I never like either the hire or the extension! I like most was a little hard on him before the run but now I'm starting to worry, again.
Lack of experience with egos and hardheaded kids I think if showing its face!
Quick stuff (VaTech game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
- Start date
Lack of experience with egos and hardheaded kids I think if showing its face!
I think it should be really clear to anyone that Nance has a lot of talent and I think can be very effective when used properly but he has slow feet, it is a quickness issue. As gary and 75 have offered there is no scenario where it is good for us to have him trying to guard a little guy 30" from the basket, don't want to see Bacot trying to do that either. I have zero idea why this hit either Bacot or Nance at the top of the key and have them drive the lane nonsense has been allowed to continue, it is a TO waiting to happen with them both, it is a open court live ball TO to many times and when it isn't I can already hear the charge call coming.
What I saw vs VT baffled me, I see Nance camped out well past the 3 pt line and we have zero board coverage and of course Love puts up one of those long hand in his face jumpers, they had 4 guys to the rebound and I didn't see a Tar Heel within 15' of the ball. Nance is standing around, doing NOTHING while the ball is being pounded in to the court with little purpose. While I do like the 5 out look, I do not like the isolation 5 out version (well actually 4 out with a driver). This is nonsense I would see at the local middle school black top court, maybe PE class but this is not college level basketball.
I have shared all along, Washington will in my opinion be a game changer for us, he is much more fluid and may be even longer than Nance. You put him in that high post and let him square and shoot, you put him in the short corner and take the back door opps. He has better feet and he is quicker than nance. Puff struggled some vs VT but I still think he is a better guy for the 4 than Nance. Nance is a 5 that does not have much bulk and slow feet and just is not real physical, but he is really skilled. He is a solid shooter with range beyond the 3pt arch or mid range when he has the time, I do like how he uses the back board on a lot of his mid range stuff, really good at that.
While I do get tired of folks bringing up Manek as compared to Nance, the major difference in the 2 is that Brady did his work early where Nance does his late. For example when manek caught the ball outside, he knew what he was going to do BEFORE the ball touched his hands. He had already checked to see if he had a good passing angle to a big man in the paint that was in great position to finish, he knew how far his defender was from him, he knew if that defender coming at him was hands up or hands down, and he knew if we had any board coverage, he knew where his feet were in respect to the 3pt line, as well as where we were on the shot clock. Because of that when the ball touched his hands he was in to his shooting motion with no hesitation (FYI, what is a quick trigger, it is going in to your shooting motion as soon as the ball touches your hands, not taking that split second to think about it). But watch Nance, he is constantly catching the ball and then decides what he is going to do, it gives defenders that split second to adjust.
Example on the defensive end of not doing your work early, Ball goes in to the post, our big man is manoYmano with the other teams big man with Caleb out side guarding a shooter shooter. Caleb can see his big man needs help, he is closest to help. Their big man catches back to the basket with Bacot or Nance pinned so you want him to get help, in charges Caleb with the help and the big man simply passes it thru a wide open passing lane to the wide open shooter shooter who splashes the trey. Not only did Caleb not respect the passing lane back to the shooter shooter, he telegraphs his help so that the big man didn't have to wonder what Caleb was going to do nor wonder about what he was going to do (he was going to pass it to the shooter shooter)? Nothing like ,making a bad situation even worse ya know. You wait till that big man turns and commits, where he can no longer see either you or his open shooter shooter, then you drop and harass the dribble as well as give that big more to think about than just beating our big man defender. Now had Caleb done his work early, he would have stayed in the passing lane such that the only way to get it out to shooter shooter is to pass it over Calebs head, in which Caleb has time to recover back to the shooter, Caleb would be waiting in that passing lane until that big man made his turn and then he would have pounced. Do your work early, see the court, see the passing lanes, realize who is shooter shooter.
In a game, on any possession, there is a LOT of information that guys have to process really quickly, that has to become instinctual. When I talk about basketball IQ that is what I am referring to, how quickly they can see everything on the court, where their players are, where the other teams players are, what direction they are moving, where the ball is, where passing lanes to your mates are ect... It is a bit like a QB going thru his passing tree and making his decisions, requires really good focus.
