Next years Roster

[alabamaheel]

Was just having that same conversation with a friend. Spending days or weeks dreading the next alert is not my idea of fun.

Any serious rumblings of EC considering the portal? All the hoopla that’s made this sport what it is just makes my heart hurt. I think with RJ gone that he will, or could, thrive. I hate when players transfer but some you kinda expect. Him leaving or even testing the waters would down right stink.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

I'd love to hear EC squash any notion of leaving ASAP

 

[gary-7]

Any serious rumblings of EC considering the portal? All the hoopla that’s made this sport what it is just makes my heart hurt. I think with RJ gone that he will, or could, thrive. I hate when players transfer but some you kinda expect. Him leaving or even testing the waters would down right stink.

With the caveat that "considering" is almost a default these days, I have been told that we have already been working hard to put that on ice.

Let's hope that proves to be the case.

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

He said he doesn’t think you can win big with freshmen. So expect him to turnover his roster every year through the portal. Of course he lost to Arkansas partly due to 2 freshmen that had big games. But alas….

View embedded media

It's true. Maybe a sprinkle.

 

[alabamaheel]

With the caveat that "considering" is almost a default these days, I have been told that we have already been working hard to put that on ice.

Let's hope that proves to be the case.

Thanks I hope so.

 

[gauchoheel]

Any serious rumblings of EC considering the portal? All the hoopla that’s made this sport what it is just makes my heart hurt. I think with RJ gone that he will, or could, thrive. I hate when players transfer but some you kinda expect. Him leaving or even testing the waters would down right stink.

It's kinda silly to imply that RJ is somehow holding Cadeau back. It's true they're not a good defensive combo, but Cadeau's issues (lack of size, over-adventurous turnovers, lack of shooting ability) aren't due to RJ. The first issue won't be fixed and the latter two have to come from Cadeau himself.

 

[alabamaheel]

It's kinda silly to imply that RJ is somehow holding Cadeau back. It's true they're not a good defensive combo, but Cadeau's issues (lack of size, over-adventurous turnovers, lack of shooting ability) aren't due to RJ. The first issue won't be fixed and the latter two have to come from Cadeau himself.

I don’t think so either but it’s a fact that some players are not good together. Especially ones that are close in position and size. A lot of which can be the mental side of competition and sports in general. I also agree that EC has some work to do and has already shown great improvement in a few of those areas. He’s shown he can connect from deep and knowing you have a 5th year guy that’s been there and done that very well himself can lead you to think and offer defer, instead of just letting it go. Just my two cents.

 

[gary-7]

It's kinda silly to imply that RJ is somehow holding Cadeau back. It's true they're not a good defensive combo, but Cadeau's issues (lack of size, over-adventurous turnovers, lack of shooting ability) aren't due to RJ. The first issue won't be fixed and the latter two have to come from Cadeau himself.

Let's be clear and also put some faulty narratives to rest while we're at it:
':
The only defensive deficit in that combo (other than their collective size) was on RJ's end. EC has successfully turned himself into a legit "plus" defender at Point. His footwork is night-and-day improved from his freshman season, and thus his Stop Rate is excellent, as is his propensity to disrupt and cause TOs. And, in a time where it's become more difficult to do so, EC drew more offensive fouls this season than the entire rest of our roster combined.

Eliot's next step of improvement is indeed on the shooting end, but perhaps not specifically where some would say. I doubt many fans are aware that his 3-pt shooting closed at just under 34% for this season --- a huge jump from last season's awful 19%. No reason that can't get closer to 40% going forward.

Where he needs to focus most now is on the MID-RANGE game --- floaters and especially pull-ups. A smallish Guard who can create one of those (almost literally) anytime he wants it, needs to be close to automatic there. I mean, look at Joel and RJ as examples.

And on a similar note, he needs to be shooting 80% FTs at a minimum. He gets to the rack and draws fouls --- so gotta cash in. There's no excuse for a guy with his ball rotation shooting 67% from the line. And from what I see. the causal issue in both of the above areas is inconsistent mechanics in squaring up and lower body motion. Time to get that fixed and he has a summer to do so.

Bottom line is that EC, as I have said before, "ain't normal". He is a play-making and passing savant and a PG with an off-the-charts basketball IQ --- the type you build a team aroumd. Let's hope that is what we see in the coming weeks.

 

[NathanFielder]

Let's be clear and also put some faulty narratives to rest while we're at it:
':
The only defensive deficit in that combo (other than their collective size) was on RJ's end. EC has successfully turned himself into a legit "plus" defender at Point. His footwork is night-and-day improved from his freshman season, and thus his Stop Rate is excellent, as is his propensity to disrupt and cause TOs. And, in a time where it's become more difficult to do so, EC drew more offensive fouls this season than the entire rest of our roster combined.

Eliot's next step of improvement is indeed on the shooting end, but perhaps not specifically where the some would say. I doubt many fans are aware that his 3-pt shooting closed at just under 34% for this season --- a huge jump from last season's awful 19%. No reason that can't get closer to 40% going forward.

