Quick stuff (UCLA game)...

[gary-7]

...and it doesn't have to be this hard.

It really doesn't... but I'll save that for later below. I'll start with how we managed to pull it out:

- despite a couple of frustrating sequences, we out-rebouned them by 6, as there were better efforts at boxing out today

- we actually scrambled fairly often and (mostly) effectively. We had a couple of shaky rotations (and a DA foul by Withers in 32), but UCLA (as with many teams) did not react well to pressure. We utilized 30, 40 and even 50 once, with full, 3/4 and half pickups. We could stand to use even more, and even earlier, to get the juices flowing

- It took a comeback (yet again), as our cacaphony of offensive ineptitutde and defensive wtf-moments not only got us off to another slow start but then ballooned into a 16 point deficit. After being on the verge of being on the wrong end of a blowout, the turnaround started by (being blunt) getting RJ off of the Point, turning up the D and attacking the rim. BTW, a lineup during that sequence of EC/Ian/Seth/Cade/Wash was +7 during a key 2-minute stretch of that flurry

- speaking of attacking the rim, when we actually did that, it also got #34 in foul trouble --- and that was a good thing, considering Lubin and Claude couldn't seem to figure out that it wasn't a good idea to lay back and let him shoot 3s

- We know what Ian is right now --- a cold-blooded scorer. I mean, being real, he's seldom seen a shot he won't take --- and we need that coinfidence --- but he's also seldom seen an easy pass he'll actually make, and (yikes) he's still lost in team-D, but he brought the points today and that is his role.

- Defense in general made a needed appearance down the stretch. Huge plays by Seth and Withers, and JWash (despite the zebras suddenly getting touchy) held his ground and also stoned #34 on a key possession --- and when Cronin decided to go iso on their last possession, EC played it strong and got the winning stop vs a bigger opponent.

- It may not show up in today's scorebook, but Cade does some really nice things away from the ball, and he's damn good in help-D

- credit to RJ for returning after jamming his thumb and being part of that attacking thing down the stretch

- Speaking of RJ --- arrrghhh, f***ing Roger Ayers (who seems to follow us every time we play a "physical" opponent) damn near cost us this game. Y'all saw it --- after RJ got (properly) called for an obvious offensive foul, he made up for it by stepping in on Help and perfectly drawing a textbook charge on the other end --- well, EXCEPT that Roger (who had characteristically swallowed his whistle all night, leaving his colleagues to call Cronin's mayhem-ball) made the worst block call I've seen in years --- one that flipped the scoreboard (and woulda been easily overturned with the NBA appeal rule).

But again, it shouldn't have come down to individual calls or plays --- it simply shouldn't have been this hard. I'll illustrate with a couple of "moments":

- First moment: With 7:44 to go in the 1st half, we made an actual, legit ENTRY PASS to the post (they DO exist!!!) --- EC to Lubin --- and we drew a foul. Unfortunately, that would be the LAST of the game.
- Second moment: Down 14 with 10:12 to go in the game, Powell knocks down a 3 from the top on a VERTICAL kick-out from the paint --- the easist catch-and-shoot there is, which comes from INSIDE-OUT action. Thing is though, the Assist came from Eliot who had driven from the wing into the lane. OK, that's fine, except that we didn't get any of those from our Bigs. See where I'm going with this? They gotta get the damn rock --- to score, draw fouls and set up catch-and-shoot kick-outs --- in other words, to STRESS THE RIM.

- Look, our down-hill drive actions by our perimeter guys is a fine part of an offense, BUT that cannot be the totallity of our paint game. This is not much of an exaggeration --- if I took my coach's whiteboard with the little court on it, I could damn near diagram our offense by taking my marker and starting in the coach's box on one sidelne and drawing a slight arc outside of the 3 line to the opposite sideline, and do it back and forth. Putting it in football terms, we're doing way too much "East-West" and not nearly enough "North-South". We pulled out the game by getting North-South. So... howz about doing that with the entry PASS too?

- In other words, we are EASY to scout. Opponents mirror our actions and just push us further out to start our offense. Again, y'all had to see this --- I mean, when your dadgummed 5 man is sprinting almost to the half-court line to set a ball-screen, something ain't working. Hell, if they run a double to the Point (as teams often do with RJ) just make the pass to the flash high post instead and you'll have a de facto 4-on-3 break!

Anyway, look, I don't want to down-play a gritty must win. It's just that this shouldn't have been a "must-win". We have our strengths and weaknesses, but our roster is better than UCLA. Fact is, we're mostly better than everyone we've played (with the exception of Auburn) even in this brutal schedule. The staff needs to take a good look at the film and get back to what every one of them was taught as players --- that backetball is Applied Geometry and best played INSIDE-OUT --- and come back out of the gate after Xmas with something everyone can buy in to. We made a nice first step with being more mutilple on D --- now let's rediscover our Post game to complement and take the pressure off our dynamic Guards...

 

[RP12]

I asked this on the other thread but does Hubert take advice from the staff? He strikes me as all coaching cliche and no coaching strategy, which may not be fair. But I’m sure of much of the staff’s chops and can only conclude that he doesn’t allow their contributions to be put into practice. Feels to me like a lack of clarity is a big factor in our slow starts, and weirdly desperation leads the team and staff to make some of the adjustments that can allow this group to thrive.