One of if not the most important aspects of a really good PG is his ability to size up what is going on extremely quickly and exploit it. Thou I do think maybe RJ has a bit more of a basketball IQ than Caleb, it is anything but a strength for them both and it isn't really a strength for Nance either.
What I saw vs VT baffled me, I see Nance camped out well past the 3 pt line and we have zero board coverage and of course Love puts up one of those long hand in his face jumpers, they had 4 guys to the rebound and I didn't see a Tar Heel within 15' of the ball. Nance is standing around, doing NOTHING while the ball is being pounded in to the court with little purpose. While I do like the 5 out look, I do not like the isolation 5 out version (well actually 4 out with a driver). This is nonsense I would see at the local middle school black top court, maybe PE class but this is not college level basketball.
I have shared all along, Washington will in my opinion be a game changer for us, he is much more fluid and may be even longer than Nance. You put him in that high post and let him square and shoot, you put him in the short corner and take the back door opps. He has better feet and he is quicker than nance. Puff struggled some vs VT but I still think he is a better guy for the 4 than Nance. Nance is a 5 that does not have much bulk and slow feet and just is not real physical, but he is really skilled. He is a solid shooter with range beyond the 3pt arch or mid range when he has the time, I do like how he uses the back board on a lot of his mid range stuff, really good at that.
While I do get tired of folks bringing up Manek as compared to Nance, the major difference in the 2 is that Brady did his work early where Nance does his late. For example when manek caught the ball outside, he knew what he was going to do BEFORE the ball touched his hands. He had already checked to see if he had a good passing angle to a big man in the paint that was in great position to finish, he knew how far his defender was from him, he knew if that defender coming at him was hands up or hands down, and he knew if we had any board coverage, he knew where his feet were in respect to the 3pt line, as well as where we were on the shot clock. Because of that when the ball touched his hands he was in to his shooting motion with no hesitation (FYI, what is a quick trigger, it is going in to your shooting motion as soon as the ball touches your hands, not taking that split second to think about it). But watch Nance, he is constantly catching the ball and then decides what he is going to do, it gives defenders that split second to adjust.
Example on the defensive end of not doing your work early, Ball goes in to the post, our big man is manoYmano with the other teams big man with Caleb out side guarding a shooter shooter. Caleb can see his big man needs help, he is closest to help. Their big man catches back to the basket with Bacot or Nance pinned so you want him to get help, in charges Caleb with the help and the big man simply passes it thru a wide open passing lane to the wide open shooter shooter who splashes the trey. Not only did Caleb not respect the passing lane back to the shooter shooter, he telegraphs his help so that the big man didn't have to wonder what Caleb was going to do nor wonder about what he was going to do (he was going to pass it to the shooter shooter)? Nothing like ,making a bad situation even worse ya know. You wait till that big man turns and commits, where he can no longer see either you or his open shooter shooter, then you drop and harass the dribble as well as give that big more to think about than just beating our big man defender. Now had Caleb done his work early, he would have stayed in the passing lane such that the only way to get it out to shooter shooter is to pass it over Calebs head, in which Caleb has time to recover back to the shooter, Caleb would be waiting in that passing lane until that big man made his turn and then he would have pounced. Do your work early, see the court, see the passing lanes, realize who is shooter shooter.
In a game, on any possession, there is a LOT of information that guys have to process really quickly, that has to become instinctual. When I talk about basketball IQ that is what I am referring to, how quickly they can see everything on the court, where their players are, where the other teams players are, what direction they are moving, where the ball is, where passing lanes to your mates are ect... It is a bit like a QB going thru his passing tree and making his decisions, requires really good focus.
One of if not the most important aspects of a really good PG is his ability to size up what is going on extremely quickly and exploit it. Thou I do think maybe RJ has a bit more of a basketball IQ than Caleb, it is anything but a strength for them both and it isn't really a strength for Nance either.
Only response I can give to you concerning your post is that this team is playing very similar to last year's team and from the just under 10-minute mark we looked entirely different on both sides of the ball. If we had played the entire game with that kind of intensity......we win this game going away without Bacot or Dunn to help.
When the team watches the tape on this game, the Jekyl-Hyde play from the beginning to the 10-minute and from that point on mark is glaringly apparent. The question is: Did the guys see for themselves what is required to improve team play?
