I don’t understand your response. Do you really think women are using abortion as a form of birth control? That just makes no sense at all. Think about it, or talk to a woman who has had one.
OOTB's Political Thread . ..
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They both result in the same thing: no unwanted children running around. If preventing unwanted pregnancy is the goal - it shouldn't matter whether your seed was chemically blocked from fertilizing an egg, chemically destroyed after fertilizing an egg, or ended up deposited in that crusty tube sock tucked under your mattress to begin with.
So this seems to be the crux of the issue here. You want to punish people for "casual and probably reckless behavior". Burden them with the task of raising an unwanted child, as penance for not being careful (or lucky) enough to avoid the pregnancy in the first place.
At least just say that you're looking to legislate morality, and we can drop the whole charade around caring about all of these fetuses.
@dadika13 laid out a plan that would at least hypothetically appease the "well if she were on birth control... she wouldn't be in this situation!!!1!1!1!" crowd, by saying that if it was being used as a form of birth control, that they wouldn't be eligible.
I don't want to speak for him here, but I assume there are some women that are using it as a form of birth control. Not a high percentage, but I'm sure there are some. Certainly wouldn't be my preferred method for the reasons you've laid out. But even if they were, I still wouldn't really care (why would I care whether they took a BC pill, used a condom, or took an abortion cocktail?) - it's best for society for that baby to not be born, regardless of how it needs to be prevented.
Theoretically it wouldn't be that hard to use it is a form of birth control. It seems the majority of "abortions" aren't procedures, they're just 2 pills. First pill causes hormones to halt growth, second causes the contractions or whatever to empty the uterus. A visit to the doc or clinic....
You hint that health concern is an issue at some level, but then your comment seems to minimize health of people that are actually living and breathing (baby or mom). That's a little confusing.
So you don't want the mom to die due to child-birth, instead abort, but you don't care if she's a horrible candidate for mom-hood, like she's a crack head raising a crack-baby, which is clearly a health problem for everyone (not just the baby and mom).
Most of that makes sense and I think what you're saying is where the majority of Americans land (not sure I love that last point about being on prescription BC and it failing but whatever). But both the far right and far left won't abide that. I will add that the GOP has attempted to make birth control easier to get and OTC and democrats have stonewalled them on Planned Parenthood's behalf. However, I'm sure one the liberals here can tell me of something the right has not given in on regarding this issue for whatever lobby they're beholding to.
I bet I know exponentially more women who have had one than you do. I've spoken to them numerous times about their experience and still do to this day. You?
I don't think very many women sit around and think, "I'm gonna have all the unprotected sex I want and if I get pregnant, I'll just go have an abortion." But I do believe that there are many women that don't think of what's best in the moment, and end up making a bad decision with the thought, "well, it would suck but I could always have an abortion if I were to get pregnant." While the first is the epitome of poor decision making and irresponsibility, the second isn't a whole lot better. It's still irresponsible and looking for a last minute fix to a problem that had you exhibited better self control or better planning, you wouldn't be in this spot. And what's worse is that repeatedly coming to save such irresponsible and thoughtless behavior (by way of abortion), only enables and encourages more irresponsible behavior not only in the case of bailing them out of a a pregnancy situation but in other avenues of life.
But again, I remain begrudgingly in favor of allowing them to happen up to 15 or so weeks and in outlier cases such as rape/incest/etc.
And I have no doubt that you were just talking out of your ass and now you realize you should have just STFU.
I'll have others know that several of the women I know deeply regret their choice. I know that's not unique to the ones I know but to hear them talk about it makes it more compelling. Several were in high school even but still maintain they wished they had not aborted. Take that for what it's worth.
And I look forward to reading all about the vast research @prlyles has done with all the women he knows that have had one. Because otherwise, what would he have to offer?
If you are asking me if I’ve talked to all the women in your trailer park, no I have not.
The mayor of Chicago?
"...while they take away our rights....our right to have children!"
"...while they take away our rights....our right to have children!"
Yes - agree here completely.
My thing with you @prlyles is that my ideal solution basically allows abortion in almost every case but that wasn't good enough for you? It's all or you're pissed? What adult thinks that way?
