Mueller Probe Leaks Grand Jury Indictment(s) To CNN...

[Nuk'EM Heels]

My post was in response to #4 of your synopsis, especially the last word (None). But if secret meetings and back channels aren’t collusion what is?

"But if secret meetings and back channels aren’t collusion what is?"

In the past, such efforts would be considered opposition research at the worst and/or savvy diplomacy at best. How do you think Nixon was able to open the door to China, negotiate SALT I, and end the Vietnam War? By negotiating controversial deals in public?

Based on the GP indictment, the only thing that can be gleaned is that GP wanted to be seen as a big shot in the campaign (he was actually a very low level unpaid volunteer on a foreign policy committee that only met ONCE!) by attempting to solicit information from and set up meetings with Russians that never actually took place. Ironically, the Campaign Chairman (Manafort) put the kibosh on that plan... When he was interviewed by the FBI GP lied about when his contacts with Russians started, what he knew and what he tried to do. E-mail evidence to the contrary clearly demonstrated he was lying and he was justifiably charged with lying to the FBI. At worst, what you have vis a vis GP is an attempt to collude with Russians to get dirt on $RC, not actual collusion.

Oh, but wait... for evidence of actual collusion with Russia, see $RC & DNC actual payments to have actual campaign funds actually laundered through an international law firm (Perkins Coie), who hired Fusion GPS to actually dig up dirt on Trump using a former British spy who actually paid Russian intelligence agents to funnel information for the 'dodgy dossier' that was then used to actually smear Trump. Hmmmm... I imagine DEMs would argue this is savvy opposition research? Surely, not treason!

Don't even get me started on Uranium One...

 

[uncboy10]

Hahahaha is that a serious argument?....

Trump didn't "negotiate a controversial deal." He and his campaign conspired with the Russian state to increase his chances of winning. That is collusion. You'd have to be the world's biggest moron to compare collusion with an elected president negotiating behind closed doors.

 

[nctransplant]

Hahahaha is that a serious argument?....

Trump didn't "negotiate a controversial deal." He and his campaign conspired with the Russian state to increase his chances of winning. That is collusion. You'd have to be the world's biggest moron to compare collusion with an elected president negotiating behind closed doors.

Where in the indictments does it state that the campaign colluded with the
Russian state?

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Liberals didn't like Hillary in the first place, hence her getting so few damn votes.

So are you saying that liberals voted for Trump over Hillary, or that liberals chose not to vote in order to pave the way for Trump over Hillary?

 

[Heels Noir]

How do you think Nixon was able to open the door to China, negotiate SALT I, and end the Vietnam War? By negotiating controversial deals in public?

Or another way of putting it, how do you think Nixon was able to initiate covert bombing raids over Cambodia, strategize and then impose wage and price controls (which nearly destroyed the U.S. economy), and attempt to cover up the Watergate break-in? By negotiating controversial deals in public?

 

[uncboy10]

So are you saying that liberals voted for Trump over Hillary, or that liberals chose not to vote in order to pave the way for Trump over Hillary?

It isn't a matter of opinion that liberals didn't turn out for Hillary. Trump won with less votes than McCain got when he lost to Obama. Hillary got 8 million fewer votes than Obama. And the total number of eligible voters increased over those four years if I'm not mistaken.

Hillary couldn't fill up a high school gymnasium for most of the primary while Bernie was packing arenas.

 

[uncboy10]

Where in the indictments does it state that the campaign colluded with the
Russian state?

When did I say that was in the indictment? Are you claiming that any crime not contained in this particular indictment must not have happened? lol.

The indictment says that members of the campaign attempted to collude with the Russian state. One of them lied about it and is now going to sing like a canary. We already know that his own son did the same. His campaign director was fired for lying about meeting with Russian officials. How much smoke do you need before you admit theres a fire?

If the exact same circumstances were surrounding Hillary Clinton you'd all be clamoring for her to go to prison. The willingness to ignore corruption on the right fukkin astounds and disgusts me.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

It isn't a matter of opinion that liberals didn't turn out for Hillary. Trump won with less votes than McCain got when he lost to Obama. Hillary got 8 million fewer votes than Obama. And the total number of eligible voters increased over those four years if I'm not mistaken.

