Quick stuff (Stanford game)...

[gary-7]

...and I had to take a breath before I wrote this one, because there's just no mitigating how bad this sucked.

Gonna start at the end (and please know I would've written this exact same thing if they had missed the last shot):

- Sure there are different philosphies of how to play these last-second situations, but IMO you just CANNOT afford to let a guy take the rock that close to the hoop unmolested. We have seen what happens over and over in history --- Danny Ainge and Ty Edney in the NCAAT, for example --- when you let a guy take the ball coast-to-coast. We were fortunate we got the stop at ND, and this time it bit us. With 7+ seconds a slight redirect ain't enough --- even on an early hand-off, you HAVE to anticipate and make him pick up his dribble with a shadow double and/or force him to the sideline.

OK... other stuff from my notes. Hubert was right at least that it wasn't just one thing thet went wrong today --- it was a bunch:

- This Stanford team is clunky at the handle, resorting to myriad push-offs, illegal screens and "happy feet" when forced to pick up dribbles (lordy at the travels), and wants to play slow. Point is, they were made to scramble against but the only wrinkle we threw in (other than one series of 44) was occasional pre-emptive doubles on their Big. By allowing them to play at their pace, they were able to work enough looks to make enough to keep us from getting out in transition.

- Speaking of transition, the only resistance they could offer was fouling (at least the ones that got called). We actually had 16 Fast Break points (home stat guy strikes again) but that needed to be more today. I did not like slowing to their tempo down the stretch.

- we know Raynaud is a skilled player, but good grief, we did some stupid sh*** to help him, like Wash leaving his feet or getting too close when he was 25 ft from the basket, and geez Lubin --- how the hell are you stuck in the paint when your man is alone at the arc and you know he can shoot?

- And just when this team seemed to be gelling defensively, just yikes at the breakdowns. How many times are ya gonna get punked on simple OB plays? Jackson in particular looked like a Freshman trailing behind #4 on simple actions several times, and even Seth got caught on his heels a time or two. In a lot of ways, those gaffes were self-inflicted difference-makers.

- RJ made a few shots today, and they were needed, but he is still far from back to assassin-mode. And as potent has Ian has been lately, hoo boy... yikes, not today.

- head-scrathing moments (again). Stanford's in Zone and we reverse to an advantage with ball going to Drake on the backside wing. Defense reacts leaving Tyson ALL ALONE in the corner next to him, but Drake ignores him while instead taking a dribble to force a shot. Later RJ ignores Tyson open in the other corner, again just an easy pass away, and turns and passes out. What the actual f***?

- any time Eliot was out any semblance of a half-court offense went away. TBH, he shouldn't have left the damn floor in the second half. That 12, 6 (not 5) and 6 line was much needed, but 25 minutes ain't enough.

- I did like the last play call to Seth, but not so fond of a few leading up to that one

Anyway, damn it! Every time we looked to pull away, one of the aforementioned f***-ups would reel us back in or let back them in. Just can't afford to play with fire. This one hurts and there's no way around it....

 

[RP12]

The RJ ignore of Cade was something it seems like has happened a lot with him, like he’s doing the math on who is open rather than moving the ball…that is when he sees them at all. I hate that Seth seemed to be back in drift mode at times but he did get more decisive a couple times late. I have no idea why they went to RJ iso backing up to 30 feet mode but assumed it would end badly when they did.

 

[r_u_worthy]

Thanks G- good summation. The thing that really bothers me is the Heels were content to play Stanfords game. Slow, methodical, and taking advantage of their size. I just don’t get running the same defensive look at them 99% of their possessions. Change the dang look up from time to time. We just weren’t disruptive enough defensively. They got what they wanted when they needed it. Big teams are real trouble…

 

[NathanFielder]

First off, credit to Blakes for making a big time shot to win the game. It was against UNC’s best defender. I thought he just made a big time play in a big moment. If you’re nitpicking, idk why Lubin just shows when Raynaud tosses it back to Blakes. I would’ve preferred a trap or an effort to get Blakes to stop or change direction. But if I’m being honest, Lubin probably fouls then because he isn’t quick enough to do so.

