I’ve seen this reasoning in several other posts, and I don’t think it’s an apples to apples comparison. Mack had unlimited resources at an institution where football is a religion, and somehow went 30-21 in his final four seasons there, including a losing season. To put that in perspective, imagine Roy Williams suddenly averaging 17 or 18 wins a year, getting blown out by Duke regularly, and sweating it out on Selection Sunday to see if UNC even got a bid to the NIT. All of that with unlimited resources where basketball is a religion. That’s an apples to apples comparison.
Mack 2.0 - so far, a really bad dream
- Thread starter WoadBlue
- Start date
I’ve seen this reasoning in several other posts, and I don’t think it’s an apples to apples comparison. Mack had unlimited resources at an institution where football is a religion, and somehow went 30-21 in his final four seasons there, including a losing season. To put that in perspective, imagine Roy Williams suddenly averaging 17 or 18 wins a year, getting blown out by Duke regularly, and sweating it out on Selection Sunday to see if UNC even got a bid to the NIT. All of that with unlimited resources where basketball is a religion. That’s an apples to apples comparison.
i have ZERO confidence that satterfield would do any better than 6-6, 7-5, 7-5. None whatsoever. And fwiw those numbers would indeed show the program has at least stabilized and is competitive for the next man up.
Thanks for your unwanted opinion. Feel free to go back to pack pride.
And that has really been the idea behind whoever the new coach was going to be. It was to right the ship so we could get the guy who could get us to a spot where we could at least keep it competitive with teams like Clemson and get to a NY6 bowl once every 4-5 years. @andrew jones made a good point in one of his podcasts the other day when he compared Mack to a CEO you would bring in to help a company get out of bankruptcy. That's basically what the Mack hire is all about. Bring in a guy who can get the finances and company structure healthy, so it's ready to get back to a great company.
U went back 4 yrs to include his ONLY losing season there which btw was coming off a 12-1 year. His last three were 25-14 when the conf was arguably the best in the nation with multiple teams in top 10. Anyway the comparison was strictly by record. But to your point, coach smith and coach williams have had similar stretches of “mediocrity” by unc standards. From ‘12 -‘15 roy avg double digit losses and 25 wins.
that coin has two sides. yes, texas has great h.s. football, but look at the competition for those recruits -- football schools in his own conference and other conferences as well. baylor was going strong in texas, as was texas a&m, and several others. in n.c. mack will be recruiting against schools like ncsu, dook, ecu, wake, etc. i fully expect mack to be kicking some butt in the acc coastal.
Texas has always competed against those schools for recruits, going back to the old Southwest Conference. When Mack was on top of his game in the early 2000’s, he had the pick of the litter. Nebraska eventually ended up leaving the Big XII because they got tired of Texas pulling the strings. Hell, the Longhorns even got their own TV network in 2011 which was the final straw for Texas A&M, who bolted for the SEC. Even with this huge advantage, Mack’s skills started to decline to the point where Texas was no longer the preeminent program in the state, falling behind Baylor and TCU.
Satterfield wasn't wearing a tie at his press conference. I'm glad we didn't hire him.
Coaching skills (player development, preparation, in-game adjustments, motivation, etc.)
And that is the way to understand why the vast majority of Texas fans wanted him gone even before 2013 started.
During those years, I was on Texas boards several times per week. The reason was the talk that Texas was open to the ACC. That is something I knew - in fact, I think the first article length piece saying it was on the table was by me for Southern Pigskin. My take then was that Texas was close to ready to jettison the Big 12. Texas hoped to take 6 Big 12 schools to form a Pac 16. I said that A&M never would go Left Coast as long as the SEC or another Southern based Major conference offered - I said that Aggie would separate from Texas before going to conference based outside the South.
My solution was for Texas to bring Aggie to the ACC, perhaps with OU and Baylor.
Nobody left the Big 12 then, but when Texas decided to have the Longhorn network, Aggie went SEC. And for the whole time, including after 4 schools had left the Big 12, I spent time reading Texas boards, primarily to gauge any hints that Texas might be ready to leave a decayed Big 12.
And I read multiple posts against Mack. They outnumbered pro-Mack posts at least 4 to 1.
I think Sanford is the guy Mack has lit on for OC, at least as of late last week. Sanford would be a sound OC hire.
If Bateman is the DC he is now hottest after, it means Shoop has turned down Mack's smooth offer.
Bateman as DC gets the job done with old fashioned coaching: all emphasis in on player fundamentals, for the team unit as well as for each individual. Mack's focus is on amassing the most talent. Has Mack learned something, at least after the Greg Robinson fiasco? Or is he now desperate so that he is going after a guy with 0 P5 experience who does not fit his coaching emphases and lacks ties to him?
For Bateman to be successful in a DC job, he requires D position coaches who are his people, who can and will coach positions as he wants and needs them to. That works best when the coordinator helped pick coaches to be interviewed for the jobs and was on board with their being hired.
Fedora double handcuffed all his DCs with the way he ran his offense and the way he as HC oversaw the D. That alone makes the UNC DC job a tough sell to a proven top flight DC even with Fedora gone, because it means our D lacks depth and major talent. Mack ordering his DC to take 3 coaches makes the job an even tougher sell.
