Quick stuff (VaTech game)...

[gary-7]

...and it really couldn't be more obvious.

So... question for the board (don't bother answering -- it's rhetorical):
Q. What'd we do different to suddenly get back into the game?
A. Just started doing Carolina basketball things.
- Specifically? Playing aggressively --- scrambling on defense (42/32/34) and finally attacking on offense.
Trouble is, we spent more than 3/4 of the game doing just the opposite.

So... to that last sentence, the next (obvious) question is, why? And I'll go ahead and tell ya, there is no acceptable answer.

Thus, the rest of this post is directed to the staff:
Hubert, Jeff, Sean, Brad?... meet me at Camera 3...
- Guys... watch the first-half film --- that was the most NON-offense display of offense I've ever witnessed. I actually tracked possessions today in lieu of some of the normal stuff, and welp, we actually passed the ball more than usual, BUT TO WHAT PURPOSE? There were possessions in which we passed as many as 7 TIMES and NOT A SINGLE GUY in blue so much as put a foot in the lane(!!!). I think Dean would remind y'all of this basic fact --- y'see that painted area?... that's where the basket is.

- Moreover, on several possessions nobody in blue ever SQUARED THEIR SHOULDERS to the hoop. Remember that "triple-threat" position y'all and every coach teaches? Being an actual threat from the perimeter starts there. Now, some of that is on the players, but the rest here is for the staff:

1. Starting a half-court offense with a Big above the arc is NOT a high post, it's just tits on a boar-hog, and mostly gets in the damn way. And I don't care if it's Mando or Pete, if he screens they're just gonna attack our Guards, and if we try to use him as a pivot that far out, then it's a TO waiting to happen. Please just STOP that, once and for all.

2. This whole 5-out notion is NOT a winning proposition. So. today we have our most mobile guys out there and it's still a merry-go-round cluster-f***. PLEASE guys, use the down-time to go back to the Carolina drawing board. No UNC fan, player or coach should ever be subjected to watching us get dominated in the paint like that.

3. And for the love if all that's sacred, PLEASE STOP OUT-THINKING YOURSELVES WITH OUR SECONDARY BREAK!!! It is the essence of the Carolina system's advantages, and having the first Big peel off and screen intead of sprinting to the block is ABSOLUTELY SMOTHERING it. We got nothing good on those possessions. In fact. the few time we got something out of the Secondary, a 4/5 man actually got into the paint.

4. And on defense, guys... this roster was MADE TO SCRAMBLE. It plays to our collective skills and covers up some areas of weakness. Plus, it ENERGIZES the team and leads to transition. And I'm gonna tell ya, without transition, this team ain't gonna make the Dance.

Anyway, there it is. And this ain't just coming from me --- this is the stuff I'm hearing from every coach I know. The staff and team needs a collective "come-to-Jesus" in Decemeber. We saw glaring reminders today of what NOT to do, but also a glimpse of the needed direction... and again, much of that frankl;y couldn't be more obvious...

 

[al would]

Didn't have to read much more than the "calling out the staff" part because that's been pretty much the problem. They (staff) should have brought in new guys a helluva lot sooner and we may not be in this funk. Same thing last year .. this is not a talent thing it's a coaching thing. jmho

 

[gary-7]

Didn't have to read much more than the "calling out the staff" part because that's been pretty much the problem. They (staff) should have brought in new guys a helluva lot sooner and we may not be in this funk. Same thing last year .. this is not a talent thing it's a coaching thing. jmho

Look, in fairness, it's both. And rather than "calling out", I'm calling FOR some serious self-scouting. Everyone who has ever coached (including Dean) has managed to out-think himself a time or two, and correction is often a process.

What I'm saying to the staff is it's time to come to grips with the reality that some (well-intended) ideas are being proven counterproductive, and that the solution is in the palms of their hands and whiteboards.

 

[Grover Thomas]

Gary my brother..you are right and was right in the beginning.

 

[gary-7]

Gary my brother..you are right and was right in the beginning.

Since I was concentrating on possessions and sets during the game, I just now looked at the rebounding numbers... and well, oh dear Lord.

 

[Grover Thomas]

Since I was concentrating on possessions and sets during the game, I just now looked at the rebounding numbers... and well, oh dear Lord.

