Roster grades (for now)

[DSouthr]

I get the sense that fans seem a bit down on our roster additions, not sure if it is just a down mood in general for UNC sports or mourning the loss of some from last season. So I wanted to share my letter grade for the roster as well as the individual players at least as it stands now.

Returning guys from last season, including High:

1) Seth A-
2) Lubin B
3) James Brown C+
4) High C
5) Drake A-

Portal additions:

1) Veesar A-
2) Evans B+
3) J Powell B
4) Stevenson B+

Freshmen incoming:

1) Caleb Wilson A-
2) Dixon B+
3) Denis B-

Roster over all B

The over all addition of length has me very pleased, it should eliminate the biggest problem this team faced in nearly every game last season. This isn't really about who is no longer on the team, in college basketball we are used to players leaving. IN the game today it is still going to be about who you have not who you lost. I do think for now this may be our best over all portal since Hubert took over because I see all 4 portal guys at least in the regular rotation, slightly beating out the Ingram/Ryan/JWit/Paxon class. Tanner the new GM, stellar job IMO, very very late start, had to piece together a work group, has not had the time to add his own staff, hit the ground running and still managed to get our work done early, I give him a solid A for his work so far. A+ for me is very hard to give, I reserve it for star power.

How do you see this?

 

[TPFKAPFS]

My only quibbles would be I believe Seth is a solid A and High should be ranked at least on the same level as JB. I believe High will end up this season as a B at least whereas I see JB reaching B status by the end of the year at the earliest! (most likely next season) I know we haven't seen High on the court, but all reports and his last few games certainly show enough for us to be optimistic.

 

[DSouthr]

My only quibbles would be I believe Seth is a solid A and High should be ranked at least on the same level as JB. I believe High will end up this season as a B at least whereas I see JB reaching B status by the end of the year at the earliest! (most likely next season) I know we haven't seen High on the court, but all reports and his last few games certainly show enough for us to be optimistic.

I tried to do this with a conservative slant. I simply saw more of James last season than High, I couldn't put them at the same level of impact. From what I saw of High as a freshman, I felt I had to rate Brown just slightly better, I saw more upside with James Freshman to freshman. Seth needs a more consistent jump shot to move past that A- I gave him. Seth is a consistent jumper, a bit tighter handles, and slightly crisper passing away from A+ for me. I flirted with giving Seth a B+ but I love him as a defender (I also bumped up Drake, JPowell and Jarin for their defense). I almost gave Veesaar a solid A but I wonder how many minutes he can play and how he plays as a starter.

 

[NathanFielder]

Grades relative to what? Relative to last season's UNC team? Relative to the country?

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I don't really disagree at all! I think JB is still adjusting to the growth of his body and still had a little baby deer awkwardness going on! He is aggressive and will be a problem at some point, but next season I still see him as situational. I think High could be starter level by the time we start ACC play but i admit it has been a minute since I saw him on the court. (total speculation) Seth's grade should be divided between O & D. He is A+ on ball and in help. He can impact the game by shutting down a perimeter player and disrupting an O. On offense (B), he has leadership chops, driving/finishing at the rim and a mid-range game. He is an A+ rebounder for his position as well. His outside shot is a work in progress but clearly improving! Total = A. I think the leadership Seth has will be very important next season. This is why I bump him up slightly. In any case, I love how many peeps we now have who are good to potentially great defenders!

 

[Kool1234567]

I get the sense that fans seem a bit down on our roster additions, not sure if it is just a down mood in general for UNC sports or mourning the loss of some from last season. So I wanted to share my letter grade for the roster as well as the individual players at least as it stands now.

Returning guys from last season, including High:

1) Seth A-
2) Lubin B
3) James Brown C+
4) High C
5) Drake A-

Portal additions:

1) Veesar A-
2) Evans B+
3) J Powell B
4) Stevenson B+

Freshmen incoming:

1) Caleb Wilson A-
2) Dixon B+
3) Denis B-

Roster over all B

The over all addition of length has me very pleased, it should eliminate the biggest problem this team faced in nearly every game last season. This isn't really about who is no longer on the team, in college basketball we are used to players leaving. IN the game today it is still going to be about who you have not who you lost. I do think for now this may be our best over all portal since Hubert took over because I see all 4 portal guys at least in the regular rotation, slightly beating out the Ingram/Ryan/JWit/Paxon class. Tanner the new GM, stellar job IMO, very very late start, had to piece together a work group, has not had the time to add his own staff, hit the ground running and still managed to get our work done early, I give him a solid A for his work so far. A+ for me is very hard to give, I reserve it for star power.