Hillary couldn't fill up a high school gymnasium for most of the primary while Bernie was packing arenas.

I agree with all that, I was just figuring that the votes that Hillary was losing being moderates made more sense.

 

[uncboy10]

Lets not forget that the man that you all are defending is the same man who walked in on a teenage girls dressing room. If you can get past that you have zero moral compass whatsoever, so I really shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Lets not forget that the man that you all are defending is the same man who walked in on a teenage girls dressing room. If you can get past that you have zero moral compass whatsoever, so I really shouldn't be surprised.

Hey.. that's legal and encouraged in Charlotte.

Agreed that it shouldn't be allowed to happen though.

 

[nctransplant]

When did I say that was in the indictment? Are you claiming that any crime not contained in this particular indictment must not have happened? lol.

The indictment says that members of the campaign attempted to collude with the Russian state. One of them lied about it and is now going to sing like a canary. We already know that his own son did the same. His campaign director was fired for lying about meeting with Russian officials. How much smoke do you need before you admit theres a fire?

If the exact same circumstances were surrounding Hillary Clinton you'd all be clamoring for her to go to prison. The willingness to ignore corruption on the right fukkin astounds and disgusts me.

The indictment on Manafort says NOTHING of collusion. Concerning the Papadopolous dude, he tried unsuccessfully to set up meetings, in fact Manafort shut him down. He was a non-paid volunteer trying to make a name for himself. One guy is not "members" as you state.

And I do believe there is a lot of smoke surrounding Hillary and the DNC spending millions on a fake dosier not to mention selling 20% of the US uranium supply to Russia.

As far as I am concerned lock them all up, Dems and Reps, they are all crooks including your man Bernie.

 

[nctransplant]

Lets not forget that the man that you all are defending is the same man who walked in on a teenage girls dressing room. If you can get past that you have zero moral compass whatsoever, so I really shouldn't be surprised.

Glad you are against allowing men to use women's restrooms. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[uncboy10]

I agree with all that, I was just figuring that the votes that Hillary was losing being moderates made more sense.

Yeah I'm sure it was mostly center-left. I consider liberal to be a pretty moderate term/identity. 'Progressive' would be further to left, and 'radical' even further than that. That's the terminology I tend to use anyways....

Hey.. that's legal and encouraged in Charlotte.

Agreed that it shouldn't be allowed to happen though.

I know you're making a joke. So first I'm going to laugh. But then I'm going to point out that isn't actually what the law allows because I'm scared there is at least one person in this thread dumb enough to actually believe that lol

 

[uncboy10]

I know you're making a joke. So first I'm going to laugh. But then I'm going to point out that isn't actually what the law allows because I'm scared there is at least one person in this thread dumb enough to actually believe that lol

Glad you are against allowing men to use women's restrooms. Thanks for clearing that up.

Well that was quick.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

So, let me get this straight. Liberal loons are against any US entity pursuing back-channel meetings to achieve political, diplomatic, economic, or military objectives? Am I reading this straight? Because, if you are then stand the FV&K by...

 

[nctransplant]

Well that was quick.

You must be the smartest guy alive. Please keep enlightening us poors with your wisdom.

 

[nctransplant]

Oh wise one @uncboy10 , could you also point out exactly which American Statutory law states that "collusion" is a crime except in anti-trust cases?
TIA

 

[heelmanwilm]

Glad you are against allowing men to use women's restrooms. Thanks for clearing that up.

U win the thread

 

[uncboy10]

Oh wise one @uncboy10 , could you also point out exactly which American Statutory law states that "collusion" is a crime except in anti-trust cases?
TIA

Nathaniel Persily at Stanford University Law School said one relevant statute is the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002.

"A foreign national spending money to influence a federal election can be a crime," Persily said. "And if a U.S. citizen coordinates, conspires or assists in that spending, then it could be a crime."

