Mack's last chance

[bluetoe]

Isn't this year the 2nd year since Mack has been back that he said this is the best coaching staff he's ever had? Do you believe he really thinks that? Or is he trying to convince himself as well as the fans?

Both of the lines are physically weak. Has been for years. Our dline is terrible. Has been for the last 5 years with the same dline coach.

Either our coaches are clueless or our players are too fuggin stupid to play how they are coached.

they are light years ahead of what they were only recently, but that still has them sucking hind tit. I get most tired of the lapses of the more basic fundamentals. Grabbing up high instead of wrapping the legs, pinching in too much on the edges, etc. That's coaching. What really makes it frustrating is that sometimes they hit on all cylinders and it's a wonderful thing. Why can't they do that consistently?

It's beyond pathetic when you jump to a two touchdown lead and you know that it isn't going to last very long..

ETA the bolded

 

[DSouthr]

but it should be, and should have been a long time ago. The problem now, IMO, is we're stuck with a coach who is the darling of a lot of people who don't care if we are better than mediocre, or at least are willing to accept mediocrity as a tradeoff for having a personable, Mr. Clean kind of coach.

We hired Butch because somebody upstairs got serious about us having top level football for a change. When that regrettably backfired, I'm afraid the opportunity to have a serious program passed us by.

Everyone to their own opinion of course but seems like everyone is pissed today at Mack? About the only thing I am upset with Mack for is having not canned Chiz in the last off season, it has been his defenses that have been the problem. He needs to get his arse out of the press box and down on the field with his players to begin with and join them on the sidelines. We freakin scored 41pts, GT could not stop Hampton and we lose the game because our defense in the 4th not only could not stop a weak GT team, we didn't even seem able to slow them down? Someone needs to be fired for that and that someone should be the guy responsible for that defense and he can take the special teams coach with him!

Thank goodness it is time for basketball!

 

[bluetoe]

About the only thing I am upset with Mack for is having not canned Chiz in the last off season

how many more things does it take, would be my question to you. We have wasted a ton of grade-A offense and missed a number of wins by having a miserably weak defense. Mack is the one ultimately responsible for that, not Chizik.

We have offensive problems as well that involve coaching, and Mack is also responsible for that, bottom line. These coaches don't force their way into employment here.

On the other hand, we don't know all there is to know about circumstances around the program. Mack might be working with limitations we don't know about. I really don't blame it all on him...but I have accepted that it doesn't do any good to blame it on those above him, so he's the goat. Not GOAT. Goat.

 

[blazers]

Isn't this year the 2nd year since Mack has been back that he said this is the best coaching staff he's ever had? Do you believe he really thinks that? Or is he trying to convince himself as well as the fans?

I feel like he's said this every year.

Our offense is great, Chip might be a tad better than Longo, but i'm guessing there are many OC's out there that could do great things with Maye, Hampton, our trio of TE and guys like Tez.

Anyway, i feel the next HC needs to be more X&O's. The CEO model is kinda playing one-coach down IMO in terms of scheming, analysis, correction, etc.

 

[blazers]

I mean, Mack Is Mack but the program is leaps and bounds in a better place than it was when Fedora left. I said it when they hired Mack the 2nd time, he is the right guy to right the ship and then make the right hire to replace him.

He did his job in terms of fan engagement and overall program excitement, and knock-on-wood, he got rid of the injury bug which plagued us the Fed yrs, but he should've retired last yr, and Bubba needs to put the squeeze on him this yr.

There is an intensity, heart or gut element that is missing, and that's either from recruiting or top-down.

 

[bluetoe]

He did his job in terms of fan engagement and overall program excitement, and knock-on-wood, he got rid of the injury bug which plagued us the Fed yrs, but he should've retired last yr, and Bubba needs to put the squeeze on him this yr.

There is an intensity, heart or gut element that is missing, and that's either from recruiting or top-down.

I'm chuckling at the suggestion that Bubba might put the squeeze on Mack.