How do you see this?

I agree and I give it a solid B so far….

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We were a C team last year. Top 64 (C) but not top 32 (B). Definitely not top 16 (A).

Using @DSouthr's grades - which I take to be prospective - we're starting an A- team

B+ = Evans
A- = Seth
A- = Drake
A- = Wilson
A- = Henri

Then our bench looks like a B team as long as we don't dig too far

B+ = Stevenson
B+ = Dixon
B. = Lubin
B. = JPowell
B- = Denis
C+ = Brown
C. = High

That strikes me as optimistic - by about a half a grade per player - but not overly optimistic. I don't mind going into the season on an up note.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I see all 4 portal guys at least in the regular rotation

Good point.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

slightly beating out the Ingram/Ryan/JWit/Paxon class.

I don't see an Ingram but I hope there is one. Then again, Ingram didn't look like an Ingram until he showed up here.

Time will tell if any of the current portal crop is a Paxson or a Cade.

Based on past experience, at least one of our portal guys will disappoint. Maybe more than one. Then again, maybe the value of a GM and NIL team will be that we actually get what we think we're getting.

My expectations are fairly high for Veesaar and Evans. Less for Stevenson and JPowell. That's partly because we need Veesaar and Evans to be very good.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I don't really disagree at all! I think JB is still adjusting to the growth of his body and still had a little baby deer awkwardness going on! He is aggressive and will be a problem at some point, but next season I still see him as situational. I think High could be starter level by the time we start ACC play but i admit it has been a minute since I saw him on the court. (total speculation) Seth's grade should be divided between O & D. He is A+ on ball and in help. He can impact the game by shutting down a perimeter player and disrupting an O. On offense (B), he has leadership chops, driving/finishing at the rim and a mid-range game. He is an A+ rebounder for his position as well. His outside shot is a work in progress but clearly improving! Total = A. I think the leadership Seth has will be very important next season. This is why I bump him up slightly. In any case, I love how many peeps we now have who are good to potentially great defenders!

My problem with giving Seth anything above B+ is that every year he makes me think "this is the year!" And then . . . . it isn't.

He's a very good defender, but closer to A- imo. Consider that he didn't make the All-ACC Defensive team. Not even top 10 in voting for best defender.

He could be a B+ on offense when he puts it together, but B- may be generous.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Returning guys from last season, including High:

1) Seth A-
2) Lubin B
3) James Brown C+
4) High C
5) Drake A-

Portal additions:

1) Veesar A-
2) Evans B+
3) J Powell B
4) Stevenson B+

Here are my still-optimistic adjustments

Returning guys from last season, including High:

1) Seth B
2) Lubin B-
3) James Brown C
4) High C
5) Drake A

Portal additions:

1) Veesar A-
2) Evans B+
3) J Powell B-
4) Stevenson C+

[The Cs for Brown and High are mainly "courtesy" Cs, since we saw so little of them.]

 

[NathanFielder]

I don't think this team currently has a single A player on it. I think Seth is a B because he has a lot of offensive limitations and it remains to be seen if he can be a top 3 option on a serious team. I think Evans is a B- player that can trend up because of his valuable 3PT skillset. I don't think Veesaar is a 30 MPG player so can't rate him an A but a solid B with upside.

Everyone else is in the C, C+, B- range right now. Which is an upgrade because Cade Tyson was an F and Jalen Washington was either a D- or D+ depending how generous your curve is.

I have no idea about High or Brown. Don't really have an opinion on either. Wouldn't shock me if they're zeroes. Wouldn't shock me if they're borderline rotational guys. Don't know enough about the freshman guards. Hubert's track record is a bit murky when it comes to 4* guards. I think Caleb Wilson has excellent tools for a PF and he will have a skill advantage at that position most games. But gotta see it before I believe it with freshman and hype.

