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NFL 2018-19

strummingram said:
People calling it the worst no-call in the history of the NFL
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Possibly, if you consider what was at stake.

However, I will say that all the talking heads shouldn't assume Saints would've won. Sure, they have first and goal with 1:30 - 1:45 to go. But they could turn it over, have a FG blocked, you never know. Remember that Viking kicker that shanked a chip shot a few years ago? Anything could happen. Or what if they scored a TD on the next play, and the Rams still had enough time to score a TD and tie it up anyway?
 
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i actually admire what that org has done...anytime you can make the playoffs is great, but the patriots have taken that to the next level.

for some reason, i don’t hate them like i did the 49ers...i’ll watch this sb like i did the bucs/raiders.
 
gteeitup said:
@Heelicious you okay with kitna as qb coach, kellen moore as oc, and garrett calling plays?
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@gteeitup: Kitna a tepid yes; Moore hard NO; Garrett ever harder NO.
How about you? I think Kitna was QB for Seattle quite a while, right? And Dallas a couple years? Is he some OC in a different football league now?
How can the Cowboys not do better than Moore and Garrett? Garrett hadn't been successful calling plays in the past - how is him calling plays any part of the solution? I trust his decision making very little. And what has Moore done to PROVE he is a legit OC? He has been QB coach, but I don't think you can even say Dak has improved the last couple years in QB mechanics, decision making, etc. Dak is inaccurate and turns the ball over a lot. Some of that has to be on the QB coach.
What - in any of these guys already on staff - shows Jerry or anyone else evidence that they can evolve and learn and become more like the high scoring offenses, more run-pass-option, like KC, San Diego, Seattle, LA? I feel like these guys will just be more of the same, and more weak empty excuse making after next year.
Except for Kitna, these are some of the guys who had the Cowboys at something like 28th-30th in red zone efficiency, bottom quarter in 3rd down conversion, bottom quarter in points scored.
With Jerry's money - can't he find anyone to lure away from a big-scoring college, or some OC from another NFL team?
I think the "Romo is football god" thing has been a bit overdone, though he is smart and knows the game inside out..... but there's no question in my mind he'd be better as OC than Moore, better at play calling than Garrett. At least he gets that you have to score a lot of points because the league rules favor offense especially passing over defense so much. And maybe he could help Dak be a better mechanics, more accurate passer, and better passing decision maker.
What do you think?
 
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i think it’s odd garrett hasn’t gotten an extension yet...the main reason, imo, is because the org is laying everything at his feet in a do or die year...this is what i wanted for fedora, “his team, his scheme, call the plays”...now the extension could still happen, or none of this could, but it’s looking like this is it.

having said that, kitna is hc at some prep school and they are “innovative” per some...yes, he had a short stint in dallas as romo’s backup and is a good dude that might be great as an up and coming coach...i’m cool with it.

when moore was rumored over the weekend, all these videos started surfacing about the offense he ran at boise(go check out that stuff)...lots of pre-snap motions, unbalanced lines, “confusing stuff” as he notes to take advantage of matchups; ie rams, saints, chiefs...i’m okay with it as long as it’s true...allow him to install that offense.

garrett as play-caller...yep, all-in...might as well allow him to go down with it if it goes poorly.
 
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gteeitup said:
i think it’s odd garrett hasn’t gotten an extension yet...the main reason, imo, is because the org is laying everything at his feet in a do or die year...this is what i wanted for fedora, “his team, his scheme, call the plays”...now the extension could still happen, or none of this could, but it’s looking like this is it.

having said that, kitna is hc at some prep school and they are “innovative” per some...yes, he had a short stint in dallas as romo’s backup and is a good dude that might be great as an up and coming coach...i’m cool with it.

when moore was rumored over the weekend, all these videos started surfacing about the offense he ran at boise(go check out that stuff)...lots of pre-snap motions, unbalanced lines, “confusing stuff” as he notes to take advantage of matchups; ie rams, saints, chiefs...i’m okay with it as long as it’s true...allow him to install that offense.

