Prayers for All Affected @ Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School

[TarHeelMark]

And why would a teacher want to put themselves in the position of this deputy in Florida that was reluctant (scared) to do what he was trained to do?

So if an armed teacher doesn’t react quickly enough or isn’t brave enough when needed to be, will they be considered liable for additional kids getting gunned down? Probably would be. And who the hell would want to take on that responsibility?

Arming teachers is not the answer.

 

[uncboy10]

Arming teachers is moronic. If a student attacks a teacher they would potentially have to use deadly force to defend themselves, because of the fact that the student could take the gun if they overpower the teacher.

 

[strummingram]

 

[BillyL]

LOL . .

Look for SHS to come out and say that 45 was just being sarcastic . .

#emptysuit

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

Oh, good, problem solved.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/grade...o-post-in-god-we-trust-in-all-public-schools/

 

[nctransplant]

I see a lot of poasts here that talk about how stupid some idea is or how someone is a moron for thinking a certain way, but I haven't seen an idea yet that will stop this crap. In fact I haven't seen an idea other than "do something". Outlaw all the guns you want to, magazine size too. Raise the age limit. None of this will work, criminals don't obey laws. It's not that hard to understand. The local, state and federal government could have prevented Florida and a few others. They had tips on these people. Soft targets like schools are just that, easy soft targets.

 

[Grayhead]

^^^^^^ True.
Not much to do except act on signs from the individuals themselves. We live in trying times no doubt

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

That's because there isn't any one simple idea or answer. It will take a comprehensive effort that encompasses all of it to make a difference. Yes, let's improve security at schools and other soft targets (not by arming teachers, please, for God's sake). Yes, let's make a legitimate effort to improve mental health services. Let's make it a little more difficult to get your hands on guns, especially high-capacity magazines and the specific weapons preferred by almost every recent mass shooter. Let's look at the age limits and the loopholes. Let's look at improving counseling services in schools - starting with counselors that have time to talk to students and not just administer assessments. And yes, certainly we should - and will - be looking hard at the collaboration/communication failures that led to this particular instance to see what should be done differently by law enforcement agencies in the future. There are plenty more things that need to be looked at but that's just off the top of my head.

All of it should be on the table.

But rational conversations about how we can come together on this to actually make a difference are not what we get. We get various groups and politicians for whom each of the above is a non-starter for various reasons, most of them having to do with the almighty dollar. And they yell and demonize each other and lash out and dig in even harder. And so nothing happens and another school's gonna get shot up in T-minus ??? and counting. And I can g*******d guaran****ingtee you that if it happens at my child's school I'm gonna be right up there giving some senator the business just like these kids from Florida and Fox News can come at me bro.

We are America and we deserve better than this.

 

[nctransplant]

That's because there isn't any one simple idea or answer. It will take a comprehensive effort that encompasses all of it to make a difference. Yes, let's improve security at schools and other soft targets (not by arming teachers, please, for God's sake). Yes, let's make a legitimate effort to improve mental health services. Let's make it a little more difficult to get your hands on guns, especially high-capacity magazines and the weapons preferred by almost every recent mass shooter. Let's look at the age limits and the loopholes. Let's look at improving counseling services in schools - starting with counselors that have time to talk to students and not just administer assessments. And yes, certainly we should - and will - be looking hard at the collaboration/communication failures that led to this particular instance to see what should be done differently by law enforcement agencies in the future. There are plenty more things that need to be looked at but that's just off the top of my head.

All of it should be on the table.

But rational conversations about how we can come together on this to actually make a difference are not what we get. We get various groups and politicians for whom each of the above is a non-starter for various reasons, most of them having to do with the almighty dollar. And they yell and demonize each other and lash out and dig in even harder. And so nothing happens and another school's gonna get shot up in T-minus ??? and counting. And I can g*******d guaran****ingtee you that if it happens at my child's school I'm gonna be right up there giving some senator the business just like these kids from Florida and Fox News can come at me bro.

We are America and we deserve better than this.