Where he needs to focus most now is on the MID-RANGE game --- floaters and especially pull-ups. A smallish Guard who can create one of those (almost literally) anytime he wants it, needs to be close to automatic there. I mean, look at Joel and RJ as examples.

And on a similar note, he needs to be shooting 80% FTs at a minimum. He gets to the rack and draws fouls --- so gotta cash in. There's no excuse for a guy with his ball rotation shooting 67% from the line. And from what I see. the causal issue in both of the above areas is inconsistent mechanics in squaring up and lower body motion. Time to get that fixed and he has a summer to do so.

Bottom line is that EC, as I have said before, "ain't normal". He is a play-making and passing savant and a PG with an off-the-charts basketball IQ --- the type you build a team aroumd. Let's hope that is what we see in the coming weeks.

Cadeau, Seth, Powell (whichever ones return) need to improve on getting their shots off faster. Seth gets away with it because he elevated high enough but it doesnt matter because he’s a very poor jump shooter. But with how slow those 3 get off their shots, they eliminate the pull up in game situations.

Cadeau especially. He takes time to think then trigger. That process needs to be quicker. Powell is longer so his setup will take longer. But he had 0 chance in the iso pullups against Ole Miss when he got a switch. All 3 have shots that are easy to contest because they take forever to get their shot off.

Regarding Cadeau’s shooting. I never thought he was an 18% shooter like he showed as a freshmen. I thought he got caught with a small sample size and going through a bad stretch with a low sample will really hurt your percentages.

Likewise, I’m not completely convinced he’s a 34% shooter. He just doesn’t shoot enough. He attempted 2.3 threes per game. I know you’ll disagree but small sample sizes can be deceiving. However, credit to him. In the end he attempted more and shot it better. I think if he attempted 120 3s, he would be around a 30% 3PT shooter.

RJ could get his shot off against taller players because his setup and trigger were quick enough. Cadeau is much more of a set shooter. I recall Ty Lawson was similar then he was able to quicken his shot as a Jr and was able to shoot off the dribble more. But Ty was also a better shooter than Cadeau was. Joel always had a quick enough trigger too.

If it’s Cadeau-Trimble backcourt, it will be another year of hoping that they shoot it well enough. And hoping they’re willing shooters. Neither was the case this season.

 

[gary-7]

Cadeau, Seth, Powell (whichever ones return) need to improve on getting their shots off faster. Seth gets away with it because he elevated high enough but it doesnt matter because he’s a very poor jump shooter. But with how slow those 3 get off their shots, they eliminate the pull up in game situations.

Cadeau especially. He takes time to think then trigger. That process needs to be quicker. Powell is longer so his setup will take longer. But he had 0 chance in the iso pullups against Ole Miss when he got a switch. All 3 have shots that are easy to contest because they take forever to get their shot off.

Regarding Cadeau’s shooting. I never thought he was an 18% shooter like he showed as a freshmen. I thought he got caught with a small sample size and going through a bad stretch with a low sample will really hurt your percentages.

Likewise, I’m not completely convinced he’s a 34% shooter. He just doesn’t shoot enough. He attempted 2.3 threes per game. I know you’ll disagree but small sample sizes can be deceiving. However, credit to him. In the end he attempted more and shot it better. I think if he attempted 120 3s, he would be around a 30% 3PT shooter.

RJ could get his shot off against taller players because his setup and trigger were quick enough. Cadeau is much more of a set shooter. I recall Ty Lawson was similar then he was able to quicken his shot as a Jr and was able to shoot off the dribble more. But Ty was also a better shooter than Cadeau was. Joel always had a quick enough trigger too.

If it’s Cadeau-Trimble backcourt, it will be another year of hoping that they shoot it well enough. And hoping they’re willing shooters. Neither was the case this season.

You're right about the hesitation issue. But EC is and should be at least a mid-30% 3-pt shooter. His rotation is too good not to be. The only things that have held him back is confidence (not hesitating) and the body mechanics I mentoned.

As for defense, an EC, Seth, Drake perimeter would be a holy terror to play against (as we saw during parts of the Friday comeback). The question would be on the offensve end, and that starts with Seth in particular.

 

[gary-7]

Thanks I hope so.

Circling back to your question about the portal earlier, it's amazing (and disorienting) just how much the internal process has changed. It's not just whether a player wants to come back anymore, it's often as much about whether he's wanted back, and if so, what the program is willing to pay.

So yeah, it's not always re-recruiting. Sometimes it's more like the tone of friggin MLB arbitration --- if you're familiar with that --- where your people are telling the team how much you're worth, while the team's GM is telling them how much you ain't...

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Was just having that same conversation with a friend. Spending days or weeks dreading the next alert is not my idea of fun.

It could be fun if it didn't drag out so long.

But it's what we've got until we start getting pickup game reports.