garrett as play-caller...yep, all-in...might as well allow him to go down with it if it goes poorly.
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I read a bit more on these potential moves after your first post further above.
There is a case that can be made for Garrett having done OK when he was calling plays in the past.
And I am not giving Moore enough credit I guess for how smart he is, and able to run a complex offense. So - I just hope whoever is coaching Dak is specific and real and honest, harsh, challenging, demanding of Dak about the things he has to get a lot better at (I think his accuracy and turnover rate both suck right now).....
and whoever is running the offense goes beyond the no motion, no creativity in how you use all your weapons, less "dive Zeke between the tackles on every first down, every short yardage play".
I am ready to give these guys a shot. A lot of "no name" guys obviously are no-name until the people on the inside find them and give them a chance. You could say that about guys like McVay at LA, Tomlin at Pittsburgh, etc. I sure don't want some big-name guy who is well-known in the social / fan circles but hasn't proven himself to the Cowboys insiders daily over several years. It does sound like Moore is a natural coach, with his dad being a coach, and Moore himself being quite smart, complex offensive mind, and successful at Boise State like you mentioned.

Was he the QB at Boise? I mean - he hasn't been the coach there, has he? I assume he's only been the backup at Dallas, then on the staff.

One funny note that just popped into my head. Sometimes I hear people say Aikman should come back and coach the Cowboys in some capacity (OC, head coach, etc). Wow that makes me cringe. That is my example of who NOT to choose just because he is "known" to casual fans.

I love that Aikman led the Cowboys to 3 Superbowls, and all he did for them as a very good (great?) quarterback. But to listen to Aikman announce games now, and break down plays, compared to Romo, just in knowledge of the game, reading defenses, etc. it is embarrassing. Romo wins the football / offense intelligence (and in being articulate and listenable, funny, engaging, charming).... by an embarrassing (for Aikman) blowout IMO. Aikman has so many crutch phrases that are old and worn out, I can barely listen to him anymore.
 
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agree...not an aikman tv fan at all.

moore was the qb at boise st and the qb coach last year.

check this out when you have time:

 
I've heard a bit of rumbling about people trying to get last two minutes - or whole game - of NO / LA replayed because of the (admittedly atrocious) call at end of the game.

Saints got royally screwed, but they must be delusional if they think this game or part of it even can be replayed. That would open up a horrible precedent.

There should be some consequences including firing the official(s) whose responsibility it was to make the call; change the rule to make these plays reviewable for overturn; etc. (there were calls in the KC / NE game where the officials need to be graded poorly and have consequences against them too, IMO...)

but I just don't see how there is any way they could replay the game or part of it. People would want almost every close game with a questionable call fairly late in the game, replayed.
 
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Heelicious said:
Saints got royally screwed, but they must be delusional if they think this game or part of it even can be replayed. That would open up a horrible precedent.
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Plus, people assume the NFL wants to get it right. They don't. The NFL is so much happier to have the Rams in the Super Bowl than the Saints. The young upstart coach, with the young QB, and all the marketable skill position players the Rams have, a marketable Aaron Donald on the defensive side.

They're pouring money into the new stadium in LA. Supposed to be so state of the art that it makes Jerry World look like a shed. Housing two NFL teams, the NFL network, a second Pro Football Hall of Fame, NFL-themed hotels, etc.

They can't risk the always fickle LA fan-base losing interest in the NFL yet again. It'd be way too costly. The NFL has every incentive to have them hoist the Lombardi trophy next weekend.
 
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heelmanwilm said:
I’d imagine every fan base has some “what if” officiatig horror stories. I know i do as a packer fan. It was a horrible call and prob cost them the game but they still had their chances to win. Part of the game
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You mean like the Dez catch against the Packers in Lambeau in the playoffs a few years back? That call?
;)
Just kidding. For sure every fan can think of bogus calls against their team, and also think that only their team suffers those bad calls, or at least suffers the most egregious ones.

In some ways, you could say that Dez catch / no catch was almost as impactful, though it was earlier in the playoffs, and the (bad rule, wrong) catch interpretation precedent was already out there. It wasn't a complete whiff / miss by the referees.
 
heelmanwilm said:
I’d imagine every fan base has some “what if” officiatig horror stories. I know i do as a packer fan. It was a horrible call and prob cost them the game but they still had their chances to win. Part of the game
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Yes - that is a part that honest Saints fans have to admit. Saints run the ball straight forward or even kneel it three times under the 2:00 mark, and kick the same distance FG (instead of running two clock stopping incomplete pass plays) - and LA then has maybe 30-40 seconds and no time outs. Probably game over.... at least WAY harder to win, than if you have 1:40 and a time out when you get the ball back.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Plus, people assume the NFL wants to get it right. They don't. The NFL is so much happier to have the Rams in the Super Bowl than the Saints. The young upstart coach, with the young QB, and all the marketable skill position players the Rams have, a marketable Aaron Donald on the defensive side.