Unfortunately can’t say I’m surprised that this kind of performance happened. I think this is the reality of this team. They closer to a mid tier ACC team than they are conference contender.

In these kinds of games, the details matter late game. UNC makes 1 FG in the final 5:00. Granted it became a FT game but still, no close to this game offensively. Cadeau misses a FT. And RJ misses a wide ass open 3 in the final minute off of good action where Cadeau beats his man and forces RJ’s man to help. Last year, RJ probably makes that 3. This year, he clanks it and that probably would’ve been the dagger.

One thing about this team. I don’t think they’re an impose your will kind of team. They’re kind of quiet and somewhat passive. They definitely don’t have the DNA to impose their will for 40 minutes. I don’t know if that’s something that will change either. The leadership isn’t really there and I don’t know Hubert’s personality enough to know if they can take the personality of their coach.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We might have lost the double bye in the ACCT with this loss.

Can't afford to lose at Wake on Tuesday, but they haven't lost at home yet this year. Then again, they haven't played anyone good at home yet.

 

[Kool1234567]

I wonder does Hubert decline the NIT this year…

 

[notashelbyfan]

We are who we are we are, just a bad basketball team that is poorly coached.

We are not great but if we was well coached we would makeup for some of our other issues.

Hubert and his entire staff is as lost as a ball in tall weeds.

We have 7 losses and we have two more to Dook coming at least 1 to Pitt 1 Clemson and probably 1 to Wake this team is going finish with 13 loss if you count the ACCT completely unacceptable.

 

[gkss]

...and I had to take a breath before I wrote this one, because there's just no mitigating how bad this sucked.

Gonna start at the end (and please know I would've written this exact same thing if they had missed the last shot):

- Sure there are different philosphies of how to play these last-second situations, but IMO you just CANNOT afford to let a guy take the rock that close to the hoop unmolested. We have seen what happens over and over in history --- Danny Ainge and Ty Edney in the NCAAT, for example --- when you let a guy take the ball coast-to-coast. We were fortunate we got the stop at ND, and this time it bit us. With 7+ seconds a slight redirect ain't enough --- even on an early hand-off, you HAVE to anticipate and make him pick up his dribble with a shadow double and/or force him to the sideline.

OK... other stuff from my notes. Hubert was right at least that it wasn't just one thing thet went wrong today --- it was a bunch:

- This Stanford team is clunky at the handle, resorting to myriad push-offs, illegal screens and "happy feet" when forced to pick up dribbles (lordy at the travels), and wants to play slow. Point is, they were made to scramble against but the only wrinkle we threw in (other than one series of 44) was occasional pre-emptive doubles on their Big. By allowing them to play at their pace, they were able to work enough looks to make enough to keep us from getting out in transition.

- Speaking of transition, the only resistance they could offer was fouling (at least the ones that got called). We actually had 16 Fast Break points (home stat guy strikes again) but that needed to be more today. I did not like slowing to their tempo down the stretch.

- we know Raynaud is a skilled player, but good grief, we did some stupid sh*** to help him, like Wash leaving his feet or getting too close when he was 25 ft from the basket, and geez Lubin --- how the hell are you stuck in the paint when your man is alone at the arc and you know he can shoot?

- And just when this team seemed to be gelling defensively, just yikes at the breakdowns. How many times are ya gonna get punked on simple OB plays? Jackson in particular looked like a Freshman trailing behind #4 on simple actions several times, and even Seth got caught on his heels a time or two. In a lot of ways, those gaffes were self-inflicted difference-makers.

- RJ made a few shots today, and they were needed, but he is still far from back to assassin-mode. And as potent has Ian has been lately, hoo boy... yikes, not today.