Yeap ……what in the hell? Coaching crew got some plaining to do

 

[tarwhiz]

Coaches, brodcasters, media and fans alike keep lamenting about our rebounding ( especially offensive) not being up to Carolina standards.
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
Why were so many on these boards willing and hoping we would ditch the two big system in favor of this system that looks nothing like the Carolina basketball I grew up loving.
WE DON'T GET OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS BECAUSE WE TAKE POOR SHOTS WITH ZERO PEOPLE IN THE PAINT!!!!!!!!
We can't use middle ball screens because the defense blows it up before the guards can turn the corner.
I taught double teams on ball screens in 5th grade basketball, not that hard of a concept.
We have almost no action off the ball involving back screens, or cross screens freeing would-be pass recipients in the paint.
I am at a loss for what I am seeing, and if this isn't cleared up and rectified in the next month, not only the season could be lost.......but the 2024 recruiting class could suffer severely.
I really don't even know what I am watching anymore.
I still think we have the pieces on this team to achieve great things, but an adjustment in philosophy must take place.
I have been teaching nuances of the secondary break for years, my best youth teams rarely ever even ran offense, it was already there for the taking.
Please Coach Davis REMEMBERYOUR ROOTS.🙏🙏🙏

 

[imajericho]

Coaches, brodcasters, media and fans alike keep lamenting about our rebounding ( especially offensive) not being up to Carolina standards.
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
Why were so many on these boards willing and hoping we would ditch the two big system in favor of this system that looks nothing like the Carolina basketball I grew up loving.
WE DON'T GET OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS BECAUSE WE TAKE POOR SHOTS WITH ZERO PEOPLE IN THE PAINT!!!!!!!!
We can't use middle ball screens because the defense blows it up before the guards can turn the corner.
I taught double teams on ball screens in 5th grade basketball, not that hard of a concept.
We have almost no action off the ball involving back screens, or cross screens freeing would-be pass recipients in the paint.
I am at a loss for what I am seeing, and if this isn't cleared up and rectified in the next month, not only the season could be lost.......but the 2024 recruiting class could suffer severely.
I really don't even know what I am watching anymore.
I still think we have the pieces on this team to achieve great things, but an adjustment in philosophy must take place.
I have been teaching nuances of the secondary break for years, my best youth teams rarely ever even ran offense, it was already there for the taking.
Please Coach Davis REMEMBERYOUR ROOTS.🙏🙏🙏

We don't rebound well with Nance and Bacot in together either.

 

[gary-7]

Coaches, brodcasters, media and fans alike keep lamenting about our rebounding ( especially offensive) not being up to Carolina standards.
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
Why were so many on these boards willing and hoping we would ditch the two big system in favor of this system that looks nothing like the Carolina basketball I grew up loving.
WE DON'T GET OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS BECAUSE WE TAKE POOR SHOTS WITH ZERO PEOPLE IN THE PAINT!!!!!!!!
We can't use middle ball screens because the defense blows it up before the guards can turn the corner.
I taught double teams on ball screens in 5th grade basketball, not that hard of a concept.
We have almost no action off the ball involving back screens, or cross screens freeing would-be pass recipients in the paint.
I am at a loss for what I am seeing, and if this isn't cleared up and rectified in the next month, not only the season could be lost.......but the 2024 recruiting class could suffer severely.
I really don't even know what I am watching anymore.
I still think we have the pieces on this team to achieve great things, but an adjustment in philosophy must take place.
I have been teaching nuances of the secondary break for years, my best youth teams rarely ever even ran offense, it was already there for the taking.
Please Coach Davis REMEMBERYOUR ROOTS.🙏🙏🙏

I can't disagree with any of this.

 

[tarwhiz]

We don't rebound well with Nance and Bacot in together either.

You just missed the point.
We wouldn't rebound well with Shaquille O'Neil and Moses Malone if they were both standing 20' from the basket for 25 seconds of the shot clock.
It is the OFFENSIVE SYSTEM!

 

[gary-7]

We don't rebound well with Nance and Bacot in together either.

Because we are not utilizing them effectively, and that was @tarwhiz 's point.

 

[imajericho]

We rebounded just fine last year.

 

[ChiShankCity]

This roster is built more for Roy's traditional 2 big guys, secondary break stuff.

I will say 100% I like Hubert's offense in general and think the system needed a facelift. However, it will continue to be a disappointing UNC tradition if Hubert tries to fit pieces into his system instead of being flexible with his style and working around the player's strengths.

I'm a Chicago Bears fan and witnessed the Bears trying to make their offense with Justin Fields doing drop-back passes. As a result, they had the worst offense in the NFL. Then they entirely designed the offense around his unique ability and they have like a top 5 scoring offense since when he started. Coach to your player's strengths. Don't force them into a system unless it's going to maximize their talent.

Now, an important point... We are not that good of a team. We are simply less good when we are missing arguably our best player. We're capable of losing to a lot of teams in the ACC with Bacot. We're capable of losing to a few more without him.

 

[imajericho]

The problem is that Hubert is honoring promises instead of putting the best pieces on the court. Nance and Bacot can't play together offensively. You need another moving shooter to play his style. Even if you play typical 2 big carolina system, Nance ball watches instead of rebounding effectively on the offensive end.

The 2 big Carolina system which is fairly outdated is to congest the lane which limits drives by the perimeter. But get more angles to feed the post on either side. Getting more post shots. Shot efficiency goes down with less getting to the hole by the perimeter, but it's meant to be offset with offensive rebounding of 2 bigs to gather the misses, hopefully for put backs.