This isn't saying UNC will be bad (or good). This team on paper fits a lot better with one another. And realistically, they massively upgraded at the 4 and 5. Withers was probably a C+ player. Lubin is probably a C+ player. Washington was in the D range. So you go from that to your 2 starters being much better. And Stevenson and potentially Lubin are major major major upgrades over Washington. So the collection of added parts is better.

But I think this team is missing an A caliber player. It needs a #1 option IMO. And I don't think Hubert is a coach that will get a bunch of B players to play so flawlessly together that the team turns into a beast despite no legitimate #1.

 

[dtodd4475]

Here are my still-optimistic adjustments

Returning guys from last season, including High:

1) Seth B
2) Lubin B-
3) James Brown C
4) High C
5) Drake B+

Portal additions:

1) Veesar B+
2) Evans B
3) J Powell B-
4) Stevenson C+

[The Cs for Brown and High are mainly "courtesy" Cs, since we saw so little of them.]

Returners
Seth B-
Lubin C
Brown D
High D-
Drake A-

Portal
Vassar B+
Evans B-
J. Powell C
Stevenson B

The freshmen get NG's for now, I would hope.
Wilson A-
Dixon B
Denis C+

 

[KeeLo]

Next time instead of grades, everyone should respond to what they think the players' EA Sports / 2K rating should be but it should be decided what the curve is. Like, I see people giving Seth an A... But in 2K, there's no way he'd get a 90 overall rating, right?

 

[gary-7]

I get the sense that fans seem a bit down on our roster additions, not sure if it is just a down mood in general for UNC sports or mourning the loss of some from last season. So I wanted to share my letter grade for the roster as well as the individual players at least as it stands now.

Returning guys from last season, including High:

1) Seth A-
2) Lubin B
3) James Brown C+
4) High C
5) Drake A-

Portal additions:

1) Veesar A-
2) Evans B+
3) J Powell B
4) Stevenson B+

Freshmen incoming:

1) Caleb Wilson A-
2) Dixon B+
3) Denis B-

Roster over all B

The over all addition of length has me very pleased, it should eliminate the biggest problem this team faced in nearly every game last season. This isn't really about who is no longer on the team, in college basketball we are used to players leaving. IN the game today it is still going to be about who you have not who you lost. I do think for now this may be our best over all portal since Hubert took over because I see all 4 portal guys at least in the regular rotation, slightly beating out the Ingram/Ryan/JWit/Paxon class. Tanner the new GM, stellar job IMO, very very late start, had to piece together a work group, has not had the time to add his own staff, hit the ground running and still managed to get our work done early, I give him a solid A for his work so far. A+ for me is very hard to give, I reserve it for star power.

How do you see this?

Significant undervaluation of High
A bit (shall we say) generous to Seth and the Portal additions.

 

[dtodd4475]

Significant undervaluation of High
A bit (shall we say) generous to Seth and the Portal additions.

Would love to see it with High. He was an active, but spastic energy guy in his freshman campaign. A year away is not ideal for a project guy, with significant upside. He's athletic with a good motor, but raw in my opinion, and out of control at times. Would of liked him to have been involved in the day to day last year.

 

[gary-7]

Would love to see it with High. He was an active, but spastic energy guy in his freshman campaign. A year away is not ideal for a project guy, with significant upside. He's athletic with a good motor, but raw in my opinion, and out of control at times. Would of liked him to have been involved in the day to day last year.

Based on what I've been consistently told by close sources, he has kept up his regimen, and I mean, in these "free agent" days who wouldn't?

 

[dtodd4475]

Based on what I've been consistently told by close sources, he has kept up his regimen, and I mean, in these "free agent" days who wouldn't?

Would of loved some structured game development throughout the season, in practice as well. He is a wild card for me. Always nice to be dealt that 9 of diamonds if it's much more.

 

[gary-7]

Would of loved some structured game development throughout the season, in practice as well. He is a wild card for me. Always nice to be dealt that 9 of diamonds if it's much more.