- head-scrathing moments (again). Stanford's in Zone and we reverse to an advantage with ball going to Drake on the backside wing. Defense reacts leaving Tyson ALL ALONE in the corner next to him, but Drake ignores him while instead taking a dribble to force a shot. Later RJ ignores Tyson open in the other corner, again just an easy pass away, and turns and passes out. What the actual f***?

- any time Eliot was out any semblance of a half-court offense went away. TBH, he shouldn't have left the damn floor in the second half. That 12, 6 (not 5) and 6 line was much needed, but 25 minutes ain't enough.

- I did like the last play call to Seth, but not so fond of a few leading up to that one

Anyway, damn it! Every time we looked to pull away, one of the aforementioned f***-ups would reel us back in or let back them in. Just can't afford to play with fire. This one hurts and there's no way around it....

Well said. Terrible execution defensively on the game winner. They’re running full speed, including the ex Dukie, and we are back peddling. No way he should have been allowed to get downhill like that without stopping the dribble, or some alteration. Seth was out of position on his hip and with a bump and stop the shooter had an open look. I have been very patient with our coaching staff, but my patience is running thin. I know there is disagreement regarding Tyson, but I think that an important role of coaching is player development. I’m not seeing a lot of development- not just with Tyson, but with others as well. Our players have to be put in situations to succeed. By us doing the same things over and over, and expecting a different result is lunacy. Where we are right now is unacceptable at The University of North Carolina. I will always root and support The Heels, but missing out on the NCAA Tournament any year, is unacceptable. I look forward to seeing the rest of the season play out, and wish our players and staff well. As always, Go Heels!

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

^ Excellent observations and comments, peeps. We started digging a biiiiiiig hole for ourselves
yesterday by not defending well in critical moments. It hurt that Jackson had little to zero mojo on the floor,
that Stanford was repeatedly shuffling their puppies but got called on it only once, that Cade’s
presence serves no purpose on the floor (this really hurts🤨), and that an ex-dookie hit the game winner.

Time for some serious soul searching in a players only locker room before we start circling the drain.
We may not be a great team, but we are better than what we saw yesterday.

 

[gkss]

^ Excellent observations and comments, peeps. We started digging a biiiiiiig hole for ourselves
yesterday by not defending well in critical moments. It hurt that Jackson had little to zero mojo on the floor,
that Stanford was repeatedly shuffling their puppies but got called on it only once, that Cade’s
presence serves no purpose on the floor (this really hurts🤨), and that an ex-dookie hit the game winner.

Time for some serious soul searching in a players only locker room before we start circling the drain.
We may not be a great team, but we are better than what we saw yesterday.

Well said.

 

[gkss]

We might have lost the double bye in the ACCT with this loss.

Can't afford to lose at Wake on Tuesday, but they haven't lost at home yet this year. Then again, they haven't played anyone good at home yet.

I wonder does Hubert decline the NIT this year…

Let’s hope it doesn’t get to this point, but without a quick turnaround, it’s where we’re headed.

 

[Kool1234567]

We might have lost the double bye in the ACCT with this loss.

Can't afford to lose at Wake on Tuesday, but they haven't lost at home yet this year. Then again, they haven't played anyone good at home yet.

They beat Stanford by 13 points a few days ago…Looking at the schedule ahead this season could get away from this group real quick…

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

They beat Stanford by 13 points a few days ago…Looking at the schedule ahead this season could get away from this group real quick…

Agreed. We have to play Duke and Pitt twice and Wake, Clemson and FSU on the road.

Although we beat SMU, they could be the team that edges us out of that double-bye. They don't have to play Duke at all and only face Louisville, Pitt, Clemson and Wake on their home court.

 

[dtodd4475]

Terrible loss, and the final defensive strategy was awful. Beat for the umpteenth time on an inbound play. Ya gotta know they want Blakes going downhill if possible for the final attempt. He lines up as the inbounded ( most dangerous guy is the inbounder is the old basketball adage), you cannot be caught flat footed when assigned to him and allow the simple give and go to create a full speed ahead, clear sailing catch and go up court.