As with Longo, our offense in general is OK...and as with Longo, it's the questionable in-game decisions that baffle.

 

[WoadBlue]

I mean, Mack Is Mack but the program is leaps and bounds in a better place than it was when Fedora left. I said it when they hired Mack the 2nd time, he is the right guy to right the ship and then make the right hire to replace him.

The first key to 'right guy to replace him' is when to do that. I think that when he took a pre-season Top 10 team that was coming off a disappointing Orange Bowl loss to a losing record was the when. That was a big set back. And Mack is too old to overcome big setbacks.

Now, what we are facing, whether we like it not or not, is that Mack next year will almost certainly not have Maye. So far, he has had 5 years of 1 of the 2 best QBs in schools history. What will things be like with a normal QB?

 

[Kool1234567]

The first key to 'right guy to replace him' is when to do that. I think that when he took a pre-season Top 10 team that was coming off a disappointing Orange Bowl loss to a losing record was the when. That was a big set back. And Mack is too old to overcome big setbacks.

Now, what we are facing, whether we like it not or not, is that Mack next year will almost certainly not have Maye. So far, he has had 5 years of 1 of the 2 best QBs in schools history. What will things be like with a normal QB?

Be fair about the Orange Bowl we had a few sit out…

 

[bluetoe]

So far, he has had 5 years of 1 of the 2 best QBs in schools history. What will things be like with a normal QB?

I shudder to imagine...

To me the when is after having established a propensity toward losing games that should almost unquestionably be won, and inexplicable season-altering collapses. Losing big, challenging games is disappointing. Losing two highly winnable games in a row in spite of having more than adequate personnel is beyond disheartening, to say the least. I don't want to have a coach who provides that.

I want a coach who can deliver on expectations whether those are low or high.

 

[bluetoe]

Be fair about the Orange Bowl we had a few sit out…

I think he was just pointing out that we made the Orange bowl the one season and then tanked the next.. I can't speak for him but that's how I took it. I don't think he was criticizing the OB loss. Maybe he'll tell us.

Presumably like you, I am convinced we would have won the OB handily with the people who cut out, and I'm not that hugely disappointed that we ended up losing after having played the opposition evenly without them for the most part (until we got worn down).

 

[uncboy10]

For Mack to build a legit national contender as a HC at this point in his career, he needs an elite coordinator on both sides of the ball. Those coordinators cost top dollar, and the staffs they would want to build around them would too. Especially when you factor in the premium it would take to bring them here. He doesn’t have the money and he’s not going to get it. So how is Carolina supposed to take the next step under Mack?

Mack is an elite program CEO. He is an elite recruiter. Probably one of the greatest of all time. What we have not seen is elite level development and deployment of the talent he has brought in. We haven’t seen high level playcalling on either side of the ball. We haven’t seen a particularly impressive level of discipline. Particularly with regards to penalties. The lines getting pushed around has led many of us to believe there are major deficiencies in the strength and conditioning program. Poor fundamentals seem to be standard, particularly on defense, outside of a few standouts like Cedric.

These aren’t problems that get fixed in a week. Or even a season. This program has deep cracks in the foundation and hasn’t taken the necessary steps to correct them. But let’s say for a second that Mack does get things dialed in by next year… He’ll still be dealing with a major drop off in the quality of play at the most important position on the field. Take away Vince Young and he doesn’t have a national title. Take away Drake Maye and this team might struggle to be bowl eligible.

Recruiting has fallen off a cliff compared to the first few years. I just don’t see how we’re supposed to convince ourselves that this thing is trending in the right direction. Are we supposed to believe Mack will take Carolina to the promised land? Or should we settling for a lower standard and be grateful that Mack isn’t as bad as Bunting or Fedora?

Either get him the funds to hire a better staff or start thinking about how to transition to less of a CEO type coach. This recipe isn’t working so change it, or try something else entirely.

