Pretty good numbers for Recruits - Breeding Success

[RoseHeel]

There are levels to interest. Everything is not so black and white. Think of it like dating. There are some women that I might ask to get a coffee. Then there are some women I might ask to get a drink after work. Then there are some I might ask to go out to dinner and a music show. Then there are some that I would plan a weekend getaway with. Roy's having coffee with guys like Zion and Romeo unless they indicate in some way (not verbally necessarily) that they are worthy of a longer date.
If Roy gets the feeling that either guy could be more of a long term commitment type, he may plan a weekend getaway and put on his best face. Meanwhile, there are some guys that Roy skips the coffee and drinks stage with and goes straight to the dinner with because he knows he has a future with them. But with many of these guys, when he's having coffee with them, he sees things he doesn't particularly care for. Now, he may not remove them from speed dial because we all do the late night booty call thing, but he's not exactly sending them roses at work either.

This analogy is pretty funny, so I'll stick to the format:

I think Roy has gone beyond "having coffee" with Zion and Romeo. He's already started bringing them gifts (showing off his ring collection, back-to-back visits, etc.) Problem is that they're the ones who aren't showing the interest back. And Roy can't, or isn't taking the hint. We've seen it before with countless other top recruits and we likely will continue seeing it.

There's plenty of other fish (recruits) out in the sea. But Roy is so focused on the one or two he misses out on the ones right in front of him. Furthermore, if Roy took the time he's spent on Romeo Langford or Zion Williamson, we'd have had much less competition to deal with.

 

[gary-7]

Ingram and Knox prove my point. Roy wouldn't cave to the OAD mentality and made it known. In other words, he would have been happy to have both of those guys...as long as they never gave any inkling they were leaving after one year.

To your second point, if Roy cared don't you think he'd change his approach?

...and there were other factors going on with Knox that Roy will never stoop to compete with.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

...and there were other factors going on with Knox that Roy will never stoop to compete with.

If they only knew.

 

[gunslingerdick]

If they only knew.

I'm curious. Please tell me what you know.

 

[HeelzLover]

I'm curious. Please tell me what you know.

I wish you good luck

 

[dadika13]

...and there were other factors going on with Knox that Roy will never stoop to compete with.

Yeah, Cal's ridiculously good track record with guys who state their top concern when choosing a college is getting to the NBA.

Nothing more.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

I'm curious. Please tell me what you know.

Come on man.
It's pretty obvious that our coach wont stoop to the level that others guys will.

 

[gary-7]

Yeah, Cal's ridiculously good track record with guys who state their top concern when choosing a college is getting to the NBA.

Nothing more.

Ok Evan.

 

[soap - new and improved]

I don't really have a dog in this "Roy really wants them vs Roy wants them only on his terms vs Roy only recruits them for a "show" fight."

What I will say is I know only two people who are tied in at UNC at a deeper than average level. I rarely get anything from either of them, One I almost never converse with and the other not much more often than that.

One of them, unsolicited by me said we had stopped our active recruitment of Knox for quite some time before his announcement but implied that we carried thru the motions for appearances sake. He added that we were neither surprised nor disappointed that he went elsewhere.

There was a bit more that falls along the lines of what GSD was saying - that some recruitments are mostly to appease certain segments of the UNC fanbase.

Does he know for sure? I dunno. CPN - can't prove nuthin'. But he rarely ever mentions UNC stuff unless I ask, and in this case I did not bring up this subject.

 

[dadika13]

Ok Evan.

Was Knox listening to the same dark spirits in hooded capes that you claim "got to" Tony Bradley?

 

[gauchoheel]

I don't buy the "junk" excuse (aka the AFAM scandal). I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If OAD recruits aren't coming here because they're worried we could possibly get banned from the tournament, why are they committing to schools like Washington (Fultz), LSU (Simmons), W. Kentucky (Robinson), Bama (Sexton), Mizzou (Porter), Texas (Bamba), and on and on and on. These are schools where they're HIGHLY LIKELY to miss the tournament. So it makes no sense to claim that a possible tournament ban is what they're worried about, because they are committing to schools that most likely will miss the tournament.