Most women state that the reason they have abortions is because they aren't financially ready or they simply don't want a kid right now...which are exactly the people who should be on free birth control. So in my solution - these women would be covered. If they aren't and get pregnant, well, not much I can do for stupidity.
lol, what is wrong with you? Frankly you are becoming ridiculous. Actually I should say becoming even more more ridiculous. How am I punishing anyone with a pregnancy I had nothing to do with creating? How am I punishing anyone with raising a child that I had no part in creating? More to the point you keep avoiding, why do you want to punish a living human for being created when he/she had no say in the matter?
I love how you keep dancing around the fact that abortion is the destroying of a human life. Destroying human life apparently means little to you but it does to me. I want no part of supporting a practice that destroys human life when birth control and a smidge of responsibility couild prevent it from beginning to start with. And for those who just plain don't want to be pregnant or who exhibit an inability to avoid unwanted pregnancy, sterilization is an acceptable option IMO.
Legislate morality? I have said nothing about legislating anything in this discussion. The States can legislate whatever they deem proper. I just want screeching morons to STFU just because they think they can no longer freely kill their babies instead of preventing them with birth control.
I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who says he doesn't see the difference between preventing something from happening to begin with and destroying something once it happens. That's simply bullshit.
does it make too much sense? I don't know, but show me where I have said anything different than you just did. Show me where I said anything about what to legislate regarding abortion. I don't want to encourage using abortion as birth control, and that's what I've said over and over and that's ALL I've said. And if you honestly believe that abortions aren't largely performed to end preventable pregnancies, you're just another naive dipshit living in la-la-land.
And how completely stupid are you to characterize anything I said as me claiming that abortion is a gift. Show me the words, moron. I said a woman was rewarded with being allowed to obtain an abortion, rewarded for irresponsible behavior in becoming pregnant when it could be prevented AND IN COMPARISON TO RAISING AN UNWANTED CHILD. I said abortion was the easy way out of that irresponsibility IN COMPARISON TO RAISING AN UNWANTED CHILD, and in that sense the irresponsibility was rewarded by NOT HAVING TO RAISE AN UNWANTED CHILD..
But go ahead and listen to the words that someone else has twisted in search of a semblance of an argument, that makes you quite the wise man doesn't it? LOL, goddam goatfvcker.
Gift and reward are the same thing numnuts.
And the way you describe women and abortion is almost as if you’ve never spoken to a woman in your life.
Well shit, now it makes sense.
That’s fair. And yep, Planned Parenthood’s first, second, and third concern is keeping their funding. Not helping women.
I think it’s much better to fight over the BC thing and let states debate that then just blanket “no abortion” that some states are doing.
I’d like to think the far left would be much less combative if that were the case but then I think of Blazers and Prlyles and say what’s the point, they’ll be big lesbian mad no matter what.
Bacteria is a sign of life on Earth, too. Antibiotics should be banned because they can kill/abort the life of bacteria. And, Martians have been getting abortions for a long time.
A malignant tumor is "a sign of life." An infestation of mice, or other vermin, is a sign of life. Pretty much everything that exists in this plane of reality is a sign of life.
Going with that premise, I get to cite another piece of satirical wisdom from on of my heroes:
Just because something is alive doesn't necessarily mean that human beings are remotely okay with that. If everything that has a heartbeat has to be left alone, or maybe even nurtured, then we have to reevaluate our entire understanding of the universe! I'm game if you are.
We can start by ending abortions, and ending "death row." If it's illegal to kill something that doesn't have a birth certificate... yet. Then we damn sure cannot murder something that has had one for at least 18 years, and will get a tombstone, and a death certificate that reads- "Execution"- next to "Cause of Death." It's absolutely a life, there's no doubt about that. It's a life with 37.2 trillion tiny "lives" inside of it.
If a heartbeat is where we’re going to draw the line, then taking a brain dead patient off of life support would be murder. Obviously it takes more than a heartbeat to constitute personhood.
There’s no point trying to have a philosophical discussion though because the response will always be “no this is different, it’s a baby!”
It’s hard to know where to draw the line, especially considering the variability in fetal development timelines. It’s not a huge amount of variation but it’s enough to blur some already blurry lines.
For me, it’s just about impossible to make the argument for personhood without consciousness being on the table.
There’s no point trying to have a philosophical discussion though because the response will always be “no this is different, it’s a baby!”
It’s hard to know where to draw the line, especially considering the variability in fetal development timelines. It’s not a huge amount of variation but it’s enough to blur some already blurry lines.
For me, it’s just about impossible to make the argument for personhood without consciousness being on the table.