 

[bluetoe]

For Mack to build a legit national contender as a HC at this point in his career, he needs an elite coordinator on both sides of the ball. Those coordinators cost top dollar, and the staffs they would want to build around them would too. Especially when you factor in the premium it would take to bring them here. He doesn’t have the money and he’s not going to get it. So how is Carolina supposed to take the next step under Mack?

Mack is an elite program CEO. He is an elite recruiter. Probably one of the greatest of all time. What we have not seen is elite level development and deployment of the talent he has brought in. We haven’t seen high level playcalling on either side of the ball. We haven’t seen a particularly impressive level of discipline. Particularly with regards to penalties. The lines getting pushed around has led many of us to believe there are major deficiencies in the strength and conditioning program. Poor fundamentals seem to be standard, particularly on defense, outside of a few standouts like Cedric.

These aren’t problems that get fixed in a week. Or even a season. This program has deep cracks in the foundation and hasn’t taken the necessary steps to correct them. But let’s say for a second that Mack does get things dialed in by next year… He’ll still be dealing with a major drop off in the quality of play at the most important position on the field. Take away Vince Young and he doesn’t have a national title. Take away Drake Maye and this team might struggle to be bowl eligible.

Recruiting has fallen off a cliff compared to the first few years. I just don’t see how we’re supposed to convince ourselves that this thing is trending in the right direction. Are we supposed to believe Mack will take Carolina to the promised land? Or should we settling for a lower standard and be grateful that Mack isn’t as bad as Bunting or Fedora?

Either get him the funds to hire a better staff or start thinking about how to transition to less of a CEO type coach. This recipe isn’t working so change it, or try something else entirely.

we wanted someone to take us places, and I think what happened was that Mack got a great place to retire, whenever he decides for that to happen. My feeling is that our requirement wasn't met and will not be under Mack because he doesn't have the time. And not due to being fired, if you catch my drift.

But he ain't going anywhere IMO so we're stuck with whatever happens.

If we're a school highly motivated to be all that we can be in football, Mack would be gone already, or at least at the end of this season. But we aren't that school, and it's a shame and disgrace not to be.

Take away Vince Young and he doesn’t have a national title.

I mentioned this as well. At Texas, he was sitting in a gold mine of recruiting and he worked it for all it was worth. I was keeping up somewhat, and he consistently had top recruiting classes. Yet the results didn't perfectly reflect that until he got Vince Young. Vince Young was that super-athletic QB capable of putting an entire team on his back, in similar fashion to Cam Newton at Auburn...and that's what he did. In my mind, Vince Young has a national championship and Mack was there to see it.

Nothing against Mack Brown. I almost puked when I found he was leaving, M1. But what I really want isn't to dote on Mack, but for us to be what we deserve to be, and I can't see it coming any time soon.

 

[uncboy10]

we wanted someone to take us places, and I think what happened was that Mack got a great place to retire, whenever he decides for that to happen. My feeling is that our requirement wasn't met and will not be under Mack because he doesn't have the time. And not due to being fired, if you catch my drift.

But he ain't going anywhere IMO so we're stuck with whatever happens.

If we're a school highly motivated to be all that we can be in football, Mack would be gone already, or at least at the end of this season. But we aren't that school, and it's a shame and disgrace not to be.


I mentioned this as well. At Texas, he was sitting in a gold mine of recruiting and he worked it for all it was worth. I was keeping up somewhat, and he consistently had top recruiting classes. Yet the results didn't perfectly reflect that until he got Vince Young. Vince Young was that super-athletic QB capable of putting an entire team on his back, in similar fashion to Cam Newton at Auburn...and that's what he did. In my mind, Vince Young has a national championship and Mack was there to see it.

Nothing against Mack Brown. I almost puked when I found he was leaving, M1. But what I really want isn't to dote on Mack, but for us to be what we deserve to be, and I can't see it coming any time soon.

