Quick stuff (Michigan game)...

[alabamaheel]

Pete gets burnt way too much to help us if he’s not going to be a better scorer. In order for him to help us without being a consistent scorer, he needs to be a lock down defender. Brady Manek at least tried at all aspects of the game and helped us big time on the offensive end. Nance has had a few decent good games and hit a big shot against Ohio State but you can’t tell me he’s a good Brady Manek replacement. We are missing that “other guy” who can score and open up the offense even more. Defense is great but not as important if you can outscore your opponent almost every time.

Oh no doubt. I never said Pete was better for us all around. I agree. I just think Pete defers too much while maybe trying to find his spot. He’s got the chops to compete and has definitely showed them off. I too would love to see him be more consistent on d.

 

[2DDIMOND]

Pete gets burnt way too much to help us if he’s not going to be a better scorer. In order for him to help us without being a consistent scorer, he needs to be a lock down defender. Brady Manek at least tried at all aspects of the game and helped us big time on the offensive end. Nance has had a few decent good games and hit a big shot against Ohio State but you can’t tell me he’s a good Brady Manek replacement. We are missing that “other guy” who can score and open up the offense even more. Defense is great but not as important if you can outscore your opponent almost every time.

I really believe DiMarco Dunn is that “other guy”, he just needs to get healthy & in a rhythm with more minutes. Not to mention he’s a plus defender also.

 

[imajericho]

Manek was arguably a defensive menace down the stretch for us. The only person that abused him was the Kansas center who was way bigger than him.

 

[DSouthr]

Brady was not a better defender. Pete may get burned a few times but Brady was abused and taken advantage of often. Pete seems to work when needed. I’m amazed he can go a full game without a shot, then score or look to score a few plays in a row. I think he’s too unselfish at times. May be his experience idk.

Nance to me is a bit of an enigma, there is a lot I do like about his game but he has slow feet, is not real athletic, and is not physical. I LOVE him shooting the mid range, he uses his height really well to get that shot off and he is solid with it. Uses his height well as a post defender does not bite on pump fakes often but does not seem strong enough to stop a guy from powering up and thru him in the post. He does seem to have a good knock for rebounding and runs the court well.

He and Manek are just 2 very different types of players, manek was more a long wing in the way he played for us, his motor ran pretty hot, Nance's motor isn't really looking like it will over heat any time soon. I would like to see him set a LOT, a LOT more screens and pop to a spot in a passing lane for more mid range stuff. He is the guy I want in the middle of that Syracuse zone and have Bacot come off the short corner, I do like the way nance passes the ball when he has time.

 

[alabamaheel]

Nance to me is a bit of an enigma, there is a lot I do like about his game but he has slow feet, is not real athletic, and is not physical. I LOVE him shooting the mid range, he uses his height really well to get that shot off and he is solid with it. Uses his height well as a post defender does not bite on pump fakes often but does not seem strong enough to stop a guy from powering up and thru him in the post. He does seem to have a good knock for rebounding and runs the court well.

He and Manek are just 2 very different types of players, manek was more a long wing in the way he played for us, his motor ran pretty hot, Nance's motor isn't really looking like it will over heat any time soon. I would like to see him set a LOT, a LOT more screens and pop to a spot in a passing lane for more mid range stuff. He is the guy I want in the middle of that Syracuse zone and have Bacot come off the short corner, I do like the way nance passes the ball when he has time.

He’s perplexing to me also. He’s showed a few games where he can do it all. But also showed a few games where he disappears. I think he caters to the guards too much. I want him to bow up and take control some time.

 

[gary-7]

The offense has been good except for a game here and there. I expect that to continue and even get a bit better as we hit more threes. Perhaps those who know more basketball than me are right about us ending the "unfortunate offensive experiment", but I see pretty similar sets. We still run tons of horns and pick-and roll; Pete still plays on the outside when Bacot is in, and Bacot still gets the ball at the top of the key a lot.

