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Manley vs Bradley

gauchoheel

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Jul 29, 2016
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I thought to look this up after seeing someone in the Bucknell game thread comment on how good Tony Bradley could have been if he came back this year. I'm not saying Manley is better than Bradley, but it's pretty cool:

Tonight Manley had 16 points and 13 rebounds. All of last season Bradley never had more than 14 points. That's right, Sterling Manley has already eclipsed Bradley's career high. Bradley's career high in rebounds was 13, which Manley also matched in his second career game.

I expect our freshmen bigs' production to dip some once we start playing top teams, but I am very impressed with their offense and rebounding so far (defense still needs some work). They've proven skeptics like me wrong to this point.
 
No but our 3 bigs do hare time. I'm sure all 3 will improve but the ride may be bumpy at times. Sterling was good last night.
 
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No but our 3 bigs do hare time. I'm sure all 3 will improve but the ride may be bumpy at times. Sterling was good last night.

I wasn't criticizing our bigs at all, but comparing Manley with Bradley when Bradley was playing behind Meeks and Hicks with JJ on the floor to score, whereas Manley plays behind Brooks and ahead of Huffman with no AA scorer like JJ is not really fair to Bradley. I was very happy with our bigs on the offensive end last night, but who knows what Bradley would have done in the same circumstance. Besides that, it doesn't matter because Bradley is gone and Manley is here. That makes me a huge Manley fan!!
 
I wasn't criticizing our bigs at all, but comparing Manley with Bradley when Bradley was playing behind Meeks and Hicks with JJ on the floor to score, whereas Manley plays behind Brooks and ahead of Huffman with no AA scorer like JJ is not really fair to Bradley. I was very happy with our bigs on the offensive end last night, but who knows what Bradley would have done in the same circumstance. Besides that, it doesn't matter because Bradley is gone and Manley is here. That makes me a huge Manley fan!!
I agree! I'm happy with what we are getting out of Manley this early into his freshman year. But replace Bradley last year with Manley and do we really think Manley gets the same stat line? I don't. I even doubt he sees more than maybe a couple of minutes. Either way, Manley is what we have and if he can continue to improve, I'm satisfied.
 
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With Meeks and Hicks and Maye, I bet you are correct that Manley would not get the same minutes as TB, BUT that is not the point being made. The point is that once in the game Manley out played even our most optimistic expectations. I am thrilled with our Bigs' progress so far and I expect things to just keep getting better from here! Wait till Huff gets his hands in order and figures out his positioning on D and O and.....Monster time!

Manley got jobbed a few times on D (Sr. Big beasted him some), but boy did he look smooth on O. He also hustled all the way out to the perimeter and moved his feet well on D. This is already a vast improvement in what I saw in his HS clips! His rebounding and shooting are already ACC caliber, I expect the rest of his game to round out by the end of this year!
 
The only thing holding Manley back from starting is his foot speed, generally speaking, but mainly defensively. He's already better than Brooks. I don't know why it is hard for people to see that. I noticed that he was more polished from the first exhibition. You can't teach shooting touch to that kind of size. If he can stay healthy he will be seeing 25 minutes a game by March. Manley is no Bradley, however. I can give you multiple reasons why Bradley is better but for timesake I'll give you one: Sprinting from one basket to the other.
 
I re-read your post gobbler. Yeah interesting process. Bradley with some guys ahead that allowed him to grow, learn, refine and become even better.
Same is not true of our group. Like Roy said one of the three or even two of them may grow, learn and become better and see more time. As it is they are all expected to play, produce and improve along the way. Tough job, harder curve for this group as opposed to TB having a bit of comfort. Cam being out removes the scorer making our three freshmen big more of an integral part.
Gonna be a fun group.
 
I am sold on our young bigs long term potential....all 3 will be 4 year players that if show the work ethic and attitude of LM will be studs for us by the time they are done.....but, there are some weaknesses that are going to show up real soon.....hands and feet primarily! The skill set is certainly there but they are still growing into their bodies....I don't see the natural athleticism that the stud big's possess. I will be very interested in watching them go up against the freshman big from Arkansas Gafford. He has shown great mobility in his early games and will be a really good indicator of where our young guys are at.
 