I can see how Mack 2.0 could be a good step towards hiring a great coach. The program is in better shape than when he got here. But I don’t want to watch 5 more years of what we’ve been seeing. Hopefully this doesn’t drag out

 

[Kool1234567]

To be fair Mack won 10 or more games at Texas 9 years in a row and never finished below 2nd in those years…Also he beats Bama IMO if Colt doesn’t get hurt…Who else has done that at Texas the Great Football Program…

 

[WoadBlue]

I feel like he's said this every year.

Our offense is great, Chip might be a tad better than Longo, but i'm guessing there are many OC's out there that could do great things with Maye, Hampton, our trio of TE and guys like Tez.

Anyway, i feel the next HC needs to be more X&O's. The CEO model is kinda playing one-coach down IMO in terms of scheming, analysis, correction, etc.

Xs and Os with a passion for demanding fundamentals. That is how you best coach 'em up, how you best develop talent, how you take a lot of 3*s and get them to play as a team as if they were 4*s.

Mack's pretty face and silver tongue (which explain why the Chapel Hill ladies and Art Chansky types love him) work best at a program that recruits itself the way UNC basketball recruits itself.

 

[tarheel0910]

I can see how Mack 2.0 could be a good step towards hiring a great coach. The program is in better shape than when he got here. But I don’t want to watch 5 more years of what we’ve been seeing. Hopefully this doesn’t drag out

What's another 5 years when you and your parents have waited their whole lives?

 

[WoadBlue]

To be fair Mack won 10 or more games at Texas 9 years in a row and never finished below 2nd in those years…Also he beats Bama IMO if Colt doesn’t get hurt…Who else has done that at Texas the Great Football Program…

You mean he never finished below 2nd in the South Division in those years.

Total Wins numbers for coaches in an era when the season was 10 and then 11 cannot be seen the same way you tabulate them when the season became 12. For example, I think Darryl Royal coached 11 regular season games only once in this career. No 12 game regular seasons for him at all. What Royal did is dominate the football deep SWC with 11 Championships. He also won 2 outright National Championships and 1 split National Championship.

Mack did very well at Texas, in large part because his charming tongue plus the legacy of what Royal built meant he could recruit gangbuster every single year. But OU still dominated winning the division and the Big 12 Championship when Mack was at Texas.

 

[tarheel0910]

et the results didn't perfectly reflect that until he got Vince Young. Vince Young was that super-athletic QB capable of putting an entire team on his back, in similar fashion to Cam Newton at Auburn...and that's what he did. In my mind, Vince Young has a national championship and Mack was there to see it.

I've never understood this line of thinking. You see it a lot from fans of rival schools. Sure he had a great QB, but what national championship team doesn't have a good QB? UGA and Alabama didn't win their championships with bad QBs.

 

[uncboy10]

What's another 5 years when you and your parents have waited their whole lives?

My dad did wait his whole life and never got to see Carolina win one. I’m starting to think it’s gonna be the same for me too.

 

[bluetoe]

I've never understood this line of thinking. You see it a lot from fans of rival schools. Sure he had a great QB, but what national championship team doesn't have a good QB? UGA and Alabama didn't win their championships with bad QBs.

he wasn't a 'good' QB. He wasn't a 'great' QB. He was like a once-in-a-lifetime Superman QB. Let me know if you understand that line of thinking.

 

[tarheel0910]

he wasn't a 'good' QB. He wasn't a 'great' QB. He was like a once-in-a-lifetime Superman QB. Let me know if you understand that line of thinking.

I understand that championship teams have great QBs. I wouldn't describe him as a once in a lifetime QB, though. It's weird to me that you're trying to play down Mack's accomplishments. I get not liking Mack 2.0. I'm indifferent on it right now, but I'm not going to downplay his championship because he hasn't been great here for 2.0.

 

[tarheel0910]

My dad did wait his whole life and never got to see Carolina win one. I’m starting to think it’s gonna be the same for me too.

I'm wondering if my great great great grandchildren will still think it will happen or if they will listen to the family tales of their wise great great great grandfather letting them know it won't happen.