I'd like it to be left up to the local school boards how to best secure their schools, because each school is different. This is not a one size fits all solution. I have no problems limiting magazine capacity, eliminating bump-stocks, better background checks, and raising the age to 21 and by the way I Am a NRA member.
Fox news, senators, CNN, MSNBC didn't drop the ball on this one. The local cops went to this kids house 39 times, and the FBI had 2 warnings, and the school permitted him back on campus only without a backpack(What kind of bullshit is this?). They all played a part in not preventing this. And the way the state of the American family is today expect many more incidents like this one.

And Jules you say in one sentence don't arm teachers and then later "all should be on the table", you're either in or you are out.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Oh, good, problem solved.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/grade...o-post-in-god-we-trust-in-all-public-schools/

Odd that it was the left that pushed this bill, but hey, it's Florida and I guess everything is backwards there.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

Focusing on the law enforcement failure of this instance seems like kind of a cop-out since as far as I'm aware that has not been the case in most of the many other recent school shootings and other attacks. As I already said, we should certainly be looking at what went wrong there and what should have been done differently but that alone is not a valid approach to actually addressing the problem.

 

[Grayhead]

That's because there isn't any one simple idea or answer. It will take a comprehensive effort that encompasses all of it to make a difference. Yes, let's improve security at schools and other soft targets (not by arming teachers, please, for God's sake). Yes, let's make a legitimate effort to improve mental health services. Let's make it a little more difficult to get your hands on guns, especially high-capacity magazines and the specific weapons preferred by almost every recent mass shooter. Let's look at the age limits and the loopholes. Let's look at improving counseling services in schools - starting with counselors that have time to talk to students and not just administer assessments. And yes, certainly we should - and will - be looking hard at the collaboration/communication failures that led to this particular instance to see what should be done differently by law enforcement agencies in the future. There are plenty more things that need to be looked at but that's just off the top of my head.

All of it should be on the table.

But rational conversations about how we can come together on this to actually make a difference are not what we get. We get various groups and politicians for whom each of the above is a non-starter for various reasons, most of them having to do with the almighty dollar. And they yell and demonize each other and lash out and dig in even harder. And so nothing happens and another school's gonna get shot up in T-minus ??? and counting. And I can g*******d guaran****ingtee you that if it happens at my child's school I'm gonna be right up there giving some senator the business just like these kids from Florida and Fox News can come at me bro.

We are America and we deserve better than this.

I agree that one side demands x to be done and the other fortifies x is wrong. I will forever stand on guns not being the issue. I am also fine with changing restrictions on purchases and such. Even the hardware. The main issue is what to do with what's in public already. If the come to take any part of my collection, then that will be the day I become a criminal.

Coming to the table is a wonderful idea. But it has to include the families as well. I attribute blame on them for not monitoring their kids. But then again, it's not always kids doing this. Killers will always kill. We can't ban every harmful item in the world. The best thing we can do is monitor our kids social media, try to pick schools that are less prone to these events. Hire SRO officers with the nuts to fight people killing kids.

I wonder how many times these things happen, and someone noticed a change in their behavior leading up to the event. Local communities need to be proactive in this.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

I have no problems limiting magazine capacity, eliminating bump-stocks, better background checks, and raising the age to 21 and by the way I Am a NRA member.

You may want to drop them a note then because they are certainly using your money and a whole lot more to line politicians' pockets to ensure that none of that gets touched.

And Jules you say in one sentence don't arm teachers and then later "all should be on the table", you're either in or you are out.

Improving school security should be on the table. Arming teachers is not the way to do it. That's a recipe for disaster and will make the situation worse not better. See, it was on the table, we discussed it, now let's move on to better ideas.

 

[Grayhead]

Odd that it was the left that pushed this bill, but hey, it's Florida and I guess everything is backwards there.

She cited video games. Again, parents can monitor these things

 

[nctransplant]

You may want to drop them a note then because they are certainly using your money and a whole lot more to line politicians' pockets to ensure that none of that gets touched.


Improving school security should be on the table. Arming teachers is not the way to do it. That's a recipe for disaster and will make the situation worse not better. See, it was on the table, we discussed it, now let's move on to better ideas.