Well, I will tell ya this much with no doubt: If the non-basketball issues hadn't come up, Zayden would have made a very positive impact on last season's team.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Based on what I've been consistently told by close sources, he has kept up his regimen, and I mean, in these "free agent" days who wouldn't?

Well, I will tell ya this much with no doubt: If the non-basketball issues hadn't come up, Zayden would have made a very positive impact on last season's team.

Great to hear. Thanks.

Some YouTuber I was watching the other day made it sound practically set in stone that he will be on the team. Is that what you hear?

 

[gary-7]

Great to hear. Thanks.

Some YouTuber I was watching the other day made it sound practically set in stone that he will be on the team. Is that what you hear?

He was watching and waiting, and mostly wants a chance to get on the court again.

 

[DSouthr]

Would love to see it with High. He was an active, but spastic energy guy in his freshman campaign. A year away is not ideal for a project guy, with significant upside. He's athletic with a good motor, but raw in my opinion, and out of control at times. Would of liked him to have been involved in the day to day last year.

High is a mystery for me, I will tell you what I know. High was dismissed from the school, not just the team but the school. Why doesn't really matter at this point. His being dismissed from the school means he could not use any of UNC's facilities, just as in the case of any non-student, where he went and what he did after being dismissed I don't know, have heard second hand info but you know how that kind of thing goes. I heard the whole summer before he was dismissed how he had improved, not long ago I heard similar things about Justin McCoy and you know how that worked out, I take reports like that with a grain of salt.

Then High is allowed to re-enroll at UNC and does, lot of guys would not give a single thought to going back to the school that just dismissed them, the embarrass alone had to be really hard to handle, to come back to that school says very loud that I simply really want to be here more than any other place, I respect that.

Finally, I know that High had a season ending interview with Hubert as did every member of last season's team, in fact High's was the last interview that Hubert had with his players. That screams that High is NOW back on this team and in good standing. Any questions of maybe High was just using the UNC facilities to work out while deciding what program he was going to play for went out the window when the portal opened and he did not enter it and as of today closed again, without his name being in it. Nothing ground breaking in there, stuff I assume you and everyone already knows.

Last I saw the kid play he played with a nice chip on his shoulders but badly needed to add weight. He seemed to really believe in his jump shot but I didn't see it fall much. But that was a little over a year ago, I don't know how much if any weight he has added to that frame, don't know what skills he has worked on and improved. So when I say I have him as a C- to James Brown's C it is mostly due to the fact that I have seen James Brown more recently play and frankly, liked what I saw from James more than what I saw from High season before last. Body to body it looks to me like James may have a body that can add weight easier than High. I am going to be cautious when it comes to James and High, I saw Jalen come in 2 seasons in a row at the same weight when he badly needed to add weight yet I heard multiple reports of how hard Jalen was working in the weight room.

 

[Bubspub88]

Returning players (excluding Drake and Lubin) B-
Freshmen B
Grad/portal out (again excluding Drake and Lubin) B+
Portal incoming B+

While I see some desperate size need addressed in portal I do not see the offensive production from RJ and Ian being replaced. To me the roster still does not seem to mesh well and that is becoming an alarming trend with Hubert.

I look at next year and see a solid group of 3, 4 or 5 options but I do not see that lead dog who I want with the ball in his hands to do something when we are down 1 with 15 seconds left.

Maybe if I had seen teams on the court under Hubert who consistently played harder than the opposition and would run through a wall for the team I'd feel better. I am just not sure I trust the staff to adjust their game plans and maximize the talent on the roster.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

i agree with above. right now this is shaping up to be a taller, middle of the road team as compared to last years smaller, middle of the road team. hopefully espn opens up a spot on game day for hubert.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

i agree with above. right now this is shaping up to be a taller, middle of the road team as compared to last years smaller, middle of the road team. hopefully espn opens up a spot on game day for hubert.

It could go either way we’re built more like an SEC team now but unless they add a 15 plus scorer we may just be at a 22-10 level

 

[Oak ridger]

It could go either way we’re built more like an SEC team now but unless they add a 15 plus scorer we may just be at a 22-10 level

And waiting on the selection show to see if UNC is in the NCAA field of 68.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

And waiting on the selection show to see if UNC is in the NCAA field of 68.

correct. new faces. same result.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

How long do we wait for Drake and Lubin to make up their minds?