 

[bluetoe]

To be fair Mack won 10 or more games at Texas 9 years in a row and never finished below 2nd in those years…Also he beats Bama IMO if Colt doesn’t get hurt…Who else has done that at Texas the Great Football Program…

absolutely, he did much for Texas; but there he was virtually swimming in five and four star talent from talent-rich Texas high schools. Many people expected more than one championship with the talent he had on hand and available.

Note that I said the wealth of talent wasn't perfectly reflected in the results.

 

[Kool1234567]

he wasn't a 'good' QB. He wasn't a 'great' QB. He was like a once-in-a-lifetime Superman QB. Let me know if you understand that line of thinking.

You mean he never finished below 2nd in the South Division in those years.

Total Wins numbers for coaches in an era when the season was 10 and then 11 cannot be seen the same way you tabulate them when the season became 12. For example, I think Darryl Royal coached 11 regular season games only once in this career. No 12 game regular seasons for him at all. What Royal did is dominate the football deep SWC with 11 Championships. He also won 2 outright National Championships and 1 split National Championship.

Mack did very well at Texas, in large part because his charming tongue plus the legacy of what Royal built meant he could recruit gangbuster every single year. But OU still dominated winning the division and the Big 12 Championship when Mack was at Texas.

What other coaches have won 10 or more games 9 years in a row at a major P5 program…Let me know it has to be a short list…Also OU was pretty damn good in that time frame and for me a better Program than Texas during my lifetime…

 

[sctarheel30]

Been away from the boards for most of the week to try and calm down from the past two weeks of BS. I haven’t read all of the above posts so if I repeat anything please excuse or ignore. I hate that Mack and company (asst coaches) have wasted two of the best QBs in UNC history. I admit mack has been recruiting some top talent, per the expert sites, but has very little to show for it. Those are just two of the things that frustrates the whole situation.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Been away from the boards for most of the week to try and calm down from the past two weeks of BS. I haven’t read all of the above posts so if I repeat anything please excuse or ignore. I hate that Mack and company (asst coaches) have wasted two of the best QBs in UNC history. I admit mack has been recruiting some top talent, per the expert sites, but has very little to show for it. Those are just two of the things that frustrates the whole situation.

Just a thought did he waste 2 of the best QB's in UNC history or did we have 2 of the best QB's in UNC history because Mack was the coach?

I'm not taking a side on that I'm just posing a question.

 

[notashelbyfan]

I'm wondering if my great great great grandchildren will still think it will happen or if they will listen to the family tales of their wise great great great grandfather letting them know it won't happen.

I don't see any scenario where we every win a national championship in football, the closest we have ever been was in Mack's first time here and where Butch Davis had us when that shitshow started!

 

[sctarheel30]

Just a thought did he waste 2 of the best QB's in UNC history or did we have 2 of the best QB's in UNC history because Mack was the coach?

I'm not taking a side on that I'm just posing a question.

Of course we had them because of him but once they got here we didn’t win anything of significance

 

[bluetoe]

I understand that championship teams have great QBs. I wouldn't describe him as a once in a lifetime QB, though. It's weird to me that you're trying to play down Mack's accomplishments. I get not liking Mack 2.0. I'm indifferent on it right now, but I'm not going to downplay his championship because he hasn't been great here for 2.0.

I'm not downplaying because of anything happening now. I'm giving you my opinion formed at that time and with what happened then. I'm actually upplaying Vince Young. UT owes Vince Young more than Mack Brown for that national championship. If that national ,championship would have come about with a lesser QB, I wouldn't be saying this. But with a lesser (but still really good) QB, there is no championship. Maybe you can find video of the game and you'll see what I mean. You won't agree of course, but you'll see what I mean.

We have a DC with a championship under his belt. And you can say whatever you want to about it, but I assure you that he doesn't get that championship without Cam Newton. Auburn owes that championship to Cam Newton.