Persily pointed to a 2011 U.S. District Court ruling based on the 2002 law. The judges said that the law bans foreign nationals "from making expenditures to expressly advocate the election or defeat of a political candidate."

Another election law specialist, John Coates at Harvard University Law School, said if Russians aimed to shape the outcome of the presidential election, that would meet the definition of an expenditure.

"The related funds could also be viewed as an illegal contribution to any candidate who coordinates (colludes) with the foreign speaker," Coates said.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ws-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/

You're welcome.

 

[nctransplant]

Nathaniel Persily at Stanford University Law School said one relevant statute is the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002.

"A foreign national spending money to influence a federal election can be a crime," Persily said. "And if a U.S. citizen coordinates, conspires or assists in that spending, then it could be a crime."

Persily pointed to a 2011 U.S. District Court ruling based on the 2002 law. The judges said that the law bans foreign nationals "from making expenditures to expressly advocate the election or defeat of a political candidate."

Another election law specialist, John Coates at Harvard University Law School, said if Russians aimed to shape the outcome of the presidential election, that would meet the definition of an expenditure.

"The related funds could also be viewed as an illegal contribution to any candidate who coordinates (colludes) with the foreign speaker," Coates said.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ws-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/

You're welcome.

Thank you and I already knew that. Now show me where money in fact, not your opinion, where money has changed hands.

 

[BillyL]

Slow down a little bit, folks, let's give Mr. Mueller a little time to fill in the paint by number portrait of Dotard Donny's treasonous and traitorous acts. It's a matter of time and we all have a pretty good idea of what truly happened(Thanks Junior)

Be patient, folks . . and please pay no attention to that Uranium1 deflection that has been thrown out there to only distract from the other news that the world is currently and horrifyingly watching unfold.

 

[nctransplant]

Slow down a little bit, folks, let's give Mr. Mueller a little time to fill in the paint by number portrait of Dotard Donny's treasonous and traitorous acts. It's a matter of time and we all have a pretty good idea of what truly happened(Thanks Junior)

Be patient, folks . . and please pay no attention to that Uranium1 deflection that has been thrown out there to only distract from the other news that the world is currently and horrifyingly watching unfold.

You forgot the other distraction, John and Tony Podesta.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Wasn't it Hillary's campaign that paid Russia?

I'm legitimately asking here. I'm pretty sure I saw that everywhere, and not sure how this has again gotten flipped around?

 

[nctransplant]

Wasn't it Hillary's campaign that paid Russia?

I'm legitimately asking here. I'm pretty sure I saw that everywhere, and not sure how this has again gotten flipped around?

That's the infamous dossier they keep talking about. It has been proven that her campaign and the DNC paid into it thru the Podesta group. Others are involved but the company is refusing to release bank records. There is a witness that had been under a Holder/Lynch gag order that claims to have hard evidence. That order was rescinded this week.

 

[strummingram]

So, if this Mueller guy is worth his salt in legitimacy, he'll indict both of them.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Uranium One is going to come up and bite Her Mueller, $RC, the Deputy AG, and much of the DOS, DOJ, and FBI in the ass. It is not a deflection or a diversion. These traitors gave away 20% of US uranium reserves - the foundational material for nuclear weapons - to the Russians. If this was the 1950s, these assholes would get the electric chair en masse. Remember the Goldbergs?

That's the infamous dossier they keep talking about. It has been proven that her campaign and the DNC paid into it thru the Podesta group. Others are involved but the company is refusing to release bank records. There is a witness that had been under a Holder/Lynch gag order that claims to have hard evidence. That order was rescinded this week.

Not to be too contrarian... But there are two separate lines here. One, the $RC campaign and the DNC paid an international law firm - Perkins Coie - to hire Fusion GPs to dig up dirt on Trump in Russia. Fusion GPS hired Steele, the British spy, to use his Russian contacts in Russia to get the dirt. Steele used $RC and DNC money laundered through the law firm to pay Russian intelligence agents for damaging information on Trump. This will open up Perkins Coie and Fusion GPS, along with $RC and the DNC, to federal campaign law violations and violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA).

