Roy & Timeouts

[tmatheny]

I posted this in a thread on the premium board but I'd like to hear honest opinions from those that have played and/or coached.

When I'm watching as a fan I am begging Roy to call a timeout during times like today. However, when I get into my shoes of former coach as well as a former player I'm glad he didn't call one today as well as numerous other times in which he hasn't.

If you have good leadership on the court it's best to keep playing and let your leaders step up (esp. on the road). This builds a team led by players, it's a great challenge for them and if you can steer the ship back it prevents more momentum for the other team. Just as many times as not if not more a timeout by the road team leads to the stands and the home team getting even more fueled up.

I know it doesn't work every time but I'll ok with it. We finished the end of the first on a run and back within 2 without feeling State more energy. Energy was going to be their best asset today. So I liked not feeding it. In many ways, he is controlling momentum by trusting his sr pg to calm things down and not stop play to let State get more hyped.

Thoughts?

 

[Sk1310]

Someone asked Roy today after the game why he didn't call a timeout during the 19-0 run. He said " "I am not going to bail you out. You’ve dug this daggum hole, so play."

I have always liked that he lets them play through. I think it really helps come tourney time or on the road facing adversity.

 

[uncfan in ky]

I yell & complain about it also. Then I remember Roy is in the HOF, won 3 titles & learned the game from the greatest coach ever, so I just shut up & let Roy do his thing.

 

[TarHeelMark]

As much as we hate it as fans, I do like Roy’s logic. He’s teaching long term lessons, even if it means taking an occasional loss along the way. More often than not, the lessons learned will pay off.

 

[toophly1124]

Gminski commented on that during the game ..during the 19-0 he said Roy’s saying “You’ve got yourselves into this ..sooo get yourselves out of it.”.

As frustrating as it can be .. I love it..

 

[strummingram]

A timeout is like a white flag!

"You win! STOP THE GAME FOR A WHILE!"

 

[Carolina Way]

Yeah i whine and complain but in that 19-0 run I think we missed 6 or 7 point blank shots.

I mean what else can Roy say other than “make them”?

 

[MWHeels]

I trust Roy. He's not perfect, but he's brought a tremendous amount of success to this program, which is all fans can ask for from a head coach.

 

[Archer2]

I yell & complain about it also. Then I remember Roy is in the HOF, won 3 titles & learned the game from the greatest coach ever, so I just shut up & let Roy do his thing.

Guilty as charged.

As much as we hate it as fans, I do like Roy’s logic. He’s teaching long term lessons, even if it means taking an occasional loss along the way. More often than not, the lessons learned will pay off.

Indeed. I was screaming for a TO. WTF do I know?!

 

[Heels5150]

Who am I to question Roy? I do think Teams from year to year are so different in character. Meaning this team is not nearly as mature as the last couple of years with seven freshmen and Luke’s roll has changed dramatically. So this is Luks first year as a counted on producer, Cam is a veteran but not with the Carolina chemistry and his injury pushing him back to gel with our current players. Kenny Williams lost the last half of his sophomore year so he is in a new role as well. 95% I believe in coach Roy making his team push through. However, with this young team and elevated expectations on new players and a away game in conference. A 19-0 run. I would have tried to stop the bleeding.

 

[ChiShankCity]

It depends IMO.

I don't think this current team requires it that often. Most of the guys know what Roy is thinking, most of the guys have been through every kind of scenario imaginable so if the seniors get shook, that's more on them. For this group, I feel timeouts are more useful if players are getting tired and things like that.

However, if it's the 11:00 mark and we're 3+ minutes away from a media TO and Roy put out a lineup of Seventh, Platek, Robinson, Brooks and Manley... and that 5 is getting pasted and is in the middle of allowing a 12-0 run... Then I think it's perfectly fair to say Roy was wrong if he didn't call a timeout to at least get better guys back in the game.

But it's a really layered question... If we're at home, probably don't need a timeout... If we're playing at Virginia where it's probably only going to be a 60 possession game so each possession is really valuable... I would like timeouts there to at least make sure everyone is on the same page on a given possession.

The other thing though is this group of players might be so used to Roy not calling timeouts that calling one might negatively impact them more... It's like "coach never calls a timeout, we might be in trouble" or something like that.

I personally think timeouts are really valuable so I'd prefer them being used, but that might be more of an NBA thing.

 

[BillyL]

Every time somebody asks about Roy and timeouts, I get a flashback to the Kansas NCAA-T game where we were down 40-12 . .

Oh Lordy . .

 

[TarHeelMark]

Every time somebody asks about Roy and timeouts, I get a flashback to the Kansas NCAA-T game where we were down 40-12 . .

Oh Lordy . .

But don’t forget, we came within a Danny 3 from tying it back up (before we ran out of gas).

 

[BillyL]

But don’t forget, we came within a Danny 3 from tying it back up (before we ran out of gas).

I will never forget that game, Mark . . that 3 went around the rim before falling out.