ETA I don't mention the last part just because both coaches happen to be
here. That's coincidental. I mention it because those are the two instances where a superman QB put a team on his back and carried it to a championship. I'm comparing Newton to Young, and their championships.

 

[bluetoe]

What other coaches have won 10 or more games 9 years in a row at a major P5 program…Let me know it has to be a short list…Also OU was pretty damn good in that time frame and for me a better Program than Texas during my lifetime…

it doesn't matter how short that list is, it doesn't apply to what I've said. Read your second sentence, that does apply to what I said. Mack had more talent at Texas in that time frame.

 

[bluetoe]

Of course we had them because of him but once they got here we didn’t win anything of significance

and the shame is, that's a huge red flag for those top players who might be thinking about playing here. Opposing recruiters are waving the hell out of it. It's a recipe for making it harder to get top talent again.

If anyone wants to minimize the damage that losing these last two games has done, they should probably stick with fantasy football.

 

[bluetoe]

I don't see any scenario where we every win a national championship in football, the closest we have ever been was in Mack's first time here and where Butch Davis had us when that shitshow started!

you may be right and you probably are. But it has to go down as the biggest missed opportunity ever. I don't mean any specific team we've had, I just mean in general we could be in contention.

 

[tarheel0910]

I don't see any scenario where we every win a national championship in football, the closest we have ever been was in Mack's first time here and where Butch Davis had us when that shitshow started!

National championship? LOL. I was talking about an ACC championship. I think the chances of me walking on Mars is significantly larger than us winning a national championship in football.

 

[strummingram]

Just a thought did he waste 2 of the best QB's in UNC history or did we have 2 of the best QB's in UNC history because Mack was the coach?

I'm not taking a side on that I'm just posing a question.

If Javonte and Michael Carter hadn't quit on the team, UNC wins the Orange Bowl and it's a totally different discussion. Same if Josh Downs doesn't quit on the team last season. People can gripe about it being a business decision... But, no player was EVER "opting out" of a bowl game until recently.

These players risk their body against NCSU, or ShitFerBrains Tech in September, but not a bowl game. The risk of injuries is the same. I just don't have a lot of respect for them when they quit on the team in the most important game of the season.

 

[strummingram]

By the way, my new avatar is my recent Strutting Ram tattoo. Dude from El Paso came to Clemson and did a cover up of my ancient Ramses and fvcking brought it to 5G life!

 

[strummingram]

National championship? LOL. I was talking about an ACC championship. I think the chances of me walking on Mars is significantly larger than us winning a national championship in football.

I bet you walk pretty well by now. We just gotta get you to Mars. So... Yeah. Just win the ACC once more.

 

[WoadBlue]

they are light years ahead of what they were only recently, but that still has them sucking hind tit. I get most tired of the lapses of the more basic fundamentals. Grabbing up high instead of wrapping the legs, pinching in too much on the edges, etc. That's coaching. What really makes it frustrating is that sometimes they hit on all cylinders and it's a wonderful thing. Why can't they do that consistently?

It's beyond pathetic when you jump to a two touchdown lead and you know that it isn't going to last very long..

ETA the bolded

Teams are inconsistent for 3 reasons, alone or in. combination: 1) being very young and inexperienced; 2) injuries/illnesses that disrupt; 3) and coaching that has not implanted disciplined, consistent performance.

 

[WoadBlue]

I'm wondering if my great great great grandchildren will still think it will happen or if they will listen to the family tales of their wise great great great grandfather letting them know it won't happen.

Its can happens but only with the right coach. Mack ws not man enough for the job when he left, because he knew he could never out recruit Bowden and that he could not win unless he hd more talent. He triply is not the man for it now.

 

[tarheel0910]

Its can happens

For your sake, I hope it doesn't happen in your lifetime. You won't know what to do with your life if you can't spend it constantly shiting on UNC football.

 

[gteeitup]

he is the right guy to right the ship and then make the right hire to replace him.

are you saying you want him involved in the search and/or hire?

did he not recommend fedora?