Hubert system is to remove the congestion, draw the opposing bigs out, and get higher percentage shots through drives and kicks.

We unfortunately haven't properly been utilizing the right personnel to maximize this.

 

[gauchoheel]

I don't want to see us go back to two bigs in the paint, personally. It didn't work Roy's last couple years and we had great results with four out last year. Tons of other teams do as well (Nova's won 2 championships with an NBA offer), so it's just nonsense to say "it can't work" or something similar. Maybe certain things we are teaching wrong, the personnel is mismatched, or Nance is not the right fit at the 4, but if the claim is that a 4-out offense can't work, it's bogus.

What seems clear to me:
1. Nance cannot play the 5 very well because he can't hold his own inside. His rebounding is an issue
2. We don't have Caleb or RJ playing offensively like they did last year. Not sure why.
3. Leaky makes executing offense a lot tougher. That's the same as last year, but Manek really was an elite off-ball guy to help cover up for it. It's not just the shooting for Leaky; he's also not explosive at all to do much slashing.
4. Nance and Bacot still force too much inside. Nance had two or three tough hooks/fadeaways today that weren't good shots.
5. The team is going to shoot better from 3; we're at 29% on the year. With even average shooting things wouldn't look so dire.
6. The defense is still a bigger problem than the offense, as it was last year.

 

[tarwhiz]

We rebounded just fine last year.

Really?
Mando rebounded just fine last year.
As in one of the greatest individual rebounding year in school history.
The offensive rebounding numbers of anyone NOT named Bacot are diminished greatly in the last 50 games.

 

[gkss]

...and it really couldn't be more obvious.

So... question for the board (don't bother answering -- it's rhetorical):
Q. What'd we do different to suddenly get back into the game?
A. Just started doing Carolina basketball things.
- Specifically? Playing aggressively --- scrambling on defense (42/32/34) and finally attacking on offense.
Trouble is, we spent more than 3/4 of the game doing just the opposite.

So... to that last sentence, the next (obvious) question is, why? And I'll go ahead and tell ya, there is no acceptable answer.

Thus, the rest of this post is directed to the staff:
Hubert, Jeff, Sean, Brad?... meet me at Camera 3...
- Guys... watch the first-half film --- that was the most NON-offense display of offense I've ever witnessed. I actually tracked possessions today in lieu of some of the normal stuff, and welp, we actually passed the ball more than usual, BUT TO WHAT PURPOSE? There were possessions in which we passed as many as 7 TIMES and NOT A SINGLE GUY in blue so much as put a foot in the lane(!!!). I think Dean would remind y'all of this basic fact --- y'see that painted area?... that's where the basket is.

- Moreover, on several possessions nobody in blue ever SQUARED THEIR SHOULDERS to the hoop. Remember that "triple-threat" position y'all and every coach teaches? Being an actual threat from the perimeter starts there. Now, some of that is on the players, but the rest here is for the staff:

1. Starting a half-court offense with a Big above the arc is NOT a high post, it's just tits on a boar-hog, and mostly gets in the damn way. And I don't care if it's Mando or Pete, if he screens they're just gonna attack our Guards, and if we try to use him as a pivot that far out, then it's a TO waiting to happen. Please just STOP that, once and for all.

2. This whole 5-out notion is NOT a winning proposition. So. today we have our most mobile guys out there and it's still a merry-go-round cluster-f***. PLEASE guys, use the down-time to go back to the Carolina drawing board. No UNC fan, player or coach should ever be subjected to watching us get dominated in the paint like that.

3. And for the love if all that's sacred, PLEASE STOP OUT-THINKING YOURSELVES WITH OUR SECONDARY BREAK!!! It is the essence of the Carolina system's advantages, and having the first Big peel off and screen intead of sprinting to the block is ABSOLUTELY SMOTHERING it. We got nothing good on those possessions. In fact. the few time we got something out of the Secondary, a 4/5 man actually got into the paint.

4. And on defense, guys... this roster was MADE TO SCRAMBLE. It plays to our collective skills and covers up some areas of weakness. Plus, it ENERGIZES the team and leads to transition. And I'm gonna tell ya, without transition, this team ain't gonna make the Dance.

Anyway, there it is. And this ain't just coming from me --- this is the stuff I'm hearing from every coach I know. The staff and team needs a collective "come-to-Jesus" in Decemeber. We saw glaring reminders today of what NOT to do, but also a glimpse of the needed direction... and again, much of that frankl;y couldn't be more obvious...

Thanks Gary

 

[tarwhiz]

I am not saying a 4 out offense can't work, I was speaking specifically about WHY we are not offensive rebounding this season. My first comment began with that from the first sentence.
We can still run a 4 out offense without dismantling the secondary break, it is set up for the first big to run to the strongside block, not stopping at the top of the key. Everyone can get what they want, if a little adaption is made.
As for the 2 big system being outdated?
I posted something in the past about the makeup of each of the last 25 national championship teams. Nova was pointed out, and I will add Kansas last season, but the overwhelming majority of Natty teams in the last 25 years consisted of 2 big offenses.
The great teams still play two bigs, it just became harder to recruit multyple players of that calibre. I will add examples later today.