 

[big_deez]

And the ncaa does love those

$$

 

[big_deez]

Let's be clear and also put some faulty narratives to rest while we're at it:
':
The only defensive deficit in that combo (other than their collective size) was on RJ's end. EC has successfully turned himself into a legit "plus" defender at Point. His footwork is night-and-day improved from his freshman season, and thus his Stop Rate is excellent, as is his propensity to disrupt and cause TOs. And, in a time where it's become more difficult to do so, EC drew more offensive fouls this season than the entire rest of our roster combined.

Eliot's next step of improvement is indeed on the shooting end, but perhaps not specifically where some would say. I doubt many fans are aware that his 3-pt shooting closed at just under 34% for this season --- a huge jump from last season's awful 19%. No reason that can't get closer to 40% going forward.

Where he needs to focus most now is on the MID-RANGE game --- floaters and especially pull-ups. A smallish Guard who can create one of those (almost literally) anytime he wants it, needs to be close to automatic there. I mean, look at Joel and RJ as examples.

And on a similar note, he needs to be shooting 80% FTs at a minimum. He gets to the rack and draws fouls --- so gotta cash in. There's no excuse for a guy with his ball rotation shooting 67% from the line. And from what I see. the causal issue in both of the above areas is inconsistent mechanics in squaring up and lower body motion. Time to get that fixed and he has a summer to do so.

Bottom line is that EC, as I have said before, "ain't normal". He is a play-making and passing savant and a PG with an off-the-charts basketball IQ --- the type you build a team aroumd. Let's hope that is what we see in the coming weeks.

Yes sir, good stuff.

 

[alabamaheel]

Circling back to your question about the portal earlier, it's amazing (and disorienting) just how much the internal process has changed. It's not just whether a player wants to come back anymore, it's often as much about whether he's wanted back, and if so, what the program is willing to pay.

So yeah, it's not always re-recruiting. Sometimes it's more like the tone of friggin MLB arbitration --- if you're familiar with that --- where your people are telling the team how much you're worth, while the team's GM is telling them how much you ain't...

Oh yes unfortunately that’s the box that’s been opened. I definitely feel like an old man hollering get off my grass, while trying to make since of all of the recent changes. All while reminiscing how spoiled we have been for years with a great program.

 

[NathanFielder]

You're right about the hesitation issue. But EC is and should be at least a mid-30% 3-pt shooter. His rotation is too good not to be. The only things that have held him back is confidence (not hesitating) and the body mechanics I mentoned.

As for defense, an EC, Seth, Drake perimeter would be a holy terror to play against (as we saw during parts of the Friday comeback). The question would be on the offensve end, and that starts with Seth in particular.

Where the F was this all season? I don’t care that the ball went in. Just the 0 hesitation, quick trigger and looked instinctive.

I get the Notre Dame 3 was against the clock so he couldnt wait and just had to shoot. But that one too.

Side note, Hubert really needs to be as vague as possible on players in offseason quotes. I’ll help “__________ has worked really hard this offseason. We’re excited for him.” Just say that about everybody.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree that upgrading the talent is the priority. But I think that's in part the priority because Hubert isn't one of those coaches that will consistently max out his roster. I think there's a ceiling on Hubert that's lower than the coaches he will be competing with. My concern is UNC goes into most games against good opponents at some sort of disadvantage on the sidelines.

If that's how it has to be because having a UNC guy as the head coach is that important, then fine. I will lower my expectations then. If that's not the absolute factor that is made out to be, my question is purely whether or not you can upgrade from Hubert.

And let's be completely honest right now. Hubert has job security going into next season for a main reason. There isn't a UNC guy who is definitively a better option than him right now. Right now, UNC has decided to shrink its options to where Hubert is the only realistic option they have. They better hope their gamble pays off.

Can I ask one question? It seems that you want a lot of the players to return. Off the top of my head (and correct me if I'm wrong) you want Cadeau back, Trimble back, Powell back (assuming if no NBA), Washington back(?), Lubin back at a bench role, Brown back, and High to return. Yet you said the issues were the talent and the chemistry. So do you think it's more just getting a good C1, playing Seth at the 2 so everyone can be at their normal positions, fill out the bench with a true PG2 and we'll be good? So mainly we're talking 2 portal additions away from being good?

I'm just trying to get where you stand. I would assume that if this team has a talent problem, they need to upgrade in many areas. But that's why I'm asking you.

Yes, I do want Cadeau/DRake/Seth/JWash/Brown/High back, I want Lubin back as well but I have serous doubts that will happen.

Is there a single person on this board that does not see that our primary #1 need for next season is to get BOTH longer and physically stronger at the center position and that has to be done thru this portal. Do you disagree? I want 2 big men from this portal, we could maybe get by with just 1 but to be safe I want 2. Get's to be a bit of a log jam in the front court on the face of it but I am expecting some attrition of my list of want back players. I do think we will lose at least 1 of JWash/High/Brown, most likely JWash, that would be a shame IMO. But at least 1 of that trio is not going to be putting in the work in S/C that ALL 3 dramatically need, that information from what I understand will going forward be reported to the GM and head coach to assist their portal needs.