So you don't agree with my idea of arming well trained teachers so you dismiss it, SMH. Have you taught at the high school level or any grade school level?

The local boards should have the say in securing their schools not the federal government. You don't have a clue about schools in Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota etc. Every location in America is different and has different needs.

 

[Littlejon]

You may want to drop them a note then because they are certainly using your money and a whole lot more to line politicians' pockets to ensure that none of that gets touched

I am afraid you are mistaken there. The NRA has called for better background checks for over 20 years. The NRA was the one who got the NICS system in place. The “assault weapons” bill enacted in Clinton’s term called for waiting periods but nothing on background checks. It was the NRA who pushed for and got it and they have been trying to get better checks in place ever since, including mental health screening. Politicians fight it, not the NRA. Instead of dismissing everything the NRA does because the media spreads falsehoods about them, why not give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they, like everyone else, wants these tragedies to stop, too?

Also, arming teachers seems to be the one topic dividing everyone more than any other. Here’s the thing though, no one is saying it should be mandatory or that anyone who doesn’t want to take the training and get a permit has to. It is voluntary for those who want to. And whose to say they won’t be better than the SRO who failed to act?

My wife is a teacher. One of the best principals she ever worked for was retired from the Marines and served with distinction for almost 20 years, including in combat. There is no doubt in my mind that he would’ve grabbed any gun available and charged right at this guy without hesitation. He isn’t the only one. When I was in HS we had several vets teaching who I know wouldn’t hesitate to take on someone trying to shoot people. That doesn’t even count the women who are signing up for concealed classes in droves whose “mama bear” instincts I dare say would be better than a lot of SRO’s.

I appreciate that many people don’t like guns and feel there mere presence in a school would cause problems. That isn’t saying there won’t be instances where people mishandle them or otherwise do something stupid. But I don’t think we can summarily dismiss the benefits and not even consider that as an option.

Oh, and my wife will be the first to tell you she DOES NOT want to be armed at school. I am fine with that. I have seen her shoot!

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

So you don't agree with my idea of arming well trained teachers so you dismiss it, SMH. Have you taught at the high school level or any grade school level?

The local boards should have the say in securing their schools not the federal government. You don't have a clue about schools in Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota etc. Every location in America is different and has different needs.

Teachers as it is have too much to deal with and too little funding for teaching. It's hard enough to train law-enforcement personnel to deal with these kinds of situations; I don't believe any teacher has the time for enough training to be considered "well-trained" to deal with an active shooter in a school. Teachers can't get funding for classroom supplies but they're somehow going to magically have the time and funding to get sufficient training in an area that's one of the hardest situations to deal with for professional law enforcement?

I think it's far more likely that it will cause more problems than good, when a gun ends up in the wrong hands, or a teacher slips up and doesn't quite follow protocol when moving it from one place to another, or ends up in an impossible situation trying to decide who or when to shoot in a crisis. That's my opinion and I believe I have a right to it as much as anybody else. Every teacher that I know or have heard from in this debate has echoed that sentiment. I am not a teacher and never have been but I know teachers in multiple states including relatively young, new teachers as well as long-time educators and students currently studying to be future teachers. I haven't heard from even one that has raised his/her hand and said, yeah, I want to carry my gun to class and have it become my responsibility to deal with an active shooter, and you know what, it'd be great to know that Pat across the hall has one, too, and that guy Tim upstairs, we don't get along at all but I'm sure glad he's packing.

Having more, and better trained, and better funded security officers - actual law enforcement personnel - at schools seems like a far better and more cost-effective strategy than any plan that involves having teachers - whose primary job is to teach - carry weapons and have to add training for their usage to their already overwhelming workload. My opinion - yours may vary, and you're welcome to it.

As for having specific policies determined more at the local level, and different schools having different needs, that's reasonable and I don't disagree. I'm not even really sure why you're telling me I don't have a clue about schools anywhere else when I haven't claimed to.

Have a wonderful afternoon.