 

[Tarheel75]

Pretty much laid it out there Gary as we have discussed some off-line. Good write up partner.

In one of my posts, I mentioned that historically, our team does not play well after exams. Why this is, who knows? But keep in mind that this game was lost in the first 20 minutes, and Gary was right on point by calling attention to the team playing with effort and focus from just under the 10-minute mark down to the finish.

Remember we were without the services of Bacot & Dunn, who would have made the difference between winning and losing, I do believe. While no one likes for us to lose games, this one doesn't irritate me as bad as others. That last 10 minutes showed us that this team can play defense when it wants to, and if we had just got that one bucket around the 3-minute mark, it would have been an interesting finish from there as the VT players sphincter muscle was about to get loose after seeing their 18-point lead dwindle down to 5, you could see it on the VT players faces and their coach called a T/O to calm them down.

Now...., the 5-out offense.... I am not a proponent of it; however, it can be an offensive juggernaut IF you have the correct personnel to run it. Which brings us to the question...... do we have the personnel to run this offense the way it's intended to be run? We do if Washington is the type of offensive player I think that he will be. The problems we are experiencing with the personnel we put on the court will continue to plague us until we have a 4 man who not only can shoot, but can also defend quicker opponents. Last night, we all saw the biggest issue with Nance, as he was a step slow in recovery and help side defense and the VT players had an easy basket almost every time the ball went into the paint area, thus, we need both Bacot and Washington on the court asap.

It's just me and my group that attends games together's opinion, that if Washington gets acclimated to playing again after a long sit, he is the key to the success of the offense that they all want to run. All of the players agreed that this offense is the one that they think will be successful in the long run of this season. Bacot cannot be the point in a 5-out offense as he is not athletic enough nor coordinated enough to drive the ball to the basket (i.e.) T/O's and losing control of the ball over 50% of the time to date. He should be moved to the short corner post and Washington should take the point. Pete has to take one for the team and come off the bench to spell either Bacot or Washington and provide some offense and defense. I think we can all see now why Pete is not in the NBA, as he has quickness issues that would get him killed at his position in the NBA.

Will this happen? Have to wait and see and hope that promises were not made in regard to playing time or starting positions.

Look....., we all who watched the game also saw the potential in the last 10 minutes of this game and I think it will resonate with our guys that this is what's required for 40 minutes and not when you are getting skull drug in a game.

Also, there was a bright spot to mention...., Hubert has started using his bench and the guys worked and played like their lives depended on it. Also, I wanted to mention that our guards still are not driving and kicking the ball out to open shooters. This has to change too. Puff did not have a good game and was off offensively. However, he was open on a half a dozen possession's that he should have gotten the pass off a drive. Even though it appeared that Puff had a really bad shooting night, he simply was not afforded an opportunity to get in a shooting rhythm and thus was shooting cold and I know from experience that shooting cold is a real thing and good shooters need to shoot to get that rhythm and Puff was never afforded that opportunity.

Again..., I mention that this team is eerily playing and looking like last year's team minus Manek. Our guard play has to improve and stop shooting the ball so much, especially when you have others who can shoot and need to be incorporated into the offense. The only player that I didn't think was up to par was Styles, he took quick shots as soon as he touched the ball and missed them all..., badly. He needs to sit until he can learn to get his points within the flow of the offense and not squander possessions by throwing up questionable shots. He has to realize that he is not an offensive threat and teams will let him shoot whenever he wants..., and that appears to be anytime he has the ball in his hands.

I haven't looked closely at our assist per game average in the last 4 games, but without looking, I am sure we are in the single digits, and that is on the guards primarily. They are shooting way too much and not distributing hardly at all and that too has to improve. I could say more, lots more, but I will stop now.

To @Archer2.... As I mentioned to you in answering your question of how Hubert gets this team playing up to their potential? I think I mentioned another ass-whooping or two. Well...., here is one for the books. The bright spot is in the last 10 minutes of this game as they were playing like they should have for the entire game and maybe this gets through to them.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

4. And on defense, guys... this roster was MADE TO SCRAMBLE. It plays to our collective skills and covers up some areas of weakness. Plus, it ENERGIZES the team and leads to transition. And I'm gonna tell ya, without transition, this team ain't gonna make the Dance.

Agreed, but who are our best scramblers?

I would love to see a team of scramblers on the floor, but I worry that few of our best scramblers can hit the proverbial broadside of a barn.

To my eye, Seth and Puff look like our best scramblers but their per 40 min scoring numbers are 9.9 and 10.3, respectively. I wouldn't mind them getting more minutes, but we need scorers, too. Styles, Dunn and McKoy show intensity, too, but are even worse scorers.

 

[alabamaheel]

Pretty much laid it out there Gary as we have discussed some off-line. Good write up partner.