Most of guys coming back that I want is about having them at their real playing positions, Drake at the 3, JWash at the 4, Seth at the 2, lose this fiction of position-less ball, there is no such thing, never has been. There are players that can play multiple positions for sure and there are players whose college playing position is different than they will play in the NBA. But a position-less team is a pipe dream that may work in some video game but not in real life. JWash may be the tallest guy we had this past season but being tall didn't make him a center any more than being small made RJ anything but a shooting guard. Sure, I would have tested them out at the positions their size made them look to fit but that would take maybe a game or 2 at the most and frankly, that should have been discovered before the first exhibition game.

I would much rather we fixed the problems of he guys we have rather than replace them if we can. The list of guys I want back are fixable other than Lubin. No disrespect at all toward Lubin when I say that, kid can not help that he is 6'7-8" and not built like Kennedy Meeks. We MUST get longer and physically stouter at the 5 spot and that means Lubin is not our starting 5, Wilson is on the way and that means Lubin is not our starting 4. Hubert has been clear, he wants his 4s to be stretchable, did you happen to notice Lubin shooting treys, he has a nice mid range but that isn't the stretchable Hubert is looking for but JWash may well be a stretchable back up for Wilson. Lubin has earned a better situation than being the 3rd guy at the 4 spot, he should hit the portal and teams will line up for him. Hard decisions simply have to be made and this one will be hard.

The 2 combo freshmen coming in, like them both but just not sure if they re going to be ready to play much next season. The some what mystery men are High and James Brown, I really liked the brief appears from Brown this season, that kid has something, he could grow in to a version of Bacot. High, have no idea what we have there, heard good things over last off season but I know better than to totally trust that kind of stuff.

 

[alabamaheel]

Yes, I do want Cadeau/DRake/Seth/JWash/Brown/High back, I want Lubin back as well but I have serous doubts that will happen.

Is there a single person on this board that does not see that our primary #1 need for next season is to get BOTH longer and physically stronger at the center position and that has to be done thru this portal. Do you disagree? I want 2 big men from this portal, we could maybe get by with just 1 but to be safe I want 2. Get's to be a bit of a log jam in the front court on the face of it but I am expecting some attrition of my list of want back players. I do think we will lose at least 1 of JWash/High/Brown, most likely JWash, that would be a shame IMO. But at least 1 of that trio is not going to be putting in the work in S/C that ALL 3 dramatically need, that information from what I understand will going forward be reported to the GM and head coach to assist their portal needs.

Most of guys coming back that I want is about having them at their real playing positions, Drake at the 3, JWash at the 4, Seth at the 2, lose this fiction of position-less ball, there is no such thing, never has been. There are players that can play multiple positions for sure and there are players whose college playing position is different than they will play in the NBA. But a position-less team is a pipe dream that may work in some video game but not in real life. JWash may be the tallest guy we had this past season but being tall didn't make him a center any more than being small made RJ anything but a shooting guard. Sure, I would have tested them out at the positions their size made them look to fit but that would take maybe a game or 2 at the most and frankly, that should have been discovered before the first exhibition game.

I would much rather we fixed the problems of he guys we have rather than replace them if we can. The list of guys I want back are fixable other than Lubin. No disrespect at all toward Lubin when I say that, kid can not help that he is 6'7-8" and not built like Kennedy Meeks. We MUST get longer and physically stouter at the 5 spot and that means Lubin is not our starting 5, Wilson is on the way and that means Lubin is not our starting 4. Hubert has been clear, he wants his 4s to be stretchable, did you happen to notice Lubin shooting treys, he has a nice mid range but that isn't the stretchable Hubert is looking for but JWash may well be a stretchable back up for Wilson. Lubin has earned a better situation than being the 3rd guy at the 4 spot, he should hit the portal and teams will line up for him. Hard decisions simply have to be made and this one will be hard.

The 2 combo freshmen coming in, like them both but just not sure if they re going to be ready to play much next season. The some what mystery men are High and James Brown, I really liked the brief appears from Brown this season, that kid has something, he could grow in to a version of Bacot. High, have no idea what we have there, heard good things over last off season but I know better than to totally trust that kind of stuff.

I don’t think wash was played at the 5 for his size. I think he was played there because he couldn’t keep up with a 4 on defense. Also the typical 4 today can stretch and shoot, which he can do, but can also put the ball on the floor with some muscle and move peeps around, which he didn’t do.

 

[DSouthr]

Let's be clear and also put some faulty narratives to rest while we're at it:
':
The only defensive deficit in that combo (other than their collective size) was on RJ's end. EC has successfully turned himself into a legit "plus" defender at Point. His footwork is night-and-day improved from his freshman season, and thus his Stop Rate is excellent, as is his propensity to disrupt and cause TOs. And, in a time where it's become more difficult to do so, EC drew more offensive fouls this season than the entire rest of our roster combined.