Oh, I can assure you the unfortunate experiment was very real and VERY differerent from what we are doing now. Sure, we use many of the same called plays, but in standard sets we were going entire possessions with nobody in Carolina blue so much as setting foot in the paint(!). And the starting point was peeling off the Secondary and not attacking the block, thus wasting the Big and killing the entire concept.

This accounted for the resulting drop-off of offensive rebounding, paint points, and near disappearance of Assists. In general we were playing outside-in instead of inside-out. It also inadvertently encouraged our Guards' worst habits, e.g., too much dribbling, turning the ball over, and forcing shots.

The GaTech game was indeed the resetting point, and let us hope that continues to progress.

 

[heels05champs]

Oh, I can assure you the undortunate experiment was very real and VERY differerent from what we are doing now. Sure, we use many of the same called plays, but in standard sets we were going entire possessions with nobody in Carolina blue so much as setting foot in the paint(!). And the staring point was peeling off the Secondary and not attacking the block, thus wasting the Big and killing the entire concept.

This accounted for the resulting drop-off of offensive rebounding, paint points, and near disappearance of Assists. In general we were playing outside-in instead of inside-out. It also inadvertently encouraged our Guards' worst habits, e.g., too much dribbling, turning the ball over, and forcing shots.

The GaTech game was indeed the resetting point, and let us hope that continues to progress.

I guess my question would be is why? Why would a coaching staff full of Carolina alum with a blueprint of what has worked for decades decide to intentionally try something so polar opposite to our foundation?

 

[gary-7]

I guess my question would be is why? Why would a coaching staff full of Carolina alum with a blueprint of what has worked for decades decide to intentionally try something so polar opposite to our foundation?

Well, @Tarheel75 explained much of that earlier ITT. And I also understand that it came from the well-intended (but misplaced) notion that it would help elite recruiting to play a more "NBA style" offense.

As much as I love this staff, this was just a bad idea. Remember though, that any coaching staff is thoroughly capable of outthinking itself with the best of intentions. The important thing is making it a lesson learned and moving on instead of doubling down.

 

[Tarheel75]

Oh, I can assure you the unfortunate experiment was very real and VERY differerent from what we are doing now. Sure, we use many of the same called plays, but in standard sets we were going entire possessions with nobody in Carolina blue so much as setting foot in the paint(!). And the starting point was peeling off the Secondary and not attacking the block, thus wasting the Big and killing the entire concept.

This accounted for the resulting drop-off of offensive rebounding, paint points, and near disappearance of Assists. In general we were playing outside-in instead of inside-out. It also inadvertently encouraged our Guards' worst habits, e.g., too much dribbling, turning the ball over, and forcing shots.

The GaTech game was indeed the resetting point, and let us hope that continues to progress.

Just an addendum:

Have you noticed that we also stopped using that drag screen that was used in that offense?

On every possession, Bacot would trot up the court with the ball in a guard's hands behind him and he would stop at the top of the 3-point circle and the offense was initiated from there. Whereas now he runs directly to the low block to set up and the offense is run once he is in position.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Manek was arguably a defensive menace down the stretch for us. The only person that abused him was the Kansas center who was way bigger than him.

He was a major defensive liability for the first 2/3rds of the season.

He was never a defensive menace. The staff changed how the team played defense for our stretch run, and that put Manek in a position to play long minutes without hurting us defensively. They stopped asking him to do things he wasn't capable of.

 

[gary-7]

Just an addendum:

Have you noticed that we also stopped using that drag screen that was used in that offense?

On every possession, Bacot would trot up the court with the ball in a guard's hands behind him and he would stop at the top of the 3-point circle and the offense was initiated from there. Whereas now he runs directly to the low block to set up and the offense is run once he is in position.

Absolutely. That was the very thing that was killing the Secondaty, and truth be known, the single most counterproductive thing we were doing. But as you said previously, that was the attempt to "trigger" the unfortunate offensive experiment, but that of course meant more dribbling instead of passing --- which was the LAST thing we needed

 

[DaveChapelle]

I really believe DiMarco Dunn is that “other guy”, he just needs to get healthy & in a rhythm with more minutes. Not to mention he’s a plus defender also.

