in him is obvious to some. I thought you may want to dial it down it a bit, because you don't usually post mostly negatives about our players. If you want to continue to "critique" his game the way you have been, continue on. I'll just laugh to myself next time.
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I always assumed you're better & more mature than that, so I'm going to ignore this as a minor lapse.
I really don't want to get into a back & forth argument or I could find more than one post where you have posted negatives about Luke. If it didn't stand out to me so much, I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. As you can see, I mostly read & don't post a lot here. I had just seen you post negatives about Luke & follow them by saying you love him so many times that the most recent post made me laugh. I couldn't help but mention it. It also surprised me that it was coming from you, because I often agree with your comments.
I thought everyone realized the Luke 'Bird' Maye nickname was a joke. I don't think anyone really thinks he's as good as Larry Bird. I do have more confidence in him than you apparently do & that's okay. The good news is your expectations seem to be so low that he has a good chance of surprising you. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
Obviously, one persons "critiquing" is another's bashing. To me, saying his game is better suited for the 4 than the 5 & explaining why you feel that way is critiquing his game. So, you don't think saying you don't trust him at the 4 or 5 is disparaging his game?
Again, I'm not interested in a silly back & forth. In most situations, we agree. After I stopped laughing at you consistently saying negatives followed by your professed love for Luke, I decided to reply to your post in case you cared that your apparent lack of faith in him is obvious to some. I thought you may want to dial it down it a bit, because you don't usually post mostly negatives about our players. If you want to continue to "critique" his game the way you have been, continue on. I'll just laugh to myself next time.
I didn't realize we had to abide by a certain standard in critiquing our players and/or coaches. I even moreso didn't realize that you are the one that gets to set that standard. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for enlightening us to that very important information. So can we post and then get your approval/disapproval or should we submit posts to you for approval before we let the rest of the uninformed, ignorant posters see our OPINIONS??
Such a nice response.
Talk about blowing something way out of proportion. Obviously, I don't take posts here as seriously as some of you do. It's not something I'm going to get angry over.
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I always assumed you're better & more mature than that, so I'm going to ignore this as a minor lapse.
I really don't want to get into a back & forth argument or I could find more than one post where you have posted negatives about Luke. If it didn't stand out to me so much, I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. As you can see, I mostly read & don't post a lot here. I had just seen you post negatives about Luke & follow them by saying you love him so many times that the most recent post made me laugh. I couldn't help but mention it. It also surprised me that it was coming from you, because I often agree with your comments.
I thought everyone realized the Luke 'Bird' Maye nickname was a joke. I don't think anyone really thinks he's as good as Larry Bird. I do have more confidence in him than you apparently do & that's okay. The good news is your expectations seem to be so low that he has a good chance of surprising you. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
Obviously, one persons "critiquing" is another's bashing. To me, saying his game is better suited for the 4 than the 5 & explaining why you feel that way is critiquing his game. So, you don't think saying you don't trust him at the 4 or 5 is disparaging his game?
Again, I'm not interested in a silly back & forth. In most situations, we agree. After I stopped laughing at you consistently saying negatives followed by your professed love for Luke, I decided to reply to your post in case you cared that your apparent lack of faith in him is obvious to some. I thought you may want to dial it down it a bit, because you don't usually post mostly negatives about our players. If you want to continue to "critique" his game the way you have been, continue on. I'll just laugh to myself next time.
Again, I was not bashing the kid, I was simply stating the obvious or what should be obvious, that I am concerned with his lack of athleticism and length as compared to most of our power forwards of the past. Luke exceeded expectations last season and no one is happier that he did than I and I hope he exceeds reasonable expectations yet again. But his role this coming season changes big time if our frosh bigs do not step way up and yeah that concerns me. No, I am not nearly as confident as I was last season this time when we had Meeks and Hicks starting and Tony/Luke coming off the bench.
It isn't faith I base critique on, it is what I see and have seen and in Luke my concern is not that he does not maximize every ounce of his ability, it is simply that his ability is limited. When or if I bash a player it will be because the kid has IMO the ability but does not use it. Luke is a kid that gets as much out of his ability and maybe even more that I/we should reasonably expect and you darn right I love a kid doing that. But I have not seen him finish strong inside thru contact like T-50, I have not seen him finish over long front court guys like Henson did, I have not seen that ultra quick leaping ability of Brice, or the over all athleticism of Hicks. So I am not trusting that I will see that this season and I think it to be a reasonable position.
