Raymond Felton and Theo Pinson point to PG...

[imajericho]

North Carolina legend and 2005 Bob Cousy Award winner Raymond Felton shared his thoughts on the state of the UNC basketball roster following the Tar Heels' 87-70 loss at Duke on Saturday. Felton pointed to deficiencies in the team's frontcourt as a reason for UNC's disappointing 13-10 start to the season and also criticized the play of point guard Elliot Cadeau on a recent podcast appearance.

"We need two bigs. We need a point guard, too," Felton said following the Duke game, via Run Your Race. "I like the kid (Cadeau) as a kid. He's a good kid. We need a point guard. He's got a lot to learn, shall I say. A lot of the decisions he makes going to the basket. He plays a lot of bully ball, but he's not a bully. He tries to go to the basket and run people over."

Cadeau scored eight points on 3-of-10 shooting against Duke and committed a team-high eight turnovers. The sophomore point guard leads the ACC with 73 turnovers in 23 games this season (3.2 avg.), eclipsing his turnover total from last season at 67 in 37 games (1.8 avg.). He committed five of UNC's first nine turnovers against Duke.


"Some of the passes he makes in the winning times of the game [are questionable]," Felton said of Cadeau. "Let's go back a game. The bounce pass he made against Pitt when we were up two with two minutes left in the game. We got the ball. We got in position. You don't make that bounce pass to that big when he's running through traffic. That's not Sean May, I'm sorry. Sean May had some of the best hands of any big I ever played with. I could have made that pass to Sean May, and he would've caught it. I knew that as a point guard. He's been playing with these bigs all year. He knows his players. For him to make that pass in crunch time is absurd to me. I'm not saying he's the reason we are losing. We are losing for a lot of reasons. We need to get a lot in the transfer portal."

Felton's co-host, 2017 national champion Theo Pinson, also shared disappointment in how the point guard position is being played at UNC this season. Cadeau is on pace to average the highest turnovers for any Tar Heel since Cole Anthony averaged 3.5 as a freshman in the 2019-20 season.

"The point guard position is very pivotal for us, and it's not being played at a high level," Pinson said. "That's just me calling a spade a spade. It's not being played at a high level. Our margin of error is too thin for us to be making those decisions at the end of games. It's not getting played at a high level."

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The sophomore point guard leads the ACC with 73 turnovers in 23 games this season (3.2 avg.), eclipsing his turnover total from last season at 67 in 37 games (1.8 avg.).

Yikes! I had no idea it was that rough.

As you might guess from those numbers, Elliot's Assist-to-Turnover Ratio has also slipped from 2.24:1 last year to 1.89:1 this year.

How bad is that?

Player as a Soph	Assists:Turnovers
Felton	2.09
Lawson	2.36
Drew	1.83
Marshall	3.48
Paige	1.96
Berry	2.44
Love	1.24
Davis	1.92
Cadeau	1.89

Last year he had Armando, Harrison and Cormac for targets. Pretty good hands. Certainly better hands than our current font line. And yet, we play a lot of 3 and 4-guard lineups. And those guys have good hands, too.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

In case anyone is wondering, while RJ has a pretty good 2.34 ratio this season, he's the only one better than Elliot. In fact, Trimble is the only other player on the team with an A:TO better than 1.0. His is 1.39.

If you're Hubert, your choices aren't great.

Might have to cut Hubert some slack on this.

Some slack, but he isn't off the hook. After all, it's the coach's job to develop these guys.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Final thought (maybe) on relative Assist-to-TO Ratio. RJ's ratio was 2.34 last year. It's 2.34 again this year. Elliot's ratio fell, but RJ's didn't. So while the loss of Armando, Ingram and Ryan doubtless makes it harder, it can't be the whole reason.

 

[GAtarheel79]

In case anyone is wondering, while RJ has a pretty good 2.34 ratio this season, he's the only one better than Elliot. In fact, Trimble is the only other player on the team with an A:TO better than 1.0. His is 1.39.

If you're Hubert, your choices aren't great.

Might have to cut Hubert some slack on this.

Some slack, but he isn't off the hook. After all, it's the coach's job to develop these guys.

He also played a key role in their recruitment, even under Roy. However, I'm still pulling for them every game and for Hubert and his staff to improve their in-game decisions and long-term player options for the future.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

He also played a key role in their recruitment, even under Roy. However, I'm still pulling for them every game and for Hubert and his staff to improve their in-game decisions and long-term player options for the future.

Definitely. They're my team.

It's like mothers. We may be critical, but nobody else is allowed.

 

[DSouthr]

In case anyone is wondering, while RJ has a pretty good 2.34 ratio this season, he's the only one better than Elliot. In fact, Trimble is the only other player on the team with an A:TO better than 1.0. His is 1.39.