Two, the Podesta Group was involved in Manaforts dealings in Russia and failed to register as foreign agents as required by FARA (Foreign Agents Registration Act). Also, the Podesta Group was/has been heavily involved in the $RC and DNC efforts against Trump, broadly...

The Podesta Group, a Democratic lobbying firm co-founded by Clinton campaign manager John Podesta, appears to play a central role in the indictments of former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort. Mueller is looking into the Podesta Group, a lobbying firm with close ties to Hillary Clinton, over spreading Russian influence in the United States during Barack Obama’s presidency.

From 2006 to 2014, Manafort and Richard Gates “engaged in a multi-million dollar lobbying campaign in the United States at the direction of [former Ukrainian President Victor] Yanukovych, the Party of Regions, and the government of Ukraine,” according to the indictment. The Party of Regions is a pro-Russia Ukrainian political party whose leader, Yanukovych, served as president from 2010 to 2014.

Manafort and Gates chose two companies, identified as Company A and Company B in the indictment, to lobby on behalf of the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, a European nonprofit that officials say was created as a mouthpiece for the Party of Regions. Previous news reports have indicated that the two companies are the Podesta Group and Mercury LLC.

The head of the Podesta Group, Tony Podesta, resigned from the group on Monday amid increasing attention from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian influence operations. Tony’s brother, John Podesta, served as Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair during the 2016 election.

Mash here for more information about Mueller's interest in the Podesta Group. The Podestas, $RC, and much of the Obama administration is in real deep doodoo...

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

So, if this Mueller guy is worth his salt in legitimacy, he'll indict both of them.

Is it wishful thinking to believe if both major candidates in a presidential election get indicted for conspiracy/treason/etc. that would effect some sort of change on the process and we could get some legit candidates, something that hasn't been the case for the last decade+?

 

[toophly1124]

This thread makes my head hurt.

I wanna make money. **** pussy. And make money.

As @gunslingerdick ’s favorite artist says

Bitch don’t kill my vibe...

 

[tarheel0910]

Is it wishful thinking to believe if both major candidates in a presidential election get indicted for conspiracy/treason/etc. that would effect some sort of change on the process and we could get some legit candidates, something that hasn't been the case for the last decade+?

Yes, that's wishful thinking. The people that pick the candidates who runs will still be there. The only way that would happen is if an outsider wins and does a good job. Unfortunately Trump was the outsider that won and so far he's done nothing but strengthen the establishment.

 

[strummingram]

Unfortunately Trump was the outsider that won and so far he's done nothing but strengthen the establishment.

Which may not have been a coincidence.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

I for one think Trump has blown an extraordinary opportunity to succeed... His first mistake was failing to recognize the $hillary should be prosecuted. No mercy. Second mistake, his failure to recognize that Comey should have been canned from day one - he should have been canned for failing to prosecute $RC in July (we have subsequently learned that Comey had shopped his intent to absolve $RC several months before his July declaration that "no reasonable prosecutor would take up such a case", or words to the effect) and for failing to inform Trump that the 'dirty dossier' was the basis for the entire Trump collusion investigation, which is on it's face a lie. Third, once failing to can Comey from the start, Trump waited until May to can Comey and left open the impression he was trying to obstruct justice. This precipitated the acting AG to name a special prosecutor, and now here we are. The SWAMP has been strengthened, perhaps on steroids. Trumps problems are his own making, IMHO.

 

[Heels Noir]

Trumps problems are his own making, IMHO.

For once I agree with you although it takes zero brain cells to figure that one out.

 

[uncboy10]

 

[CanuckChuck]

I for one think Trump has blown an extraordinary opportunity to succeed... His first mistake was failing to recognize the $hillary should be prosecuted. No mercy. Second mistake, his failure to recognize that Comey should have been canned from day one - he should have been canned for failing to prosecute $RC in July (we have subsequently learned that Comey had shopped his intent to absolve $RC several months before his July declaration that "no reasonable prosecutor would take up such a case", or words to the effect) and for failing to inform Trump that the 'dirty dossier' was the basis for the entire Trump collusion investigation, which is on it's face a lie. Third, once failing to can Comey from the start, Trump waited until May to can Comey and left open the impression he was trying to obstruct justice. This precipitated the acting AG to name a special prosecutor, and now here we are. The SWAMP has been strengthened, perhaps on steroids. Trumps problems are his own making, IMHO.