Manley will be much farther allow when he leaves Chapel Hill than Bradley was. Take that to any bank in America.
 
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Manley wasn't sharing time with Meeks and Hicks.
That's not really all that relevant. Manley had this stat line in 17 minutes, which is the sort of time Bradley got in most games. If he had done this in 35 minutes then sure, it would be an unfair comparison.

Also, Bradley almost never shared the floor with Meeks, and Maye is honestly showing himself to be at least as good a scorer as Hicks (probably better). So I don't think pointing out the supporting bigs is a good counter argument.

I definitely think Bradley is a better overall player, and was not trying to state otherwise. Still mighty impressive that Manley was able to outscore all of Bradley's efforts last year by his second game.
 
That's not really all that relevant. Manley had this stat line in 17 minutes, which is the sort of time Bradley got in most games. If he had done this in 35 minutes then sure, it would be an unfair comparison.

Also, Bradley almost never shared the floor with Meeks, and Maye is honestly showing himself to be at least as good a scorer as Hicks (probably better). So I don't think pointing out the supporting bigs is a good counter argument.

I definitely think Bradley is a better overall player, and was not trying to state otherwise. Still mighty impressive that Manley was able to outscore all of Bradley's efforts last year by his second game.

okay.
 
69 minutes from our bigs.

37 - Maye
17 - Manley
15 - Brooks
04 - Huffman

Maye has proved the can play more minutes, but 37 was too much. He's definitely not going to be able to do that in a series of closely-spaced games - like in tournaments.

My old math tells me we must have played small ball for 11 minutes.

Was Brandon Robinson injured? He didn't play and I don't recall the announcers saying anything about him.
 
69 minutes from our bigs.

37 - Maye
17 - Manley
15 - Brooks
04 - Huffman

Maye has proved the can play more minutes, but 37 was too much. He's definitely not going to be able to do that in a series of closely-spaced games - like in tournaments.

My old math tells me we must have played small ball for 11 minutes.

Was Brandon Robinson injured? He didn't play and I don't recall the announcers saying anything about him.
Sprained shoulder is what I heard.
 
I believe Manley has exceeded the expectations of most, if not all, of the posters on this board through the first two games. However, we should tamper the expectations here a little bit. The young man has not faced top competition yet and as fickle has some are on this board, people will be calling for his head if (or when) he begins to struggle.
 
Some of y’all really dislike TB because he went OAD. Had he came back y’all would be riding his jock on how he the best acc big.

Its really obnoxious. Add to that the fact that Manley has one very good game against Bucknell and people just jump to certain conclusions. I liked what I saw from Manley for sure, but anyone who thinks that Bradley wouldnt have put up numbers with similar Playing time are just delusional.
 
Some of y’all really dislike TB because he went OAD. Had he came back y’all would be riding his jock on how he the best acc big.

Come on man. Don't you know that players actually get much worse the second they leave don't commit to us or if they leave UNC early.

Kevin Knox went from Vince Carter to SKJ in the minds of some Heels fans the second he tweeted that picture of him in a UK jersey.

If you've come here looking for rationality, I wish you luck in your search.
 
Some of y’all really dislike TB because he went OAD. Had he came back y’all would be riding his jock on how he the best acc big.

Its really obnoxious. Add to that the fact that Manley has one very good game against Bucknell and people just jump to certain conclusions. I liked what I saw from Manley for sure, but anyone who thinks that Bradley wouldnt have put up numbers with similar Playing time are just delusional.

Read the actual posts, don't make up your own strawmen. I love Bradley, and I embrace the OAD model. I'm fine with us recruiting more to Chapel Hill. I've said multiple times that Bradley is a better player, but I'm simply pointing out Manley has already outscored him.

"Anyone who thinks Bradley wouldnt have put up numbers with similar Playing time"

What? He had similar playing time. Manley only played 17 minutes last night. And yes, I pointed out it was against lesser competition.
 
Read the actual posts, don't make up your own strawmen. I love Bradley, and I embrace the OAD model. I'm fine with us recruiting more to Chapel Hill. I've said multiple times that Bradley is a better player, but I'm simply pointing out Manley has already outscored him.