At the end of the day Luke is 6'7" with average at best reach and is not a quick or explosive leaper, not a guy you really want putting the ball on the floor for drives. He is a good basketball IQ, catch and shoot guy that does a great job of positioning himself on both ends of the court that does not try to play outside of his skill set. Ask any scout and tell me if they disagree with me and yet you accuse me of bashing and no, I do not like nor appreciate it. If you do not want a silly back & forth then I suggest next time you ask me to explain why something concerns me rather than accuse me of bashing as kid.
I always assumed you're better & more mature than that, so I'm going to ignore this as a minor lapse.
I really don't want to get into a back & forth argument or I could find more than one post where you have posted negatives about Luke. If it didn't stand out to me so much, I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. As you can see, I mostly read & don't post a lot here. I had just seen you post negatives about Luke & follow them by saying you love him so many times that the most recent post made me laugh. I couldn't help but mention it. It also surprised me that it was coming from you, because I often agree with your comments.
I thought everyone realized the Luke 'Bird' Maye nickname was a joke. I don't think anyone really thinks he's as good as Larry Bird. I do have more confidence in him than you apparently do & that's okay. The good news is your expectations seem to be so low that he has a good chance of surprising you. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
Obviously, one persons "critiquing" is another's bashing. To me, saying his game is better suited for the 4 than the 5 & explaining why you feel that way is critiquing his game. So, you don't think saying you don't trust him at the 4 or 5 is disparaging his game?
Again, I'm not interested in a silly back & forth. In most situations, we agree. After I stopped laughing at you consistently saying negatives followed by your professed love for Luke, I decided to reply to your post in case you cared that your apparent lack of faith in him is obvious to some. I thought you may want to dial it down it a bit, because you don't usually post mostly negatives about our players. If you want to continue to "critique" his game the way you have been, continue on. I'll just laugh to myself next time.
ooops, I forgot to address the "minor lapse" statement!
"Yet another reason people predicting he will start at the 5 doesn't make sense to me."
"I always assumed you're better & more mature than that, so I'm going to ignore this as a minor lapse."
I would have thought, had you known enough to accuse me of bashing Luke that maybe you had an understanding of how the system we run under Roy works? Specifically the fact that our 4s and 5s exchange a ton, that our 4s end up playing a lot of 5 and visa versa? That is why you saw Meeks and Tony struggle outside the paint defending.
And yet your words "Yet another reason people predicting he will start at the 5 doesn't make sense to me." and you find it my bashing the kid when I say I am not greatly confident with him as our starting 4 and yet our 4s and 5s exchange on a regular basis? You can't have it both ways, I didn't say he couldn't play the 5, I said I am not real confident in his playing the 5, you said it does not make sense for people to suggest he as our starting 5. And yet I am bashing the kid and for some reason you are not? Again, you just do not get to have it both ways, agree with the kids limitations only when it suits your narrative and accuse me of bashing the kid when I do not agree with you.
You're not telling me anything about Luke that I don't know. I'm sure the large majority of people already know everything you said in the post above this one. All you have to do is watch him play to pick up on those things. I guess I just have more confidence in him being able to continue to improve his game than you do. I don't think he's maxed out his potential. He definitely could stand to build more muscle to bang underneath. If he needs to do that to succeed, I have no doubt he'll work hard at it. If not, I'm not going to get on here & talk about nothing but negatives describing his game. The same goes for the other players.
I don't feel a need to show everyone how much I know about basketball. I come here to keep up with the latest news & support our team not flex my "basketball knowledge" muscle. Honestly, some of the best members here can also be the most ridiculous at times. This board is for discussing a game. I don't think anyone here is a paid NBA scout or college recruiter. (If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.) It doesn't need to be so serious & people don't need to get so upset when they're questioned. I realize you know a lot about basketball. I respect that. Many others do also. Nobody knows everything, which is proven here often.
I've been watching Roy coach at Carolina, since day one. In those years, he has been forced to adapt to his players at times. Luke's game isn't like Isaiah's. Trying to force him to play the same way would only hurt Luke & the team. Roy is smart enough to realize that & will maximize Luke's talent. He may be stubborn at first, but he always adjusts to fit the players strengths.
When I responded with "Yet another reason people predicting he will start at the 5 doesn't make sense to me.", I was responding to a post about Luke possibly getting in more foul trouble at the 5. I was agreeing that we need Luke to stay out of foul trouble, so he can spend more time on the floor. How is that saying anything negative about Luke?
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