They're pouring money into the new stadium in LA. Supposed to be so state of the art that it makes Jerry World look like a shed. Housing two NFL teams, the NFL network, a second Pro Football Hall of Fame, NFL-themed hotels, etc.

They can't risk the always fickle LA fan-base losing interest in the NFL yet again. It'd be way too costly. The NFL has every incentive to have them hoist the Lombardi trophy next weekend.
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I think there is some truth to this. Does the NFL want two small market, small national following, teams in the Superbowl, like KC and New Orleans? Or rather huge market, huge draw teams in New England (Boston area) and LA?

I think the case is even stronger that somehow that's how most everything seemed to break the Pats way on Sunday. I hate sounding like a conspiracy guy, because conspiracies are hard to rig. But it does seem that over the years, a non-random amount of "breaks" seem to go the Pats way, all the way back to the infamous tuck rule game against Oakland.
 
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Heelicious said:
I hate sounding like a conspiracy guy, because conspiracies are hard to rig.
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Somewhat. A "don't let Team X lose, no matter what" type conspiracy is hard to rig. But a "anything close, err on the side of Team X" is easier to pull off. Follow the money - that's where their interest always is.

Heelicious said:
But it does seem that over the years, a non-random amount of "breaks" seem to go the Pats way
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Like how they got raked over the coals on SpyGate, and even worse, DeflateGate? ;)

I guess those could have been tossed in there to throw off the scent. I could hear an argument that lately the Patriots may have gotten a break here or there to get them to the Super Bowl. They get big draws. People love to hate them. The NFL can really benefit by having that in its biggest game of the year. Having them win the Super Bowl doesn't help their cause at all. But having them lose it makes their Rams story that much better. If the Rams beat the Chiefs, it's "cool, that new-era high octane offense is better than that other new-era high octane offense, neat." If the Rams beat the Patriots it's "Wow, the changing of the guard! The new-era Rams slayed the Big Bad vaunted Patriots!"
 
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Heelicious said:
@gteeitup - looks like Kris Richard is staying at least for another year. And that Vegas is pretty bearish on Cowboys wins over/under (at 8 or 8.5) next year. If Garrett wins 8 or 9, he's gone for sure. It will be interesting.
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I think the hope of the Cowboys is going to hinge on the O-line. Does Fredrick play again? Can they find help in the draft or free agency?
 
heelmanwilm said:
I’d imagine every fan base has some “what if” officiatig horror stories. I know i do as a packer fan. It was a horrible call and prob cost them the game but they still had their chances to win. Part of the game
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Bingo. Human error was meant to be part of the game. In fact, coaches from years past would probably argue that one of the original teaching moments of sports was how to deal with human error. The bigger lesson that sports used to provide was that, sometimes you get a raw deal. And it’s about not letting that define you or even derail goals. But now sports are so serious. We place far too much value in sports and too much value in “declaring who’s best”, when in reality, it doesn’t really matter. It’s light entertainment, or at least that’s what sports were supposed to be.
 
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Terror Beard said:
Bingo. Human error was meant to be part of the game. In fact, coaches from years past would probably argue that one of the original teaching moments of sports was how to deal with human error. The bigger lesson that sports used to provide was that, sometimes you get a raw deal. And it’s about not letting that define you or even derail goals. But now sports are so serious. We place far too much value in sports and too much value in “declaring who’s best”, when in reality, it doesn’t really matter. It’s light entertainment, or at least that’s what sports were supposed to be.
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5 star post.
I agree so much with the life lessons, dealing with loss and the certain unfairness in everyone's life at some point. I try to use this to teach my kids regarding sports they are in, or that they follow.