As for the rest of the game to that point, RJ and Lubin played well, the rest either meh or downright bad. RJ distributed well in the 1st half, Lubin banged and was active with his limited size and skill set.

Elliot got his customary foul issue and had to sit, Cap Jack couldn't throw it in a lake if he was standing on the pier. Seth was meh, just a meh, C type performance, not bad, not really good, JWash some brain fart fouls and confidence still an issue, and for Cade's sake it's safer for him on the bench, he was almost ended on that poster dunk, just bodied on the lob pass, and went right through by a guard on the other fast break. Would of liked to of seen more Drake.

Down the stretch I thought we took entirely too long to get set and moving agaist their man, bogging things down when we had some momentum. Their extended pressure up top 1-3-1 zone was easy to get good looks on, but we managed to miss some. RJ's simple odd/even return pass turnover up top against the 1-3-1 was a killer, just a killer at that time and can't happen.

Stanford is not a good team who was at the end of an NBA like road trip cross country, you just cannot excuse losing this one. Terrible loss!!!

 

[gary-7]

Well said. Terrible execution defensively on the game winner. They’re running full speed, including the ex Dukie, and we are back peddling. No way he should have been allowed to get downhill like that without stopping the dribble, or some alteration. Seth was out of position on his hip and with a bump and stop the shooter had an open look. I have been very patient with our coaching staff, but my patience is running thin. I know there is disagreement regarding Tyson, but I think that an important role of coaching is player development. I’m not seeing a lot of development- not just with Tyson, but with others as well. Our players have to be put in situations to succeed. By us doing the same things over and over, and expecting a different result is lunacy. Where we are right now is unacceptable at The University of North Carolina. I will always root and support The Heels, but missing out on the NCAA Tournament any year, is unacceptable. I look forward to seeing the rest of the season play out, and wish our players and staff well. As always, Go Heels!

Well stated and fair.

 

[gary-7]

Thanks G- good summation. The thing that really bothers me is the Heels were content to play Stanfords game. Slow, methodical, and taking advantage of their size. I just don’t get running the same defensive look at them 99% of their possessions. Change the dang look up from time to time. We just weren’t disruptive enough defensively. They got what they wanted when they needed it. Big teams are real trouble…

Yep. That part is so damned obvious, and extremely frustrating because it is so easily fixed.
I mean, Roy could be stubborn but good grief, nothing like this.

And speaking of stubborn, there wasn't a single player on Stanford's roster that could anywhere nearly stay in front of EC, yet what do we default to? And I don't want to hear about foul trouble, EC not playing 30+ in this game was malpractice.

 

[montana_heel]

Don't know if anyone saw the one out of bounds play. The guys backed up to the elbow and then just cut to the basket for a wide open layup. BALL..YOU..MAN.

Scored 3 buckets on the same exact out of bounds play. Maybe the coaching staff should copy that one if it is do good.

We have skill but not big enough a$$es in my opinion that love get up 6 and then push it to twelve to take your will away. Don't know if that is something that can be taught. I do know you can watch an inferior team gain confidence if you don't put them away by the time there 10 minutes left in the game. You now are getting their very best effort and execution.

This is the 2nd year that I have been recording the game amd watching it when I have time. Been a fan for forty years and spent way to much time finding streams on the internet to watch the heels and scheduling my life around the games for 4 months if the year. I hardly recognize Carolina basketball. It is missing what used to be basic components of our play. I think that bothers me more than mediocre play.

Sorry for the length, didn't mean to go Dsouthr on you. (LOL couldn't resist D)

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

Yep. That part is so damned obvious, and extremely frustrating because it is so easily fixed.
I mean, Roy could be stubborn but good grief, nothing like this.

And speaking of stubborn, there wasn't a single player on Stanford's roster that could anywhere nearly stay in front of EC, yet what do we default to? And I don't want to hear about foul trouble, EC not playing 30+ in this game was malpractice.