 

[JovialMuse]

...and it doesn't have to be this hard.

It really doesn't... but I'll save that for later below. I'll start with how we managed to pull it out:

- despite a couple of frustrating sequences, we out-rebouned them by 6, as there were better efforts at boxing out today

- we actually scrambled fairly often and (mostly) effectively. We had a couple of shaky rotations (and a DA foul by Withers in 32), but UCLA (as with many teams) did not react well to pressure. We utilized 30, 40 and even 50 once, with full, 3/4 and half pickups. We could stand to use even more, and even earlier, to get the juices flowing

- It took a comeback (yet again), as our cacaphony of offensive ineptitutde and defensive wtf-moments not only got us off to another slow start but then ballooned into a 16 point deficit. After being on the verge of being on the wrong end of a blowout, the turnaround started by (being blunt) getting RJ off of the Point, turning up the D and attacking the rim. BTW, a lineup during that sequence of EC/Ian/Seth/Cade/Wash was +7 during a key 2-minute stretch of that flurry

- speaking of attacking the rim, when we actually did that, it also got #34 in foul trouble --- and that was a good thing, considering Lubin and Claude couldn't seem to figure out that it wasn't a good idea to lay back and let him shoot 3s

- We know what Ian is right now --- a cold-blooded scorer. I mean, being real, he's seldom seen a shot he won't take --- and we need that coinfidence --- but he's also seldom seen an easy pass he'll actually make, and (yikes) he's still lost in team-D, but he brought the points today and that is his role.

- Defense in general made a needed appearance down the stretch. Huge plays by Seth and Withers, and JWash (despite the zebras suddenly getting touchy) held his ground and also stoned #34 on a key possession --- and when Cronin decided to go iso on their last possession, EC played it strong and got the winning stop vs a bigger opponent.

- It may not schow up in today's scorebook, but Cade does some really nice things away from the ball, and he's damn good in help-D

- credit to RJ for returning after jamming his thumb and being part of that attacking thing down the stretch

- Speaking of RJ --- arrrghhh, f***ing Roger Ayers (who seems to follow us every time we play a "physical" opponent) damn near cost us this game. Y'all saw it --- after RJ got (properly) called for an obvious offensive foul, he made up for it by stepping in on Help and perfectly drawing a textbook charge on the other end --- well, EXCEPT that Roger (who had characteristically swallowed his whistle all night, leaving his colleagues to call Cronin's mayhem-ball) made the worst block call I've seen in years --- one that flipped the scoreboard (and woulda been easily overturned with the NBA appeal rule).

But again, it shouldn't have come down to individual calls or plays --- it simply shouldn't have been this hard. I'll illustrate with a couple of "moments":

- First moment: With 7:44 to go in the 1st half, we made an actual, legit ENTRY PASS to the post (they DO exist!!!) --- EC to Lubin --- and we drew a foul. Unfortunately, that would be the LAST of the game.
- Second moment: Down 14 with 10:12 to go in the game, Powell knocks down a 3 from the top on a VERTICAL kick-out from the paint --- the easist catch-and-shoot there is, which comes from INSIDE-OUT action. Thing is though, the Assist came from Eliot who had driven from the wing into the lane. OK, that's fine, except that we didn't get any of those from our Bigs. See where I'm going with this? They gotta get the damn rock --- to score, draw fouls and set up catch-and-shoot kick-outs --- in other words, to STRESS THE RIM.

- Look, our down-hill drive actions by our perimeter guys is a fine part of an offense, BUT that cannot be the totallity of our paint game. This is not much of an exaggeration --- if I took my coach's whiteboard with the little court on it, I could damn near diagram our offense by taking my marker and starting in the coach's box on one sidelne and drawing a slight arc outside of the 3 line to the opposite sideline, and do it back and forth. Putting it in football terms, we're doing way too much "East-West" and not nearly enough "North-South". We pulled out the game by getting North-South. So... howz about doing that with the entry PASS too?

- In other words, we are EASY to scout. Opponents mirror our actions and just push us further out to start our offense. Again, y'all had to see this --- I mean, when your dadgummed 5 man is sprinting almost to the half-court line to set a ball-screen, something ain't working. Hell, if they run a double to the Point (as teams often do with RJ) just make the pass to the flash high post instead and you'll have a de facto 4-on-3 break!

Anyway, look, I don't want to down-play a gritty must win. It's just that this shouldn't have been a "must-win". We have our strengths and weaknesses, but our roster is better than UCLA. Fact is, we're mostly better than everyone we've played (with the exception of Auburn) even in this brutal schedule. The staff needs to take a good look at the film and get back to what every one of them was taught as players --- that backetball is Applied Geometry and best played INSIDE-OUT --- and come back out of the gate after Xmas with something everyone can buy in to. We made a nice first step with being more mutilple on D --- now let's rediscover our Post game to complement and take the pressure off our dynamic Guards...