Eliot's next step of improvement is indeed on the shooting end, but perhaps not specifically where some would say. I doubt many fans are aware that his 3-pt shooting closed at just under 34% for this season --- a huge jump from last season's awful 19%. No reason that can't get closer to 40% going forward.

Where he needs to focus most now is on the MID-RANGE game --- floaters and especially pull-ups. A smallish Guard who can create one of those (almost literally) anytime he wants it, needs to be close to automatic there. I mean, look at Joel and RJ as examples.

And on a similar note, he needs to be shooting 80% FTs at a minimum. He gets to the rack and draws fouls --- so gotta cash in. There's no excuse for a guy with his ball rotation shooting 67% from the line. And from what I see. the causal issue in both of the above areas is inconsistent mechanics in squaring up and lower body motion. Time to get that fixed and he has a summer to do so.

Bottom line is that EC, as I have said before, "ain't normal". He is a play-making and passing savant and a PG with an off-the-charts basketball IQ --- the type you build a team aroumd. Let's hope that is what we see in the coming weeks.

gary, Cdeau's three point attempts this season were practice court jumpers, he was invited to shoot them as opposed to being guarded to try to stop him from shooting them. His individual offensive game right now is limited to hard drives thru the paint and finishing high off the back board. Can't just gloss over that by saying he was a 34% 3pt shooter?

 

[gary-7]

gary, Cdeau's three point attempts this season were practice court jumpers, he was invited to shoot them as opposed to being guarded to try to stop him from shooting them. His individual offensive game right now is limited to hard drives thru the paint and finishing high off the back board. Can't just gloss over that by saying he was a 34% 3pt shooter?

There was no glossing anything over --- like somehow his numbers can't be real, because... what?... it's what the narrative has dictated? In fact, many of the attempts you were referring to were thus taken out of rhythm which actually lowers your expected percentage.

Come on, man. Everything I posted is accurate, and I'm not sure why there's any good reason to try to mitigate that.

 

[DSouthr]

I don’t think wash was played at the 5 for his size. I think he was played there because he couldn’t keep up with a 4 on defense. Also the typical 4 today can stretch and shoot, which he can do, but can also put the ball on the floor with some muscle and move peeps around, which he didn’t do.

The ONLY position JWash has been allowed to play has been the 5 and there has not been a single indication that he can handle the physicality at the 5, proven yet again vs Miss. How do we know he can't play the 4 if we have not seen him at the 4?

Let me flip the question and ask myself, why do I think he can play the 4, fair? First off, the kid can jump shoot, we FINALLY saw some of that very late season but he was very hesitant to jump shoot for most of the season, why? I think it was a couple things, first it did not look to me like Jalen was looked at as much more than the 5th option to score when he did play, there was little if any focus to get hyim off as a jump shooter. For example, I watched multiple games where Hubert put Tyson in and you could clearly see it was a major focus to get him clean looks, even when he passed shots up Hubert was screaming at him to shoot, did you even once see Jalen given that? If you are the 5th option to score you stop thinking of scoring and focus more on other things.

Second, Jalen seemed to lose his confidence in his shooting, started off this season shooting some and scoring some but he missed several clean shots on that Maui trip and it seemed to drain his confidence, you could see it in his face. And 3rd, he seemed really worried stepping outside that we had no inside rebounding. I saw that clearly when he started setting those ghost screens, by ghost screens I am talking about a half hearted screen making zero contact with the guy he is supposed to screen, as if he could not get back deep paint quick enough.

In addition to being a shooter, Jalen is a heck of a lot of length to just shoot over, he does not have ot get as close on a close out as a Seth for example does. Most 4s are not as physical as centers and very few have the kind of length Jalen can bring.

 

[DSouthr]

There was no glossing anything over --- like somehow his numbers can't be real, because... what?... it's what the narrative has dictated? In fact, many of the attempts you were referring to were thus taken out of rhythm which actually lowers your expected percentage.

Come on, man. Everything I posted is accurate, and I'm not sure why there's any good reason to try to mitigate that.

I am not mitigating anything gary, I am simply saying his treys were not contested and the were not, they were invited, you know that.

Per the stats on this site RJ shot treys at 33.6% for the season, Cadeau shot treys at 31.2% rather close to each other in the season % but no where close to the types of looks they got for their treys. How in the world can Cadeau be shooting treys out of rhythm when he is standing all by himself with the ball in his hands and no defender even trying to stop him from taking the shot?

If you are going to try to convince me that Cadeau is an even average acceptable 3pt shooter then you are going to have to explain to me why he was so consistently left wide open to shoot them. Gary, you know darn well that if you coached against this UNC team that you would have made Cadeau, Seth, JWit, and Drake not just prove they could hit consistent treys but they would have to keep proving it to you, just like me. You nor i would do that against a good jump shooter.