 

[prlyles]

I am afraid you are mistaken there. The NRA has called for better background checks for over 20 years. The NRA was the one who got the NICS system in place.

So, you're saying the NRA wanted background checks but the people they have paid off for years wouldn't pass it?

 

[nctransplant]

I'm not even really sure why you're telling me I don't have a clue about schools anywhere else when I haven't claimed to.

Have a wonderful afternoon.[/QUOTE]

My point was you were making a blanket statement about teachers packing. In NC I'm not so sure that teachers carrying is a good idea. In rural areas like where I live it's not a bad idea. Don't let teachers fool you about pay and funding. Funding would be much better in many states if they would clean house in the county offices and send that money to the schools. And as far as time and pay, we work part-time anyway, nine months a year and every holiday off.

 

[Littlejon]

The NRA doesn’t “pay off” anyone any more or less than any other lobby in DC, liberal or conservative. They support politicians and candidates whose views align with the NRA members and lobby, just like hundreds of other groups, on behalf or against legislation. Ultimately they have no control over what does and does not get passed.

To answer your question, though, since no strengthening of background checks has taken place then, technically, yes, their efforts have thus far not been successful.

They got the system started but cannot force states, the military or anyone else who is supposed to provide information on people who shouldn’t own guns to report it. In a video the NRA produced a couple of years ago, they talked about this and at that time there were 38 states that either hadn’t reported anything or under reported what they were supposed to. How the NRA can be blamed for people getting by the current system is beyond me since the government has to compel states and other agencies to provide the information used to determine if someone can buy a gun.

 

[nctransplant]

The NRA doesn’t “pay off” anyone. They support politicians and candidates whose views align with the NRA members and lobby, just like hundreds of other groups, on behalf or against legislation. Ultimately they have no control over what does and does not get passed.

To answer your question, though, since no strengthening of background checks has taken place then, technically, yes, their efforts have thus far not been successful.

They got the system started but cannot force states, the military or anyone else who is supposed to provide information on people who shouldn’t own guns to report it. In a video the NRA produced a couple of years ago, hey talked about this and at that time there were 38 states that either hadn’t reported anything or under reported what they were supposed to. How the NRA can be blamed for people getting by the current system is beyond me since the government has to compel states and other agencies to provide the informarion

People see the NRA as the boogie man. They fail to see all the training programs and good they do.

 

[Littlejon]

And let’s not forget an NRA instructor is the one who took down the guy who shot up a church not long ago (in Kentucky, IIRC) and did it with an AR-15.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

their already overwhelming workload.

Ok, let's not get carried away here.

Don't let teachers fool you about pay and funding. Funding would be much better in many states if they would clean house in the county offices and send that money to the schools. And as far as time and pay, we work part-time anyway, nine months a year and every holiday off.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[gteeitup]

imo, it’s a horrible idea to arm teachers...and it’s even worse when politicians, some sheriffs, and the potus have kept that idea as part of this story.

 

[nctransplant]

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

imo, it’s a horrible idea to arm teachers

Arming teachers that don't want to be armed would be a disaster. I'm not even sure if allowing already licensed teachers to carry at school would produce a net benefit in and of itself. However, I do think that the possibility of some teachers in a school being armed (whether or not they actually were) would be somewhat of a deterrent for a potential shooter. Many of them target schools because they know there will be no resistance. There are tons of people that hate cops, but you never hear of anyone trying to shoot up a police department because they know they'll get their face blown off before they do any sort of actual damage.

 

[nctransplant]

Arming teachers that don't want to be armed would be a disaster. I'm not even sure if allowing already licensed teachers to carry at school would produce a net benefit in and of itself. However, I do think that the possibility of some teachers in a school being armed (whether or not they actually were) would be somewhat of a deterrent for a potential shooter. Many of them target schools because they know there will be no resistance. There are tons of people that hate cops, but you never hear of anyone trying to shoot up a police department because they know they'll get their face blown off before they do any sort of actual damage.

Your opinions are worthless and have no merit.