I want them both back, so I agree with waiting. But I worry we'll wait too long and will end up looking at a pretty bare cupboard.

Without them, we still have a nice 10-man team . . . but little tolerance for slow-developing freshman (or sophomores), under-performing transfers, or injuries.

Evans - Dixon
Trimble - Denis
Stevenson - JPowell
Wilson - High - (Stevenson)
Veesaar - Brown - (High)

With Drake and Lubin back - or comparable replacements - we look much better.

With Drake and Lubin in Limbo, we really only know what we have with 1 player: Seth.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

correct. new faces. same result.

If Drake and Lubin stay, a better result is a reasonable expectation.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

From what I can tell, Evans is a better and more willing outside shooter than Elliot. In addition to getting a few more points from that position, how does that help other players?

JPowell is supposed to be a decent outside shooter. Seth has had stretches of shooting well from deep. How about Dixon? If Evans shoots well, does that help them . . . and spacing and whatever?

 

[DSouthr]

How long do we wait for Drake and Lubin to make up their minds?

I want them both back, so I agree with waiting. But I worry we'll wait too long and will end up looking at a pretty bare cupboard.

Without them, we still have a nice 10-man team . . . but little tolerance for slow-developing freshman (or sophomores), under-performing transfers, or injuries.

Evans - Dixon
Trimble - Denis
Stevenson - JPowell
Wilson - High - (Stevenson)
Veesaar - Brown - (High)

With Drake and Lubin back - or comparable replacements - we look much better.

With Drake and Lubin in Limbo, we really only know what we have with 1 player: Seth.

With Lubin, I think UNC needs to make it priority #1 to replace his spot, just to high risk to bet Lubin comes back and then doesn't. I think you go out and snag a center that isn't under sized, that can play a more physical game and not be towered over. That is our 1 top need area that is exposed now. We can absorb the loss of Drake but needing to rely on James Brown for 15-20mins in some games scares me.

I consider now both Drake and Lubin gone so I pool their NIL targeted $$$ and get me a center that I feel good about for 15-20mins a game that can step up for more if Veesaar gets hurt and can't play. For Drake like $$$ I should be able to snag a solid one.

Concerning Drake, while he could pull out of the draft as I write this, I think he stays in the draft. 2 reasons, first as we speak there are guys dropping out of the draft and electing to stay in the "college" game and each time one does that was considered to be picked before Drake, Drakes draft position improves.

Second, best case Drake was looked at as a late first round pick. The only 2 considerations make much difference between a late first round spot and a early second round spot is that the first round picks all get guaranteed contracts. But over the last few years a lot of 2nd round picks have been able to get guaranteed contracts as well, clearly a early 2nd round guy is more likely to get a guaranteed deal than a mid to late 2nd round pick. But the other factor is a early second round guy is usually drafted by a team that needs help, much harder to make the roster for a team that is picking late first round. Here is a secret for ya, Drake already knows which way he is leaning, he may be holding his announcement to make double or triple sure but he knows. AND you would not see UNC keeping an eye on Stojack if they felt Drake was coming back, in other words they know to.

 

[NathanFielder]

How long do we wait for Drake and Lubin to make up their minds?

I want them both back, so I agree with waiting. But I worry we'll wait too long and will end up looking at a pretty bare cupboard.

Without them, we still have a nice 10-man team . . . but little tolerance for slow-developing freshman (or sophomores), under-performing transfers, or injuries.

Evans - Dixon
Trimble - Denis
Stevenson - JPowell
Wilson - High - (Stevenson)
Veesaar - Brown - (High)

With Drake and Lubin back - or comparable replacements - we look much better.

With Drake and Lubin in Limbo, we really only know what we have with 1 player: Seth.

It's only a nice 10 man rotation if the guys we know reasonably very little about today (Denis, Dixon, High, and Brown) are servicable players who excel in their roles next season.

That 10 man rotation lacks a legitimate go-to option and IMO lacks a second scoring option too.

I think the team will be better next season. The difference between Withers/Washington being the day 1 starters to Caleb Wilson/Henri Veesaar is a significant upgrade and that will make them better. But there is a pretty limited ceiling to a team that doesn't have a legitimate number one option. And last year's team missed a legitimate #2 option. They were full of 4th and 5th option scorers.