I could not agree more. Almost every time Elliot drove to the glass we benefited with points, foul shots, assists, and positive opportunities. Not every time, but mostly. He has to be on the floor for this team to win.
Opponents breathe a sigh of relief when he sits down. I understand that he hurts himself with real fouls, but sometimes he gets whistled for nothing more, nothing less than the same things every other guard in D 1 hoops does.
At this juncture of the season, he is indispensable and needs 30+ minutes, minimum. Period.

 

[Hoops244]

We might have lost the double bye in the ACCT with this loss.

Can't afford to lose at Wake on Tuesday, but they haven't lost at home yet this year. Then again, they haven't played anyone good at home yet.

That won’t change Tuesday.

 

[DSouthr]

Don't know if anyone saw the one out of bounds play. The guys backed up to the elbow and then just cut to the basket for a wide open layup. BALL..YOU..MAN.

Scored 3 buckets on the same exact out of bounds play. Maybe the coaching staff should copy that one if it is do good.

We have skill but not big enough a$$es in my opinion that love get up 6 and then push it to twelve to take your will away. Don't know if that is something that can be taught. I do know you can watch an inferior team gain confidence if you don't put them away by the time there 10 minutes left in the game. You now are getting their very best effort and execution.

This is the 2nd year that I have been recording the game amd watching it when I have time. Been a fan for forty years and spent way to much time finding streams on the internet to watch the heels and scheduling my life around the games for 4 months if the year. I hardly recognize Carolina basketball. It is missing what used to be basic components of our play. I think that bothers me more than mediocre play.

Sorry for the length, didn't mean to go Dsouthr on you. (LOL couldn't resist D)

No problem at all Montana, I needed the smile you gave me on that one. I sure don't have a smile thinking about that game yesterday, total and complete embarrassment...

 

[Kool1234567]

Yep. That part is so damned obvious, and extremely frustrating because it is so easily fixed.
I mean, Roy could be stubborn but good grief, nothing like this.

And speaking of stubborn, there wasn't a single player on Stanford's roster that could anywhere nearly stay in front of EC, yet what do we default to? And I don't want to hear about foul trouble, EC not playing 30+ in this game was malpractice.

Let’s be real the Program needs a complete overhaul…I don’t know if it’s true but someone said said we finished the game yesterday with this lineup…

EC-5’11
RJ-5’10
Seth-6’3
Ian-6’3
Lubin-6’7

You can’t win with that…Fact is this is all on Hubert….Just a poorly constructed Roster…I could really see this coming off the rails now….Hell we have enough problems beating Wake in Winston Salem when we have good teams…

Just very concerned now….Also moving forward I don’t know if it’s a good idea to take guys from non P4 programs…Cade looks like a deer in headlights…

 

[gary-7]

Don't know if anyone saw the one out of bounds play. The guys backed up to the elbow and then just cut to the basket for a wide open layup. BALL..YOU..MAN.

Scored 3 buckets on the same exact out of bounds play. Maybe the coaching staff should copy that one if it is do good.

We have skill but not big enough a$$es in my opinion that love get up 6 and then push it to twelve to take your will away. Don't know if that is something that can be taught. I do know you can watch an inferior team gain confidence if you don't put them away by the time there 10 minutes left in the game. You now are getting their very best effort and execution.

This is the 2nd year that I have been recording the game amd watching it when I have time. Been a fan for forty years and spent way to much time finding streams on the internet to watch the heels and scheduling my life around the games for 4 months if the year. I hardly recognize Carolina basketball. It is missing what used to be basic components of our play. I think that bothers me more than mediocre play.

Sorry for the length, didn't mean to go Dsouthr on you. (LOL couldn't resist D)

Hey, that was perfectly appropriate length --- every point was nail-on-head.
And yes, allowing that OB action made me glad I'm not coaching anymore --- if my guys had let that happen more than once I might've had to retire on the spot just to preserve my sanity.