"Anyone who thinks Bradley wouldnt have put up numbers with similar Playing time"

What? He had similar playing time. Manley only played 17 minutes last night. And yes, I pointed out it was against lesser competition.

Relax. I wasnt even referencing your post.
 
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I haven't seen one post that even hints that Manley is now or ever will be better than TB. I also didn't see anything that said anything bad about TB.

I for one love TB and think he could grow into a great NBA prospect. He is already showing that he wasn't ready to go pro since I heard he has spent the bulk of his time in the G league:

"The rookie out of North Carolina has already spent a couple of stints with the Salt Lake City Stars of the G-League, but he'll return to the Jazz to practice with the team Tuesday. The 19-year-old has not appeared in any of Utah's games to date and his rookie season will primarily be a developmental year." CBSSports

I truly believe that he should have done his developmental year in college, but I don't dislike him for going pro!

Manley has exceeded expectations and a comparison to TB's stats were used to make the point; is this really that hard to understand? (This is exactly why I hate player comparisons, lol!) Manley will certainly suffer setbacks and face Bigs that will abuse him, but I still expect him to be an important contributor right now and a problem by the end of this season. (Both of these expectations are vastly different from what I expected even 1 month ago)
 
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I had a really bad problem with espn3 buffering and jumping around with my "guaranteed 1GB" inet speed but I really liked what little I saw from Manley. He's not incredibly polished or advanced with his shot repertoire but he appears to have a college ready body with some really good length, holds position around the basket rather well, plays within his skill set, and looks to be a team player. I look forward to seeing his minutes increase and I honestly believe by the time February rolls around he may well be getting close to started minutes and you will see a noticeable improvement in all aspects of his game. One of the reasons UNC recruits these "project" bigs others may pass on is because we know how to develop both their bodies and skill set to get the most out of them and I doubt that Manley and Huff will be any different. You poasters that were wringing your hands about the 5 spot on this years team might want to just sit back, have a beer, watch and enjoy the progression these guys make over the next month or two. The machine aint hitting on all cylinders just yet but the parts are there to make it sing by March :) .
 
That's not really all that relevant. Manley had this stat line in 17 minutes, which is the sort of time Bradley got in most games. If he had done this in 35 minutes then sure, it would be an unfair comparison.

Also, Bradley almost never shared the floor with Meeks, and Maye is honestly showing himself to be at least as good a scorer as Hicks (probably better). So I don't think pointing out the supporting bigs is a good counter argument.

I definitely think Bradley is a better overall player, and was not trying to state otherwise. Still mighty impressive that Manley was able to outscore all of Bradley's efforts last year by his second game.

I was VERY impressed with Manley last night, specifically that soft shooting touch, not just from the mid range but at the free throw line, lot to like there.

Couple things I would point out, first Tony had a second game of his career and that second game was not a top 10 team either. Manley did what he did in what, 17mins? Tony had several games of over 17mins, he never put up a stat line equal to what Manley did last night.

Someone mentioned Tony ran the court better and yeah he did but Tony didn't play long stints either, he got winded rather quickly, as Manley as well does. I would offer this to consider, Tony did have 4 full seasons of high school ball, had off seasons in between in AAU and EYBL, Manley did not have that. IN fact, Manley had basically 2 years of high school ball so think Tony Bradley after a soph high school season? In fact, it is worse than that because Manley missed so much time that much of his high school playing days were pretty much recovering from being out so much, not like he had 2 solid seasons back to back before coming to us.

Not trying to say 1 is better than the other just suggesting that when you consider Manley you have to factor in the harder road he had to get here. My way early gut feel is Manley has a softer shooting touch than Tony did but Tony was a more imposing defensive presence. Tony has a huge up side, I hope he can reach it but lets not down play the upside in this Manley kid either, from what he showed me last night his upside may in fact be similar to Tony's.

Finally, I would add, very true that Manley does not have Meeks and Hicks ahead of him in the rotation but Tony did have Meeks and Hicks to go against in practice every day, Manley does not have that. One guy Manley is behind in our current rotation is Luke, a Jr version of Luke, Tony fell below the soph version of Luke in the rotation, I would suggest this Jr version of Luke is way improved over his soph version.