Aside from the multiple times he's fouled jumpshooters this season.

 

[DaveChapelle]

I guess my question would be is why? Why would a coaching staff full of Carolina alum with a blueprint of what has worked for decades decide to intentionally try something so polar opposite to our foundation?

Because they want to impress recruits and sell the idea of a NBA offense.

 

[imajericho]

He was a major defensive liability for the first 2/3rds of the season.

He was never a defensive menace. The staff changed how the team played defense for our stretch run, and that put Manek in a position to play long minutes without hurting us defensively. They stopped asking him to do things he wasn't capable of.

He literally held Paolo in check both Duke games. He was absolutely good defensively from the Pitt game on and our defensive efficiency from then until like the final four was like top 5 in the country according to kenpom.

 

[imajericho]

2021-22 UNC Tar Heels Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

2021-22 UNC Tar Heels Roster and Stats

www.sports-reference.com

Manek had more defensive win shares than black or leaky and had a better defensive plus/minus against the average than Love significantly but significantly worse than Black.
And that's considering how bad his numbers were at the beginning of the season, which tells you how good they were to the end of the season.

 

[gkss]

Nance to me is a bit of an enigma, there is a lot I do like about his game but he has slow feet, is not real athletic, and is not physical. I LOVE him shooting the mid range, he uses his height really well to get that shot off and he is solid with it. Uses his height well as a post defender does not bite on pump fakes often but does not seem strong enough to stop a guy from powering up and thru him in the post. He does seem to have a good knock for rebounding and runs the court well.

He and Manek are just 2 very different types of players, manek was more a long wing in the way he played for us, his motor ran pretty hot, Nance's motor isn't really looking like it will over heat any time soon. I would like to see him set a LOT, a LOT more screens and pop to a spot in a passing lane for more mid range stuff. He is the guy I want in the middle of that Syracuse zone and have Bacot come off the short corner, I do like the way nance passes the ball when he has time.

I’m so happy to have Nance! Manek was so special for us- especially down the stretch. Nance is special, and I look forward to his mark on this team going forward.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Just an addendum:

Have you noticed that we also stopped using that drag screen that was used in that offense?

On every possession, Bacot would trot up the court with the ball in a guard's hands behind him and he would stop at the top of the 3-point circle and the offense was initiated from there. Whereas now he runs directly to the low block to set up and the offense is run once he is in position.

It’s input like this that keeps me coming back to radar. Thank you ‘75 and Gary for your technical insights…

Truth be told, I wouldn’t know a drag screen from a drag queen!

 

[DaveChapelle]

He literally held Paolo in check both Duke games. He was absolutely good defensively from the Pitt game on and our defensive efficiency from then until like the final four was like top 5 in the country according to kenpom.

That's the final 1/3rd of the season, after the staff changed the team defense.

 

[heels05champs]

Because they want to impress recruits and sell the idea of a NBA offense.

That’s pretty shortsighted to sell out on a proven style of offense to better recruit a OAD type player.

 

[DaveChapelle]

That’s pretty shortsighted to sell out on a proven style of offense to better recruit a OAD type player.

Who said anything about the recruits being one-and-done?

It's to recruit. Period. One-and-done recruits aren't the only recruits who want to play in a modern system similar to the NBA that prioritizes spacing, shooting, and pick & roll.

 

[gary-7]

Who said anything about the recruits being one-and-done?

It's to recruit. Period. One-and-done recruits aren't the only recruits who want to play in a modern system similar to the NBA that prioritizes spacing, shooting, and pick & roll.

While there may be some truth to that, this line of thinking is entirely overblown. Not many college teams play 5-out (and most of those do so due to lack of size). Even NBA farm-teams like uk and dook aren't doing it.

Moreover, this current NBA stuff is just another fad that copy-cat teams in pro sports seemingly regularly go through. And being candid, if playing that garbage is what it takes to get a certain player, then that player is more than welcome to go elsewhere.