In one of my posts, I mentioned that historically, our team does not play well after exams. Why this is, who knows? But keep in mind that this game was lost in the first 20 minutes, and Gary was right on point by calling attention to the team playing with effort and focus from just under the 10-minute mark down to the finish.

Remember we were without the services of Bacot & Dunn, who would have made the difference between winning and losing, I do believe. While no one likes for us to lose games, this one doesn't irritate me as bad as others. That last 10 minutes showed us that this team can play defense when it wants to, and if we had just got that one bucket around the 3-minute mark, it would have been an interesting finish from there as the VT players sphincter muscle was about to get loose after seeing their 18-point lead dwindle down to 5, you could see it on the VT players faces and their coach called a T/O to calm them down.

Now...., the 5-out offense.... I am not a proponent of it; however, it can be an offensive juggernaut IF you have the correct personnel to run it. Which brings us to the question...... do we have the personnel to run this offense the way it's intended to be run? We do if Washington is the type of offensive player I think that he will be. The problems we are experiencing with the personnel we put on the court will continue to plague us until we have a 4 man who not only can shoot, but can also defend quicker opponents. Last night, we all saw the biggest issue with Nance, as he was a step slow in recovery and help side defense and the VT players had an easy basket almost every time the ball went into the paint area, thus, we need both Bacot and Washington on the court asap.

It's just me and my group that attends games together's opinion, that if Washington gets acclimated to playing again after a long sit, he is the key to the success of the offense that they all want to run. All of the players agreed that this offense is the one that they think will be successful in the long run of this season. Bacot cannot be the point in a 5-out offense as he is not athletic enough nor coordinated enough to drive the ball to the basket (i.e.) T/O's and losing control of the ball over 50% of the time to date. He should be moved to the short corner post and Washington should take the point. Pete has to take one for the team and come off the bench to spell either Bacot or Washington and provide some offense and defense. I think we can all see now why Pete is not in the NBA, as he has quickness issues that would get him killed at his position in the NBA.

Will this happen? Have to wait and see and hope that promises were not made in regard to playing time or starting positions.

Look....., we all who watched the game also saw the potential in the last 10 minutes of this game and I think it will resonate with our guys that this is what's required for 40 minutes and not when you are getting skull drug in a game.

Also, there was a bright spot to mention...., Hubert has started using his bench and the guys worked and played like their lives depended on it. Also, I wanted to mention that our guards still are not driving and kicking the ball out to open shooters. This has to change too. Puff did not have a good game and was off offensively. However, he was open on a half a dozen possession's that he should have gotten the pass off a drive. Even though it appeared that Puff had a really bad shooting night, he simply was not afforded an opportunity to get in a shooting rhythm and thus was shooting cold and I know from experience that shooting cold is a real thing and good shooters need to shoot to get that rhythm and Puff was never afforded that opportunity.

Again..., I mention that this team is eerily playing and looking like last year's team minus Manek. Our guard play has to improve and stop shooting the ball so much, especially when you have others who can shoot and need to be incorporated into the offense. The only player that I didn't think was up to par was Styles, he took quick shots as soon as he touched the ball and missed them all..., badly. He needs to sit until he can learn to get his points within the flow of the offense and not squander possessions by throwing up questionable shots. He has to realize that he is not an offensive threat and teams will let him shoot whenever he wants..., and that appears to be anytime he has the ball in his hands.

I haven't looked closely at our assist per game average in the last 4 games, but without looking, I am sure we are in the single digits, and that is on the guards primarily. They are shooting way too much and not distributing hardly at all and that too has to improve. I could say more, lots more, but I will stop now.

To @Archer2.... As I mentioned to you in answering your question of how Hubert gets this team playing up to their potential? I think I mentioned another ass-whooping or two. Well...., here is one for the books. The bright spot is in the last 10 minutes of this game as they were playing like they should have for the entire game and maybe this gets through to them.

In your opinion when is Washington going to play?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Since I was concentrating on possessions and sets during the game, I just now looked at the rebounding numbers... and well, oh dear Lord.

We probably win this game if Armando is healthy. So, rather than fix anything, they'll just wait for Armando to come back. Yes, that was sarcasm, but will it surprise anyone if it ends up being true?

My comment above is this first time this year I have looked at per-40 numbers. Our top rebounders on that measure - Armando, Styles, and Pete - are all rebounding at a lower rate than last year.

Yeah, yeah, it's not the be-all, end-all statistic, but it's still disturbing.

Interestingly enough, Pete's per-40 rebounding number (7.9) is nearly identical to Brady's from last season (8.0) but his scoring (16.1) falls short (19.8). Brady played more on the perimeter by design. What's Pete's excuse?

 

[Tarheel75]

In your opinion when is Washington going to play?

Next home game against GT

 

[alabamaheel]

Next home game against GT

Thanks 75. Just to pick your brain a little. Is he going to help us? Will he push others to work harder?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Next home game against GT

We have 2 creampuffs ahead. That would be a good time for Jalen to blow off some rust.