 

[Grayhead]

If someone is willing to shoot a school up, they may not care if someone is shooting back. Most of the time they off themselves before capture. I leaning on dicks assessment, there is no answer. Its a created culture. Turn the culture around and maybe it chamges. In reality, we have gone to far

 

[tarheel0910]

Didn't realize there was already a school district that allowed teachers to carry. Not surprised it's in TX though.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index.html

 

[nctransplant]

If someone is willing to shoot a school up, they may not care if someone is shooting back. Most of the time they off themselves before capture. I leaning on dicks assessment, there is no answer. Its a created culture. Turn the culture around and maybe it chamges. In reality, we have gone to far

True but a few less might have to die.

 

[CanuckChuck]

Outlaw all the guns you want to, magazine size too. Raise the age limit. None of this will work, criminals don't obey laws. It's not that hard to understand.

It is hard for some, because all these ideas WOULD work. Most of these mass shooters obtain these weapons legally. If they did have to resort to illegal means to gather these weapons maybe we stop them earlier or they find another method (which we then have to deal with) or they give up.

Would it stop all of these events - no.
Would it help - yes.
Would it be better than nothing - depends on how much you love guns.

But you have to realize how stupid the "why have laws since criminals are going to criminal" argument is.

CC

 

[gteeitup]

Arming teachers that don't want to be armed would be a disaster. I'm not even sure if allowing already licensed teachers to carry at school would produce a net benefit in and of itself. However, I do think that the possibility of some teachers in a school being armed (whether or not they actually were) would be somewhat of a deterrent for a potential shooter. Many of them target schools because they know there will be no resistance. There are tons of people that hate cops, but you never hear of anyone trying to shoot up a police department because they know they'll get their face blown off before they do any sort of actual damage.

an armed officer didn’t go in...i have to go on the current data from the prior situations...that is the only way i can rationalize this.

i applaud gov scott of fla for at least making a statement and coming up with ideas...that is the kind of dialogue that has to happen, imo...i certainly don’t need to see or hear dana loesch speak on the matter.

 

[Littlejon]

With all due respect, not one gun owner I know has a “why have laws when criminals are going to be criminals” attitude. They know and respect the laws themselves and just want the 9,000+ current gun laws already on the books to be enforced. These laws just restrict law abiding citizens from buying guns so why would one more law be needed? We know that these murderers either passed all checks and were legally able to buy their guns or they broke the law to get them, so one more law will stop this? That is what frustrates gun owners so much about all of this: the current laws did nothing to stop them and yet, once again, we are told we need more laws. We gun owners are vilified by the press and anti-gun activists, told by non-gun owners we don’t “need” certain weapons (despite the fact most non-gun owners have absolutely no clue what they are taking about) and then called every name in the book when we point out the fallacies of the same arguments for more gun laws that haven’t worked in the past.

Not to mention the fact that AR’s have been sold to the general public since the early 1960’s, but only because some murderers chose to use them recently to kill school kids have people sought to ban them. Why? The weapons didn’t change, people did. Schools became gun free zones and kids have been told all guns were “bad” since they were born and to avoid them at all cost, so now we have a situation where they are sitting ducks for madmen like this clown to pick them off with no fear of anyone fighting back. And, yet again, people still blame the gun, the NRA and law abiding gun owners.

 

[gteeitup]

neighbor at it again...

 

[strummingram]

neighbor at it again...

View embedded media

 

[gunslingerdick]

I too am against arming teachers but not for the same reasons as most. Have y’all seen some of teachers in public school systems? I’d rather they arm some kids.

Hire vets as “school security”. Those positions wouldn’t even have to be high paying. Some vets just want a sense of purpose again.

 

[strummingram]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-ar-15-inventor-speaks-out-n593356

 

[gteeitup]

my oldest, a freshman, attends the same high school that dylan roof’s sister, morgan roof, was booted from yesterday for bringing a knife, pepper spray, and making threats.

as of today, three people have been arrested for bringing ammo or a gun since the walkout.

currently, sitting at his tennis match while multiple police patrols have been circling...credible threats today caused me to pick him up, along with two of his friends...this is really difficult for kids and parents to go through.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

That sucks man, I can't imagine.