 

[Tarheel75]

That’s pretty shortsighted to sell out on a proven style of offense to better recruit a OAD type player.

heels05champs: Hindsight is always 20/20. Whenever installing a new offense or defense, you have to take time and games to run it or you're wasting everyone's
time. Many successes are borne out of trial and error, if not, vaccines, surgeries, and many, many other advances in history would not have been possible. That's all that the new offense turned out to be..., trial & error.

Be thankful that the new offensive experiment was tried and found to be sorely lacking, and has been mostly discarded and replaced with an offense that has some real punch now. What we need now is improvement on defense. So, I disagree that there's any short sidedness involved, just trial & error. And about recruiting, while the staff does want to recruit some who may be 1 and done, the style of play does have an effect on recruits.

 

[gary-7]

heels05champs: Hindsight is always 20/20. Whenever installing a new offense or defense, you have to take time and games to run it or you're wasting everyone's
time. Many successes are borne out of trial and error, if not, vaccines, surgeries, and many, many other advances in history would not have been possible. That's all that the new offense turned out to be..., trial & error.

Be thankful that the new offensive experiment was tried and found to be sorely lacking, and has been mostly discarded and replaced with an offense that has some real punch now. What we need now is improvement on defense. So, I disagree that there's any short sidedness involved, just trial & error. And about recruiting, while the staff does want to recruit some who may be 1 and done, the style of play does have an effect on recruits.

75, now that you mention that, what the current/former coaches in my circle have found amusingly ironic amongst all the "trendy" stuff is that, in college hoops, this is being dubbed the "Year of the Big Man" --- and for good reason.

The Bacot-Dickinson battle is just one of several this season. Look around the country --- not just that behemoth at Purdue, but UConn, AZ, Gonzaga, uk and a host of others are boasting Bigs who can play ---- many or most of whom aren't "Stretches".

 

[Tarheel75]

75, now that you mention that, what the current/former coaches in my circle have found amusingly ironic amongst all the "trendy" stuff is that, in college hoops, this is being dubbed the "Year of the Big Man" --- and for good reason.

The Bacot-Dickinson battle is just one of several this season. Look around the country --- not just that behemoth at Purdue, but UConn, AZ, Gonzaga, uk and a host of others are boasting Bigs who can play ---- many or most of whom aren't "Stretches".

I agree.

 

[alabamaheel]

heels05champs: Hindsight is always 20/20. Whenever installing a new offense or defense, you have to take time and games to run it or you're wasting everyone's
time. Many successes are borne out of trial and error, if not, vaccines, surgeries, and many, many other advances in history would not have been possible. That's all that the new offense turned out to be..., trial & error.

Be thankful that the new offensive experiment was tried and found to be sorely lacking, and has been mostly discarded and replaced with an offense that has some real punch now. What we need now is improvement on defense. So, I disagree that there's any short sidedness involved, just trial & error. And about recruiting, while the staff does want to recruit some who may be 1 and done, the style of play does have an effect on recruits.

Nail meet head! I’m more impressed that the staff tried something diff , thinking it would help, realized it didn’t, and changed to suit our specific team needs. They could have been prideful and stuck with it to try to prove a point. Clap clap clap.

 

[Archer2]

Nail meet head! I’m more impressed that the staff tried something diff , thinking it would help, realized it didn’t, and changed to suit our specific team needs. They could have been prideful and stuck with it to try to prove a point. Clap clap clap.

I sincerely hope that is the case, I’m not sure. This latest “experiment” scared me a little. Even I knew it wasn’t going to work. I’m still trying to decipher exactly what this staff wants to run. I know one thing. If we continue to play inside out, we’ll be successful. Otherwise, we won’t. Just my $.02 worth.

 

[Tarheel75]

I sincerely hope that is the case, I’m not sure. This latest “experiment” scared me a little. Even I knew it wasn’t going to work. I’m still trying to decipher exactly what this staff wants to run. I know one thing. If we continue to play inside out, we’ll be successful. Otherwise, we won’t. Just my $.02 worth.