Thanks as always for the analysis. I'm so happy they got the win and am excited to see Ian growing into a really special player. But why do you think the team is making it this hard? Is the staff not emphasizing the post? Are the players not executing? It's mind boggling to me that our entire staff are Carolina guys that don't seem to want to play traditional Carolina basketball. I get Hubert and staff perhaps wanting to put their own modern/nba stamp on it... Fine don't play 2 traditional bigs but we can execute post entries more than 3 times a game, right? And what on earth is going on with EC? It's a different team from last season, I get that, but he seems to have regressed. Not sure if the regression is more him or a reflection of the team woes but man. Or maybe some personal stuff. Really hope we get him back on the right track again.

 

[gkss]

...and it doesn't have to be this hard.

It really doesn't... but I'll save that for later below. I'll start with how we managed to pull it out:

- despite a couple of frustrating sequences, we out-rebouned them by 6, as there were better efforts at boxing out today

- we actually scrambled fairly often and (mostly) effectively. We had a couple of shaky rotations (and a DA foul by Withers in 32), but UCLA (as with many teams) did not react well to pressure. We utilized 30, 40 and even 50 once, with full, 3/4 and half pickups. We could stand to use even more, and even earlier, to get the juices flowing

- It took a comeback (yet again), as our cacaphony of offensive ineptitutde and defensive wtf-moments not only got us off to another slow start but then ballooned into a 16 point deficit. After being on the verge of being on the wrong end of a blowout, the turnaround started by (being blunt) getting RJ off of the Point, turning up the D and attacking the rim. BTW, a lineup during that sequence of EC/Ian/Seth/Cade/Wash was +7 during a key 2-minute stretch of that flurry

- speaking of attacking the rim, when we actually did that, it also got #34 in foul trouble --- and that was a good thing, considering Lubin and Claude couldn't seem to figure out that it wasn't a good idea to lay back and let him shoot 3s

- We know what Ian is right now --- a cold-blooded scorer. I mean, being real, he's seldom seen a shot he won't take --- and we need that coinfidence --- but he's also seldom seen an easy pass he'll actually make, and (yikes) he's still lost in team-D, but he brought the points today and that is his role.

- Defense in general made a needed appearance down the stretch. Huge plays by Seth and Withers, and JWash (despite the zebras suddenly getting touchy) held his ground and also stoned #34 on a key possession --- and when Cronin decided to go iso on their last possession, EC played it strong and got the winning stop vs a bigger opponent.

- It may not schow up in today's scorebook, but Cade does some really nice things away from the ball, and he's damn good in help-D

- credit to RJ for returning after jamming his thumb and being part of that attacking thing down the stretch

- Speaking of RJ --- arrrghhh, f***ing Roger Ayers (who seems to follow us every time we play a "physical" opponent) damn near cost us this game. Y'all saw it --- after RJ got (properly) called for an obvious offensive foul, he made up for it by stepping in on Help and perfectly drawing a textbook charge on the other end --- well, EXCEPT that Roger (who had characteristically swallowed his whistle all night, leaving his colleagues to call Cronin's mayhem-ball) made the worst block call I've seen in years --- one that flipped the scoreboard (and woulda been easily overturned with the NBA appeal rule).

But again, it shouldn't have come down to individual calls or plays --- it simply shouldn't have been this hard. I'll illustrate with a couple of "moments":

- First moment: With 7:44 to go in the 1st half, we made an actual, legit ENTRY PASS to the post (they DO exist!!!) --- EC to Lubin --- and we drew a foul. Unfortunately, that would be the LAST of the game.
- Second moment: Down 14 with 10:12 to go in the game, Powell knocks down a 3 from the top on a VERTICAL kick-out from the paint --- the easist catch-and-shoot there is, which comes from INSIDE-OUT action. Thing is though, the Assist came from Eliot who had driven from the wing into the lane. OK, that's fine, except that we didn't get any of those from our Bigs. See where I'm going with this? They gotta get the damn rock --- to score, draw fouls and set up catch-and-shoot kick-outs --- in other words, to STRESS THE RIM.

- Look, our down-hill drive actions by our perimeter guys is a fine part of an offense, BUT that cannot be the totallity of our paint game. This is not much of an exaggeration --- if I took my coach's whiteboard with the little court on it, I could damn near diagram our offense by taking my marker and starting in the coach's box on one sidelne and drawing a slight arc outside of the 3 line to the opposite sideline, and do it back and forth. Putting it in football terms, we're doing way too much "East-West" and not nearly enough "North-South". We pulled out the game by getting North-South. So... howz about doing that with the entry PASS too?

- In other words, we are EASY to scout. Opponents mirror our actions and just push us further out to start our offense. Again, y'all had to see this --- I mean, when your dadgummed 5 man is sprinting almost to the half-court line to set a ball-screen, something ain't working. Hell, if they run a double to the Point (as teams often do with RJ) just make the pass to the flash high post instead and you'll have a de facto 4-on-3 break!

Anyway, look, I don't want to down-play a gritty must win. It's just that this shouldn't have been a "must-win". We have our strengths and weaknesses, but our roster is better than UCLA. Fact is, we're mostly better than everyone we've played (with the exception of Auburn) even in this brutal schedule. The staff needs to take a good look at the film and get back to what every one of them was taught as players --- that backetball is Applied Geometry and best played INSIDE-OUT --- and come back out of the gate after Xmas with something everyone can buy in to. We made a nice first step with being more mutilple on D --- now let's rediscover our Post game to complement and take the pressure off our dynamic Guards...