If you're Hubert, your choices aren't great.

Might have to cut Hubert some slack on this.

Some slack, but he isn't off the hook. After all, it's the coach's job to develop these guys.

I see Cadeau differently than most seem to, his athleticism is unquestionable. I would call him a Tesla of point guards, maybe genius in that he seems to be able to process things n his mind faster than anyone else. And you may say well that should have him playing better than any one else, not really. Being able to see things on the court before they really open up is an amazing ability b ut being 1 step ahead of everyone else is as bad as being a step behind everyone else, means you struggle to stay in sync with everyone else. It is like a QB that throws to a spot rather than to a WR, it only works out well if that WR goes to the correct exact spot, if he doesn't the whole thing looks like a clown show.

All genius seems a bit crazy to most folks, Cadeau seems to move between amazing displays of ability to absolute WTF moments and then the lack of maturity shows itself, he will do something so bone headed to defy logic. It is like spinning an old 45 record at 78 rather than 45. It sounds horrible, it is like The Chipmunks singing Stairway to Heaven and you thinking, worst song I ever heard? In his head the kid is feeling I didn't do anything wrong, the other guys didn't do what he was supposed to not realizing that Lubin is actually NOT Sean May. he doesn't understand why everyone doers not see what he does & the whole thing falls apart.

 

[chickenhunter]

North Carolina legend and 2005 Bob Cousy Award winner Raymond Felton shared his thoughts on the state of the UNC basketball roster following the Tar Heels' 87-70 loss at Duke on Saturday. Felton pointed to deficiencies in the team's frontcourt as a reason for UNC's disappointing 13-10 start to the season and also criticized the play of point guard Elliot Cadeau on a recent podcast appearance.

"We need two bigs. We need a point guard, too," Felton said following the Duke game, via Run Your Race. "I like the kid (Cadeau) as a kid. He's a good kid. We need a point guard. He's got a lot to learn, shall I say. A lot of the decisions he makes going to the basket. He plays a lot of bully ball, but he's not a bully. He tries to go to the basket and run people over."

Cadeau scored eight points on 3-of-10 shooting against Duke and committed a team-high eight turnovers. The sophomore point guard leads the ACC with 73 turnovers in 23 games this season (3.2 avg.), eclipsing his turnover total from last season at 67 in 37 games (1.8 avg.). He committed five of UNC's first nine turnovers against Duke.


"Some of the passes he makes in the winning times of the game [are questionable]," Felton said of Cadeau. "Let's go back a game. The bounce pass he made against Pitt when we were up two with two minutes left in the game. We got the ball. We got in position. You don't make that bounce pass to that big when he's running through traffic. That's not Sean May, I'm sorry. Sean May had some of the best hands of any big I ever played with. I could have made that pass to Sean May, and he would've caught it. I knew that as a point guard. He's been playing with these bigs all year. He knows his players. For him to make that pass in crunch time is absurd to me. I'm not saying he's the reason we are losing. We are losing for a lot of reasons. We need to get a lot in the transfer portal."

North Carolina legend and 2005 Bob Cousy Award winner Raymond Felton shared his thoughts on the state of the UNC basketball roster following the Tar Heels' 87-70 loss at Duke on Saturday. Felton pointed to deficiencies in the team's frontcourt as a reason for UNC's disappointing 13-10 start to the season and also criticized the play of point guard Elliot Cadeau on a recent podcast appearance.

"We need two bigs. We need a point guard, too," Felton said following the Duke game, via Run Your Race. "I like the kid (Cadeau) as a kid. He's a good kid. We need a point guard. He's got a lot to learn, shall I say. A lot of the decisions he makes going to the basket. He plays a lot of bully ball, but he's not a bully. He tries to go to the basket and run people over."

Cadeau scored eight points on 3-of-10 shooting against Duke and committed a team-high eight turnovers. The sophomore point guard leads the ACC with 73 turnovers in 23 games this season (3.2 avg.), eclipsing his turnover total from last season at 67 in 37 games (1.8 avg.). He committed five of UNC's first nine turnovers against Duke.


"Some of the passes he makes in the winning times of the game [are questionable]," Felton said of Cadeau. "Let's go back a game. The bounce pass he made against Pitt when we were up two with two minutes left in the game. We got the ball. We got in position. You don't make that bounce pass to that big when he's running through traffic. That's not Sean May, I'm sorry. Sean May had some of the best hands of any big I ever played with. I could have made that pass to Sean May, and he would've caught it. I knew that as a point guard. He's been playing with these bigs all year. He knows his players. For him to make that pass in crunch time is absurd to me. I'm not saying he's the reason we are losing. We are losing for a lot of reasons. We need to get a lot in the transfer portal."