You misunderstood my post. In a nutshell, I am simply saying that very few women would use abortion as a form of birth control. I don’t even remember what your other points were. I went back and read your post and I agree with all. I was not arguing about any of your points, just making a general statement about abortion and birth control.
OK, I went back and read my replies and I can see where you thought I was arguing one of your points. I should have made it plainer that I was making a general statement about birth control. Sorry.
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I will say that the "they're taking away our basic human rights!" and "guns have more rights than women!" people need to get kicked in the head.
Absolutely no one is going to be having sex with her anyway.The mayor of Chicago?
"...while they take away our rights....our right to have children!"
no they aren't moron, and especially not in the way you suggested and I intended, as I pointed out. But be happy in your cluelessness.
well gee George, maybe it's because we kill and eat chicken but only abort our babies. Maybe your twisted sense of propriety would have us eating our babies after we abort them. Make that part of the joke, George, because the truly stupid who laugh at this misplaced bit of humor don't have the ability to think their way out of a wet paper bag.Bacteria is a sign of life on Earth, too. Antibiotics should be banned because they can kill/abort the life of bacteria. And, Martians have been getting abortions for a long time.
A malignant tumor is "a sign of life." An infestation of mice, or other vermin, is a sign of life. Pretty much everything that exists in this plane of reality is a sign of life.
Going with that premise, I get to cite another piece of satirical wisdom from on of my heroes:
Or maybe we can be more direct. The chicken eggs that we make omelettes from are unfertilized. The fetuses that we are referring are definitely fertilized and growing humans. MMMMM, aborted baby omelettes. Sounds delish, George. Help yourself.
You are one with the chicken.
you are so incredibly stupid. You no doubt have in mind a woman routinely getting pregnant and then hopping on down to the abortion store to get that convenient abortion, sort of like routinely taking a pill. Whereas what is meant by using abortion as birth control is just being too casual about using birth control and then relying on the availability of abortion just in case that unwanted pregnancy does occur. There are lots of women who get abortions. Some get multiple abortions. But I agree there probably aren't any who say, 'you know, instead of taking a pill every day I'll just get an abortion every now and then'.
But yes, tardo, if a woman gets even one abortion because she was too lax in using prevention of some kind, that is using abortion as birth control. So let me point out, tardo, that most abortions are performed simply because the pregnancy is unwanted, and most aren't sought because of failed birth control; they are sought due to failure to USE birth control. You think, or should I say don't think, however you care to.
You: Women have the freedom and rights to have an abortion as long as they take a monthly pill.
Okay "small gov", and sorry people tried to infringe on your freedom to not mouth-breath all over the place early in the pandemic, to prevent deaths of elderly.
equating a growing baby human to a cancerous tumor or an infestation of vermin tells about all we need to know about your POV. Some of us place human life, particularly innocent and defenseless human life, in a more elevated' status.
That's the point I was trying to make in a previous post. How a fetus is perceived seems to depend on the woman's outlook on any particular day. One day it's a precious baby to be protected and nurtured, the next day it's so much 'vermin' to be gotten rid of. That's what I can't abide, human life at the whim of a woman's selfish, changing desires. Women who only see a growing unborn baby in terms of her own needs are women I wish were not part of the society I'm part of.
And to further the point, my contention...my only contention...is that if human life was more valued, more would be done by women to avoid becoming pregnant to begin with. I want to see how many disagree with avoiding a problem rather than fixing a problem that could be avoided.
Um what? I was actually very pro-mask in early pandemic, especially pre-vaccine.
Ohhh, you assume since I don’t completely and fully believe in your far left lunacy that I must be some grumpy old conservative who is against everything that isn’t that? I’m also anti-gun, blowing your mind yet?
How about being a human being and feeling differently on topics and not being a slave to a political agenda?
You are so dumb.
Lemme try again:
You: Women have the freedom and rights to have an abortion as long as they take a monthly pill.
F that. Americans shouldn't have to take pills for freedom over motherhood, that should make everyone be big lesbian mad.
That is classic poopslinger, straight out of his handbook How NOT To Pick Up Women. Hey, poops, now that you're single again, try asking the ladies about their favorite pastime or food and you might get lucky.
you're much funnier when you're not trying to be.
That is classic poopslinger, straight out of his handbook How NOT To Pick Up Women. Hey, poops, now that you're single again, try asking the ladies about their favorite pastime or food and you might get lucky.
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