Thanks for the insight and analysis gary-7. I agree with everything. We have no choice but to figure out an emphasis on an inside outside offense. Too many turnovers today. I’m glad UCLA struggled at the line too. I’m happy to see us execute in the last 4 minutes. Man you are right with that east/ west mess! I want to see more of Jackson too! As always, Go Heels!

 

[gary-7]

Thanks as always for the analysis. I'm so happy they got the win and am excited to see Ian growing into a really special player. But why do you think the team is making it this hard? Is the staff not emphasizing the post? Are the players not executing? It's mind boggling to me that our entire staff are Carolina guys that don't seem to want to play traditional Carolina basketball. I get Hubert and staff perhaps wanting to put their own modern/nba stamp on it... Fine don't play 2 traditional bigs but we can execute post entries more than 3 times a game, right? And what on earth is going on with EC? It's a different team from last season, I get that, but he seems to have regressed. Not sure if the regression is more him or a reflection of the team woes but man. Or maybe some personal stuff. Really hope we get him back on the right track again.

My friend, you just posed the million-dollar question, but this is in no way on EC. Without him we don;t stand an iota of a chance today. He is being asked to create in a scheme that gets shut down easily. Opponents are overplaying lateral kickouts because that's what this offense resorts to.

 

[montana_heel]

I totally agree with going inside at least as a threat.

The other thing that you don't mention is we have a point guard with a turnover problem. Granted not having an inside presence doesn't help but I am dumbfounded by some of the stuff he does to get turnovers. Hubert needs to introduce him to the KISS method.

I have waited for Jalen to click and I have to admit how wrong I was about him. Shocks me that he can have so little confidence. Not sure our guards would know how to feed a post if we had one anyway. This is not enjoyable basketball to watch to me. I like the process of progressing throughout the year and still holding out hope to see that.

Been a fan for 45 years and 8-20 is the only other time I felt like this.

 

[gary-7]

I totally agree with going inside at least as a threat.

The other thing that you don't mention is we have a point guard with a turnover problem. Granted not having an inside presence doesn't help but I am dumbfounded by some of the stuff he does to get turnovers. Hubert needs to introduce him to the KISS method.

I have waited for Jalen to click and I have to admit how wrong I was about him. Shocks me that he can have so little confidence. Not sure our guards would know how to feed a post if we had one anyway. This is not enjoyable basketball to watch to me. I like the process of progressing throughout the year and still holding out hope to see that.

Been a fan for 45 years and 8-20 is the only other time I felt like this.

That's not what it's about. It's about scheme. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[alabamaheel]

Great outcome finally. Just finished watching after getting into Asheville late for Christmas with some family. Man our two freshmen saved our neck. When RJ went out in the first half those two held us up. EC with three quick tos. Seth was non existent until RJ went out with the thumb. He showed up and finished strong. That set rolled pretty good as Gary mentioned. I have to say, at the last push with EC, RJ, Seth, Ian, and wash in there my thoughts were put Powell in the post lol. And the more I pondered, especially after two stupid j wash fouls, it really makes sense. Crazy small but literally the most talented group that must be guarded on offense. It looked so open for us. I do miss Bacot.
EC with a perfect and I mean perfect last defensive stance!!! Good win that helps in the long run. Didn’t realize that all the teams that’s beaten us have a combined 7 losses. Wow
Edit to add, I’ve never been really hard on just one individual player but I don’t know why withers gets pt. I’ve wanted to pull for him and have even taken up for him but dang it’s tough to watch. Makes me mad. All that size and athleticism but that’s it. I feel bad for him.

 

[sdingeldein]

It appears to me that no one on the team, including the coaches, have any confidence in the inside players and that is the reason for the lack of inside/out and over-reliance on dribble penetration by the guards. We did lotsa inside/out when we had Bacot . . . so it doesn't appear to be a coaching philosophy issue.

 

[montana_heel]

That's not what it's about. It's about scheme. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't buy it. Just like Hubert can't make the shot for them, he can't force them to make the simple pass either.

 

[dtodd4475]

Massive comeback win with quality win opportunities dwindling. This was as much a gift as a great comeback for me though. Certainly will take it, it was desperately needed.

Big fella foul issue and his struggles at the line, along with UCLA at the stripe in general coupled with bad turnovers while up left the door slightly ajar. Credit to us for sneaking through that opening though.

Looks like 3 headed split time big to try to defend other teams big/bigs since each are miserable at defending a legit big. Keep a fresh body at least on them. Glad we played another small ball lineup team, it helped on the glass, but they lobbed to the rim at will as well.

Ian and RJ can create, it's a shame we do not have a complimentary scorer, since they both are very similar in style of creating thier scoring opportunities.

Way too many turnovers on our part as well. Hopefully Cadeau gets his back under control.

Thank you for the early Christmas present UCLA, it is much appreciated!!!!

 

[Archer2]

I don't buy it. Just like Hubert can't make the shot for them, he can't force them to make the simple pass either.