Hello Archer, hope you and yours are safe and are having a bang-up holiday today.

When I read your post, I just wondered if you were still living in the last half of last season, where we regrouped and played extremely good basketball and, sans a few injuries, most likely would have won that NC. Think back to how you felt about the team's play after the Pitt loss. Were you scared then? Just think about that and ask yourself...., has the rebirth of our offense improved how we have played?

The performances during the last 4 games leave little doubt that our figurative train is back on the track, we are definitely improving offensively, but still have to bring our defenses up to snuff, which I suspect will happen, as we got a glimpse of against UM in the 2nd half of that game as we decided to play some defense and I think it will stick with the players much like it did last year. The chemistry of this team is building, and we should improve even more game over game as this season moves along.

So, don't be scared, be excited to watch the growth of the team, win, lose, or draw.
75

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

As you said above, the logical next-in-line for PGU is now being wasted by that lame-brain Oats, despite a valiant effort by the current staff to rescue a recruitment that had gone south a year earlier.

Question.

We used to miss out on some kids because of money - or so many thought - back when money was a no-no. Does NIL make most of that go away?

Schools like us that used to lose the occasional kid because he, his parents or whoever were too focused on money should have an equal shot most of the time now, right? Or is that wishful thinking?

I mean there could still be dirty deals - if, say, the NIL arrangements are clear and lucrative early on - but I'm thinking there's not much need for that now, so good schools should fare better against those that used to be willing to cheat.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

75, now that you mention that, what the current/former coaches in my circle have found amusingly ironic amongst all the "trendy" stuff is that, in college hoops, this is being dubbed the "Year of the Big Man" --- and for good reason.

The Bacot-Dickinson battle is just one of several this season. Look around the country --- not just that behemoth at Purdue, but UConn, AZ, Gonzaga, uk and a host of others are boasting Bigs who can play....

Is this because of NIL? The relaxed portal rules? Something else?

If so, is it a temporary effect or here to stay?

 

[gary-7]

Question.

We used to miss out on some kids because of money - or so many thought - back when money was a no-no. Does NIL make most of that go away?

Schools like us that used to lose the occasional kid because he, his parents or whoever were too focused on money should have an equal shot most of the time now, right? Or is that wishful thinking?

I mean there could still be dirty deals - if, say, the NIL arrangements are clear and lucrative early on - but I'm thinking there's not much need for that now, so good schools should fare better against those that used to be willing to cheat.

NIL is an unholy mess. BUT... it has inadverently benefitted UNC basketball because it gives excellent players who aren't prototype NBAers motivation to stick around longer.

The bad news is it has just given cover to the serial cheaters, and the corrupt NCAA regime under Emmert has dropped the ball all the way.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

NIL is an unholy mess. BUT... it has inadverently benefitted UNC basketball because it gives excellent players who aren't prototype NBAers motivation to stick around longer.

The bad news is it has just given cover to the serial cheaters, and the corrupt NCAA regime under Emmert has dropped the ball all the way.

All facts ✍️

 

[DSouthr]

75, now that you mention that, what the current/former coaches in my circle have found amusingly ironic amongst all the "trendy" stuff is that, in college hoops, this is being dubbed the "Year of the Big Man" --- and for good reason.

The Bacot-Dickinson battle is just one of several this season. Look around the country --- not just that behemoth at Purdue, but UConn, AZ, Gonzaga, uk and a host of others are boasting Bigs who can play ---- many or most of whom aren't "Stretches".

"All the trendy stuff", meaning the current pro sport fad. NBA coaches are copy cats, they see 1 coach do something different and it works they all swarm to it. I personally believe there is a lot more innovation of the game in college than in the NBA. The NBA can get away with the nonsense because they have the most talented players on the planet, I see NBA coaches as more baby sitters for spoiled millionaires than actual coaches that really innovate the and elevate the game. Sadly many college coaches as well as the players want to copy what the NBA is doing, I want the latest fad thing so I can be cool to! LOL