Supposedly Bateman is a top target of Ole Miss as well. If Ole Miss tells him he can pick the D position coaches, that could prove the deciding factor.
Think you can get reliable information from reading message boards? LOL!
oh, you mean the same skills that got his team into the national championship game twice, skills that he will bring to the table at unc, i'm quite sure. i see why you're so terrified that you feel a need to hang out on the unc message board.
Yes you can, when you do more than read and think superficially. That's how I was telling people by 2005 that the Big 12 was unstable and could face a major crisis because Nebraska fans were fuming about everything, with more than a few suggesting Nebraska should do something to show Texas who was the real boss of the the Big 8 plus 4 (which is how they saw the Big XII).
Fans online always, over time, represent the views of the boosters, in the same degree of intensity and in the same percentages. And major boosters matter immensely, determining things up to the point that administration steps in to advance academic and/or social status of the university or prevent such a loss.
The above, by the way, is the reason that even if 90% of Texas online fans were to covet the SEC, meaning the same rough % of boosters would want to be in the SEC, the UT administration would not allow the move unless there were no other viable Major/Power conference option.
I've been saying since the end of Fedora's 2nd season that he was going to fail at UNC. But I knew he wasn't going to be fired even after 2017 because my views were still a small minority online. After this year's fiasco at ECU, the online crowd began to catch up to me, very quickly, which all but certainly meant that the boosters also had caught up to me and knew Fedora must go.
i remember the exact day i lost all hope for larry. it was the pass oriented game plan in a hurricane. he had all week to think about it and elicit input from his assistants, but he stubbornly resisted any reality. trying to pass in those winds was so monumentally stupid that tech fans here is va were laughing the next day. i was sad because i knew right then we had a coach whose intellect and learning curve were inadequate for the acc.
If Mack is that nuts, his senility should have been caught by even the most naive interviewer.
Brewster is a recruiter and position coach. He is great at the former and very good at the latter. He should not be an OC, and any co-OC title that is more than honorary signals something wrong with the HC and staff. There is no reason to think of interviewing him for HC.
Brewster is an older, and more accomplished, version of Thigpen.
Okay so the debate is whether you go with the Hall of Fame Coach or someone who is a no name. A choice between the guy that led UNC to it's only elite status in football since the 1950s or someone who has never recruited NFL level prospects as a head coach. The only thing you guarantee when you hire a young coach is inexperience. It is time to move on to supporting our Coach and being patient. He has been successful everywhere he has been. This was the only name being considered for the UNC job that got my interest up. Truthfully UNC has been mediocre in football for so long that some top notch coordinators may pause. Hopefully Mack can sell somebody on it.
That was a game I watched while shrugging my shoulders and cursing while laughing. Passing that much in hurricane weather.
We owe VT something awful for the last 2 games.
I assume you do know that signing day is fast approaching. And that especially a coach in the Social Security age group seeming to have trouble securing an OC and DC who will be seen widely as good hires will make it that much harder to persuade recruits that this is going to work well.
Here is the angle that everybody will use against the Mack 2.0 regime in recruiting if he does not hit HRs in OC and DC hires: 'You do know that if people felt that Mack Brown could do a halfway decent job at his advanced age, that he'd have had several top coordinator candidates jockeying for those jobs, right?'
Graham Harrell has become a hot name that at least some Powers That Be think is the guy who will be hired as OC. He has done a very good job as OC under Seth Littrell at North Texas for 3 years. But that hire says only that Mack can take away an OC from UNT - which is a nobody, not even in the AAC - who has only had 3 years as an OC.
Harrell could turn out to be a great OC, but his resume so far is not nearly as impressive as Sanford's, which is not nearly as impressive as Kingsbury's.
Satterfield just landed as his dc........his dc from app st
I bet UL fans are excited about that. His lack of a resume was always going to make it hard to get good coordinators. It's one of the reasons I didn't want him.
Uh that Jason Staples is a bloward and Satterfield will be a flop.
UNC could not take a chance on a nobody coach with the wolpfack now owning the state. Hiring some second rate division coach was not going to fire up recruits or make them believe he is not Fed 2.0
UNC could not take a chance on a nobody coach with the wolpfack now owning the state. Hiring some second rate division coach was not going to fire up recruits or make them believe he is not Fed 2.0
given carolinas history why did you think we would hire someone better that you liked?
Woad, if Bateman was the choice all along the delay is understandable.
Let's hope the OC situation would be similar.
I get all the pessimism around the Mack hire and the weirdness/delay of the OC and DC hire. Mack wasn’t my first choice. But again let’s be realistic about who We are right now. We are a shit program right now. Candidly, regardless of who we hire, if we tackle better, play disciplined football on both sides, and play with consistency offensively, and have accountability from our staff, we will be significantly better than last year. Give the new staff, whoever they may be, the courtesy and chance to show improvement.
Mack's hires for his entire staff are awesome. I had been amazed by all the pessimism from the beginning of Mack's hire. Maybe alot of forum posters are too young to realize Mack Brown is the real deal. He has been a success every where he has been. He is especially good at kick starting programs. His enthusiasm is infectious. Both coordinator hires are home runs. Funny but when Mack was first hired a writer with SB Nation said Mack was s bad hire. Today after the staff has been assembled he said he apologized. Everybody better strap on their helmets for a fun ride.