I think you’re both right, it’s some of both. But our offense isn’t generating consistently good looks, we dribble incessantly around the perimeter and launch off balance treys faaaaaar to often. Couple that with mediocre rebounding and the result is predictable.

 

[Archer2]

⚠️ These numbers are depressing. Here is our current national rankings out of 355 teams.

Scoring Off. 19
Scoring Def. 326
Reb. Margin. 191
Def. Reb. 29
Off. Reb. 211
A/TO 151
FG% 104
FG% Def. 160

 

[DSouthr]

I want first to speak about the biggest 2 plays of this game, moves that without them we lose this game. The fact that they were defensive moves from our best defender and a guy many have come to doubt in recent days makes it even sweeter for me (not to mention that one came from my favorite player, LOL). You guys watched it, my neighbors surely heard about it, LOL, there was 22 seconds left in this game, we are down 2, RJ (our best free throw shooter) is fouled, has 2 free throws, I am thinking, hey maybe, RJ will drop them and we just have to defend the last 22sec for OT. But RJ misses the front end, hits the second, and there we were down 1, 22 sec left, their ball, we were sneaking in to need a miracle territory for us to pull this out. And then it happened, Seth comes off the guy he was guarding on the inbounds and both he and Drake double the guy that caught the inbound pass, AND Seth stripped him and in doing so the ball went off the UCLA players leg, our ball, play of the game, RJ cans a couple free throws and UCLA is down 1 with about 10sec left. Then, as if only 1 magic play was all we were going to get, flashing me instantly back to the Natty game where Marcus hit that amazing shot to tie the game, yet the kid from UConn hit a last split second trey to beat us, oh NO, please tell me that is not what I am getting ready to see... I went from Joy to terror.

They drive the ball and the primary defender has now had weeks of fans upset with his play, oh no, little tiny Cadeau is guarding the driver in front of a ref that hates us, about a 100% chance either the guy makes that driving lay up or Cadeau fouls him. Cadeau, badly out sized, it would take yet another Christmas miracle, may get 1 but no way we get 2. Yet no one told Cadeau, that kid put his body on the line, put every ounce of will he had in him, altered the shot and DID NOT FOUL!!!! Powell was fouled on the rebound, Powell goes to the other end for 2 shots and we are up 1 already with .1 seconds left. All Drake had to do to seal this totally up was miss the second free throw because with .1 seconds left there was no time to catch the rebound and shoot it, less than .3 requires a ball to be batted the entire length of the court facing the wrong direction, about a 1 in a couple billion chance of that happening, this game was over before Powell took those last free throws, and it is Christmas once again!

It is just one of those moments I will never forget, up there with Walter Davis hitting that mega jumper from about the NBA 3pt arch (who doesn't still recall the 7 magical seconds)in a time there was no 3 pt arch in college, MJ hitting that jumper in that Natty, a couple Caleb death blows to the dukies) and yes, that twisting trey from Marcus. I will never forget the ending of this one, the twin Christmas Miracle in Madison Square Garden, the mecca of basketball, on CBS, against another blue blood program in UCLA. Twin MIRACLES in MSG and BOTH were defensive moves, just amazing...

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Once our coaches discover a big who will cut or set up with strength and purpose; Put up the proper hand to demand the ball; and then consistently A. Drive to the hole without TOs (JWit); B. make a confident move with purpose (JWash); C, take/make the midrange, finish at the rim or force a foul (Claude); or D. make an on target/on time kick out (Lubin)-they will return to their preferred play style and we will see more inside/out the traditional way. I am glad they waited until our team could actually handle the scrambles and multiple Ds before trying them out! Even though they have been practiced constantly, we still see peeps lost in the sauce but getting better! Ian is becoming a real top of the scouting report problem on O and we he gets off the target list on D he will be special indeed! RJ is clearly the heart of this team, and I am so glad that warrior sucked it up and reentered that game at winning time! EC has awesome potential and will need to match it with increased maturity and poise to reach it! Teams know he isn't responding to physical play well and will continue to try to frustrate him. I love how he took a stand and decided that freakin bully would not beast him to steal our win! This is the sign he needs, and I hope it translates going forward!

Awesome win that cemented the fact that our team is one of the mentally/physically toughest around. We will always have to rebound as a team since we will be smaller than everyone we play. Simple things like passing up good to get great shots; taking care of the ball including forgetting about homerun plays; taking nothing but open shots flowing from the O AND taking them with confidence; finishing through contact and never expecting refs to save us; maximum focus on O and D; knowing your place and your rotations on D; and playing with joy-all will start us on the steep upward climb I am expecting! I pray we can put together two halves with maximum effort going forward and never even think about who gets to shine!

Great Win Family!

 

[gary-7]

It appears to me that no one on the team, including the coaches, have any confidence in the inside players and that is the reason for the lack of inside/out and over-reliance on dribble penetration by the guards. We did lotsa inside/out when we had Bacot . . . so it doesn't appear to be a coaching philosophy issue.

TBH, that would be a lazy approach from the staff if true. And hell, think about how much folks on here bitched about Mando the last couple seasons for not scoring enough on entries. But we still got inside-out action by getting him the rock, and that matters... a lot. And there's no good reason to not be utilizing entries and inside-out action now.