What I conclude isn't about one being better than the other, it is simply that Manley is delivering more than I and I suspect many felt he would at this point, makes me feel much better about our front court that both he and Brooks are producing so early on and Luke is leading the way.
 
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I had a really bad problem with espn3 buffering and jumping around with my "guaranteed 1GB" inet speed but I really liked what little I saw from Manley. He's not incredibly polished or advanced with his shot repertoire but he appears to have a college ready body with some really good length, holds position around the basket rather well, plays within his skill set, and looks to be a team player. I look forward to seeing his minutes increase and I honestly believe by the time February rolls around he may well be getting close to started minutes and you will see a noticeable improvement in all aspects of his game. One of the reasons UNC recruits these "project" bigs others may pass on is because we know how to develop both their bodies and skill set to get the most out of them and I doubt that Manley and Huff will be any different. You poasters that were wringing your hands about the 5 spot on this years team might want to just sit back, have a beer, watch and enjoy the progression these guys make over the next month or two. The machine aint hitting on all cylinders just yet but the parts are there to make it sing by March :) .

Lol you’re acting like we deliberately passed on higher ranked prospects for these guys. Newsflash, Roy took what he could get. All of the amazing big men we’ve had over the years: Tyler Hansbrough, Sean May, Ed Davis, Tyler Zeller, John Henson, Brice Johnson, etc. All of them were top 30-40 at least.

That being said, I’m impressed and pleasantly surprised from what I’ve seen so far. All three are going to get better as time goes on and I can’t wait to see how they progress.

But let’s just temper our expectations for the time being. We’ve only played two opponents, both mid majors. I suspect it’ll be much tougher going up against other P5 teams and ACC rivals.
 
Lol you’re acting like we deliberately passed on higher ranked prospects for these guys. Newsflash, Roy took what he could get. All of the amazing big men we’ve had over the years: Tyler Hansbrough, Sean May, Ed Davis, Tyler Zeller, John Henson, Brice Johnson, etc. All of them were top 30-40 at least.

That being said, I’m impressed and pleasantly surprised from what I’ve seen so far. All three are going to get better as time goes on and I can’t wait to see how they progress.

But let’s just temper our expectations for the time being. We’ve only played two opponents, both mid majors. I suspect it’ll be much tougher going up against other P5 teams and ACC rivals.

I don't think UNC passed on higher big man prospects for these guys. I think Roy Williams is a realist and recruits to his vision regarding the potential his staff can bring out and develop in each player as it relates to his LONG TERM goals. Manley is not a Davis/Zeller/T50/Johnson or any of the others named but (from what I saw from my crappy inet connection) there are things Manley has as a frosh that others didn't have as a senior and I would about bet that if he stays here 4 years, which I doubt, he will make his mark in the UNC family and when he leaves the program he will have a ring. jmho
 
I think it's fine to be excited about what we have all seen from the freshmen bigs so far. I am too, especially with Manley. At the same time, it's important to remember that we've played N. Iowa and Bucknell so far. Both are respectable teams, but they're not at the level of competition we will face going forward. These guys will have some growing pains along the way, and that's fine. All freshmen go through it. I've said before that as fans we shouldn't get to high or to low based on what we see from these guys. They will show flashes of greatness and then just as quickly provide reminders that they're still freshmen. The fun part is watching them grow and develop over time. They will get there.

I had a feeling all of these guys would be solid contributors at some point, and I'm more confident saying that now than I was a few weeks ago.
 
I think it's fine to be excited about what we have all seen from the freshmen bigs so far. I am too, especially with Manley. At the same time, it's important to remember that we've played N. Iowa and Bucknell so far. Both are respectable teams, but they're not at the level of competition we will face going forward. These guys will have some growing pains along the way, and that's fine. All freshmen go through it. I've said before that as fans we shouldn't get to high or to low based on what we see from these guys. They will show flashes of greatness and then just as quickly provide reminders that they're still freshmen. The fun part is watching them grow and develop over time. They will get there.