My post might seem to you to be optimistic, but I beg you not to put words in my mouth. I have several to more than several issues with our play that are concerning to say the least. However, I have been around long enough to see and to realize that there is lots of talent on this team and it just needs corralling. Chemistry on a team is so important and it's not yet formulated. Just because we have 80% of our starters back does not mean we will or even can pick up where we left off last year.
Different year, different team, different chemical equation. They have to find it and I think they will eventually once they get sick and tired of losing games that they should have won. In my mind the only game that they should have lost was to IU, the rest should have been wins. I also believe the weight of being #1 and all the talk about repeating and finishing what they didn't last season became too heavy a burden on this team and in their play this entire season, it has shown. I would much prefer this group like last year, come from behind the field while getting little respect nationally and blow teams doors off in the process. The teams that are disrespected and put it together during the last months of the regular season and into tournament play have proven to be the most dangerous teams to have to play.
The number one ranking was thanks-for-nothing fool's gold. We just took the elevator to
the bargain basement with only one top 25 vote.
Here's hoping that our guys dig deep, play with energy, and start clawing their way
back to contention this season by following the principles of Coach Smith. I believe
they will, one game at a time.
the bargain basement with only one top 25 vote.
Here's hoping that our guys dig deep, play with energy, and start clawing their way
back to contention this season by following the principles of Coach Smith. I believe
they will, one game at a time.
I have some interesting figures for all of us to chew on in regard to a comparison
between Manek last year through 9 games, and Nance through 9 games. For those who maintain that we have regressed with Manek's replacement....., chew on these figures for a while huh?
Manek
PPG------13
RPG------5.8
Overall shooting%---48%
3P %-----36%
Assists per game---1.3
Nance-This YTD
PPG------12.9
RPG------6.3
Overall shooting%---49%
3P%-----35.3
Assists per game---1.8
For those that have complained about Nance's effectiveness vss. Manek's, you are simply splitting hairs and do not have a leg to stand on.
Yeah we sucked 9 games into the season last year also. What's your point? Why would we judge Manek splitting time and playing backup at the beginning of the season when we sucked to later? When he was inserted as a starter and allowed to free roam, he opened our offense up tremendously - for everyone.
Nance is already a starter.
Your numbers are wrong but here is what we got.
Nance
32.1 MPG
FG 49.3%
2P 61.5%
3P 35.3%
FT 80%
DRB 5.6
ORB .7
TRB 6.3
Assist 1.8
Steal .3
Block 1.2
Tov 2.1
PF 2.1
PTS 12.9
Per 40
DRB 6.98
ORB .87
TRB 7.85
Assist 2.24
Steal .37
Block 1.5
Tov 2.62
PF 2.62
PTS 16.07
Manek
MPG 25.89
FG 41.2%
2P 62.5%
3P 36.2%
FT 80%
DRB 4.11
ORB 1
TRB 5.11
Ass 1.22
St .67
BL .67
TO 1.78
PFs 1.22
Pts 12.67
Per 40
DRB 6.35
ORB 1.55
TRB 7.9
Assist 1.88
Steal 1.04
Block 1.04
Tov 2.75
PF 1.88
PTS 19.58
And this is before Manek really came into his own. Notice Manek has more offensive rebounds than Nance. It's because Nance doesn't move as much, despite Manek taking way more shots on the perimeter than Nance does.
We can afford a defensive specialist who doesn't score much if the other guys score. But that's so last year.
If my numbers were incorrect, I got them from Goheels.com the official UNC website, but I would not argue those as I have seen other erroneous numbers from the site.
My point is that no one can argue or conclude that our dismal play thus far can be attributed to Nance while bemoaning not having Manek's production as they are fairly similar. It's easy to point to Manek's production as you have an entire season to base it on. Another point is that it's too early to draw any conclusions about Nance's effectiveness pro or con based on the two comparisons. Too early yet, and changes are on the horizon that will hopefully recharge efforts on both sides of the ball that perhaps will make this all moot.
Referring to the addition of Jalen Washington who will most likely see his first game court time going on 2 years now at home against GT. If he is the player that I have seen in practices, someone in the line-up will have to go to the bench. Of course, since he is going to break in slowly, so as to get acclimated to the speed of the game and get a feel for both O & D then work his way up....., hopefully. I mentioned in another post that the worst scenario would be to look like Tarzan-play like Jane, but that's not what I expect. I do however expect some big eyes and at times confusion on his part, it's just what has to happen, unless he is just a superior athlete and is just better than his ratings. I believe he was around the high 50's or low 60's and the reason he was that low was that he missed his senior season and others got pushed up ahead of him in ranking.