 

[alabamaheel]

The ONLY position JWash has been allowed to play has been the 5 and there has not been a single indication that he can handle the physicality at the 5, proven yet again vs Miss. How do we know he can't play the 4 if we have not seen him at the 4?

Let me flip the question and ask myself, why do I think he can play the 4, fair? First off, the kid can jump shoot, we FINALLY saw some of that very late season but he was very hesitant to jump shoot for most of the season, why? I think it was a couple things, first it did not look to me like Jalen was looked at as much more than the 5th option to score when he did play, there was little if any focus to get hyim off as a jump shooter. For example, I watched multiple games where Hubert put Tyson in and you could clearly see it was a major focus to get him clean looks, even when he passed shots up Hubert was screaming at him to shoot, did you even once see Jalen given that? If you are the 5th option to score you stop thinking of scoring and focus more on other things.

Second, Jalen seemed to lose his confidence in his shooting, started off this season shooting some and scoring some but he missed several clean shots on that Maui trip and it seemed to drain his confidence, you could see it in his face. And 3rd, he seemed really worried stepping outside that we had no inside rebounding. I saw that clearly when he started setting those ghost screens, by ghost screens I am talking about a half hearted screen making zero contact with the guy he is supposed to screen, as if he could not get back deep paint quick enough.

In addition to being a shooter, Jalen is a heck of a lot of length to just shoot over, he does not have ot get as close on a close out as a Seth for example does. Most 4s are not as physical as centers and very few have the kind of length Jalen can bring.

I definitely agree about his shooting skills and I think he could have done a lot better at the four than what we got at times lol. His mobility on defense is what I would worry about most. I would love to see him take a leap of confidence next year, and I think with another year of experience he could do just that. With that said, I also believe the major leg injuries that he’s dealt with has changed his game Abilities tremendously and not for the better. I believe it was dtodd that had seen him play quite a bit and had the same thoughts. I do agree that Hubert should have taken advantage of his shooting skills a lot more.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I want Lubin back as well but I have serous doubts that will happen.

If Hubert lands 2 starter-quality bigs, there's still a place for Lubin. But maybe not enough NIL to match what other teams might offer him. And maybe not enough PT to keep him happy.

If Hubert only lands 1 starter-quality big, and if we aren't too cheap with NIL, he should stay. He's been productive for us. No reason that won't continue even if we have a better balanced team.

I'd be really curious to know what conversations he and Hubert are having.

 

[DSouthr]

I definitely agree about his shooting skills and I think he could have done a lot better at the four than what we got at times lol. His mobility on defense is what I would worry about most. I would love to see him take a leap of confidence next year, and I think with another year of experience he could do just that. With that said, I also believe the major leg injuries that he’s dealt with has changed his game Abilities tremendously and not for the better. I believe it was dtodd that had seen him play quite a bit and had the same thoughts. I do agree that Hubert should have taken advantage of his shooting skills a lot more.

You concern about his mobility is a point well played, I won't argue other wise. I would suggest his length allows him to have less space top have to make up for than a less lengthy guy. I would as well add that I am talking in terms of his backing up Wilson, not him as a starting 4.

 

[DSouthr]

If Hubert lands 2 starter-quality bigs, there's still a place for Lubin. But maybe not enough NIL to match what other teams might offer him. And maybe not enough PT to keep him happy.

If Hubert only lands 1 starter-quality big, and if we aren't too cheap with NIL, he should stay. He's been productive for us. No reason that won't continue even if we have a better balanced team.

I'd be really curious to know what conversations he and Hubert are having.

WW, I did say it would be a hard choice, I have nothing but respect for that kid, he blue collar battled his butt off in the face of being towered over. But 2 scenes from the last duke game run thru my head. 1 was Lubin standing next to Maluch, Lubin's head came to the guys shoulders, can you imagine having to battle that? And the other was Lubin standing next to dukes PG, they looked really close in height.

I do think Lubin has earned more in both money as well as minutes than we should be able to give him. Even if we get only 1 big man (I will say this again, I want 2) we still have High and Brown both at 6'10" and both have a lot of potential and should be rather inexpensive nor demand a ton of minutes..

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Does anyone have any sense of what Brown or High might give us next year?

Early in the year, on very limited minutes, Brown sometimes showed a few flashes. Unfortunately, later in the year, on similarly limited minutes, he showed fewer flashes. Too few minutes to read anything into that.

High has had a year off. What did he do with that year? I hope he's been on the Hansbrough diet and workout plan.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

You concern about his mobility is a point well played, I won't argue other wise. I would suggest his length allows him to have less space top have to make up for than a less lengthy guy. I would as well add that I am talking in terms of his backing up Wilson, not him as a starting 4.

I can't help but wonder what Boeheim would have done with JWash. As a stretch 4 (or 5) on a team that plays zone, who knows what his ceiling might be? That wouldn't fix his motor, but it might fix everything else.

Are there any top programs these days that play a lot of zone? If I'm JWash's agent, I'm calling them up.