JWash, in particular has a remarkable offensive skillset ---sure, not as much strength on the block, but he has a 7'4 wingspan and a great shooting touch on an unblockable turnaround J. And last season he showed he could get physical at the rim. And Lubin can operate in the paint with his old-man post game. Either way, you have to threaten the rim, if for nothing else to get defenses off their perimeter push-outs and lateral pass-jumping (which is the source of most of out TOs these days).

Trouble is, Wash is only being used as a screener and handoff guy who's not even threatening the basket or looking for his shot. In other words, he's being pussified by this scheme. Honestly, other than the Secondary, that is the main thing that needs to get fixed over the break.

 

[DSouthr]

TBH, that would be a lazy approach from the staff if true. And hell, think about how much folks on here bitched about Mando the last couple seasons for not scoring enough on entries. But we still got inside-out action by getting him the rock, and that matters... a lot. And there's no good reason to not be utilizing entries and inside-out action now.

JWash, in particular has a remarkable offensive skillset ---sure, not as much strength on the block, but he has a 7'4 wingspan and a great shooting touch on an unblockable turnaround J. And last season he showed he could get physical at the rim. And Lubin can operate in the paint with his old-man post game. Either way, you have to threaten the rim, if for nothing else to get defenses off their perimeter push-outs and lateral pass-jumping (which is the source of most of out TOs these days).

Trouble is, Wash is only being used as a screener and handoff guy who's not even threatening the basket or looking for his shot. In other words, he's being pussified by this scheme. Honestly, other than the Secondary, that is the main thing that needs to get fixed over the break.

Yeah gary, that is exactly right, I don't know how many more ways I or you can explain this before folks begin to realize? You just can not use Jalen like we used Bacot, try to and we will lose, how many more times does that have to happen? The solution is NOT to take our longest big man and strand him on the bench. Jalen in his 12mins yesterday got 4 boards and 3pts, Drake led us in boards with a total of 5 and he played 24mins. In contrast, Lubin got 1 board 2pts in 11mins, Claude 2 boards and 0 pts in 13mins, JWit 2 boards and 2pts in 6mins, Tyson 2 boards and zero pts in 7mins, yet Jalen is the problem? Jalen also picked up 2 "fouls" that sure didn't look like fouls to me, he was trying to defend a bigger guy backing him down and all the sudden the refs decides now is the time to cal touch fouls? Anyway, not really the point, back to the point...

CLEARLY Jalen is not looking or working to get position for anything that nears a jump shot, he hasn't since that game in the islands where he missed 2 or 3 jumpers, has he even taken a jumper since? Ask why Jalen is NOT Taking jumpers, ask why the guy that Roy Williams called the best big man jump shooter in his class is not taking jump shots, he took more last season than he is now, why? Well considering that he did take some last season, actually led the team in 3pt % as well as % of made shots, now all the sudden he is a after thought?

I see a team wide effort to get Tyson shooting the ball confidently, you do realize that was a direct instruction from the bench for guys to look for situations to get Tyson clean looks and for him to find those spots and be ready to shoot it on the catch, excuse me while I ask why a similar effort has not been given for Jalen? Want to try to tell me that Hubert has told his guys to actively look for situation to get Jalen set for his mid range jumper and the players refuse to??? Hubert told them to get the Ball to Bacot and they did, told them to get it to Tyson in open spots for his jumper and they did, he isn't telling them to look for Jalen and they aren't. Not complicated actually. It is as if Hubert does not value mid range jump shots from his big men, Bacot didn't take them, and now Jalen isn't, JWitt take a lot of treys but few mid range.

This is a complete waste of a very talented player, taking him completely away from his strength of his game and forcing him to do what he is weakest at, Jalen is a face the basket big, he is not a physically strong or wide shoulders/butt guy, he is a heck of a stretch 4 if given the chance, that chance has NOT been given. This is a HUGE weapon that we simply are not using and it isn't as if this team could not well use another big time weapon. I liken this to not allowing Brady Manek to do anything but set screens and pulling him when he missed a jump shot. This is the worst coaching decision I have ever seen and it continues game after game after game? Makes no sense to me...

 

[Archer2]

Yeah gary, that is exactly right, I don't know how many more ways I or you can explain this before folks begin to realize? You just can not use Jalen like we used Bacot, try to and we will lose, how many more times does that have to happen? The solution is NOT to take our longest big man and strand him on the bench. Jalen in his 12mins yesterday got 4 boards and 3pts, Drake led us in boards with a total of 5 and he played 24mins. In contrast, Lubin got 1 board 2pts in 11mins, Claude 2 boards and 0 pts in 13mins, JWit 2 boards and 2pts in 6mins, Tyson 2 boards and zero pts in 7mins, yet Jalen is the problem? Jalen also picked up 2 "fouls" that sure didn't look like fouls to me, he was trying to defend a bigger guy backing him down and all the sudden the refs decides now is the time to cal touch fouls? Anyway, not really the point, back to the point...

CLEARLY Jalen is not looking or working to get position for anything that nears a jump shot, he hasn't since that game in the islands where he missed 2 or 3 jumpers, has he even taken a jumper since? Ask why Jalen is NOT Taking jumpers, ask why the guy that Roy Williams called the best big man jump shooter in his class is not taking jump shots, he took more last season than he is now, why? Well considering that he did take some last season, actually led the team in 3pt % as well as % of made shots, now all the sudden he is a after thought?