We shouldn't need him to rescue us, but if he's healthy and can ramp up quickly, he might be what we need.

How are his hands? I ask because Pete and Armando have shown weakness in that area this season.

 

[Tarheel75]

We probably win this game if Armando is healthy. So, rather than fix anything, they'll just wait for Armando to come back. Yes, that was sarcasm, but will it surprise anyone if it ends up being true?

My comment above is this first time this year I have looked at per-40 numbers. Our top rebounders on that measure - Armando, Styles, and Pete - are all rebounding at a lower rate than last year.

Yeah, yeah, it's not the be-all, end-all statistic, but it's still disturbing.

Interestingly enough, Pete's per-40 rebounding number (7.9) is nearly identical to Brady's from last season (8.0) but his scoring (16.1) falls short (19.8). Brady played more on the perimeter by design. What's Pete's excuse?

Pete's excuse, if there be one, is in how they are using him. He stands stationary too much and needs to be more active in his movement(s). His calling card was and is perimeter shooting with a mix of acceptable defense, his perimeter offense is fair, but his defense is lacking due to being a little slow afoot.

This is a bad combination for him, as it puts him in jeopardy of committing fouls as we saw last night and in other games this season to date. This is why when we are in the 5-man out offense, he should be the point, if he is playing with Bacot to reduce the risk of T/O's by Armando and leave Armando free to post or position himself for rebounds. I do think that and again if Washington is the talent I and others think him to be, once he gets acclimated should replace Nance in the starting line-up, and he would be ideal at the point, as he is nimble, athletic, and can dribble drive to the basket and or hand off or pass off if the situation calls for it.

 

[Tarheel75]

Thanks 75. Just to pick your brain a little. Is he going to help us? Will he push others to work harder?

Yeah, definitely can help. We need his quickness and scoring ability as well as hopefully, his defensive capability. Trying not build him up as the savior of this team, however, if he plays like he has practiced and not look like Tarzan and play like Jane, we will have a weapon. It's just that no one knows how he is going to react to playing for the first time in going on 2 years.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

at what point do we start to worry about the fact we gave Hubert an extension after frankly, only a month of good, consistent basketball last year? I was one of many on here who questioned the pressing need to "reward" Hubert with an early extension because we made a run in the tournament after a mediocre season. Looking more and more like that was a total fluke.

 

[tarwhiz]

Pretty much laid it out there Gary as we have discussed some off-line. Good write up partner.

In one of my posts, I mentioned that historically, our team does not play well after exams. Why this is, who knows? But keep in mind that this game was lost in the first 20 minutes, and Gary was right on point by calling attention to the team playing with effort and focus from just under the 10-minute mark down to the finish.

Remember we were without the services of Bacot & Dunn, who would have made the difference between winning and losing, I do believe. While no one likes for us to lose games, this one doesn't irritate me as bad as others. That last 10 minutes showed us that this team can play defense when it wants to, and if we had just got that one bucket around the 3-minute mark, it would have been an interesting finish from there as the VT players sphincter muscle was about to get loose after seeing their 18-point lead dwindle down to 5, you could see it on the VT players faces and their coach called a T/O to calm them down.

Now...., the 5-out offense.... I am not a proponent of it; however, it can be an offensive juggernaut IF you have the correct personnel to run it. Which brings us to the question...... do we have the personnel to run this offense the way it's intended to be run? We do if Washington is the type of offensive player I think that he will be. The problems we are experiencing with the personnel we put on the court will continue to plague us until we have a 4 man who not only can shoot, but can also defend quicker opponents. Last night, we all saw the biggest issue with Nance, as he was a step slow in recovery and help side defense and the VT players had an easy basket almost every time the ball went into the paint area, thus, we need both Bacot and Washington on the court asap.

It's just me and my group that attends games together's opinion, that if Washington gets acclimated to playing again after a long sit, he is the key to the success of the offense that they all want to run. All of the players agreed that this offense is the one that they think will be successful in the long run of this season. Bacot cannot be the point in a 5-out offense as he is not athletic enough nor coordinated enough to drive the ball to the basket (i.e.) T/O's and losing control of the ball over 50% of the time to date. He should be moved to the short corner post and Washington should take the point. Pete has to take one for the team and come off the bench to spell either Bacot or Washington and provide some offense and defense. I think we can all see now why Pete is not in the NBA, as he has quickness issues that would get him killed at his position in the NBA.

Will this happen? Have to wait and see and hope that promises were not made in regard to playing time or starting positions.

Look....., we all who watched the game also saw the potential in the last 10 minutes of this game and I think it will resonate with our guys that this is what's required for 40 minutes and not when you are getting skull drug in a game.