 

[trimbornunc86]

It’s so hard for me as a fan to figure out what to root for the rest of the year. As much as I hate hate to say it, best thing is for this team to complete fall apart and miss the tournament. I feel like that’s going to be the only possible way the heels move on from HD… last thing we want is for them scratch their way in get to possible second weekend and then it buys HD another year… also what effect would a Caleb Wilson commitment have on any coaching decisions next year? With the thought being if he does commit to UNC and they move on from HD you would think he would re open the recruitment….

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

what effect would a Caleb Wilson commitment have on any coaching decisions next year? With the thought being if he does commit to UNC and they move on from HD you would think he would re open the recruitment….

I don't know how hard it is to reopen recruitment. Should we worry about Denis and Dixon?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

That won’t change Tuesday.

A loss could put the nail in the coffin. A win could start a run to the championship.

Here's a glance at our conference record after 7 games since the beginning of the Marcus Paige era. A slow start doesn't necessarily mean disaster - but a good start always gets us to the 2nd weekend or beyond in the NCAAT.

Year	ACC Record (7 games)	NCAA Tournament
2014	3-4	1-1
2015	6-1	2-1
2016	7-0	5-1
2017	6-1	6-0
2018	5-2	1-1
2019	6-1	2-1
2020	1-6	no postseason
2021	4-3	0-1
2022	4-3	5-1
2023	4-3	not invited
2024	7-0	2-1
2025	5-2	tbd

 

[NathanFielder]

It’s so hard for me as a fan to figure out what to root for the rest of the year. As much as I hate hate to say it, best thing is for this team to complete fall apart and miss the tournament. I feel like that’s going to be the only possible way the heels move on from HD… last thing we want is for them scratch their way in get to possible second weekend and then it buys HD another year… also what effect would a Caleb Wilson commitment have on any coaching decisions next year? With the thought being if he does commit to UNC and they move on from HD you would think he would re open the recruitment….

I think the correct answer is either way you want it to be clear as day whether a coaching change will be needed or not. I was criticized here pretty significantly before last year when this sort of question came up with Hubert. I simply said it's better to be absolutely terrible because that makes it easier to rip off the bandaid. Clearly UNC wasn't terrible last year but I don't think there was a definitive answer provided last year that Hubert is some awesome coach who can grow into this position and become something that's sustainable with high level teams every year.

So either way, the answer is you want clarity. If clarity means UNC goes winless the remainder of the season, I would prefer that over this team sneaking into the tournament, maybe winning an 8/9 or 7/10 game and for many people it still being up in the air whether Hubert is the right person for this job in the long term. If clarity means UNC wins out in the regular season and makes it to the Final Four and it's clear that Hubert is the right person for the long term, then that's what I prefer. Clear and obvious is the main thing IMO.

I don't want it to be a "Hubert buys himself another year." That's just a short-sided view and a view that this program has had almost 0 experience operating under.

Also, you're hiring the next coach thinking 5-10 years down the line. I don't care if Caleb Wilson doesn't play at UNC if that means UNC gets a significant upgrade at HC.

 

[NathanFielder]

A loss could put the nail in the coffin. A win could start a run to the championship.

Here's a glance at our conference record after 7 games since the beginning of the Marcus Paige era. A slow start doesn't necessarily mean disaster - but a good start always gets us to the 2nd weekend or beyond in the NCAAT.

Year	ACC Record (7 games)	NCAA Tournament
2014	3-4	1-1
2015	6-1	2-1
2016	7-0	5-1
2017	6-1	6-0
2018	5-2	1-1
2019	6-1	2-1
2020	1-6	no postseason
2021	4-3	0-1
2022	4-3	5-1
2023	4-3	not invited
2024	7-0	2-1
2025	5-2	tbd

It isn't the next game that will determine the longevity of this season. The 4 game stretch @ Pitt/ @ Duke/ vs Pitt/ @ Clemson will determine things much more than a game at Wake.

I'm not going to pre-determine any games with this team either. They had chances to beat several top 10 teams. They've had chances to lose to several bad teams. It's impossible to predict which UNC team you'll see minute to minute, let alone game to game.