I had a feeling all of these guys would be solid contributors at some point, and I'm more confident saying that now than I was a few weeks ago.
You're not disagreeing with any of the "optimists" though. No one is saying Manley is better than Bradley. No one is saying he's a OAD or something. Everyone is pretty much acknowledging the competition.

It's like someone saying "I rate Manley's performance a 92 out of 100 so far."
And then others argue "NO WAY!! He's been at best a 91". We're talking past each other when everyone is probably on the same page.
 
I think it's fine to be excited about what we have all seen from the freshmen bigs so far. I am too, especially with Manley. At the same time, it's important to remember that we've played N. Iowa and Bucknell so far. Both are respectable teams, but they're not at the level of competition we will face going forward. These guys will have some growing pains along the way, and that's fine. All freshmen go through it. I've said before that as fans we shouldn't get to high or to low based on what we see from these guys. They will show flashes of greatness and then just as quickly provide reminders that they're still freshmen. The fun part is watching them grow and develop over time. They will get there.

I had a feeling all of these guys would be solid contributors at some point, and I'm more confident saying that now than I was a few weeks ago.
Great post, couldn't agree more. If fans wouldn't micro criticize every single game and would instead look at the season on a macro level, they would be a lot happier, especially in years when we've lost so much to graduation. Roy has proven time after time that his teams continue to improve as the season progresses and are generally playing their best at season's end. This team will very much be a work in progress. Just enjoy watching them develop and the way Roy builds a team that will be able to play with the best by season's end.
 
You're not disagreeing with any of the "optimists" though. No one is saying Manley is better than Bradley. No one is saying he's a OAD or something. Everyone is pretty much acknowledging the competition.

It's like someone saying "I rate Manley's performance a 92 out of 100 so far."
And then others argue "NO WAY!! He's been at best a 91". We're talking past each other when everyone is probably on the same page.

It wasn't my intent to disagree with the "optimists" here. I'm probably one myself. I think these kids have a bright future. However, I'm not ready to say that either Manley or Brooks will leave early for the draft. In my opinion, they are both still 4 year players right now, and I haven't seen enough to think otherwise. I just hope they continue to work hard to get better each day.
 
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Some very good post here. I'm neither an optimist or pessimist .. just a realist, but as someone that has been an avid follower of UNC basketball since back in the Bill Bunting and Rusty Clark days I just appreciate the program and the way we take and develop young men as people as much as players. Regardless of the NBA or pro bball career any of the current UNC players have there is a significantly better better than average chance they will all be successful in life and a lot of that will come from their choosing to attend Carolina. jmho
 
Some very good post here. I'm neither an optimist or pessimist .. just a realist, but as someone that has been an avid follower of UNC basketball since back in the Bill Bunting and Rusty Clark days I just appreciate the program and the way we take and develop young men as people as much as players. Regardless of the NBA or pro bball career any of the current UNC players have there is a significantly better better than average chance they will all be successful in life and a lot of that will come from their choosing to attend Carolina. jmho

latest
 
I don't think UNC passed on higher big man prospects for these guys. I think Roy Williams is a realist and recruits to his vision regarding the potential his staff can bring out and develop in each player as it relates to his LONG TERM goals. Manley is not a Davis/Zeller/T50/Johnson or any of the others named but (from what I saw from my crappy inet connection) there are things Manley has as a frosh that others didn't have as a senior and I would about bet that if he stays here 4 years, which I doubt, he will make his mark in the UNC family and when he leaves the program he will have a ring. jmho

It’s not my intent to be overly negative. Just realistic. At this juncture, I would just advise caution. I think Manley, Brooks and Huffman will grow a lot this year simply because they’re being thrown into the fire at such a young age. But if Roy had been able to get carter, Bamba, PJ, Knox or any of the other top rated guys, would they have come to Carolina? No.

This isn’t to disparage any of our guys. I’m very pleased with what I’ve seen so far. But in terms of ranking, it’s not the standard we are used to. Roy did not choose any of them over the 5 star or high 4 star bigs.

To reiterate, we need to be cautious here. Two games are not an solid indication of a season, and our young bigs haven’t faced anyone from a P5 conference yet.
 
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