And while some want to condemn them as "selfish" and seeking "immediate gratification", I think that's absurd too. If I'm a top prospect, I've got $10+ million on the line if I can have one good year in college. You think there's a chance I'm risking that because I might have a better shot at a championship? NO WAY. I'm going to the team that gives me the best shot at getting that money. You'd have to work 200 years to make $10 million if you made $50,000 per year. And many of these kids' parents make less than that. This is multi-generational, life-changing wealth; you don't risk that for good college memories. And I doubt there's a man on our championship team that wouldn't trade last season for $10 million.

And that is the essence of the problem (to the extent that there is one; we don't need OADs to win). Recruits don't trust Roy to get them to be a lotto pick, rightly or wrongly. That's the simplest explanation, and it's perfectly rational to choose another team if you start with the belief that Roy hurts your NBA dreams.

 

[HeelzLover]

If OAD recruits aren't coming here because they're worried we could possibly get banned from the tournament, why are they committing to schools like Washington (Fultz), LSU (Simmons), W. Kentucky (Robinson), Bama (Sexton), Mizzou (Porter), Texas (Bamba), and on and on and on.

Of all these teams u just named, which has a better Coach than we do? NONE!!!! If Fultz and Simmons can make it with the coaches they had, then they could have made it anywhere. If a guy is good enough he will be drafted no matter where they go.

 

[gary-7]

Was Knox listening to the same dark spirits in hooded capes that you claim "got to" Tony Bradley?

Y'know, dadika, I have to give you credit for chutzpah, brother ... I mean you of all people, who more than once has proclaimed that Coach X is dirty, or that Player Y was delivered to University of Z have the timerity to mock the same type of info when it comes from someone else. Wow. Props.

Seriously, and I'll leave it at this --- your silly disingenuous question notwithstanding --- everything I posted about TB was 100% true, and as for Knox, a group of us were talking off-board about what was going on with that several weeks before he committed, and suffice to say his final destination was (unfortunately) zero surprise to us (unlike the recruiting gurus out there).

 

[gary-7]

One of them, unsolicited by me said we had stopped our active recruitment of Knox for quite some time before his announcement but implied that we carried thru the motions for appearances sake. He added that we were neither surprised nor disappointed that he went elsewhere.

That may quite possibly be true...

 

[gauchoheel]

Of all these teams u just named, which has a better Coach than we do? NONE!!!! If Fultz and Simmons can make it with the coaches they had, then they could have made it anywhere. If a guy is good enough he will be drafted no matter where they go.

Edited my post slightly. The last paragraph now starts:

And that is the essence of the problem (to the extent that there is one; we don't need OADs to win).

And you're right that Roy is so good we don't need these guys. You're also right that they are committing to play with lesser coaches. I won't argue that and I don't think they're making the right choice. Just saying I think if you start with the belief that "Roy can't get you there", all of their reasoning makes sense.

 

[gauchoheel]

That may quite possibly be true...

Well I don't doubt it's true, but if it is it's likely because Roy knew we wouldn't land him. There is really zero chance Roy was not interested in having Knox (or Ingram, or Monk, etc) on the team. I think it's just that he's smart enough to read the tea leaves based on their behavior.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

The "Junk" and negative recruiting are two of the biggest reasons for missing on top level recruits. There are many factors involved like playing time, payoffs and academics as well, but to say that OAD aren't effected by the scandal is ridiculous!
Ingram and his pops both said it themselves, how can there be any better evidence?
This is a complex issue and the reputation as pro farm teams for some schools is also a factor but the idea that Roy or UNC hold players back is a bold faced lie!

 

[Archer2]

Those are all traits that are admirable, but don't resonate with a mindset that top recruits have right now. They want immediate gradification and to get to the league.

And if their only concern is getting to the league ASAP, I don't want them at UNC. It's not the school for them.

 

[NCAAUCoach]

There are two levels of recruits. We miss on clear one and dones because the perception is UNC and Roy aren't one and done friendly. Roy plays a lot of guys and is loyal to upperclassmen. I'm fine if we don't get those kids.

The next group is where it will really start to impact us. That group is the legit top 30 recruit. The one that isn't quite one and done, but can play. The same factors above are used against us (Roy loyal to upperclassmen), but this is where the uncertainty and scandal is used against us.

 

[dadika13]

Y'know, dadika, I have to give you credit for chutzpah, brother ... I mean you of all people, who more than once has proclaimed that Coach X is dirty, or that Player Y was delivered to University of Z have the timerity to mock the same type of info when it comes from someone else. Wow. Props.