Regarding sports as entertainment - I also agree and I just find it so odd, the fact that many pro athletes become totally disconnected from serving their customers (the fans), and making their sporting activity be all about them, including holdouts, demanding huge amounts of money, acting like what they are doing / how they are playing produces some physical product for consumption.

I mean - if times got really hard in this country, some pro sports and the money fans pay for them could go away, and society overall would not be negatively impacted from a physical or economic well being standpoint. I understand that everyone needs releases, entertainment, etc. for mental health...
 
NoleSoup4U said:
I think the hope of the Cowboys is going to hinge on the O-line. Does Fredrick play again? Can they find help in the draft or free agency?
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The condition Fredrick had was a serious muscle / nuerological disorder, but he seems to have recovered well from it. If they get him and Tyron Smith back to 100%, they will be fine on the O line. They'll likely just draft some people in late rounds for backup support. They have a lot of free agent cap money, but I see them going after defensive secondary and WR support if they can. Maybe go get Antonio Brown.
 
Heelicious said:
5 star post.
I agree so much with the life lessons, dealing with loss and the certain unfairness in everyone's life at some point. I try to use this to teach my kids regarding sports they are in, or that they follow.

Regarding sports as entertainment - I also agree and I just find it so odd, the fact that many pro athletes become totally disconnected from serving their customers (the fans), and making their sporting activity be all about them, including holdouts, demanding huge amounts of money, acting like what they are doing / how they are playing produces some physical product for consumption.

I mean - if times got really hard in this country, some pro sports and the money fans pay for them could go away, and society overall would not be negatively impacted from a physical or economic well being standpoint. I understand that everyone needs releases, entertainment, etc. for mental health...
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In my kids karate classes we play dodge ball. I will occasionally tell a kid he’s out on a close call when i’m sure he wasnt just to see how he handles It. Afterward i tell them life will be full of such times and they have to learn to keep moving forward despite it.

And anyway usually when they stand there arguing they’ll get blasted in face. Another life lesson.
 
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heelmanwilm said:
In my kids karate classes we play dodge ball. I will occasionally tell a kid he’s out on a close call when i’m sure he wasnt just to see how he handles It. Afterward i tell them life will be full of such times and they have to learn to keep moving forward despite it.

And anyway usually when they stand there arguing they’ll get blasted in face. Another life lesson.
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That last line made me laugh out loud, a deep belly laugh for several seconds. thanks.
 
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Heelicious said:
@gteeitup - looks like Kris Richard is staying at least for another year. And that Vegas is pretty bearish on Cowboys wins over/under (at 8 or 8.5) next year. If Garrett wins 8 or 9, he's gone for sure. It will be interesting.
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happy about richard staying, for sure.

interesting that garrett has yet to receive an extension...imo, it’s a good idea to leave that door open, let him coach that team under some pressure...we’ll see how motivated they are now to get this team to a conference title game.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Ya, this I'll never understand. You've broken away from the grasp of an organized religion, yet you still for whatever reason feel the need to go....?
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I’m talking about Christian nondenominational churches that play rock band like music and have dry ice smoke and whatnot when they’re worshipping. It’s always a bunch of millennial families and the kids always have that Sean McVay mohawkie like cut with product in it
 
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Terror Beard said:
I’m talking about Christian nondenominational churches that play rock band like music and have dry ice smoke and whatnot when they’re worshipping. It’s always a bunch of millennial families and the kids always have that Sean McVay mohawkie like cut with product in it
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Terror - do you mean like Elevation in the Charlotte area? I live in Minneapolis but have been to Elevation a few times, my sister volunteers there. Many there just seems a little too slick and pretentious - including Furtick. Seems to be glam / beautiful, cool people meets "religion". Always quite the production - and I think they tend to look down on more traditional churches and Christ followers.

You won't find a cross or reference to God in those churches to save your life, which I find odd.
 
Heelicious said:
Terror - do you mean like Elevation in the Charlotte area? I live in Minneapolis but have been to Elevation a few times, my sister volunteers there. Many there just seems a little too slick and pretentious - including Furtick. Seems to be glam / beautiful, cool people meets "religion". Always quite the production - and I think they tend to look down on more traditional churches and Christ followers.

You won't find a cross or reference to God in those churches to save your life, which I find odd.
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I'm not familiar with those places.
 
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