Felton's co-host, 2017 national champion Theo Pinson, also shared disappointment in how the point guard position is being played at UNC this season. Cadeau is on pace to average the highest turnovers for any Tar Heel since Cole Anthony averaged 3.5 as a freshman in the 2019-20 season.

"The point guard position is very pivotal for us, and it's not being played at a high level," Pinson said. "That's just me calling a spade a spade. It's not being played at a high level. Our margin of error is too thin for us to be making those decisions at the end of games. It's not getting played at a high level."

When I coached basketball, one of the key things I would tell my team is to KYP...Know Your Personnel. If you know the players have bad hands, dont try to pass them to ball in traffic. You should know your teammates strengths and weaknesses.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I see Cadeau differently than most seem to, his athleticism is unquestionable. I would call him a Tesla of point guards, maybe genius in that he seems to be able to process things n his mind faster than anyone else. And you may say well that should have him playing better than any one else, not really. Being able to see things on the court before they really open up is an amazing ability b ut being 1 step ahead of everyone else is as bad as being a step behind everyone else, means you struggle to stay in sync with everyone else. It is like a QB that throws to a spot rather than to a WR, it only works out well if that WR goes to the correct exact spot, if he doesn't the whole thing looks like a clown show.

All genius seems a bit crazy to most folks, Cadeau seems to move between amazing displays of ability to absolute WTF moments and then the lack of maturity shows itself, he will do something so bone headed to defy logic. It is like spinning an old 45 record at 78 rather than 45. It sounds horrible, it is like The Chipmunks singing Stairway to Heaven and you thinking, worst song I ever heard? In his head the kid is feeling I didn't do anything wrong, the other guys didn't do what he was supposed to not realizing that Lubin is actually NOT Sean May. he doesn't understand why everyone doers not see what he does & the whole thing falls apart.

You're describing Larry Drew.

 

[bluetoe]

It sounds horrible, it is like The Chipmunks singing Stairway to Heaven and you thinking, worst song I ever heard?

aside from agreeing or not agreeing with any point you're making, I'll be borrowing this to try to make points of my own..

 

[bluetoe]

I don't know basketball as well as most here probably do, and I haven't followed this board enough to know if this has been discussed...but one thing that puzzles and befuddles me is the repeated PG (and other) attack of the basket when the other team knows what we are going to do and easily snuffs it. Is this just a trait of the players or are they being coached this way?

As ignorant of BB strategy as I am, I really think I could devise something more effective. But maybe it's just me.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

When I coached basketball, one of the key things I would tell my team is to KYP...Know Your Personnel. If you know the players have bad hands, dont try to pass them to ball in traffic. You should know your teammates strengths and weaknesses.

The thing is, where does that leave the guy with the ball? If you have too many players you can't pass to, and the coaches won't run plays to get them open for the easy catch, then you're going to end up with a lot of dribbling and east-west movement.

 

[DSouthr]

I don't know basketball as well as most here probably do, and I haven't followed this board enough to know if this has been discussed...but one thing that puzzles and befuddles me is the repeated PG (and other) attack of the basket when the other team knows what we are going to do and easily snuffs it. Is this just a trait of the players or are they being coached this way?

As ignorant of BB strategy as I am, I really think I could devise something more effective. But maybe it's just me.

Rather than my answer that, let me suggest you watch the pod cast from AJ and David Sisk, hits to the heart of what you are asking.

 

[_B5]

This is when you say just because you played at the highest level doesn’t mean you have a great basketball iq.

Now I will be the first to admit that Elliot has made some questionable decisions over the past two months. But we all must admit it’s not like this offense makes it easy for him. He feels like he has to force passes because they’re no easy ways to get buckets in this offense in the half court. There are no back screens, no pindowns, no flare or flat screen, and no crosses. We just run a pick and pop/roll at the top of the key, every damn play with the wrong players.

 

[dtodd4475]

I think what is a glaring difference to me is that not only was Ray a more efficient assist to turnover guy, he was an absolute bucket. Driving and finishing and developed into a 3ball shooter, little bully as he put it.

If you are a minus scorer, you better be Marshall on assist to turnover ratio. Elliot to this point is still a Kendall scoring threat, and a under 2:1 assist to turnover guy.

 

[bluetoe]

Rather than my answer that, let me suggest you watch the pod cast from AJ and David Sisk, hits to the heart of what you are asking.

thanks, I took your advice even though I'm not a podcast sort of fan. But I listened to the entire thing and AJ and Sisk were informative enough that it made me realize I didn't even know as much as the little I thought I did.. And I must have learned something, gauging by how much more depressed I am now.