Also, there was a bright spot to mention...., Hubert has started using his bench and the guys worked and played like their lives depended on it. Also, I wanted to mention that our guards still are not driving and kicking the ball out to open shooters. This has to change too. Puff did not have a good game and was off offensively. However, he was open on a half a dozen possession's that he should have gotten the pass off a drive. Even though it appeared that Puff had a really bad shooting night, he simply was not afforded an opportunity to get in a shooting rhythm and thus was shooting cold and I know from experience that shooting cold is a real thing and good shooters need to shoot to get that rhythm and Puff was never afforded that opportunity.

Again..., I mention that this team is eerily playing and looking like last year's team minus Manek. Our guard play has to improve and stop shooting the ball so much, especially when you have others who can shoot and need to be incorporated into the offense. The only player that I didn't think was up to par was Styles, he took quick shots as soon as he touched the ball and missed them all..., badly. He needs to sit until he can learn to get his points within the flow of the offense and not squander possessions by throwing up questionable shots. He has to realize that he is not an offensive threat and teams will let him shoot whenever he wants..., and that appears to be anytime he has the ball in his hands.

I haven't looked closely at our assist per game average in the last 4 games, but without looking, I am sure we are in the single digits, and that is on the guards primarily. They are shooting way too much and not distributing hardly at all and that too has to improve. I could say more, lots more, but I will stop now.

To @Archer2.... As I mentioned to you in answering your question of how Hubert gets this team playing up to their potential? I think I mentioned another ass-whooping or two. Well...., here is one for the books. The bright spot is in the last 10 minutes of this game as they were playing like they should have for the entire game and maybe this gets through to them.

Great post! I agree about Washington, and have called him the Wildcard all Summer. I am not sure why he has not seen the floor yet ( discussion for another dsy) but as soon as he gets acclimated and Bacot healthy, this team could roll. It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that this happens before the Ohio St and Michigan games. Our resume needs these two high profile neutral court wins before heading exclusively into ACC play.

 

[Bubspub88]

Nice write-up Gary and 75 I admire your optimism. I wish i could feel as positive. I am not sure Bacot puts us over the hump in that game, at least the Bacot from this season. He would have obviously helped on the boards but he has just not been the best player on the court in may games. As for Washington I hope he is as advertised but he has been out for a while and it seems bigs have a more difficult transition to college, and he has missed the chance to play against the lesser competition.

Until the backcourt chemistry issues are resolved this team has a fairly low ceiling in my opinion. Guard play in college determines your success and ours has just been awful. Honestly I see a team that reminds me of the UNC opponents I used to laugh at, world of talent but piss poor execution on the floor.

I was really hoping this team would play like some the Carolina basketball teams in the 80's and 90's, great college talent but played together in a system that made the whole much better than the parts.

 

[imajericho]

A good example of the difference between Manek and Nance happened in this game.

He sets a screen for RJ and leaks to the key. RJ dumps the pass immediately to Nance who is wide open. At this moment Manek is doing 1 of 2 things. (Very rarely he might dribble up for a floater) He is making the big to big pass to the post (Armando was out this game so he didn't have a big to pass to there but could have passed elsewhere) or he is immediately putting up the shot.

Nance instead hesitates til a defender scrambles to him. Then the ball stops and someone has to help him deeper out so he can pass out of it.

This is something Nance has to work on because this has to be an aspect of our offense. If he starts being a threat from this position, they can't handle the screen the same. Then you can start faking pick and leak to the pick and go where RJ drives the lane with Nance on the right and able to be tossed to over the defense for an easy layup.

Until we play this right, we have an aspect of our offense missing.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Until the backcourt chemistry issues are resolved ...

How?

Suppose either RJ or Caleb had to sit out the next 8 games - just to pick a number, non-serious reason - would that be addition by subtraction, a disaster, or what?

Let Seth play point and let either RJ or Caleb be Dexter to Seth's Marcus.

Probably a disaster unless Seth can keep them honest with his shooting, but maybe not if he can keep them honest.

In which case, which back court do you prefer: Seth-RJ or Seth-Caleb?

 

[gary-7]

We rebounded just fine last year.

We didn't run our ofense like this last year.

 

[gary-7]

I am not saying a 4 out offense can't work, I was speaking specifically about WHY we are not offensive rebounding this season. My first comment began with that from the first sentence.
We can still run a 4 out offense without dismantling the secondary break, it is set up for the first big to run to the strongside block, not stopping at the top of the key. Everyone can get what they want, if a little adaption is made.
As for the 2 big system being outdated?
I posted something in the past about the makeup of each of the last 25 national championship teams. Nova was pointed out, and I will add Kansas last season, but the overwhelming majority of Natty teams in the last 25 years consisted of 2 big offenses.
The great teams still play two bigs, it just became harder to recruit multyple players of that calibre. I will add examples later today.

And it's not even about 4-out... what we seemed to have morphed into is 5-out and that's just DOA.

 

[imajericho]

We didn't run our ofense like this last year.

We did. Just with better personnel for it that did more with it. Nance isn't moving like Manek and doesn't seem to have the same basketball IQ to pick spots on the baseline or when to crash for rebounds.

