Can't remember if this one has been posted before, but it's worth seeing again either way.
"Oh, no."
"Oh, no."
OOTB's Political Thread . ..
- Thread starter BillyL
- Start date
I am OK with DCA since it is convenient when I go to DC for work.
Reality is the helos need go stay the hell out of commercial airliner traffic and go fly some other pattern around DC. This BS should have never happened if not for the helo violating the 200 feet AGL rule.
Take over Gaza Not sure what I think about the feasibility of taking over Gaza. The arabs don't want the Palestinian troublemakers, maybe dump them in Mexico. 
50% tariffs unless you take these terrorists....
50% tariffs unless you take these terrorists....
better build that wall, and maybe even a moat filled with alligators....Take over Gaza Not sure what I think about the feasibility of taking over Gaza. The arabs don't want the Palestinian troublemakers, maybe dump them in Mexico.
what I read was that in spite of an already overly congested airspace around DC, Congressmen from all over contrived to have direct flights to their home areas added. It sickens me to see our representatives get elected to serve us but instead help themselves, particularly when that takes precedence over public safety.
I've got a buddy who is a couple years retired ATC that worked in that exact tower. He had some observations of things he told me the day or two after the incident as well as some things he said he'd keep to himself until we were on a golf course somewhere this summer. Here's a summary. Helicopters, particularly military, operate over water and highways for noise abatement reasons. Anyone who's had one come over their house with that eardrum splitting, chest pounding whomp, whomp understands why. This flight was nothing unusual. He said it probably happens 25 to 30 times everyday there on that exact route and that close to 250 are in operation there daily between military, law enforcement, medivac, and national security.
The military is always training there as it's part of the continuation of government plan. That's how they will evac cabinet members, senators, speaker of the house, etc. They will fly them out prearranged routes to prearranged locations and it gets practiced constantly with there being minimal requirements of hours each month. The PAT helicopter involved stands for priority air transport and it's used to fly military brass around (very fortunate, apparently, that there wasn't a couple generals on board at the time). From what he had seen and heard of the communications, he said they had normal operations and it wasn't a busy environment or anything unusual at the time. Basically, normal for that time of night. Listening to the audio of the ATC, they were competent. While it will take time to fully analyze, his initial impression was that this will fall squarely on the helo pilot although there will be a bunch of finger pointing due to the benefit of hindsight and blame shifting. Bottom line is that they were too high at that exact moment and there has even been speculation that they got pushed up due to unusual wind gusts that evening. Time will tell. But, very sad regardless of the determinations.
But did he shave his blue hair off and move to Canada?
Not sure but I am sure he's virtue-signaling and diagnosing mental states somewhere.
Funny you say that because he's posted a good bit in the various threads about whether HD should be fired or given another year. In those posts, that aspect has been leaking out and there have been a couple of times where I was very tempted to out his act of playing Switzerland while actually holding another view. I have held my tongue not wanting to turn those threads into the same shenanigans we get into here, but it has been obvious to many with some of the responses he has gotten.
His disappearance here has been very revealing whether he intended it to be or not. Actions do speak louder than words sometimes. And, of all those people who should be unaffected and the least impacted by an election, you'd think it would be those that are "neutral". Their commentary should persist regardless of office holder. But, the crickets say otherwise about his actual stances.
I am liking her more and more. No binder needed.
Sharks. It's sharks, dammit. Bull sharks. With lasers.
great info, but I hope you don't think I was trying to imply that the Reps referred to in any way caused the incident to occur. Maybe I should have realized it might be taken that way. It was just an aside related to the subject at hand, and an opportunity to gripe about one of my bigger pet peeves, which is that of elected officials using their positions to feather their own beds..
Either way, I wish it was you reporting this story. In one paragraph you've told me more than the mainstream media has in a week of reporting. I will say though that from what I gather, this risky situation apparently has generally been considered a safety hazard for a good while.
I thought about bull sharks and I know they can deal with fresh water but gators seem more environmentally appropriate....so maybe some of each. But no lasers, that wouldn't be very sporting.
regarding @strummingram...
I have a hard time dealing with this as well. It's beyond arrogant to demand that we deal with two faces and insulting to think no one will notice there's more than one.
IMO, the fault definitely lies with the helo. Has it ever been ascertained if the helo occupants were wearing NODs? If so they had very limited depth perception, and bright light was blinding. If the pilot turned and saw the approaching light of the jet she may have lifted the helo out of reflex.
I don't know the answer to that. As to the lift/reflex issue, here's a video that shows the helicopter coming across and seemingly maintaining a pretty steady altitude until impact. This final report will be very interesting.
there has been a well-repeated report that the tower had the chopper at 200 feet. Of course you can't tell from the video what altitude was in fact in play., and the diff between 200' and 300' in a nighttime video over reflective water is not going to be apparent to the casual viewer. What I haven't seen suggested is that the plane may have dipped down too low in its approach, and the hearsay that it tried to elevate just before impact makes me wonder. Either way, what is fundamentally at fault is having helicopters crossing paths with approaching traffic, especially at night. Seems to me like an accident waiting to happen.
ETA...also, the tower asking if one had another in sight under those conditions isn't much to rely on. It can be iffy even in broad daylight as attested to by the terrible accident out west years ago where a small single engine plane collided with a filly loaded jetliner, killing all. That pilot said he had the crossing traffic in soght when clearly he did not and only thought he did.
I am a little puzzled by the concept of asking for and being granted 'visual separation'. I mean, obviously the term itself is self-explanatory, but what does it mean to 'request it' and then having it granted.? Who begins doing what that isn't already being done?
ETA...also, the tower asking if one had another in sight under those conditions isn't much to rely on. It can be iffy even in broad daylight as attested to by the terrible accident out west years ago where a small single engine plane collided with a filly loaded jetliner, killing all. That pilot said he had the crossing traffic in soght when clearly he did not and only thought he did.
I am a little puzzled by the concept of asking for and being granted 'visual separation'. I mean, obviously the term itself is self-explanatory, but what does it mean to 'request it' and then having it granted.? Who begins doing what that isn't already being done?
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I had heard the same thing about the tower reporting the 200 feet for the helo. However, I also heard that the plane's blackbox put it at (I wanna say they said) 340 and there was also an indication that they had attempted to pull up at the last moment indicating they may have seen the helo and tried to avoid it. This stuff takes time because there is a ton of data to assemble, but man it would be nice to know sooner than later. Either way, I don't want to be on a commercial flight that is clearing any other by a mere 140 feet.
" Either way, I don't want to be on a commercial flight that is clearing any other by a mere 140 feet. "
hear you loud and clear on that one.
Unless things have changed since I started flying lessons years ago, an accurate altimeter reading depends on inputs from the pilot regarding atmospheric pressure. I know these things get complicated from watching that TV show 'Air Disasters', where the NTSB might take years to finally draw some conclusion. I'm not sure I have enough time for this to becomes an episode of 'Air Disasters'.
I apologize for the slight jest.
Speaking of censorship, how about that bastion of information and neutrality known as Wikipedia?
https://mrcfreespeechamerica.org/bl...ve-wikipedia-effectively-blacklists-all-right
The tower 200 feet reading was slow due to system update after a few seconds which really makes this BS if a tower is relying on old info to make decisions.
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