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Quick stuff (CoC game)...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and this was about identities.

Before I dive in, lemme say nice win. And that's not just a platitude --- this was a very loseable game. So yeah.

- But now back to that "identities" thing: Charleston's identity is to push tempo above all else, take a lot of shots --- some good, an awful lot bad --- and hope they can prevail by sheer volume. We, on the other hand, haven't established an identity yet. When we do, I can only hope we don't settle for anything resembling theirs (which some fans inexplicably seem to want).

- Dean used to FEAST on teams that play like CoC, by playing sound controlled fast-break Carolina basketball, NOT racehorse if-it-feels-like-leather-shoot-it nonsense. Suffice to say that, at this point, our shot-selection leaves a lot to be desired. And as usual, most success tonight came adhering to our principals, especially from pounding the rock inside, and certainly not from 4-men trying to drive from the damned wing 3-point line.

- One thing that looks like it might be part of our identity is set plays --- we ran a lot, and by my count scored 43 points off them. Most of you however realize that's a double-edged sword, speaking poorly for our freelance and transition games at this juncture. Ball security (lack thereof) contributed to a miserable first half that like to got us blown out early, and a lot of that came from being unsure about what to do. Again, that's where identity comes in.

- Unsurprisingly and thankfully, Hubert came out for the second half in Dean Smith mode, and suddenly Bacot was getting his touches, and we ran sets designed for post entries. And golly gee, what happened? CoC, immediately got themselves in foul trouble (they were quite the grabby bunch) and we grinded out a lead for the first time all night.

- (edit) Forget to mention this initially, but we saw a couple of interesting things tonight: Leaky running Point when RJ was struggling and going "Small" late in the game with Leaky at the 4. While I've never been a fan of the former, I think it was designed to settle things down, and it kinda did, and the latter was a good adjustment to their personnel.

- OK, back to the weekly elephant in the room: Defense. The best news tonight was our Help-D in the paint was night-and-day improved and we were thus getting some rim protection ops (especially Bacot). Of course, it didn't hurt that they seldom saw a sketchy drive they wouldn't try, but still... they might've hung a hundie on us if we had helped as poorly as we did vs Brown. So that was encouraging. I wish, however, I could say the on-ball D was markedly better but I can't. For his part, Leaky was very good --- and BTW, why they thought it was a good idea to iso #12 time and again is beyond me, but hey, it distracted them from hunting out Kerwin, so well... thanks.

- Finally, (with apologies to the great Jon Stewart), Hubert... meet me at Camera 3. You did a great job wrangling us through the second half with all the set plays (33 points in the second half alone!), but c'mon, you played for Dean. SHOT SELECTION STILL MATTERS! And ours was LOUSY in the first half especially. Please don't even tacitly encourage that... and please spend some extra video time with Dawson on that note. At some point we hafta get to a rhythm and identity that can function in transition and Freelance on its own, so hammer those Carolina principals into their heads!

Anyway, again this is a game we could've lost, and kudos for not panicking when were offering up largely self-inflicted wounds early on (15 points allowed off TOs --- yikes!). There are some positives to build on as we head into a weekend Murderer's Row. And hey, it's always particularly gratifying to get a win over a team that relies on unsound dribble-drive shortcuts... :cool:
 
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Lol Gary, this was your first chance to give a kid some credit that you’ve given hell for two years. Instead a back hand of at least they didn’t hunt out Kerwin. SMH. He literally played good d tonight. One lapse at the end of the first half of no help. His man drove by him two times in the second and he fouled him. Two bad passes….but several great passes and lit it up from deep. I don’t get it. And look, I’m not the kids dad or don’t even know him but dang what gives? This was an eat crow game for several peeps, including me. I’ll get offmy box now.
As for the rest, good write up as usual.
 
Lol Gary, this was your first chance to give a kid some credit that you’ve given hell for two years. Instead a back hand of at least they didn’t hunt out Kerwin. SMH. He literally played good d tonight. One lapse at the end of the first half of no help. His man drove by him two times in the second and he fouled him. Two bad passes….but several great passes and lit it up from deep. I don’t get it. And look, I’m not the kids dad or don’t even know him but dang what gives? This was an eat crow game for several peeps, including me. I’ll get offmy box now.
As for the rest, good write up as usual.
Hey brother, not trying to pick on Kerwin and he indeed knocked down some key shots, but on the other end, well, suffice to say I'm glad they kept testing Leaky.