Seriously, and I'll leave it at this --- your silly disingenuous question notwithstanding --- everything I posted about TB was 100% true, and as for Knox, a group of us were talking off-board about what was going on with that several weeks before he committed, and suffice to say his final destination was (unfortunately) zero surprise to us (unlike the recruiting gurus out there).

Please know that 99.9% of what I say is meant to just poke some fun and provide humor. Hell, we've been going at this for almost 10 years now, I think we reserve the right to bust each other's balls.

You're right, Cal is shady as hell. And I know for an absolute 100% fact two other coaches are as well.

This one just doesn't feel bought mostly for the fact that Cal didn't really need Knox. Plus, they were SO public about their recruitment. USA Today articles, taking every interview they could get, etc. Kids who are getting money under the table generally don't want so much light shed on their recruitment. It's probably the reason why you didn't hear shit about Wiggins and he just strung us along until like June.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

NCAAUCoach
Good points, and that OAD mentality has slowly dwindled down to the top 30 guys as well.

 

[Heeelz46]

I'm curious. Please tell me what you know.

Apparently you have to know the "off board" secret reacharound to access such sensitive info.

 

[gary-7]

Well I don't doubt it's true, but if it is it's likely because Roy knew we wouldn't land him. There is really zero chance Roy was not interested in having Knox (or Ingram, or Monk, etc) on the team. I think it's just that he's smart enough to read the tea leaves based on their behavior.

Thats's actually what I meant. While I appreciate the perspective offered ITT that maybe Roy only recruits certain kids for show, I personally believe it's more a matter of "we'll pursue this elite recruit IF...'"(as in IF the guys on the team are cool with him, and IF he eschews handlers and, um, IF his dad isn't entertaining bids...)

 

[gary-7]

The next group is where it will really start to impact us. That group is the legit top 30 recruit. The one that isn't quite one and done, but can play. The same factors above are used against us (Roy loyal to upperclassmen), but this is where the uncertainty and scandal is used against us.

True. Hopefully Jalek and Coby at least signal a halt that disturbing trend.

 

[gary-7]

Please know that 99.9% of what I say is meant to just poke some fun and provide humor. Hell, we've been going at this for almost 10 years now, I think we reserve the right to bust each other's balls.

You're right, Cal is shady as hell. And I know for an absolute 100% fact two other coaches are as well.

This one just doesn't feel bought mostly for the fact that Cal didn't really need Knox. Plus, they were SO public about their recruitment. USA Today articles, taking every interview they could get, etc. Kids who are getting money under the table generally don't want so much light shed on their recruitment. It's probably the reason why you didn't hear shit about Wiggins and he just strung us along until like June.

I hear ya, and I appreciate the smartassery --- I'm guilty of it myself from time to time.

I also can see the "doesn't feel bought" perspective, so to that end I'll just put it here that what went down with Knox happened almost 2 months before his actual commitment (back before Vanderbilt popped), so he was still seen then to be a need for our greasy friend in Lexington. Not surprisingly when Vanderbilt committed most recruiting guys dismissed uk with Knox, and hell, even I hoped that would steer him back to the light, but alas I also knew Capel was scurrying to catch up with WWW, thus my lament I posted on here that we were "bringing a knife to a gun-fight".

Going back to what @soap - new and improved posted, it would not surprise me one bit if Roy cut bait behind the scenes.

 

[truetarheelraider0806]

...and there were other factors going on with Knox that Roy will never stoop to compete with.

I heard Knox wanted UNC but daddy was wa$ holding out for ken$ucky

 

[gary-7]

I heard Knox wanted UNC but daddy was wa$ holding out for ken$ucky

I also believe that to be true.

 

[DSouthr]

The "Junk" and negative recruiting are two of the biggest reasons for missing on top level recruits. There are many factors involved like playing time, payoffs and academics as well, but to say that OAD aren't effected by the scandal is ridiculous!
Ingram and his pops both said it themselves, how can there be any better evidence?
This is a complex issue and the reputation as pro farm teams for some schools is also a factor but the idea that Roy or UNC hold players back is a bold faced lie!

Yeah, this is the thing, so many seem to want that one and only reason that we are not getting the constant flow of top 10 players we used to get. Problem is it isn't just one thing, it is several factors that have come together, there just isn't a one size fits all singular answer or solution.