The whole balance thing is a bit of a myth to me. McCants and May were both #1 options that happened to play on the same team. Lawson/Ellington/Hansbrough were the same their JR seasons. Paige/Brice Johnson were both #1 options. Jackson/Berry were #1 options in 2017.

I love balance, but I love balance when you have to balance three #1 scoring options, lol. Not three #4 scoring options. Not saying next year's team has that, but I think it's lacking in a legit #1.

 

[DSouthr]

It's only a nice 10 man rotation if the guys we know reasonably very little about today (Denis, Dixon, High, and Brown) are servicable players who excel in their roles next season.

That 10 man rotation lacks a legitimate go-to option and IMO lacks a second scoring option too.

I think the team will be better next season. The difference between Withers/Washington being the day 1 starters to Caleb Wilson/Henri Veesaar is a significant upgrade and that will make them better. But there is a pretty limited ceiling to a team that doesn't have a legitimate number one option. And last year's team missed a legitimate #2 option. They were full of 4th and 5th option scorers.

The whole balance thing is a bit of a myth to me. McCants and May were both #1 options that happened to play on the same team. Lawson/Ellington/Hansbrough were the same their JR seasons. Paige/Brice Johnson were both #1 options. Jackson/Berry were #1 options in 2017.

I love balance, but I love balance when you have to balance three #1 scoring options, lol. Not three #4 scoring options. Not saying next year's team has that, but I think it's lacking in a legit #1.

LOL, trying to be nice I looked hard for something in this post I could maybe agree with, couldn't find it...Honestly, I just could not disagree more, it is as if I am arguing with a guy that looks at this like some kind of video game and it just doesn't work in real life.

 

[heels05champs]

No way should Carolina wait any for Lubin. He isn’t a player that should hold that type of leverage. I would have started the replacement efforts the second he tried to grab more money by entering the portal.

 

[Kool1234567]

 

[Bubspub88]

I would be shocked if Drake returns, and would not hold Lubin's spot. Take their NIL packages and find a big who is willing to play 15 minutes a game in a back up role and look to get a sniper to plug in for offense at the 3 spot. I am hoping that either the new Powell or the freshman can be productive at the 3 (I don't think Stevenson is the answer for extended minutes) but I would still like a guy who can come in hit some 3's.

I do not see that alpha scorer on the roster and do not trust the staff to dump the isolation crap and play team basketball. Next year's roster is an upgrade in they should not be bullied on the glass but I don't think they have replaced the offense they are losing.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

Powell to draft

 

[DSouthr]

Powell to draft

Yep, Powell is staying in the draft now official.

I would be shocked if Drake returns, and would not hold Lubin's spot. Take their NIL packages and find a big who is willing to play 15 minutes a game in a back up role and look to get a sniper to plug in for offense at the 3 spot. I am hoping that either the new Powell or the freshman can be productive at the 3 (I don't think Stevenson is the answer for extended minutes) but I would still like a guy who can come in hit some 3's.

I do not see that alpha scorer on the roster and do not trust the staff to dump the isolation crap and play team basketball. Next year's roster is an upgrade in they should not be bullied on the glass but I don't think they have replaced the offense they are losing.

Exactly what I have said in a couple different threads today, take the Drake $$$ and the Lubin $$$ and go get a broad shoulders physical center in that 7ft range. If you recall, I said several times before the portal opened, I wanted us to get 2 centers, not just 1, said this several times before Jalen entered the portal because we were consistently over matched at the center position. Loved Lubin but he was simply towered over. He late season got some juice going with Cadeau but Cadeau plays for Michigan now.

Lubin pulled a power play plain and simple, you can't bow to that or the rest of your roster is going to do the same thing if you are not careful.

 

[Hoops244]

I’m not sure how anyone can objectively look at our potential roster and says it’s likely better. To me it’s a bubble team at best.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

I’m not sure how anyone can objectively look at our potential roster and says it’s likely better. To me it’s a bubble team at best.

It is a bubble team but there is money available and roster spots so it’s not complete