On that note, I've been (rightly) critical of Leaky's play and attitude at times, but thus far, he may be our most pleasant surprise this season.
 
Hey brother, not trying to pick on Kerwin and he indeed knocked down some key shots, but on the other end, well, suffice to say I'm glad they kept testing Leaky.

On that note, I've been (rightly) critical of Leaky's play and attitude at times, but thus far, he may be our most pleasant surprise this season.
I agree on Leaky. Has a great role on this team right now.
 
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Nice analysis @gary-7. Very nice games by Bacot and Manek. Love played well in the second stanza. Leaky defended well for the most part and provided a steadying influence on the team when we were down big. He may have found his niche.

I miss seeing the staff in suits, looks much classier IMO. Nice win in a hostile environment against a good team.
 
- Dean used to FEAST on teams that play like CoC, by playing sound controlled fast-break Carolina basketball, NOT racehorse if-it-feels-like-leather-shoot-it nonsense. Suffice to say that, at this point, our shot-selection leaves a lot to be desired. And as usual, most success tonight came adhering to our principals, especially from pounding the rock inside, and certainly not from 4-men trying to drive from the damned wing 3-point line.

- Finally, (with apologies to the great Jon Stewart), Hubert... meet me at Camera 3. You did a great job wrangling us through the second half with all the set plays (33 points in the second half alone!), but c'mon, you played for Dean. SHOT SELECTION STILL MATTERS!
And ours was LOUSY in the first half especially. Please don't even tacitly encourage that... and please spend some extra video time with Dawson on that note. At some point we hafta get to a rhythm and identity that can function in transition and Freelance on its own, so hammer those Carolina principals into their heads!
1. North Carolina --123 Loyola Marymount -- 97 (1988 NCAA Tourney)
They came in there all cocky, leading the country in scoring and DES ran them out the gym with that rec league ball.

2. Hate to throw a kid under the bus after 3 games but Justin is not it. That kid putting the ball on the floor going to the basket is a complete disaster right now. And Garcia isn't looking a whole lot better.
Why not give Styles some minutes on the wing? Come on Hubert

3. If this free for all shot selection going to be the new "Carolina Way". Lord help us😳
 
Thanks Gary, for the summary.

As I mentioned to you earlier, due to some family business, I was unable to attend or even listen to this game, so I do not have much to say analytically. And many on this forum may be thanking the good Lord for that. I did get an opportunity to review the box score and that was interesting. The stats show that we held them to 34.6% overall shooting, and that's fairly good but, as you said, overall defense is maybe still lacking?

I think that some issues that plague us are a result of slow starts offensively and that can be attributed to nerves, pressure, hostile venues, and, once again FOCUS.

My eyes always go to the column of TO's. We had 17 overall and that makes a game look very ugly and real quick..... glad I didn't have to see that. While the team as a whole, is apparently losing it's focus on ball security, we managed to shoot 54% on FG's 35% on 3 point shots, and 71% FT's. Those are fairly good numbers overall.

Guys, let's not forget that this is the 1st time this team and for several of our players, the 1st time in their careers, that they have played an away game in a small and packed (5K or so ?) venue, with a hostile home crowd and managed to win. That's good for chemistry building and the experience factor going forth that should help them play more sound under pressure in away games ahead.



Looking ahead, we have top 10 teams on the schedule, and it gets real, and real fast now. I hope that we can acquit ourselves with our play this coming weekend.
 
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1. North Carolina --123 Loyola Marymount -- 97 (1988 NCAA Tourney)
They came in there all cocky, leading the country in scoring and DES ran them out the gym with that rec league ball.

2. Hate to throw a kid under the bus after 3 games but Justin is not it. That kid putting the ball on the floor going to the basket is a complete disaster right now. And Garcia isn't looking a whole lot better.
Why not give Styles some minutes on the wing? Come on Hubert

3. If this free for all shot selection going to be the new "Carolina Way". Lord help us😳
I agree, Styles should be backing Leaky up at the three position and McKoy should only be playing as a backup 4. McKoy has shown me nothing as a 3. Also I believe that both Harris and Dunn are better defensively than our starting guards and should be given at least a few minutes playing time.
 