 

[DSouthr]

Does anyone have any sense of what Brown or High might give us next year?

Early in the year, on very limited minutes, Brown sometimes showed a few flashes. Unfortunately, later in the year, on similarly limited minutes, he showed fewer flashes. Too few minutes to read anything into that.

High has had a year off. What did he do with that year? I hope he's been on the Hansbrough diet and workout plan.

All I can tell you is that I was pleasantly surprised with Brown, I expected much less than what I saw. I like the way he moves, seems to have decent instincts, like his activity. I didn't see anything close to a scoring move from him, he seemed to want to battle, I like that.

On High, who knows, heard good things from the last off season but those summer rumors are not really trust worthy. The brief glimpses of him as a frosh showed he had a bit of a chip on his shoulders, liked that. He seemed to believe strongly that he was a jump shooter but his shot just did not look solid to me. He was just so thin that I just don't know what level of skill is really there. He has the attitude but does he have the ability to get enough meat on his bones to win the fight rather than just wade in to it?

 

[DaveChapelle]

Washington and Lubin are both poor defenders. Zone defense would certainly help hide those flaws.

Though I have to laugh at anyone who still thinks Washington is a stretch 4. He can't dribble against pressure. He can't dribble drive to score. He shoots a poor percentage from 3 (and from the FT line.) He can't defend the perimeter. He can't chase guys around screens. He can't stay in front of his man to stop the dribble drive. He does none of the things required of the modern stretch 4.

 

[NathanFielder]

Yes, I do want Cadeau/DRake/Seth/JWash/Brown/High back, I want Lubin back as well but I have serous doubts that will happen.

Is there a single person on this board that does not see that our primary #1 need for next season is to get BOTH longer and physically stronger at the center position and that has to be done thru this portal. Do you disagree? I want 2 big men from this portal, we could maybe get by with just 1 but to be safe I want 2. Get's to be a bit of a log jam in the front court on the face of it but I am expecting some attrition of my list of want back players. I do think we will lose at least 1 of JWash/High/Brown, most likely JWash, that would be a shame IMO. But at least 1 of that trio is not going to be putting in the work in S/C that ALL 3 dramatically need, that information from what I understand will going forward be reported to the GM and head coach to assist their portal needs.

Most of guys coming back that I want is about having them at their real playing positions, Drake at the 3, JWash at the 4, Seth at the 2, lose this fiction of position-less ball, there is no such thing, never has been. There are players that can play multiple positions for sure and there are players whose college playing position is different than they will play in the NBA. But a position-less team is a pipe dream that may work in some video game but not in real life. JWash may be the tallest guy we had this past season but being tall didn't make him a center any more than being small made RJ anything but a shooting guard. Sure, I would have tested them out at the positions their size made them look to fit but that would take maybe a game or 2 at the most and frankly, that should have been discovered before the first exhibition game.

I would much rather we fixed the problems of he guys we have rather than replace them if we can. The list of guys I want back are fixable other than Lubin. No disrespect at all toward Lubin when I say that, kid can not help that he is 6'7-8" and not built like Kennedy Meeks. We MUST get longer and physically stouter at the 5 spot and that means Lubin is not our starting 5, Wilson is on the way and that means Lubin is not our starting 4. Hubert has been clear, he wants his 4s to be stretchable, did you happen to notice Lubin shooting treys, he has a nice mid range but that isn't the stretchable Hubert is looking for but JWash may well be a stretchable back up for Wilson. Lubin has earned a better situation than being the 3rd guy at the 4 spot, he should hit the portal and teams will line up for him. Hard decisions simply have to be made and this one will be hard.

The 2 combo freshmen coming in, like them both but just not sure if they re going to be ready to play much next season. The some what mystery men are High and James Brown, I really liked the brief appears from Brown this season, that kid has something, he could grow in to a version of Bacot. High, have no idea what we have there, heard good things over last off season but I know better than to totally trust that kind of stuff.

I'll start my response by saying that next season is really important. It's essentially going to set up the next 5, maybe 8 years of UNC basketball right? If it's another flop of a season like this one was, then UNC's going to be looking for a new head coach. If next year is a good one, considering Hubert is a UNC guy, he's going to be afforded another 4+ years of job security right? That's what I'm thinking. So I don't want to mess around and hope that current guys from a really mediocre team will suddenly figure it out or get a lot better and run it back. I would rather bring in some established guys with established skills that this team desperately needs.

I'm not sure if the problems are all that fixable. I don't think Washington is a starting level 4 or 5 if you have visions of doing anything serious. He's simply a player UNC needs to upgrade from IMO.

Will Seth's jump shot get fixed over an offseason? Idk, maybe? But it's 3 years now of his jumper being what his jumper is... A minus level skill. I'm open to bring him back but I view him more as a modern day Jackie Manuel-type. He's a 4th or 5th option on a good team. Probably a 5th or 6th option on a Final Four team. And realistically Cadeau is already like a 4th or 5th option if this team has enough talent next season. Any talk of being any degree dependent on his offensive production next season isn't a good sign IMO.

Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to James Brown or Zayden High. I have no idea what they will become. I would personally rather have players that we know who they are. There hasn't been a lot of bigs who've developed at all under this coaching staff. Are Brown and High naturally gifted enough to be impact players despite the evidence of lack of big men development? Your guess is as good as mine. I like Drake Powell a lot. But again, we're talking about maybe a 4th offensive option and maybe a 3rd if he takes a leap.

So this team is made up a lot of 4th, 5th, or 6th options. IMO, they need to upgrade a lot. This is why I want to see what the roster is before I make any declarations on Cadeau. No one on this roster has earned the right to be thought as irreplaceable IMO.

 

[alabamaheel]

You concern about his mobility is a point well played, I won't argue other wise. I would suggest his length allows him to have less space top have to make up for than a less lengthy guy. I would as well add that I am talking in terms of his backing up Wilson, not him as a starting 4.

I’ve learned something in the past several years Dav. I don’t care what anyone says about a kid until we see it on the court and in a game. IMO Wilson is absolutely no different from this standard. Freshmen are just that, first year guys vying for a spot. I thought Ian would have done a lot more. He and drake both have the tools. That’s a whole other conversation lol. I honestly don’t think any of our guys are reaching or tapping into their whole potential under our current situation.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

All I can tell you is that I was pleasantly surprised with Brown, I expected much less than what I saw. I like the way he moves, seems to have decent instincts, like his activity. I didn't see anything close to a scoring move from him, he seemed to want to battle, I like that.

On High, who knows, heard good things from the last off season but those summer rumors are not really trust worthy. The brief glimpses of him as a frosh showed he had a bit of a chip on his shoulders, liked that. He seemed to believe strongly that he was a jump shooter but his shot just did not look solid to me. He was just so thin that I just don't know what level of skill is really there. He has the attitude but does he have the ability to get enough meat on his bones to win the fight rather than just wade in to it?

Was he allowed to work with our S&C guys last year? He was listed as 6'9 225 last year. If he put on 15 pounds of muscle....

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I’ve learned something in the past several years Dav. I don’t care what anyone says about a kid until we see it on the court and in a game. IMO Wilson is absolutely no different from this standard. Freshmen are just that, first year guys vying for a spot. I thought Ian would have done a lot more. He and drake both have the tools. That’s a whole other conversation lol. I honestly don’t think any of our guys are reaching or tapping into their whole potential under our current situation.

This is my top concern with Hubert and his staff: development. Most players develop over the course of a season. That was true for some of our guys this season. But which of our guys developed more than average? Any?

Hubert has shown he can win with enough top quality, ready-to-go players. Give him Armandos, Bradys and Harrisons and he'll figure it out. So maybe development isn't really the problem I think it is - assuming our "throw money at it" approach is successful in assembling a solid team of proven players. But if we end up with a team of players with more "upside" than proven ability, I'm not sure this coaching staff is right for developing them into contenders.

 

[DSouthr]

Was he allowed to work with our S&C guys last year? He was listed as 6'9 225 last year. If he put on 15 pounds of muscle....

Well I would say kind of yes and kind of no. For a period of time he was not enrolled at UNC so he would not been allowed to use UNC facilities. He then enrolled and became a regular student, not a team member but as a student would have access to the facilities all students have. Having full fleddged access to the S/C coaching, the nutritionist, ect, I doubt he had that level of access.

So,l kinda yes and kinda no.

 

[gberry78]

Will be interesting to see what High does. On the TOS a poster said he was never going to be allowed back? Also saw he is very close with EC & that was a reason he stuck around.(they were roommates if I am not mistaken) Don’t really know what to think with all the EC speculation going around. I liked High’s competitiveness but acknowledge his propensity to commit fouls .. hate we didn’t get to see a sophomore jump from him

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

hate we didn’t get to see a sophomore jump from him

I agree but your comment made me wonder about sophomore jumps under Hubert. I'm not sure they exist. A few players improved as sophs on Hubert's watch, but any real "jumps"? And more didn't improve much or at all as sophs on Hubert's watch

 

[Indy_Heel]

Hes one of the best athletes in the country. If we had crazy firepower on the rest of the court he could get by playing the jackie manuel role. When hes on the court with Cadeau its pretty easy to guard us

His season changed after his Concussion. Shooting percentage really dropped off

 

[dtodd4475]

I think most are freaking out about what 95% of the teams are going through this year. The portal is a reload since all are free agents.

I do think we need a modern game, that means shooting it. Seth and Elliot is not that as guards. I'm hoping Drake stays, other than that, ok, but we are spending this year in the portal, and a revamp is happening. As is happening everywhere to an extent. Look at Kentucky this year, total revamp. Style of play matters for those wanting to play in the Association. Relax and watch the off season. Got to find good matches, as does each player have to find their best match.