 

[imajericho]

Efficiency-wise this was one of our better shooting games.

RJ 6-11 6-7 FTs 18 points.

18 points on 11 shots is great. Good numbers from the FT line. 2 steals - 2 turnovers. Wash on possessions.

Nance 6-13 5-6 FTs 18 points.

Slightly less efficient than RJ but still very efficient due to good FT numbers. 4 turnovers though which is bad bad bad.

Puff 0-2 0 points.

Obviously inefficient but didn't end up playing much or mattering much. Seemed to be pulled when realized he wasn't doing much.

Love 5-10 6-9 FTs 18 points.

As efficient as RJ pretty much, but did leave points at the line with not great FT shooting. 1 steal, 1 block, 3 turnovers. Needs to tighten up on the turnovers or do more defensively to make up for it.

Leaky 1-3 2 points

Inefficient. No steals or turnovers. If he wasn't bottling up someone defensively then this was a void. Did get 2 blocks.

Nickel 3-5 8 points 2-3 FTs

Efficient. FTs only being 67% isn't good enough but was too small sample size to judge effectively. No turnovers. He outplayed Puff and Leaky offensively.

Trimble 3-3 6 points

Add in a steal and Trimble was very efficient.

Styles 0-3 Inefficient also fumbled a pass on a baseline pass for a good position on a layup.

All in all, the team was efficient offensively for the most part. However, they got outrebounded badly and also had breakdowns on defense / mismatches. This game wasn't lost on offense. It was lost on defense and the boards. We gave them too many more extra possessions.

 

[tarwhiz]

A good example of the difference between Manek and Nance happened in this game.

He sets a screen for RJ and leaks to the key. RJ dumps the pass immediately to Nance who is wide open. At this moment Manek is doing 1 of 2 things. (Very rarely he might dribble up for a floater) He is making the big to big pass to the post (Armando was out this game so he didn't have a big to pass to there but could have passed elsewhere) or he is immediately putting up the shot.

Nance instead hesitates til a defender scrambles to him. Then the ball stops and someone has to help him deeper out so he can pass out of it.

This is something Nance has to work on because this has to be an aspect of our offense. If he starts being a threat from this position, they can't handle the screen the same. Then you can start faking pick and leak to the pick and go where RJ drives the lane with Nance on the right and able to be tossed to over the defense for an easy layup.

Until we play this right, we have an aspect of our offense missing.

Good post, Nance is somewhat mechanical while Brady was more fluid.
I do like the scenario you paint with either Nance or Washington at the point in middle ball screen. Bacot must remain in the short corner, as 75 spoke of so he can dive in for quick post up or provide the weakside lob or board on a guard drive.

 

[tarwhiz]

And it's not even about 4-out... what we seemed to have morphed into is 5-out and that's just DOA.

Agreed. We currently have a " non- shooter" in one corner and a slow release shooter in the other. And as 75 pointed out Puff, and I will add Leaky, were open multyple times in the corner and the guards ignored them and took contested shots or committed charging fouls.

 

[gary-7]

We did. Just with better personnel for it that did more with it. Nance isn't moving like Manek and doesn't seem to have the same basketball IQ to pick spots on the baseline or when to crash for rebounds.

No, we did not run the same scheme.

 

[gary-7]

I don't want to see us go back to two bigs in the paint, personally. It didn't work Roy's last couple years and we had great results with four out last year. Tons of other teams do as well (Nova's won 2 championships with an NBA offer), so it's just nonsense to say "it can't work" or something similar. Maybe certain things we are teaching wrong, the personnel is mismatched, or Nance is not the right fit at the 4, but if the claim is that a 4-out offense can't work, it's bogus.

What seems clear to me:
1. Nance cannot play the 5 very well because he can't hold his own inside. His rebounding is an issue
2. We don't have Caleb or RJ playing offensively like they did last year. Not sure why.
3. Leaky makes executing offense a lot tougher. That's the same as last year, but Manek really was an elite off-ball guy to help cover up for it. It's not just the shooting for Leaky; he's also not explosive at all to do much slashing.
4. Nance and Bacot still force too much inside. Nance had two or three tough hooks/fadeaways today that weren't good shots.
5. The team is going to shoot better from 3; we're at 29% on the year. With even average shooting things wouldn't look so dire.
6. The defense is still a bigger problem than the offense, as it was last year.

Not meaning to single out your post, but for the sake of everyone not talking past each other, Roy's offense was NOT necessarily two Bigs in the paint (nor was Dean's, for that matter). Look at it with Luke at the 4, or hell, even 2017, Bigs are cutting in and out of the lane. and the Passing Game Freelance inherently has in-and-out movement.

We have morphed into some faddish 5-out garbage --- and that's what it is, a fad., It's made the most of the NBA damn near unwatchable, but more importantly, for us it makes no sense to try to do that without NBA players. I'm gonna say it straight-up, that is a losing proposition.