He did this last year with the same guys though and we almost won a title. So how can it just be a fad?
I think last year had a lot of luck involved and we probably weren't a top 5 team, but we were clearly good, especially the offense. What parts specifically cannot work with a spread pick and roll? To my eyes it's more the player limitations and some execution issues than the scheme.
I was thinking #16, but I'm most likely off, as I am not sure what his ranking was prior to his injuries.
Another site shows him under 20 (and several times 16-17) in the Fall of 2020, and staying close to that until late Summer of 2021. He committed to us in July of 2021 when he was still ranked 21.
Naturally when you get a guy like that you worry about whether he can be that good against college-level competition. And even if he can, you wonder how many years it will take to be a true star. But he definitely looked like star material before his injury.
With any luck we'll see for ourselves shortly. Even if he's 100%, I don't think we should expect too much for a while. But we can always hope....
Again, we did not run the same thing last season. Bacot didn't venture as far from the paint, and it was more 4-out, with both Bigs alternately diving and posting.
So you’re saying a team like UNC doesn’t have enough talent without Bacot and Dunn to beat VT? That’s sad if so.
Love, Davis, Nance, Leaky, Styles, Puff, Nickel, Trimble, and McCoy isn’t enough to beat most teams?
If we can’t beat these teams without 1 key player, UNC is in trouble and needs to recruit better. No excuses to not be able to beat VT without Bacot or Dunn (who hardly plays anyways).
The key is fitting the O to the personnel. I have said all along that Washington will help us a great deal if he is ready for prime time. I love the fact that our coaching staff isn't rushing him out there even though they know we need him because it isn't in HIS best interest! How many coaches would hold him out this long, especially with what he has been doing in practice? I love that Hubs remains relentlessly positive despite peeps wanting him to vent to the public! Nance cannot hold his position under the basket and is a little heavy footed to keep up with quicks on the perimeter! He needs to see the game from the bench and then come in with some real scouting! I think the shooting will come around and I think we will see increased bench play and more multiple defenses going forward. There is no way we put either RJ or Caleb on the bench, but I can definitely see Seth getting more minutes backing them both up. His D is scary good! 10-15 minutes of the ball we knew was in them has me amped to see more! RJ and Caleb need to toughen up since they can expect bully ball from now on! How they handle this, while increasing their desire to pass will determine our success as well!
RJ and Caleb could benefit from looking at their individual make/miss shot charts per game
to visualize where on the floor they are most successful shooting the basketball.
to visualize where on the floor they are most successful shooting the basketball.
No, what I meant was that as poorly as we played, had they been available, we most likely would have won this game. But, due to 1st half of dogging it on both ends of the court lost this game. Have to get better on both ends.
It can be an either or once it is seen how he affects overall team play. Not up to me, but I would personally relegate Nance to the bench, use him to sub for Bacot, and Puff for Jalen, if he proves out. Don't know how it's going to shake out until it does.
This team reminds me of last yr before Garcia left , not saying I want anyone to leave ... this team should get better but playing the bench alot takes the chemistry away. What very little they have ...... I'd bench the starters and start 3 rd string till the guys prove they are gonna get after it on both ends of the court ... no excuses for losing the way they have other than IDC ... NIL MONEY NOW ....
I recall a website from back when Coby White was here that showed that kind of stuff but I can't remember what it is. Does anybody have that link (or a google phrase that will get us there)?
I would start Washington eventually after he has a few games under his belt to ensure he can handle the load and is up to speed. I would then bring Nance off the bench to spell 4 & 5 . Leaky is the glue that keeps the team together and can either shut down peeps or do the little things that make a difference. Nance needs to see the game first then find his niche from off the bench! Nance, Bacot, and Washington should eventually have similar PT numbers!
It will be great if Jalen can come along that fast. Fingers crossed.
It would be great if he was able to hit the ground running, but I love that we can trust our staff not to rush him into too much. I am proud that they are holding him out even though it is clear he fits our needs perfectly! (assuming he is healthy and his practice play translates to the games)