One difference with Hubert so far from Roy is his fairly tight rotation for game time, especially early in the season. Pretty tight rotation of 8, with the featured guns playing big minutes.
 
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One noticeable difference is that Roy played a lot of guys early on. HD has mostly kept Dunn and Styles relegated to the bench and from what I’ve seen of Styles, he’s as good or better than McCoy right now and has much more upside. I think Styles needs 5-7 mpg which will make us a better deeper team late in the year.
 
3-0 and we are questioning Hubert's rotation? SMH.

IMO, 3 games is not a large enough sample to throw McKoy under the bus. Apparently, he is showing Hubert something in practice for Hubert to keep him out there.
 
That was a well coached game by Hubert, this is a game in the last 5 years we would have lost. I like the shorter bench, it allow guys to have the game come to them and to adjust.

So far Hubert gets an A from me, not that that matters what I think but it is what it is!
 
Good write up. I feel like this is the type of game Carolina has lost the last few years. Opponent feeding off the crowd and coming out hot. Leaky very strong game defensively.
 
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I too would like to see Styles a little bit..not really questioning the rotation though! I thought Hubert did a great job of switching it up and adapting to what the other team was doing! When Garcia and Manek were in near the end we were getting killed on dribble drive! He switched and put Leaky at the 4 without hesitation! I loved Roy but I feel Roy would have left that lineup longer and they would have made more of a run! I like Leaky at the 4 some and even McKoy or Styles there! One thing I noticed...it’s gonna be hard to play Manek and Garcia together for long stretches! They aren’t great defenders and lack athleticism..I’m also ready for Puff’s return. I think he will really help us! Overall it was a good second half..Love and Bacot were great, Walton hit big shots! Davis made some things happen, and Leaky locked down! Good win
 
Manek did not come in with a great D reputation but Garcia is supposed to be really good. In fact, I think Hubert said something to the effect that Dawson might be the best defensive big in the country? I am surprised at McKoy--might be real reasons he was not getting more playing time at Virginia. I would like to see more of Styles just to see what he can do. Ant is going to be needed at some point so would also like to see him with some minutes. Don't know enough about Dunn to comment.
 
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Early in the year, buy I find it troubling. Suddenly Tar Heel nation is finding silver linings in struggling to beat College of Charleston. UNC should beat that type of school to sleep. I don't care if it is at home, or on the road. And the pitiful effort at home the other night should have been a wake up call. It's early, and I am hoping for the best. But to this point seeing some of the same issues that plagued us the last couple of years. That won't cut it against high level competition.
 
Offensively, Armando has kept us in both of the last 2 games until the rest of our guys got it together. Two double-doubles out of 3 games. Two game MVPs out of 3 games. With most of his scoring coming early, iirc.

Which makes me worry about the inevitable day when the other team is able to shut him down (or when he's sick or whatever).

He's hitting 82% from 2-pt range. And he's been dominant in the first half.

Usually Manek helps up front early, whereas Garcia sometimes takes a while to show up. Similarly, it often seems that Caleb doesn't show up until the 2nd half.

[I didn't see the CC game, so I don't know if Armando continued being the guy who kept us in the game during the first half.]
 
Thanks G-7 for the awesome analysis! Whew, it was a win! We still are a work in progress, but this year we are learning to play after exciting wins and not soul crushing losses! I need to see way less dribbling by McKoy and Garcia until they tighten up their handles! I need to see vast and quick improvement in shot selection. I love the way Hubs used non-traditional lineups to deal with what the other team was doing. I wonder why we aren't seeing much of Harris, Styles, and Dunn, but I assume it must have to do with practice OR others earning PT in game!

Leaky is the key to this team's success and I LOVE it!
(wish I wasn't petty enough to crow, but.....)
 
One difference with Hubert so far from Roy is his fairly tight rotation for game time, especially early in the season. Pretty tight rotation of 8, with the featured guns playing big minutes.
Yeah. That's one thing I miss from the Roy era. I liked watching more players try to earn PT early in the season. I think it helps the team, and also helps the individual players. And every once in a while, it helps down the stretch.