 

[midline]

I get anxious when things start to go sideways, just like we a do. Like when Roy refuses to burn a timeout during a 0-19 run. Like when he was trying to give many of the starters a rest with a bunch of bench players on the court who were so out of sync that I was just hoping they could get a shot up without bumping into each other and turning it over again. But then I remind myself that Roy has won a ton of ball games, came back to Chapel Hill and saved the program, then had given the program three national championships. Based on that I figure he knows much more about when to use his timeouts than any of us on this forum

 

[iwish]

This much I can promise you - it just doesn’t matter what any of us think. Even if very single person disagreed with Roy, guess what? He’ll continue calling the games the same way.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Roy AND his players know what they are suppose to do, both have explained this numerous times. Freshman PG and maybe just maybe Roy would call one, but not with Senior leadership like he has with Berry and Theo.

 

[dtodd4475]

Someone asked Roy today after the game why he didn't call a timeout during the 19-0 run. He said " "I am not going to bail you out. You’ve dug this daggum hole, so play."

I have always liked that he lets them play through. I think it really helps come tourney time or on the road facing adversity.

He is stubborn as a mule, but YOU KNOW WHAT IS EXPECTED!!! I may not agree always, but I don't matter. Roy is consistent, you calm down and work out of this self made adversity. I'm not stopping it for you.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Every time somebody asks about Roy and timeouts, I get a flashback to the Kansas NCAA-T game where we were down 40-12 . .

Oh Lordy . .

If he isn't going to burn one then in that game he damn sure isn't going to call one in a regular season game against state!

 

[gary-7]

I posted this in a thread on the premium board but I'd like to hear honest opinions from those that have played and/or coached.

When I'm watching as a fan I am begging Roy to call a timeout during times like today. However, when I get into my shoes of former coach as well as a former player I'm glad he didn't call one today as well as numerous other times in which he hasn't.

If you have good leadership on the court it's best to keep playing and let your leaders step up (esp. on the road). This builds a team led by players, it's a great challenge for them and if you can steer the ship back it prevents more momentum for the other team. Just as many times as not if not more a timeout by the road team leads to the stands and the home team getting even more fueled up.

I know it doesn't work every time but I'll ok with it. We finished the end of the first on a run and back within 2 without feeling State more energy. Energy was going to be their best asset today. So I liked not feeding it. In many ways, he is controlling momentum by trusting his sr pg to calm things down and not stop play to let State get more hyped.

Thoughts?

I was a time-out saver but even I was hoping he would call the use-or-lose TO when we got down in the first half, but... We came back and cut it to 2. And K's TO Thursday didn't even out a dent in our run, so there's no perfect answer

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Here’s my thoughts on the timeout situation. I’m fine with letting your starters play through a run in the 10-12 point range as long as they are competing and it may be something where shots just aren’t falling right then. However, days like today when we have a terrible non starter lineup on the floor and we are stuck in a 19-0 run, that simply can’t happen. You have to break up the run somewhere in the middle and at least get your top guys back in the game. We were very lucky today to overcome that run but we wouldn’t be able to survive that against a top tier team.

Regardless of situation, there’s ZERO excuse in my opinion not to use the use it or lose it time out in the first half if things are going south.

 

[dtodd4475]

Here’s my thoughts on the timeout situation. I’m fine with letting your starters play through a run in the 10-12 point range as long as they are competing and it may be something where shots just aren’t falling right then. However, days like today when we have a terrible non starter lineup on the floor and we are stuck in a 19-0 run, that simply can’t happen. You have to break up the run somewhere in the middle and at least get your top guys back in the game. We were very lucky today to overcome that run but we wouldn’t be able to survive that against a top tier team.

Regardless of situation, there’s ZERO excuse in my opinion not to use the use it or lose it time out in the first half if things are going south.

Especially late in the first half when it is gone at halftime anyway as you stated. He has his reasons, and is more steadfast with that belief then I am with just about anything...lol

 

[strummingram]

The ONLY time I consider as time out is at the very end of the game, when the final score decides the game and it might be a good idea to have a set play. But, there's just as much to support a "let it ride" strategy then, too.

After being conditioned to not have a TO called when a team is on a run, I'm more aware of how embarrassing it looks when a team does call a time out. It is a signal of "Okay! We're getting our asses royally kicked! We surrender! Let's stop before we get totally run out of the gym."

I have come to prefer the Roy system. Dig your way out of it. Calling a TO to remind your team they're playing like shit seems needless to me now!

 

[TarHeelMark]

Calling a timeout during those big runs is a crutch for coaches that don’t have confidence in their team to pull themselves out of the crap they’ve gotten into. Roy believes in his guys and fortunately they were able to persevere today. Plus, he’s stubborn as hell too.

 

[imajericho]

As soon as we got the lead to 10. Keats immediately called timeout and the momentum swung as the 19-0 run immediately happened after.

At some point, you need to use the timeout. This cost us that game versus Kansas in the tournament the year they got up like 24 points in the 1st half.