I see a team wide effort to get Tyson shooting the ball confidently, you do realize that was a direct instruction from the bench for guys to look for situations to get Tyson clean looks and for him to find those spots and be ready to shoot it on the catch, excuse me while I ask why a similar effort has not been given for Jalen? Want to try to tell me that Hubert has told his guys to actively look for situation to get Jalen set for his mid range jumper and the players refuse to??? Hubert told them to get the Ball to Bacot and they did, told them to get it to Tyson in open spots for his jumper and they did, he isn't telling them to look for Jalen and they aren't. Not complicated actually. It is as if Hubert does not value mid range jump shots from his big men, Bacot didn't take them, and now Jalen isn't, JWitt take a lot of treys but few mid range.

This is a complete waste of a very talented player, taking him completely away from his strength of his game and forcing him to do what he is weakest at, Jalen is a face the basket big, he is not a physically strong or wide shoulders/butt guy, he is a heck of a stretch 4 if given the chance, that chance has NOT been given. This is a HUGE weapon that we simply are not using and it isn't as if this team could not well use another big time weapon. I liken this to not allowing Brady Manek to do anything but set screens and pulling him when he missed a jump shot. This is the worst coaching decision I have ever seen and it continues game after game after game? Makes no sense to me...

Amen D. This reflects very poorly on the staff, Hubert in particular. Is he maximizing his players? A big no there. I can’t believe his abandonment of some of the most important Carolina principles. So sad.

 

[heels05champs]

You could make an argument that more players have regressed under Hubert than those that have clearly improved. Is that because they’re being used incorrectly or the staff simply fails to develop kids?

 

[DSouthr]

Amen D. This reflects very poorly on the staff, Hubert in particular. Is he maximizing his players? A big no there. I can’t believe his abandonment of some of the most important Carolina principles. So sad.

Know what is sad as well, did ya know Lubin actually has a really nice mid range jumper, you wouldn't by watching how he is having to play now. You would only know that by watching the kid play at Vandy last season. Stacks had no choice but to put him at the 5 and once Lubin had healed an injury ended the season scoring 15 or so a game, much of it from his mid range game that we now do not get to see?

There is this nonsense notion that comes from the NBA that the mid range jumper is a thing of the past and should not be used. As if every power forward in the game can shoot the ball like Durant, every center either camps for boards or shoots treys like Luka. This is the point that Nate just lives for, to stop me and share this player or that player doesn't, I could care less. That crap they can play in the NBA, you happen to have the best players on the planet, the NCAA game does NOT have that, teams are very fortunate to have 1 or 2 future big time NBA players on their college rosters. While in college ball guys like Hansbourgh and Joel Berry win NCAAT championships while the future NBA factories in Durham and Lexington Ky disappoint their fans annually. The NBA game is played differently from the NCAA game simply because of the difference in players ability. Just because I drive a chevy does not mean I am ready for NASCAR or could ever have that ability. To even try to compare the 2 is apples to watermelons.

But that NBA nonsense is sneaking in to the college game, seems as if Hubert does not feel it is possible to win a game without having his power forward stand out beyond the 3pt arch and pumping the occasional trey attempt? Now it is guards either shoot treys or drive to the rim, folks get upset with Seth when he passes up a trey and drives for a mid range? I say that and folks pull out their calculators and start pouring thru the hundreds of stats that are taken now days looking for proof that even a missed trey is better than a 2 from mid range? LOL Yeah, seems to be a LOT of fans that feel like they know more than Dean Smith did, when is their induction to the basketball hall of fame supposed to happen?

To watch game after game of Lubin being badly under sized for the 5 and not being able to use his mid range game to neutralize that, to watch Jalen not taking jump shots, to see Withers taking trey after trey is heart breaking. Really refreshing is to see Drake pass up a bad 3 trey and drive for his solid mid range jumper. It is so hard for me to watch our offense stand around for 15 seconds with little to no player movement and have to force something at the end of the shot clock. That is just NOT how the college game is played or better said not how it should be played but for some reason is. Makes it even harder when you just are not a great 3pt shooting team. When the ball goes in to the post and I would hope by now that at least most UNC fans would agree that it MUST go in to the post more than it has, that our guy in the post must have 3 options the defense has to account for, shoot it, drive it, or pass it. It simply can not be limited to just pass it all the time, it negates the reason you passed it in to the post to begin with?

Example, yesterday vs UCLA, their big man got white hot on us, why, because he took back to back trailing step in treys, the most easy trey in the game in my opinion on back to back trips in doing so we fell behind 6-2. What did Lubin, our starting center yesterday do on each of those, tip toed out, didn't fly out expecting the trey, tip toed looking to peel back at any second. Luibin was in no position to alter the shot or board a miss, he was in no man's land. It hasn't just been treys either, big men have done it to us all season from mid range all the way out to trey and we have a defender in no man's land every time. If you see this used against us effectively game film after game film at what point would you begin to feel that maybe we should do some of that same thing? Clearly that point has not yet arrived, I wonder if it will under Hubert?