OTOH, if Hubert had imitated Roy on this, we'd probably be 1-2 right now.

Hard to tell if Hubert is using a short rotation because that's what he prefers or because he doesn't think this team can win if the benchers get more burn early in games.
 
Early in the year, buy I find it troubling. Suddenly Tar Heel nation is finding silver linings in struggling to beat College of Charleston. UNC should beat that type of school to sleep. I don't care if it is at home, or on the road. And the pitiful effort at home the other night should have been a wake up call. It's early, and I am hoping for the best. But to this point seeing some of the same issues that plagued us the last couple of years. That won't cut it against high level competition.
I can see why initially you would say this, but they have had some good teams over the years. Matter of fact, they beat one our best teams ever in 98.
 
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Leaky is the key to this team's success and I LOVE it!
Don't look now but Leaky is 5-10 from the field. With all the scorers we have, he doesn't need to shoot often. And that percentage is plenty good enough to justify him getting serious PT - so we can benefit from his stat-stuffing in other areas and, of course, his D.
 
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This weekend will be a real measuring stick for the team ...they may surprise us with their improved d... just a hunch but I am looking forward to playing Purdue
 
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I can understand the calls for Styles to get more PT. He's obviously very athletic, and looks like he may have a lot of upside. But except for one awesome rebound and putback a couple of games ago, I haven't seen anything in his limited minutes that says he should be on the floor more.

That said, when we aren't playing catchup so much, I imagine we will see more of him. He could be one of those guys who could be valuable down the stretch if he can learn enough by then.
 
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Honestly, Purdue is the scariest of the bunch to me. They are experienced and physical. I think this weekend will be fun, but at times painful I'm guessing! The team will learn a great deal and win or lose, will grow quite a bit this weekend!
 
This is a poor take.
He’s not wrong. We should expect excellence at Carolina as a blue blood. Accepting close wins to Brown and CofC is accepting mediocrity. I can imagine IU fans and UConn fans did the same and as a result they’re now a “has been” school.

And nothing I am saying is questioning HD specifically. But I’m sure not content about winning close games against terrible competition.
 
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He’s not wrong. We should expect excellence at Carolina as a blue blood. Accepting close wins to Brown and CofC is accepting mediocrity. I can imagine IU fans and UConn fans did the same and as a result they’re now a “has been” school.

And nothing I am saying is questioning HD specifically. But I’m sure not content about winning close games against terrible competition.
I think we should expect to win against mid majors but we should realize it’s not always gonna be easy! We should be excited that we won and played a really good second half in an extremely tough environment and against an opponent that could have ran through a wall the first 10 minutes...even in our national championship years we have struggled against some mid majors (Santa Clara 05, Nothern Iowa 17) Hell we lost those games! Pinson and Berry senior year we lost to a good Wofford team at home! It happens, so I’m thrilled with that win last night! All teams struggle with lesser competition at some point! Dook, Kensucky, UVA, Kansas...it’s happened to a lot of great programs..especially recently!
 
And don’t forget the transfer portal and the fact that kids can stay an extra year. There were freshmen playing against some grown men LOL. This is definitely changed the dynamic of college basketball as we once knew it. I think it’s spread the love and the talent around to where smaller teams are going to compete better while Blue Bloods still lose guys early to the league.
 
Garcia is struggling to fit at the 4 spot with Leaky on the floor at the 3. At Marquette he was able to play on the perimeter more.
 
At UNC, he will get to play more on the perimeter once he displays better ball handling, shot selection, and entry passes.

I think it will click for Garcia very soon, but McKoy to me has a longer way to go. I fully expect both to be much improved by ACC time!
 
Garcia needs, and will, just relax and as they say, let the game come to him. He is trying to force to much right now and this has led to some poor shot selection. McKoy seems to really lack foot speed.
 
It seems to feel like a Deanne Smith type of a team. His teams where frequently down 4 to 6 points at half time and finished up strong. Did not you have to show defense before you could play? The rotation is a work in progress???
 
First?
Purdue is more than enough for this Tar Heel team...Michigan just lost to Seton Hall...it happens.
 
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