 

[uncboy10]

It's fine to let them learn during the regular season, but I hope he calls a timeout long before a run gets to 19 points come tourney times

 

[HermanT]

Someone asked Roy today after the game why he didn't call a timeout during the 19-0 run. He said " "I am not going to bail you out. You’ve dug this daggum hole, so play."

I have always liked that he lets them play through. I think it really helps come tourney time or on the road facing adversity.

Coach Williams DID NOT call a TO when ook looked as if they may runaway from the Heels. LOVED IT!

 

[HermanT]

Yeah i whine and complain but in that 19-0 run I think we missed 6 or 7 point blank shots.

I mean what else can Roy say other than “make them”?

Your response is similar to what the late Coach Smith said when he took ALOT of questions about his reluctance to call a TO to stop a run. I remember reading something of him answering, "What do I say to them?"

 

[itstartedwithmj]

Calling a timeout would mean Roy is panicking. He doesn't. In my years as a fan, I've seen championships lost, because a team didn't have a timeout to use. We have benefited greatly from a team calling a TO that they didn't have. Roy prepares his players for this in the regular season. Other coaches who need to call time outs probably need to do more coaching in practice. When it comes to the postseason, our players know how to deal with the situation without calling TOs. Perhaps, he's learned this from the times we've benefited from it in the post season.

It baffles me that people are still complaining about him not calling at TO, after all these years. Whether you agree with it or not, it's not going to happen. For those who continue to complain about it, do us all a favor & stop whining about it. Again, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Roy has proven his system works. What fans think is irrelevant.

 

[tmatheny]

Again, I think the difference in Keatts calling the TO and Roy not is leadership and confidence. Keatts doesn't have the type of players with experience to let them work it out as does Roy. In addition, Keatts is at home so his TO helped change the energy. A TO by Roy would have brought that building down

 

[GoNtheDistance]

As soon as we got the lead to 10. Keats immediately called timeout and the momentum swung as the 19-0 run immediately happened after.

At some point, you need to use the timeout. This cost us that game versus Kansas in the tournament the year they got up like 24 points in the 1st half.

That game against Kansas got to 40-12 to start. To even type that score differential is mind blowing to think we never used timeouts. We almost came back but ran out of gas in that one.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

And a few of you need to relax and not try and derail the thread. Just because we have opinions on our lack of time out usage doesn’t mean we don’t believe in Roy as a coach or even think we could do it better because that’s not the case. This is a message board to express opinions and talk objectively about all things UNC.

 

[Grayhead]

I was a time-out saver but even I was hoping he would call the use-or-lose TO when we got down in the first half, but... We came back and cut it to 2. And K's TO Thursday didn't even out a dent in our run, so there's no perfect answer

It didn't work that time. But in times past it did.

I just wish he would use one when he sees a big run about to happen.

I think Dean keep most of his for late game situations

I think Roy keeps them and adds them to his 401k each month

 

[gary-7]

It didn't work that time. But in times past it did.

I just wish he would use one when he sees a big run about to happen.

I think Dean keep most of his for late game situations

I think Roy keeps them and adds them to his 401k each month

In Deans day you had 5 for whenever, and more often than not he saved them. The current use or lose makes one expendable, but Roy likes to condition his guys to play thru bad stretches. He'd be more likely to have used one in March.

 

[UNC-75]

I wish he had called a timeout after Paige's shot in the final 2 years ago.
Other than that I trust in Roy even though I am as guilty as all the rest of us in yelling at the tv.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

It's fine to let them learn during the regular season, but I hope he calls a timeout long before a run gets to 19 points come tourney times

Exactly. He can throw away a regular season game or two in order to have a teaching moment, but for crying out loud use the TO before it gets to a 19-0 run in tournament games.

 

[HeelzLover]

We have benefited greatly from a team calling a TO that they didn't have.

Good times. Sorry Fab Five

 

[gary-7]

Good times. Sorry Fab Five

Even though that TO didn't really matter, that was still funny.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

The ONLY time I consider as time out is at the very end of the game, when the final score decides the game and it might be a good idea to have a set play. But, there's just as much to support a "let it ride" strategy then, too.

After being conditioned to not have a TO called when a team is on a run, I'm more aware of how embarrassing it looks when a team does call a time out. It is a signal of "Okay! We're getting our asses royally kicked! We surrender! Let's stop before we get totally run out of the gym."

I have come to prefer the Roy system. Dig your way out of it. Calling a TO to remind your team they're playing like shit seems needless to me now!

Well, to play Devil's advocate (pun kinda intended), Coach K is the winningest coach of all time and he calls a timeout the second his team goes up against a 7-0 run or so. He does it frequently, including in the beginning of the second half on Thursday night.

 

[gobblercalls]

Well, to play Devil's advocate (pun kinda intended), Coach K is the winningest coach of all time and he calls a timeout the second his team goes up against a 7-0 run or so. He does it frequently, including in the beginning of the second half on Thursday night.

Not to coach though, just to berate and threaten the refs.