Trumps "mistakes" are that he's not vindictive/petty/crazy enough?

CC

 

[CanuckChuck]

Uranium One is going to come up and bite Her Mueller, $RC, the Deputy AG, and much of the DOS, DOJ, and FBI in the ass. It is not a deflection or a diversion. These traitors gave away 20% of US uranium reserves - the foundational material for nuclear weapons - to the Russians.

I haven't seen any #'s on the total reserves but the US mine involved has produced between 5 and 10% of the total US production each year. It's low grade uranium used for nuclear power. It can't be exported out of the US. If Trump thought it was such a national security issue he could take the mine right now.

So no.

CC

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

I haven't seen any #'s on the total reserves but the US mine involved has produced between 5 and 10% of the total US production each year. It's low grade uranium used for nuclear power. It can't be exported out of the US. If Trump thought it was such a national security issue he could take the mine right now.

So no.

CC

Look it up, Uranium One deal gave Russians controlling interest in 20% of US uranium reserves.

If Russian are the arch enemy of the US as DEMs say they are (and, they mocked Romney in 2013 when he was so brazen as to declare that Russia was our biggest security concern back then...) then why of earth would we let them anywhere near AAAAAAAAANY of our uranium reserves?!?!?!?! And, OBTW, uranium is the foundational material not only for civilian nuclear power, but also for nuclear weapons.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Trumps "mistakes" are that he's not vindictive/petty/crazy enough?

CC

DEMs were calling for Comey's head when he reopened $RC's email investigation. They were calling for his head after $RC lost in the most stunning electoral defeat in modern time. They were calling for his head up to the point intelligence reports were leaked about Mike Flynn's communications with the Russian ambassador... Then, all of a sudden, he was a saint again... No. Comey should have been canned by Trump as the first order of business, if only as a gestrure to DEMs to reunite the country.

 

[CanuckChuck]

Look it up, Uranium One deal gave Russians controlling interest in 20% of US uranium reserves.

If Russian are the arch enemy of the US as DEMs say they are (and, they mocked Romney in 2013 when he was so brazen as to declare that Russia was our biggest security concern back then...) then why of earth would we let them anywhere near AAAAAAAAANY of our uranium reserves?!?!?!?! And, OBTW, uranium is the foundational material not only for civilian nuclear power, but also for nuclear weapons.

The best I can find is that the U1 facilities have capacity to process 20% of the US production, not produce. And to process that much it would have to come from other facilities as the mine itself cannot produce that much.

Look - the U1 US holdings are crap. Plus we still control what happens to the uranium. Russia wanted the company because of it's other holdings around the world. Don't act like it's a big traitorous act, cause it ain't. I mean the Canadians were running it in the first place. ARRRRG National Security!!!!
Now if you want to say the deal itself is shady that's fine but we'll need to see some proof.

BTW - I thought Trump said it would be great to get along with the Russians.

CC

 

[CanuckChuck]

DEMs were calling for Comey's head when he reopened $RC's email investigation. They were calling for his head after $RC lost in the most stunning electoral defeat in modern time. They were calling for his head up to the point intelligence reports were leaked about Mike Flynn's communications with the Russian ambassador... Then, all of a sudden, he was a saint again... No. Comey should have been canned by Trump as the first order of business, if only as a gestrure to DEMs to reunite the country.

I somewhat agree. If you are going to clean house, clean house, Don't half-ass it. But that's who he is. He'll get rid of the people he doesn't like, the others he'll wait until they do something he doesn't like. And he'll be a total idiot along the way "Drop the investigation. Did he drop it? No?!? He's fired!"

CC

 

[tarheel0910]

I mean the Canadians were running it in the first place. ARRRRG National Security!!!!

There's a pretty big difference between Canada and Russia. As far as the rest of it goes I don't really care about it, so I haven't kept up with it much.