 

[DSouthr]

Amen D. This reflects very poorly on the staff, Hubert in particular. Is he maximizing his players? A big no there. I can’t believe his abandonment of some of the most important Carolina principles. So sad.

Speaking of Hubert and this staff, I noticed a couple things yesterday that puzzled me. The first, think it was after a time out in the first half, the camera panned to Hubert saying something to Lebo, Hubert was standing bent over to the sitting Lebo and it struck me as if Hubert was really pissed at Lebo? They sure didn't seem top be wishing each other a Merry Christmas?

The second was in the second half at a critical point in the game, there was a time out and the camera panned to our bench and there was our p-layers and they seemed to be huddled around Lebo and not Hubert? It struck me as odd? Anyone else notice either of these 2, if so how did it strike you?

 

[gary-7]

CLEARLY Jalen is not looking or working to get position for anything that nears a jump shot, he hasn't since that game in the islands where he missed 2 or 3 jumpers, has he even taken a jumper since? Ask why Jalen is NOT Taking jumpers, ask why the guy that Roy Williams called the best big man jump shooter in his class is not taking jump shots, he took more last season than he is now, why? Well considering that he did take some last season, actually led the team in 3pt % as well as % of made shots, now all the sudden he is a after thought?

Yep. So frustrating.

Right now if you watch any given possession, although JWash may once in a while show in the post, the ball is usually nowhere to be found. When that does happen (with him or Lubin), I've watched our perimeter guys refuse to make the pass even when they can see his number. EC is the only Guard who even tries to make entries that are not drive-and-dishes, but a post-up when he has the ball is as rare as hen's teeth.

Funny, I watched the game without sound, but when I rewatched the condensed game on youtube today, I heard Raftery make almost the exact comment I made in the OP about the 7:44 Lubin entry being the first of the game.

The biggest reason there are no entry ops is simply our scheme. Our Bigs are running these arc screen actions or serving as hand-off guys in our sets, thus not getting the rock in any score-threat place unless it's a roll --- or in Freelance they get called to run 40 feet to half-court to set a damn ball-screen, i.e., tits-on-a-boar-hog.

 

[gary-7]

You could make an argument that more players have regressed under Hubert than those that have clearly improved. Is that because they’re being used incorrectly or the staff simply fails to develop kids?

It's not about the player, it's about their usage.

 

[gary-7]

Speaking of Hubert and this staff, I noticed a couple things yesterday that puzzled me. The first, think it was after a time out in the first half, the camera panned to Hubert saying something to Lebo, Hubert was standing bent over to the sitting Lebo and it struck me as if Hubert was really pissed at Lebo? They sure didn't seem top be wishing each other a Merry Christmas?

The second was in the second half at a critical point in the game, there was a time out and the camera panned to our bench and there was our p-layers and they seemed to be huddled around Lebo and not Hubert? It struck me as odd? Anyone else notice either of these 2, if so how did it strike you?

Well, in the first instance I think that was Pat that Hubert was venting to.
In the secong instance, Jeff will sometimes draw up a special play off a timeout (like he did with that Nance game-winner a couple of years ago).
With that said, one can be forgiven for wondering if there's staff unanimity as to our current approach....

 

[GoNtheDistance]

You could make an argument that more players have regressed under Hubert than those that have clearly improved. Is that because they’re being used incorrectly or the staff simply fails to develop kids?

this……

 

[DSouthr]

Well, in the first instance I think that was Pat that Hubert was venting to.
In the secong instance, Jeff will sometimes draw up a special play off a timeout (like he did with that Nance game-winner a couple of years ago).
With that said, one can be forgiven for wondering if there's staff unanimity as to our current approach....

The "hair cut" may have confused me LOLOLOL

 

[DSouthr]

this……

I would put it this way,ya know what happens when your big man runs the court hard but is not rewarded with the ball and flush, at some point he doesn't run the floor as much. Ya know what happens when a big man works his butt off to get position in the post and the ball doesn't show up, he stops working so hard for position, example Bacot last season early. Recall Caleb, what happened when the ball touch Caleb's hands with about 15 on the shot clock, the others looked for someone to block out because they knew Caleb was not giving it up. Why did Bacot so rarely pass it when he caught a pass in the post, because he knew if he gave it up there was no chance it was going back to him. When RJ is at the point and drives, passing the ball is his 3rd option and most of the time he never even considers his second option (a mid range floater).

 

[Archer2]

The last several assertions are spot on. I’m beginning to think that Hubert may not last past five years because next season’s recruiting is mediocre to date. Cue Hubert’s mom( @TPFKAPFS ) to come to his defense.

jk 😉

 

[gary-7]

The last several assertions are spot on. I’m beginning to think that Hubert may not last past five years because next season’s recruiting is mediocre to date. Cue Hubert’s mom( @TPFKAPFS ) to come to his defense.

jk 😉

What Hubert is doing now is a matter of choice as opposed to ability/knowledge. He is falling for a fad approach that is frankly ruining the damn NBA (as Charles Barkley recently went off on), and unless he gets back to the sounder approach that he played under here, sadly he may end up on a self-inflicted hot-seat.